Dublin GAA Discussion Thread - 2013

blackbelt

coolhandluke wrote: »

Anyone sick of these croke pk fixtures.....? I have to say it's a pain in the arse going to croke pk on fri/sat nights especially with small kids in the freezing cold.....the last match i'd say the crowd would barely fill parnell pk.

What was wrong with sun afternoon in parnell pk, i know the place was getting pretty full, but i think with the recession alot of that extra crowd has fizzled out.

I have to say i think if they go for another winter night season in croke pk, i will be pulling out of the season ticket scheme next year.

I agree with you in ways but Croke Park just makes too much sense both financially and in terms of Dublins preparation for the championship.The atmosphere on a Saturday night under lights in Parnell Park is much better though.

corny

I was under the impression the GAA needed 20,000+ (dependent on ticket prices obviously) to break even for games at Croker given the costs etc.

That could be my bogus memory but are they actually making a profit from 15,000-20,000 gates each week?

Dothehustle

corny wrote: »

I was under the impression the GAA needed 20,000+ (dependent on ticket prices obviously) to break even for games at Croker given the costs etc.

That could be my bogus memory but are they actually making a profit from 15,000-20,000 gates each week?

well they didn't make a profit today then just under 11 thousand at tonights game

ProudDUB

It's a crap shoot really. The GAA/DCB have no way of knowing what walk up number they will get on the day itself. There are things affecting attendance, that are outside of their control, things such as the weather. This Spring really has been unseasonably cold and wet. That has to have an impact.

Then again, the GAA can be their own worst enemy at times. Scheduling games on the same day/times as the Six Nations rugby, Mother Day etc etc really doesn't help them get bums on seats, so it is hard to have sympathy for them sometimes.

babaracus

corny wrote: »

I was under the impression the GAA needed 20,000+ (dependent on ticket prices obviously) to break even for games at Croker given the costs etc.

That could be my bogus memory but are they actually making a profit from 15,000-20,000 gates each week?

I heard they struggle to make a profit if the crowd is under 30k. The Dublin league games in Croker are supposedly more about promotion of the game than profit.

I think most Dublin people would prefer the games in Parnell.

copacetic

ProudDUB wrote: »

It's a crap shoot really. The GAA/DCB have no way of knowing what walk up number they will get on the day itself. There are things affecting attendance, that are outside of their control, things such as the weather. This Spring really has been unseasonably cold and wet. That has to have an impact.

Then again, the GAA can be their own worst enemy at times. Scheduling games on the same day/times as the Six Nations rugby, Mother Day etc etc really doesn't help them get bums on seats, so it is hard to have sympathy for them sometimes.

Today was nearly 50% worse than next worse game, combination of the terrible couple of days of weather, opposition bringing hardly anyone, a number of games in a row, game being on TV and scheduled to directly clash with Leinster home game at RDS.

Qwerty Dub

I think this will be the last year of the Spring Series. Hopefully back to Parnell Park then.

Wouldn't worry about the capacity as the 'Croke Park Fans' wont show up. Much better in Parnell Pk.

Justin10

Croke Park break even at around 5K, seen it recently in an official document

Stoner

I like the games in croke park, I was there with four adults and four kids, it was cold but the kids had a great time, there is a huge difference between the spring series this year compared to last year, it was better organised last year and had better entertainment for the kids. Last nights game was enjoyable, but also the dullest in the series, but its some weather at the moment.

howiya

Scheduling is a big problem in my opinion. Not other sports but the clashes with our own sports. Who cares what's on in the RDS? Surely Leinster could have rescheduled their match to avoid a clash. They didn't think of the GAA so why should the GAA think of them?

The problem with the league is that more often than not it clashes with our own club games. Obviously there was very little on yesterday due to the weather but how many people are going to trek into Croke Park after braving the elements while they watch young johnny play a CCC2 game on a Saturday afternoon.

Under 16 game throws in at 3pm. How are people supposed to get to Croke Park at 5pm for a double header?

The Kildare "home" game against Dublin had a 2pm throw in yet junior club games were taking place 12pm.

The marketing effort for these games is quite low. We rely on GAA people from our clubs to get out and support the Dubs and therefore we need to schedule National League in a way that can maximise attendance.

