Why don't you speak Irish?

johnolocher

I wasn't born here and I don't feel any special connection towards it but I am still learning, not because it's practical because it isn't it just happens to be something I enjoy learning, the Irish speaking/learning community is quite small but it's vibrant and I enjoyed learning it at classes in Dublin and speaking it on Falls road in Belfast. I suppose I would get that sense of achievement at learning French of Karate too I just happened to have an urge to learn a bit of something that gets so many people hot under the collar over here!

Cosmicfox

La_Gordy wrote: »

I speak two languages and the reason I can do this is because of good teaching and a focus on speaking. I don't remember ever being taught about Irish grammar and apparently there's a masculine and a feminine??? Naebody telt us. It's a real shame that after 14 years of Irish I'd say most of know nought.

Really? I honestly never knew there were masculine and feminine words and I just got a B3 in pass Irish in my LC this year. I've always been terrible at Irish so they must mark the exams very easy.

Ficheall

One reason I don't speak Irish because there are Vietnamese, Spanish, English, Argentinian and Portuguese lads in the office (where I spend most of my time ) and it seems slightly rude to speak in a language they can't understand. The Vietnamese speak to each other in their native tongue because their English isn't great and it's easier to do so. That said, they are learning some Irish phrases, and we are learning some Vietnamese in turn. It's fun - it doesn't matter that it is of no practical benefit.

A group of us met for dinner last week with the intention of practising our Irish, but an American and Spaniard joined us, and while the American used the few phrases he had picked up in his six months here, it really wasn't fair or feasible to speak Irish.

Many Irish people feel embarrassed by their perceived lack of Irish, so one can't speak it to them either. Then, there is the fact that there are plenty of people around to speak Irish to - it is just difficult to find who they are, because people automatically start their conversations in English.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

La_Gordy wrote: »

I speak two languages and the reason I can do this is because of good teaching and a focus on speaking. I don't remember ever being taught about Irish grammar and apparently there's a masculine and a feminine??? Naebody telt us. It's a real shame that after 14 years of Irish I'd say most of know nought.

Really?

It was only when I started learning Danish in my mid-20s that someone explained what a fada/accent did.

Lelantos

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Really?

It was only when I started learning Danish in my mid-20s that someone explained what a fada/accent did.

You slept thru Irish classes?

Gannicus

I did honours Irish for the leaving cert and went to Gaeltachts as a kid and I was quite a strong Irish speaker. Since leaving school I started using it less and less. I tried incorporating it in my daily life.

My job told me to stop as the office we had up in Derry made a complaint about me having "Slán" and "Go raibh maith agat" as the signature of my e-mails.

I was hauled in front of a senior manager and categorically told "do not use Irish in work".

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Lelantos wrote: »

You slept thru Irish classes?

Nope. Even passed the occasional exam. They just never taught me. Too busy teaching me poems and short stories.

You slept "thru" English classes?

ShaunC

franktheplank wrote: »

Well, why don't you? As far as I can see (I'm open to correction ) efforts to revive the Irish language have failed. For me, I think what put me off was being forced to learn it in school and also, I don't think learning it makes me any more or less 'Irish'.

I'm interested to know why other people don't speak Irish, especially considering the amounts spent yearly on Irish language life-support. So it's time (if you're willing) for that mainstay of social research, an AH poll!

"Efforts to revive the Irish language have failed"
Are you sure about that? My local town has a Gaelscoil for the last 15 years and it continues to be oversubscribed every year. About 4 years ago a second school opened its doors and it is already thriving. At the moment there are efforts being made to open an all Irish secondary school, I can't see it happening this year but it will happen in the near future.
One of my children has been to the Gaeltacht a few times and it is often very hard to get a place because of the crowds applying for places on these courses.
Sorry to disagree with you OP but from where I'm standing the Irish language is getting stronger and stronger.
Btw I am not an Irish speaker because my teacher was a useless drunk.

