Irish Citizen By Descent Moving to Ireland Questions

carol192

Hello,


My name is Carol and I was recently granted Irish Citizenship by Descent and am recorded in the Foreign Births Registry. I am seeking your help with our impending move to Dublin in July this year (2013) as retirees of independent means---myself as an Irish citizen, and my husband as a NON-EAA spouse of an Irish citizen seeking permission to stay in Ireland as my spouse…we have been married many years. We are both in our mid-60's, both US citizens and hold US passports. I hold an Irish passport as well. We have read all the pertinent posts on this site. We visited Ireland twice last year spending a full week in Dublin, our intended destination. We are well informed of the current economic/social/political climate in Ireland.

We have studied numerous Irish government websites and we don't understand :

1) How we can obtain housing without a PPS number which we do not have by virtue of having never lived in Ireland. The government sites say we can, however, supply a proof of tenancy by a lease agreement signed with a landlord. QUESTION: Aren't landlords required by law to obtain a PPS from the tenant before letting? How many landlords are likely to rent to us with only the promise of a PPS? How have others in this situation proceeded?

2) How can we open a bank account in Ireland to transfer all of our savings from US banks (and then closing them) without a local Irish address, and proof of residency? We will transfer our savings and have our US pensions (old age, military, and US Federal Employee retirement) deposited electronically by each agency.

We will not require any Social or Health benefits whatsoever from the Irish State.

How do we resolve these seeming contradictions? Or perhaps you know of someone who has personally done what we plan.

Best regards,

Carol

D3PO

carol192 wrote: »

Hello,


My name is Carol and I was recently granted Irish Citizenship by Descent and am recorded in the Foreign Births Registry. I am seeking your help with our impending move to Dublin in July this year (2013) as retirees of independent means---myself as an Irish citizen, and my husband as a NON-EAA spouse of an Irish citizen seeking permission to stay in Ireland as my spouse…we have been married many years. We are both in our mid-60's, both US citizens and hold US passports. I hold an Irish passport as well. We have read all the pertinent posts on this site. We visited Ireland twice last year spending a full week in Dublin, our intended destination. We are well informed of the current economic/social/political climate in Ireland.

We have studied numerous Irish government websites and we don't understand :

1) How we can obtain housing without a PPS number which we do not have by virtue of having never lived in Ireland. The government sites say we can, however, supply a proof of tenancy by a lease agreement signed with a landlord. QUESTION: Aren't landlords required by law to obtain a PPS from the tenant before letting? How many landlords are likely to rent to us with only the promise of a PPS? How have others in this situation proceeded?

There is no law that you must provide a PPS number to a landlord. So your ok there

2) How can we open a bank account in Ireland to transfer all of our savings from US banks (and then closing them) without a local Irish address, and proof of residency? We will transfer our savings and have our US pensions (old age, military, and US Federal Employee retirement) deposited electronically by each agency.

You can open an Irish bank account once you move here. You dont have to close your US account at the same time so can trasnfer your savings afterwards

We will not require any Social or Health benefits whatsoever from the Irish State.

How do we resolve these seeming contradictions? Or perhaps you know of someone who has personally done what we plan.

Best regards,

Carol

Carol cead mile failte. Ive supplied answered in bold. Your overthinking it a bit you dont need to worry about either

carol192

But, overthinking is my Forte! Many thanks for you reply!

The_Conductor

Thanks D3P0. Carol- its exactly as D3P0 has said- nothing more, nothing less.

Landlords may request PPSNs when registering a tenancy- but its not a legal requirement.

You can have bank accounts in any countries you like- I'd qualify this with you're going to have to be careful of any tax implications.

Best of good luck with your move- and welcome to Boards.ie We have many US members here- often you'll find threads discussing getting things shipped over here (can be silly little things like favourite food items- or larger things such as a car etc)- which may be of interest.

Peregrinus

I'd also add, you don't have to have an Irish address in order to open a bank account with an Irish bank. Talk to your chosen bank, explaining your plans, and they'll be happy to open a bank account for you now, with your US address, which can be updated to your Irish address when you move. They'll be a little reluctant to lend you money, or grant you an overdraft, until you have become resident, but presumably that won't be an issue for you.

cuilteanna

You might find something like this useful
http://groupspaces.com/AWCD/public/pay/shop/

Best of luck with your move, we're desperate to go in the opposite direction!

jmayo

carol192 wrote: »

...
2) How can we open a bank account in Ireland to transfer all of our savings from US banks (and then closing them) without a local Irish address, and proof of residency? We will transfer our savings and have our US pensions (old age, military, and US Federal Employee retirement) deposited electronically by each agency.