Yes the weather and the economy are other factors keeping people away from games but these aren't items within the control of the GAA

radonicus

Rochey18 wrote: »

Croke Park break even at around 5K, seen it recently in an official document

Is that a typo??

blackbelt

Well done to the lads for pulling out the win yesterday but I can't say the scoreline reflected how hard fought it was even though we could have won by 13 or 14 points if we converted some easy frees and if our shooting from general play was better.

The free taking is a concern.Connolly and Mannion are not trustworthy as they tend to miss more but I thought Mannion grew into the game and showed well for the ball.Thought defense was immense in the second half.Really employed the swarm on Down in the second half as opposed to the first half and it worked a treat.

Again, another poor referee branded a yellow card for a striking offense and was whistle happy.I am thinking some referees have an agenda against us.O Byrne Cup final with Johnny Doyle,Donaghy down in Killarney,Tyrone last week and Harrison punching Cooper in the face.The problem isn't the black card and eliminating cynical fouls.It seems to be the referees themselves that cannot or won't implement the rules that are already in place.

ProudDUB

howiya wrote: »

Scheduling is a big problem in my opinion. Not other sports but the clashes with our own sports. Who cares what's on in the RDS? Surely Leinster could have rescheduled their match to avoid a clash. They didn't think of the GAA so why should the GAA think of them?

That is a very short sighted approach to take if you want to build an audience for a sport. Who cares? Well the people who support both teams, for starters. The people (like me) who would like to go watch both teams play if they could. The days when people only supported a GAA team or a rugby team are long since over. The rugby is part of an international competition involving teams from other countries, air travel and international TV rights. It is a much harder logistical feat for them to organzise their games and much more difficult to change them. Plus, Leinster always play their home games on Saturday evenings, so its not as if the GAA don't already know ahead of time when they are going to be on.

DoctaDee

blackbelt wrote: »

..................Again, another poor referee branded a yellow card for a striking offense and was whistle happy.I am thinking some referees have an agenda against us.O Byrne Cup final with Johnny Doyle,Donaghy down in Killarney,Tyrone last week and Harrison punching Cooper in the face.The problem isn't the black card and eliminating cynical fouls.It seems to be the referees themselves that cannot or won't implement the rules that are already in place.

Agree 100%, thats 2 weeks in a row where we've allegedly seen 2 of the best 16 referees in the country - well we're in trouble so. I've no doubt that if DC had've striked an opponent like Harrison did last night he'd be marched off. Whether we're on the right or wrong side of decisions I've no faith in the abilities of Marty Duffy or Fergal Kelly

Random thought ... made an excursion at halftime from Cusack over to Hogan for a quick getaway at fulltime... my jaysis it was freezing over there... a good few degrees colder than Cusack .. answers on a postcard ?

blackbelt

DoctaDee wrote: »

Agree 100%, thats 2 weeks in a row where we've allegedly seen 2 of the best 16 referees in the country - well we're in trouble so. I've no doubt that if DC had've striked an opponent like Harrison did last night he'd be marched off. Whether we're on the right or wrong side of decisions I've no faith in the abilities of Marty Duffy or Fergal Kelly

Random thought ... made an excursion at halftime from Cusack over to Hogan for a quick getaway at fulltime... my jaysis it was freezing over there... a good few degrees colder than Cusack .. answers on a postcard ?

Absolutely but Marty Duffy has been riding us for years.He is a poor referee who is probably just about a poor to fair junior club level standard.He harshly sent off James McCarthy against Mayo in the fog league match and looked on as Ciaran Whelan was blatantly elbowed in the face 3 yards in front of him when we ws a sideline official. The GAA and Pat McEneaney and the referees board really need to look at the appointments of referess and suitable referees more closely.

DoctaDee

blackbelt wrote: »

Absolutely but Marty Duffy has been riding us for years.He is a poor referee who is probably just about a poor to fair junior club level standard.He harshly sent off James McCarthy against Mayo in the fog league match and looked on as Ciaran Whelan was blatantly elbowed in the face 3 yards in front of him when we ws a sideline official. The GAA and Pat McEneaney and the referees board really need to look at the appointments of referess and suitable referees more closely.