MiseryMary

franktheplank wrote: »

Well, why don't you? As far as I can see (I'm open to correction ) efforts to revive the Irish language have failed. For me, I think what put me off was being forced to learn it in school and also, I don't think learning it makes me any more or less 'Irish'.

I'm interested to know why other people don't speak Irish, especially considering the amounts spent yearly on Irish language life-support. So it's time (if you're willing) for that mainstay of social research, an AH poll!

Efforts to revive the Irish language have failed because people don't want to learn it and have no use for it and they have it compulsory in the schools which I think should be made as a CHOICE subject so the people who choose not to learn Irish can pick up another language instead and for the people who wants Irish can go ahead with it but should be made a choice , Me I'm Irish but never did Irish Language in school because we wrote off to the department of education to get it taken off for me and I did French instead for a second language ,not speaking Irish doesn't bother me and happy working in my job using my main language English.

Lelantos

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Nope. Even passed the occasional exam. They just never taught me. Too busy teaching me poems and short stories.

You slept "thru" English classes?

Anyone who states that they were unaware of the 10 vowel sounds in Irish didn't pay attention.....or was impervious to beatings

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Lelantos wrote: »

Anyone who states that they were unaware of the 10 vowel sounds in Irish didn't pay attention.....or was impervious to beatings

I didn't pay attention a lot of the time but still managed to pick up the basics of every other subject to the point that I passed pretty much every test I took. The problem is that this is something that is a major difference between English and other languages and soemthing that should have been sorted out at the very onset. It wasn't. I was taught poems, I was taught the writing of the language, I was taught to read it. But I was never taught the basic aural differences between the vowels and the accented vowels, because the emphasis was on a language you learn, and not on a language you speak.

Seriously, I would have picked it up at some point if it was taught, even if I wasn't paying attention on occasion.

I was impervious to the beatings, this being the ealry 80s.

La_Gordy

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Irish/Nouns

There's a masculine and feminine mentioned here, and nobody here seemed to know...

uch

I Just clicked cause I thought i'd get another Beer

opti0nal

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

It wasn't. I was taught poems, I was taught the writing of the language, I was taught to read it. But I was never taught the basic aural differences between the vowels and the accented vowels, because the emphasis was on a language you learn, and not on a language you speak.[/] ....I was impervious to the beatings, this being the early 80s.

The real emphisis was to make the children feel ashamed of being English-speaking.

The beatings may have been stopped, but the coercion continues.

DazMarz

I speak Irish fluently, but I have no need to use it in my everyday life. I went to an all-Irish secondary school and spent some time in a Gaeltacht college prior to that (although that place was like fúcking Auschwitz), so I can speak it fluently.

However, there is little to no opportunity to speak it on a daily basis any more. But it is still nice to have it. I'm often worried I'll forget how to speak it and all, but I watch Nuacht RTE and some programmes on TG4 from time to time and I still understand it perfectly. So at least it hasn't left me... yet.

Lightbulb Sun

I don't always buy the its taught badly excuse. If you can't hold a conversation after 12 years study, you haven't put enough effort into learning the language.

opti0nal

Lightbulb Sun wrote: »

I don't always buy the its taught badly excuse. If you can't hold a conversation after 12 years study, you haven't put enough effort into learning the language.

That's the official line that anyone who does not speak Irish is at fault and is somehow a defective Irish person.

Imagine the 'appalling vista' if the establishment had to accept that most people simply don't want to speak Irish.

Dublin Red Devil

My teachers didn't teach it to me properly, I went through the full Irish education system from Junior infants to leaving cert and I still wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with somebody in Irish. Countless hours, Days wasted "learning" Irish

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Lightbulb Sun wrote: »

I don't always buy the its taught badly excuse. If you can't hold a conversation after 12 years study, you haven't put enough effort into learning the language.