We will not require any Social or Health benefits whatsoever from the Irish State.

How do we resolve these seeming contradictions? Or perhaps you know of someone who has personally done what we plan.

Best regards,

Carol

Carol,
firstly I would not transfer all your dollar savings into Euro.
Call me sceptical of the whole euro project if you want.

With some banks you can open dollar accounts and you could just move some of your dollars over into the new account in the new bank.
Of course it would be necessary from a day to day perspective to move some money into euro accounts.
When transferring to euros you can use currency exchange houses (e.g Transfermate) rather than banks to get a better rate.
Also keep an eye on exchange rates and do the bigger transactions when rate in your favour.
It can save or make you a few extra euros.

Are you still going to have to make tax returns to IRS if you leave US bank accounts in place and are you just going to have Irish citizenship ?

Even though you say you will "not require any Social or Health benefits whatsoever from the Irish State.", you will probably need to get health insurance with one of the Irish health insurance providers.

Also check out about medical card for retirees over seventys as it can save money on medication and doctor visits.

RATM

Carol also be aware that Ireland has what is called a Deposit Interest Retention Tax (DIRT for short). So if you leave €200k savings in an Irish account at an interest rate of 4% and it yields €8k in interest then the government will tax that €8k with DIRT at 33%.

I'd be seeking tax advice as to the best way to remit your savings. As the previous poster said right now there is a lot of uncertainty in Europe and about the whole single currency project. Although the problems don't feel as intense as they did during 2009-10 things are still not stable. Personally I'd prefer have a large pot of savings in US$ and then dribble what you need out and convert to euro every 6 months or so.

Also be aware that even though you are retirees after you spend 183 days in a calender year in Ireland or 280 days over 2 years then you will become tax resident. After 3 consecutive years of tax residency you are then considered to be ordinarily resident, which is a more permanent status of tax residency.

You don't need to worry about the payment of DIRT as it is taxed at source. But you would need to consider capital gains tax because if you have any investments, land, property, general assets, etc that you dispose of during your time here they you are likely liable to capital gains tax.

So if for example you had bought €10k of shares in Apple back in 2001 and they are now worth €100k and you sold them while you are an Irish tax resident then you'd be liable for capital gains tax (currently a hefty 33% but it was once as high as 40% and low as 20%). Your capital gain here is €90k so the you would owe the government 33% of that €90k, i.e. more or less €30k in taxes.

CGT is payable on worldwide income, not just assets that are in Ireland. So despite your shares having bought a part of a US company by a US citizen on US soil the gains from those shares would later become taxable by the Irish government if you were tax resident here.

Irish and America have a double taxation agreement so you would get relief on your taxes to the IRS for any taxes paid here. However if you do have a large asset to sell it may well be the case that it is financially advantageous for you to dispose of it whilst still an American tax resident than waiting to come here. All of which means you may need specialist advice.

carpejugulum

RATM wrote: »

Carol also be aware that Ireland has what is called a Deposit Interest Retention Tax (DIRT for short). So if you leave €200k savings in an Irish account at an interest rate of 4% and it yields €8k in interest then the government will tax that €8k with DIRT at 33%.

+4% PRSI

carol192

Thank you all, wonderful information. The picture is becoming clearer!

the_syco

Check with your current bank to see if they have any links to banks in Ireland.

You state that one of ye have served, and thus it may be worth your while staying with your current health insurer if they have an Irish office. I say this, as I think some of them have a thing about not giving you money to treat illness or injury that pre-existed your join date (on the off chance that you have any injuries from having served).

As for living here, I'd recommend getting storage space, putting all your stuff there, and have a look around Ireland before settling. Maybe rent in an area for a year or so before buying there to ensure you like the area?

Also, ASK HERE about any area you're thinking of buying, as some places built during the last decade or so had poor foresight. Of course, never trust the Estate Agent, as they'll lie through their teeth to get a sale :P

pinkypinky

Carol,

On the house buying front, do read up on the process here, as the concept of having a realtor who finds properties for you to look at it (as in the USA) does not exist here.

Best of luck - it's a brave step to move away from what you know.

Pinky

munchkin_utd

carol, you say you are in your mid 60s.