Marty Duffy is to my mind the worst referee I've seen in recent times, he's one of those that likes to be at the centre of attention, rather than being an inobtrusive influence. He did the line the week before last and still managed to have an impact fudging decisions. I'll give Fergal Kelly a little leeway as he probably had to attend the John Bannon school of refereeing

howiya

ProudDUB wrote: »

That is a very short sighted approach to take if you want to build an audience for a sport. Who cares? Well the people who support both teams, for starters. The people (like me) who would like to go watch both teams play if they could. The days when people only supported a GAA team or a rugby team are long since over. The rugby is part of an international competition involving teams from other countries, air travel and international TV rights. It is a much harder logistical feat for them to organzise their games and much more difficult to change them. Plus, Leinster always play their home games on Saturday evenings, so its not as if the GAA don't already know ahead of time when they are going to be on.

The reality is that most people will be unable to afford to go to both events if they were held seperately. A friend has paid €50 for a ticket to next week's Leinster game. €13 into Croke Park yesterday evening for the best seats in the house.

I wonder if the Leinster Rugby Union are wondering why there was only 16,000 people at the game last night when they can get 50,000 into the Aviva on certain days. I doubt they are blaming a clash with the GAA. Similiar to the GAA, the answer to that lies in the fickleness of both sets of supporters ie its not the championship or heineken cup

As it happens the Dublin County Board are quite keen on Friday night games which would clash with LOI soccer. I myself would be keen on Friday night games as they would give the GAA the lead in exposure and media coverage for the weekend.

Take the Kildare v Dublin game a couple of weeks ago. The rugby international was night before and this dominated most of the papers. If the weekend began with the GAA there would be more coverage.

The GAA are against Friday night games because of the work commitments of players or so they say... They weren't averse to sending Dublin footballers up to Armagh midweek to play a refixed match a few years back or the Dublin hurlers to Antrim for the same reason. They fix the Under 21 championships for midweek. Not all footballers/hurlers in that age group go to college and those who do might do so far away....

Hammer Archer

blackbelt wrote: »

Absolutely but Marty Duffy has been riding us for years.He is a poor referee who is probably just about a poor to fair junior club level standard.He harshly sent off James McCarthy against Mayo in the fog league match and looked on as Ciaran Whelan was blatantly elbowed in the face 3 yards in front of him when we ws a sideline official. The GAA and Pat McEneaney and the referees board really need to look at the appointments of referess and suitable referees more closely.

To be fair, he completely rode us against ye a few years back. Ger Brennan threw a punch at our player yet it somehow only warranted a yellow. Later on, he dragged down one of our forwards and Duffy went sprinting in with his notebook out and open, he seemed to pause and stare at it for a few seconds, then put it away fairly sharpish. Not to mention the exceptionally dodgy amount of injury time he added (that was the game Davoren originally got injured in).
Some referees are just bad no matter what game they're refereeing.

DoctaDee

Hammer Archer wrote: »

...........Some referees are just bad no matter what game they're refereeing.

Aint that the truth .. he has that certain knack:rolleyes:

I'll even agree on the Ger Brennan incident

howiya

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Some referees are just bad no matter what game they're refereeing.

Agree 100%. Didn't think he was any better today in the match on the telly

copacetic

Anyone have a link to the official rules for teams on same points?

Rte and Irish times list the dubs on top, GAA.ie has Tyrone on top.

Dubs have much better points score, less against, more goals and win on alphabetical!

Tyrone would be ahead on head to head record?

DARK-KNIGHT

copacetic wrote: »

Anyone have a link to the official rules for teams on same points?

Rte and Irish times list the dubs on top, GAA.ie has Tyrone on top.

Dubs have much better points score, less against, more goals and win on alphabetical!

Tyrone would be ahead on head to head record?

It's the fact that Tyrone beat Dublin that puts them top of the pile

copacetic

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

It's the fact that Tyrone beat Dublin that puts them top of the pile

? I said that in my post.

If you read it I was asking did anyone know where the rules can actually be found, as the table is different from different sources.