A good teacher will get students interested. The obvious question is, though: why don't students put enough effort into learning the langauge?

opti0nal

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

My teachers didn't teach it to me properly,

It says much about the systemic abusive shaming of children for not speaking Irish, that rather than state they didn't want to speak Irish (a fundamental human right, and quite normal for an English-speaking child), bad teaching is blamed. This explanation being more acceptable to the establishment and its dogma. This also allowed the child to avoid the opprobium of being accused and isolated for not being sufficiently 'Irish'.

Lelantos

opti0nal wrote: »

It says much about the systemic abusive shaming of children for not speaking Irish, that rather than state they didn't want to speak Irish (a fundamental human right, and quite normal for an English-speaking child), bad teaching is blamed. This explanation being more acceptable to the establishment and its dogma. This also allowed the child to avoid the opprobium of being accused and isolated for not being sufficiently 'Irish'.

Substitute French or German for Irish in that statement

Lightbulb Sun

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

My teachers didn't teach it to me properly, I went through the full Irish education system from Junior infants to leaving cert and I still wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with somebody in Irish. Countless hours, Days wasted "learning" Irish

You don't sound like you had enthusiasm for learning it judging by your last sentence.

greenflash

I'm quite happy not speaking Irish. I feel no guilt and have no desire to use a language that is in reality little more than a museum piece.

One of Ireland's main selling points is that it is an English speaking country and I honestly don't see how flogging the dead horse that is the Irish language is in any way beneficial to the country now or for generations to come.

mickstupp

I wish you could choose multiple options... like, five of them.

pickarooney

I don't live in an Irish speaking area. I never have, come to think of it. That's the overriding reason for most people, I would guess.

Coileach dearg

greenflash wrote: »

I'm quite happy not speaking Irish. I feel no guilt and have no desire to use a language that is in reality little more than a museum piece.

One of Ireland's main selling points is that it is an English speaking country and I honestly don't see how flogging the dead horse that is the Irish language is in any way beneficial to the country now or for generations to come.

That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it but the fact is the Irish language will be around long after you and me are no more.
The fact is, outside your world of denial, there are thousands speaking the beautiful language every day and no matter how bitter you and your ilk are about it, that will never change.
We are a bilingual nation so embrace it.

mickydoomsux

Coileach dearg wrote: »

That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it but the fact is the Irish language will be around long after you and me are no more.
The fact is, outside your world of denial, there are thousands speaking the beautiful language every day and no matter how bitter you and your ilk are about it, that will never change.
We are a bilingual nation so embrace it.

Thousands of speakers in a country of millions.

It's an utter irrelevance to day to day life in the country of Ireland.

Death and Taxes

Coileach dearg wrote: »

That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it but the fact is the Irish language will be around long after you and me are no more.
The fact is, outside your world of denial, there are thousands speaking the beautiful language every day and no matter how bitter you and your ilk are about it, that will never change.
We are a bilingual nation so embrace it.

We are certainly a multi lingual country, with Polish being the second most widely spoken language.
We could hardly be described however as a bi-lingual nation when so few speak the language fluently, we certainly have isolated bi lingual communities, but that does ot equate to being a bi-lingual nation.
For myself, like most I have a smattering of Irish, a cúpla focal, and I do use it on occassions to say Go raibh maith agat or similar. I dont resent Irish, it just has very little meaning in my life, but i don't bash those who wish to speak it, fair play to them.

Coileach dearg

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Thousands of speakers in a country of millions.

It's an utter irrelevance to day to day life in the country of Ireland.

Utter irrelevance for those who don't want to speak it.

Carlos Orange

Coileach dearg wrote: »

That may be your opinion and you're entitled to it but the fact is the Irish language will be around long after you and me are no more.
The fact is, outside your world of denial, there are thousands speaking the beautiful language every day and no matter how bitter you and your ilk are about it, that will never change.
We are a bilingual nation so embrace it.

Are there any countries in Europe that are less bilingual than us?

Coileach dearg

WileyCoyote wrote: »

We are certainly a multi lingual country, with Polish being the second most widely spoken language.
.