Thats a great age to be as the irish government (which has no money and is borrowing billions per year to cover medical and social welfare services) still has fantasic generous schemes in place which mean you will have far more disposable income than anyone say in their mid 30s who get little to no benefits, have far lower tax credits and from that still have to cope with commuting/ child costs.

but anyhow, you may enjoy this bonanza when its there starting with 36,000 (ca 50,000 dolla) initial tax free income.
Should you be under that then your interest on savings is also potentially tax free. Details are here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax_credits_and_reliefs/older_peoples_tax_credits_and_reliefs.html

The state may also pay the lions share of your electricity, gas, telephone bills. The tv licence is also covered by the state.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/household_benefits_package.html

The state also gives unlimited, non time restricted use of virtually all public transport in Ireland (and journeys to Northern Ireland).
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html

Medical cover is also brilliant in Ireland as the medical system which costs 15billion a year (€3000 a head) is free to the end user. Getting a diagnosis to then get your multi thousand euro free treatments is the problem which is the real use of medical insurance in Ireland.
The insurance though doesnt cover any expensive medicines you may need. The state covers that for you too!
Theres also other benefits that kick in with 70 years like care in the home and whatnot that the state covers and at thats stage you become entitled to a medical card which also gives free GP care - covered by the state.

a rundown of it is here and the bulk of services are related to residence not nationality or record of social insurance payment or means tested:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/entitlement_to_health_services/entitlement_to_public_health_services.html

EDIT: aside from all what you get above, should your income + assets (excluding your home!) be low enough then the state will ALSO potentially give you up to €220 per week (298 dollars) in hard cash - which is naturally tax free should you receive it as you'd not qualify for it unless your income was low enough in the first place. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_non_contributory.html

RATM

munchkin_utd I think Carol explictily stated that they are retiring and aren't going to be reliant on the State.

Also she wouldn't qualify for dole until she has two continuous years of working history and PRSI paid so please stop giving out incorrect information. This poster came here for facts, not your slanted version of facts.

Victor

munchkin_utd wrote: »

carol, you say you are in your mid 60s.

Thats a great age to be as the irish government (which has no money and is borrowing billions per year to cover medical and social welfare services) still has fantasic generous schemes in place which mean you will have far more disposable income than anyone say in their mid 30s who get little to no benefits, have far lower tax credits and from that still have to cope with commuting/ child costs.

but anyhow, you may enjoy this bonanza when its there starting with 36,000 (ca 50,000 dolla) initial tax free income.
Should you be under that then your interest on savings is also potentially tax free. Details are here:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax_credits_and_reliefs/older_peoples_tax_credits_and_reliefs.html

The state may also pay the lions share of your electricity, gas, telephone bills. The tv licence is also covered by the state.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/household_benefits_package.html

The state also gives unlimited, non time restricted use of virtually all public transport in Ireland (and journeys to Northern Ireland).
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/free_travel.html

Medical cover is also brilliant in Ireland as the medical system which costs 15billion a year (€3000 a head) is free to the end user. Getting a diagnosis to then get your multi thousand euro free treatments is the problem which is the real use of medical insurance in Ireland.
The insurance though doesnt cover any expensive medicines you may need. The state covers that for you too!
Theres also other benefits that kick in with 70 years like care in the home and whatnot that the state covers and at thats stage you become entitled to a medical card which also gives free GP care - covered by the state.

a rundown of it is here and the bulk of services are related to residence not nationality or record of social insurance payment or means tested:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/entitlement_to_health_services/entitlement_to_public_health_services.html

EDIT: aside from all what you get above, should your income + assets (excluding your home!) be low enough then the state will ALSO potentially give you up to €220 per week (298 dollars) in hard cash - which is naturally tax free should you receive it as you'd not qualify for it unless your income was low enough in the first place. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_non_contributory.html

I'm distinctly unimpressed with the tone of this post. I'm not sure if you intention is to insult the original poster or the rest of us

Moderator

---

As she doesn't have the requisite residence period or PRSI contributions, the original poster will have limited entitlements.

munchkin_utd

RATM wrote: »

munchkin_utd I think Carol explictily stated that they are retiring and aren't going to be reliant on the State.

Also she wouldn't qualify for dole until she has two continuous years of working history and PRSI paid so please stop giving out incorrect information. This poster came here for facts, not your slanted version of facts.

I was issued with a warning about the tone of the post which I accept but there was absolutely no offense intended to anyone on any side.
In a slightly roundabout way I pointed out what the folks may have coming to them may not be there in the medium term as the country is broke and is borrowing on order to provide such generous benefits
And if you spotted, I went to the effort of easing their move to Ireland and search for information with links to official websites on how to get what is in most cases an entitlement for residents of Ireland regardless of nationality(as stated by the linked Irish government websites)

I did nowhere mention that the folks would be entitled to the dole, just that a lot of benefits accrue for folks resident in Ireland in general (which implicitly wouldn't be obvious to someone from the us where the government isn't so generous) and to pensioners in particular, also based on residency/ their age and not means tested.