Stoner

Edit:

Where teams finish level on points for qualification for League finals or for Relegation, placings will be determined according to Rule 6.22 Official Guide 2009:
Where Teams finish with equal points for Qualification for the Concluding Stages, or for Promotion or Relegation, the tie shall be decided by the following means and in the order specified:
i. Where two Teams only are involved – the outcome of the meeting of the two Teams in the previous game in the Competition;
ii. Scoring Difference (subtracting the total Scores Against from total Scores For);
iii. Highest Total Score For;
iv. A Play-Off.

copacetic

Perfect thanks for that.

I've heard that the current table should actually show Dublin 1st as the head to head doesn't count until after last game, or at least that both versions are correct for now.

Obviously if Tyrone win, they will be top no matter what Dublin do, if Tyrone lose and Dublin win they will be top. I guess if they both lose and Kildare win, then 3 teams will be level so head to head won't count and Dublin will be top on scoring difference.

Interesting final day, with Tyrone at home to Kerry fighting relegation and Dublin away to Donegal who have an outside chance of relegation also. Kildare at down seem to have easiest game, so it could easily end with them all on 10 points.

I fancy Cork for 4th and Kerry to win at Tyrone though. So Dublin v Cork and Tyrone v Kildare as the semis.

Billy Mays

Hurling playoff against Limerick in Thurles on Saturday at 7pm
Another nonsense of a decision from the GAA

Fireball07

Billy Mays wrote: »

Hurling playoff against Limerick in Thurles on Saturday at 7pm
Another nonsense of a decision from the GAA

What's wrong with it?

Billy Mays

Fireball07 wrote: »

What's wrong with it?

Don't have a problem with it being in Thurles but I don't think they'll get as many people going with the throw in at 7. An afternoon throw in would have got a bigger crowd in my opinion

wazzer1

A full round of Dublin hurling league matches on sat evening wont help

Fireball07

Billy Mays wrote: »

Don't have a problem with it being in Thurles but I don't think they'll get as many people going with the throw in at 7. An afternoon throw in would have got a bigger crowd in my opinion

It's possible, I suppose. Dunno about Dublin, but their should be a decent crowd from Limerick at that time.

I think the reason it was changed from Sunday afternoon was the football on Sunday, Limerick for one have a game that decides promotion and there's Heineken Cup rugby too. Obviously if there's Dublin hurling league on the same time, that's not great.

Dublinfan

any one have any info or rumours about sundays team. really hoping brogans fit for it it was in doubt for down but two more weeks should have healed it if only a minor injury as said

dcr22B

Dublinfan wrote: »

any one have any info or rumours about sundays team. really hoping brogans fit for it it was in doubt for down but two more weeks should have healed it if only a minor injury as said

I don't think he will be risked personally.

I think there will be a good few changes to test out some of the Ballymun lads in advance of the semi finals.

On that, the DCB decided last night to postpone the first round SFC/IFC matches due to be played next week. Another shambles considering Jim Gavin had stated that they would definitely go ahead when asked last week.

Dubliner28

Billy Mays wrote: »

Don't have a problem with it being in Thurles but I don't think they'll get as many people going with the throw in at 7. An afternoon throw in would have got a bigger crowd in my opinion

Thurles is an hour and a half away. What a load of nonsense.

I suppose you wanted it played in Parnell or Croker ??? :rolleyes:

Drummerboy2

Dublinfan wrote: »

any one have any info or rumours about sundays team. really hoping brogans fit for it it was in doubt for down but two more weeks should have healed it if only a minor injury as said

Reckon it will be a very experimental team. We've already qualified and Gavin will have to give the Ballymun contingent a chance to prove themselves before the end of the league. Expect to see Dean Rock, McMahon and a few others playing a part. Not sure if James McCarthy is fit yet.

Joekers

Dubliner28 wrote: »

Thurles is an hour and a half away. What a load of nonsense.

I suppose you wanted it played in Parnell or Croker ??? :rolleyes:

No have it in Thurles but with a 3pm throw in

dcr22B

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Not sure if James McCarthy is fit yet.

Article in this morning's Indo reckons that he won't be risked.

but1er

dcr22B wrote: »

Article in this morning's Indo reckons that he won't be risked.

he was not even fit for kickems in the final!