Not according to the census:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0330/1224314100321.html
1.77 Million Irish speakers

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/british-overtaken-as-polish-population-doubles-3066469.html
123000 Polish in Ireland

Where did you get your stats from?

Coileach dearg

psinno wrote: »

Are there any countries in Europe that are less bilingual than us?

How is that relevant? Why feel the need to compete?

Iwasfrozen

Coileach dearg wrote: »

Utter irrelevance for those who don't want to speak it.

If 99% of the population doesn't want to speak it then we aren't a bi lingual nation.

Carlos Orange

Coileach dearg wrote: »

Not according to the census:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0330/1224314100321.html
1.77 Million Irish speakers

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/british-overtaken-as-polish-population-doubles-3066469.html
123000 Polish in Ireland

Where did you get your stats from?

I think it would be delusional to think those two numbers are comparable.

Death and Taxes

Coileach dearg wrote: »

Not according to the census:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0330/1224314100321.html
1.77 Million Irish speakers

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/british-overtaken-as-polish-population-doubles-3066469.html
123000 Polish in Ireland

Where did you get your stats from?

The Census, how many people speak Irish fluently on a daily basis?
Go on check the census yourself.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-now-the-third-most-spoken-language-in-Ireland-after-English-and-Polish-145200025.html
The 2011 Census, released by the Central Statistics Office Ireland (CSO), shows that Irish is the third most spoken language in the country, after English and Polish.

The Census found that 82,600 in Ireland speak Irish outside of school (where it is an obligatory subject). The CSO also reported that 119,526 speak Polish at home and 56,430 speak French.



If you read my post you would see I am in no way anti- Irish language.:)

Carlos Orange

Coileach dearg wrote: »

How is that relevant? Why feel the need to compete?

Because claiming you are something is pretty meaningless when everybody is.

Coileach dearg

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If 99% of the population doesn't want to speak it then we aren't a bi lingual nation.

1.77 million Irish people speak Irish according to the census. Where did you pull that statistic from?

Iwasfrozen

Coileach dearg wrote: »

1.77 million Irish people speak Irish according to the census. Where did you pull that statistic from?

1.77 million people do not speak Irish. You know they don't, claiming they do is idiotic.

Carlos Orange

Coileach dearg wrote: »

1.77 million Irish people speak Irish according to the census. Where did you pull that statistic from?

The census doesn't even say that. It says people (claim they) can not do.

Gotham

I was forced into it as a child in a ridiculous manner, I had no desire or want to learn it even at that young age.
I'm disgusted at the way it wasn't taught like any continental language, without any structure or seriousness.
I was disgusted at the mandatory requirements to learn it in school, and the requirements that many universities had for it. Additional to this, it does not count as a second language for such purposes.
I despised the fact we were taught something we would never really use, or be useful to us.

I wish I did know it, I really do, but I've a sour taste in my mouth and I'd never wish it on anyone. Just make the teaching process like French, German or Spanish and remove the mandatory requirement and I'll be happy.
I campaigned against it's mandatory teaching my whole life.
I got myself exempt after the junior cert and I've never looked back.

Coileach dearg

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

1.77 million people do not speak Irish. You know they don't, claiming they do is idiotic.

I certainly don't believe it either but I referenced the census as it is probably the only viable source for statistics that we have.

Lelantos

Anywhere between 60k & 70k of the population use Irish on a daily basis as their first language, so it isn't irrelevant. I couldn't guess how many more try to use it conversationally.
The only.plus I see is that in primary school the oral part of the syllabus is encouraged more & more, no emphasis on poetry or the things that annoyed us all as kids

Iwasfrozen

Coileach dearg wrote: »

I certainly don't believe it either but I referenced the census as it is probably the only viable source for statistics that we have.