The one thing maybe that's missing is that the test for residence is your "centre of interest " being in Ireland, but stayng very on topic - if you sell your property abroad and your sole home is in Ireland then you're half ways there to establishing this criteria.

carol192

We are shipping very little, no furniture. We plan to rent. Thanks to the mutual tax agreement, we will be taxed in the US. You pay a higher tax rate there, but get many more benefits. Fortunately, my job allows me to continue my health plan in retirement. It seems to be the little things that are sticky. All banks require that we walk in personally. They are willing to send forms, but forms are the easy part! We are looking forward to July, thank you for your continued assistance.

jmayo

Not raining on your parade but just a few words of caution.

I have had relatives who after spending 35 odd years in New York retired to Galway in the West of Ireland.
They had two close relatives nearby but it was still a culture shock for them.
They did not have family in the States but they suddenly lost the friends network they had built up over the years.

Over the years they have built up a nice network of friends and neighbours who have come in very handy in times of need.

It is one thing to visit a place for a holiday, but it is quiet another to move lock stock to a place and live their day to day.
I guess what I am saying is don't burn all your bridges until you are settled into your new life and sure it is what you want for maybe the rest of your life.

One person here gave some good advise about both asking for advise on places to live and not immediately tying yourself to the first place you find.
Anyway best of luck with whatever you decide.

miss no stars

carol192 wrote: »

we will be taxed in the US. You pay a higher tax rate there, but get many more benefits.

Are you sure about that? Seriously, double check that (and it might be worth double checking with both Irish and American tax accountants!)

Peregrinus

miss no stars wrote: »

Are you sure about that? Seriously, double check that (and it might be worth double checking with both Irish and American tax accountants!)

When Carol says "you", she means us in Ireland - she's saying that we pay higher rates of tax, but receive higher levels of government service in return, which I think is correct.

miss no stars

Peregrinus wrote: »

When Carol says "you", she means us in Ireland - she's saying that we pay higher rates of tax, but receive higher levels of government service in return, which I think is correct.

Ah okay, it was the "we will be taxed in the US. You pay a higher tax rate there..." that got me!

carpejugulum

carol192 wrote: »

You pay a higher tax rate there, but get many more benefits..

Taxes on pension are rather low.

The_Conductor

A little less sniping at one another please guys........

munchkin_utd

To provide an update on this topic for folks maybe referencing it in the future and basing important decisions on, the government has quietly tightened up eligibility for folks to retire in Ireland to basically only the rich (as a pension or funds that satisfy the criteria mean you have a pension or cash pot of a few million)

An unpublicized change in Irish immigration rules has eliminated the ability of all but wealthy non-Europen Union citizens from retiring in the country.

Effective without notice some time in March 2015, the Ireland Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS) changed the standards by which non-EU retirees are determined to be financially suitable for residency.

The new rule requires that retirees have an annual income of no less than €50,000 per person, (€100,000 for a married couple) for the remainder of their lives in Ireland, regardless of their existing cash on hand or lack of debt.

Ireland rejecting American retirees under new rules

The_Conductor

Muchkin- thats a complete and utter distortion of facts.
EU legislation on non-EU citizens retiring within the EU was revised and updated- and had a commencement date in Irish law- earlier this year.

It relates solely to Non-EU citizens retiring in Ireland.

A US/Canadian/Australian or other individual entitled to Irish citizenship under any of our ancestral schemes- will, once granted citizenship, be considered to be an EU citizen.

Ireland, in common with many other EU states- recognises and fully allows dual citizenship arrangements- there is no change to this.

The rules governing income levels- are to prevent destitute non-EU citizens from being a burden on the exchequer of any member state. A minimum income level is prescribed- which is considered necessary- for those who have not made requisite stamp contributions during their careers in member states (i.e. retirees who are not entitled to contributory old age pensions and other state disbursements to the elderly- including free healthcare, fuel allowances, tv licences, bus/rail travel etc etc).

The level at which this income is set- is on the higher side of what people might expect- however, this is solely because such retirees will not be eligible for contributory state disbursements- nothing more, nothing less.

The article itself- is a disgrace- and a complete and utter distortion of facts written in a shrill and hysterical manner to appeal to an audience who alternatively proclaim their love of Ireland, alternating with bashing the country at every possible opportunity.

Thread closed.