Dublinfan

im wondering if Bernard will be back by the semis or rest him till the championship, give the two Brogan Brothers a joint return for the championship although they might need him for the semis or final

dcr22B

Dublinfan wrote: »

im wondering if Bernard will be back by the semis or rest him till the championship, give the two Brogan Brothers a joint return for the championship although they might need him for the semis or final

Bernard was only carrying a slight knock but I think we'll see some more experimentation in terms of personnel.

Dublinfan

dcr22B wrote: »

Bernard was only carrying a slight knock but I think we'll see some more experimentation in terms of personnel.

judging by some reports he wont be back this week anyway, what im wondering is dosent the team need to be cut down to 26 by the championship what if the total if you add in all the injured and returning ballymun players

im guessing its close to the 35 marks so who likely will be dropped

dcr22B

Dublinfan wrote: »

im guessing its close to the 35 marks so who likely will be dropped

I heard the panel was cut to 33 late last week.

Dublinfan

dcr22B wrote: »

I heard the panel was cut to 33 late last week.

any idea whos been cut?

ProudDUB

Doubt we'll see BB against Donegal. Why risk him in a pretty much meaningless game? Plus, Gavin will want to give some of the Ballymun lads a run out, Dean Rock in particular. I imagine we'll see him in the semi and the final if we make it that far. Unless his injury is more serious than first thought, I can't see Gavin resting him for the entire rest of the League campaign. He has already spoken about how playing so much this Spring is working wonders for his game. If he doesn't play until our first Champo game in June, he will not have played a game in nearly 3 months. Doubt if he or Gavin will want him out that long, lest rust build up on those magic shooting boots of his.

wazzer1

Dias is one, very harsh, and paddy quinn is the other.

ProudDUB

Thought Dias was quite impressive against Kerry. Scored a peach of a goal too if memory serves.

corny

ProudDUB wrote: »

Thought Dias was quite impressive against Kerry. Scored a peach of a goal too if memory serves.

He wasn't so good in the more recent games though. Looked slow (relatively) and sluggish to me.

DoctaDee

Yeah didn't see much this year from Dias to show that he'd play any meaningful part in set up. Surprised really coz I've seen a lot more that he has to offer.

I know we're looking at a cull of players at the moment, coupled with the Ballymun lads getting a run out - so there's a strict numbers game from now on ..... but I really would've liked to have seen Ted Furman get a chance to impress ... while a lot of the talk about Dean Rock is deserved I think Furman has a lot more to bring to the team in a wider football sense.

Stoner

Dias has not looked himself alright, his energy and speed are his biggest assets, I'm a fan but he has looked off the boil lately, not surprised.

ProudDUB

DoctaDee wrote: »

I really would've liked to have seen Ted Furman get a chance to impress ... while a lot of the talk about Dean Rock is deserved I think Furman has a lot more to bring to the team in a wider football sense.

It's too late for him imo & most of the Ballymun lads. It's ok for the likes of Phily Mc and James Mc who already have lots of Dubs experience. They can probably just fit back in where they left off for the most part. It's not so easy for the rest of the BK lads who are trying to stake a claim based largely on their recent club form.

There are only 2, maybe 3 game left before the Champo starts. It is too late to be bringing in a player who has little to no experience being in the inter county set up. If he played a position that we were sorely lacking strength in, due to injuries or retirements, sure, give him a a run out and see what he can do. But we have serious, serious strength in depth up front, it's almost an embarresment of riches.

It's time now to get the likely summer starting line up finally narrowed down, and motoring together, not bringing in totally untried and untested new players. It's very unfair on the Ballymun lads, especially the really talented ones like TF, but that's the price you pay for having the club finals so late in the year imo.

Stoner

I don't see the riches in that forward line at all, I like the new blood coming into the back line, and the way they are mixed up. I only saw two bk games and to be honest I saw very little evidence of anything fresh, that we didn't know about already for the senior team.
Dublin still struggled against Tyrone when Brogan was missing, the riches did not produce the goods.
I have missed the presence of O'Gara at 14, not everyones favourite player but he can change the dynamic of a game and I wished he was available against Tyrone.
Galvin has played over 40 guys do far, so I can't see why some new bk can't get a run before the championship. There is a spot for a different no 14 on that team, a game changer.