But that's the thing it's not a viable source for statistics. People are obviously either lying or counting the cupla focal as being able to "speak" irish. But there's no way 35% of the population can speak the language it's just not true.

greenflash

I remember my missus said she speaks Irish on the census form when the truth is she has less Irish than I do. I wonder how many of the 1.77 million others completed the form similarly? I speak French well enough, having learned it in school, lived France and used it on a regular basis since childhood. I've also got a fair amount of German and Spanish and have had plenty of reason to use them over the years. I've lived in Ireland most of my life and outside of school, I don't think there's been one instance where I have had to speak or understand Irish in order to communicate with another person.

Nothing against the language or its speakers but I just don't see any reason to continue it's promotion.

Gotham

Given the current poll results (and assuming the OP thinks Atari Jaguars are bad),
the percentage of people that speak Irish is 22%.

Spoiler poll screenshot.

martic

Like all Children to go to school in Ireland I was 'taught' Gaeilge from the age of 5 until I sat my leaving cert, It says a lot about the method it is taught when after 12-13 years I achieved an E in my leaving cert Irish. It's nearly 20 years since I sat my leaving I am a now a member of a local branch of Conradh na Gaeilge while attending university 2 nights a week doing a diploma in Gaeilge. I have never enjoyed studying something as much in a long time as it is My choice to do it this time. A language or any subject shouldn't be forced it should always be encouraged.

Wibbs

Coileach dearg wrote: »

Not according to the census:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0330/1224314100321.html
1.77 Million Irish speakers

I can't believe the Irish language supporters still try to trot that one out as fact. Kids in school hardly count, unless they're in a Gaelscoil and out of 4000 schools in Ireland they make up around 400. If there were nearly 2 million Irish speakers - nigh on half the population of this nation - we'd not be having debates like this, nor would we have the lunguage lobby being so vocal about losing "our" language(or the eejits on the other side claiming it's extinct). We wouldn't need compulsion, nor any of the other state support. It would just be another form of communication for half our population. Clearly it isn't.

Then we get to the notion of fluency. If anyone reckons nearly two million people in Ireland have fluency as Gaelige within an asses roar of their fluency as Bearla they are most certainly delusional. A figure I've seen more than once suggests a language base of around 20,000 who are actually fluent Irish speakers, with fluency dropping off sharply outside of that. I've seen this nearly two million figure being mentioned on TG4, but I'd put good money they'd crap themselves regarding viewing figures if their subtitle machine went kaput.

As somebody has pointed out, even here on Boards.ie, the largest discussion site in Ireland, the Irish forum while a welcome addition has remarkably low traffic. I've seen private forums with 20 users fly past it's number of posts within a year and it's been going open to all comers since 2007. At this very moment when I looked while AH has 400 odd viewers, Teach na nGealt had 1 and that was a lurker.

Plus the census for all it's pros, has the con of being self reporting. That's no way to get accurate results on some matters. If self reporting was accurate then most blokes polled on the interweb would have a ten inch mickey and the fighting ability of Bruce Lee.

starlings

Wibbs wrote: »

Kids in school hardly count, unless they're in a Gaelscoil and out of 4000 schools in Ireland they make up around 400.

And unless the Gaelscoil is actually in a Gaeltacht, or the pupils have native Irish-speaking parents, they are speaking their own creole because they're starting from thinking in English, so the syntax gets a bit messy.

franktheplank

Wibbs wrote: »

If self reporting was accurate then most blokes polled on the interweb would have a ten inch mickey and the fighting ability of Bruce Lee.

10 inches puh puny, I'd fookin own Bruce Lee, Brad Pitt's my ugly little brother and as a matter of fact I invented Irish :pac::pac::pac:

It's like those housework studies the feminists are always bangin on about. We do 18 hours per week more housework blah, blah, blah. If you include gossiping, nagging and getting your nails done as housework.....

Neutronale

danslevent wrote: »

I don't plan on living in Ireland my whole life so didn't see the point. I'm so much better at French than Irish, which career wise etc, it so much better.

English is better again, so you needn't have bothered