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Customs warning!
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31-01-2013 3:44pm#1
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Prosperous Dave wrote: »
Mods, perhaps a warning on green lasers as a sticky might prevent others from throwing good money away?
While I'm not a mod but,
* While it is unclear of the leaglity of using lasers on airsoft devices discusssion of it is allowed here with the understanding that actually doing so may be illegal. Only lasers that meet the following criteria are legal in Ireland:
- lasers of less than 5 milli Watts
- in the light frequencies of 630 to 680nm
Which means that all Blue and Green lasers (which are out side of light frequencies of 630 to 680nm) are illeagle and should not be discussed here.
^^^Taken from the charter
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Prosperous Dave wrote: »My last order from airsoft park was sent to Customs on the 21st January and I heard nothing since. So I finally got through today to probably the most ignorant eejit I've ever had the displeasure of talking to and the conversation went like this.......
"Hello, I'm just trying to track down a parcel that was sent to you on the 21st by An Post". I give him the tracking number and he comes back with:
"That parcel contained a green laser which is illegal in Ireland as it could bring down helicopters. You will be receiving a letter from the enforcement section. The entire parcel has been destroyed"
Cue me recovering from shock......"But that's news to me as I used to be an Air Traffic Controller and these parts were for a toy gun (excuse the slight on Airsoft but I didn't want to dig a deeper hole with this guy). There was a torch in the parcel too. Will I get that"
"The entire parcel has been destroyed. You'll get your letter tomorrow". Then he hangs up.
So that's me $120 down the drain with this "threatening letter" on the way. Jeez I only ordered the green laser as the red one was out of stock.
So to those who have posted lately about ordering stuff in from the far east and sneaking past Customs, be warned.
Tbh, I'm more angry about that clown and the way he spoke to me than I am at losing $120 worth of equipment.
Jesus what a balls, I knew there was a law regarding lasers but I though it only applied to the power of it not the colour.
File a complaint with them, if you feel wronged or mistreated, strong possibility it will fall on deaf ears but worth a punt, I'd plague them actually until I got something from them.
On a humourous side note to lighten the mood a bit, you were a air traffic controller?? that was pretty unexpected if you don't mind me saying, don't ask why
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http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/employment_and_social_policy/health_hygiene_safety_at_work/c11151_en.htm#KEY
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NEW-SKY-GREEN-BEAM-LASER-POINTER-PEN-1mW-532nm-/190545047449?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item2c5d5eaf99#ht_2632wt_1163
I have been terribly curious so I asked my Law lecturer and while there are EU directive (above) as it turns out there is no actual Statute that dictates a law on them other than speculation and mentioned "rumor" from past cases (my lecturers words not mine)
However according to laws that touch on the legality of lasers and such, I was told that the criteria for one is that it be a class 3b(?) and be under 5 milliwatts. The mention of colour or nm apparently has never come up according to my 50-60 year old lecturer/barrister. Now I don't want to throw caution to the wind saying what is legal and not , only what I have been told but even I and many others have searched to no avail other than this charter, site rules and what everyone else has been told.
I will investigate this further but as far as I am also aware, the whole parcel shouldn't have been destroyed either only the "illicit" good(s).. Just my 2 cents
Sorry about what happened Dave
--Armour0 -
Southern Dandy wrote: »
On a humourous side note to lighten the mood a bit, you were a air traffic controller?? that was pretty unexpected if you don't mind me saying, don't ask why
But I have to ask why? I was in ATC (a long time ago mind) but I'd still find it hard to believe that someone's aim would be so good that they could track an aircraft moving in excess of 100mph and keep a laser in a pilots eyes???Lil Armour wrote: »http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/employment_and_social_policy/health_hygiene_safety_at_work/c11151_en.htm#KEY
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NEW-SKY-GREEN-BEAM-LASER-POINTER-PEN-1mW-532nm-/190545047449?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item2c5d5eaf99#ht_2632wt_1163
I have been terribly curious so I asked my Law lecturer and while there are EU directive (above) as it turns out there is no actual Statute that dictates a law on them other than speculation and mentioned "rumor" from past cases (my lecturers words not mine)
However according to laws that touch on the legality of lasers and such, I was told that the criteria for one is that it be a class 3b(?) and be under 5 milliwatts. The mention of colour or nm apparently has never come up according to my 50-60 year old lecturer/barrister. Now I don't want to throw caution to the wind saying what is legal and not , only what I have been told but even I and many others have searched to no avail other than this charter, site rules and what everyone else has been told.
I will investigate this further but as far as I am also aware, the whole parcel shouldn't have been destroyed either only the "illicit" good(s).. Just my 2 cents
Sorry about what happened Dave
--Armour
Cheers mate. Appreciate you taking the time to look into this.
I spent the afternoon on the Revenue.ie website and I couldn't find any mention of lasers, green, red or pink with blue spots for that matter. If a green laser is against Irish law, then so be it. Tough luck on my part but I'd like to see it in writing first, before they consign my order to the bin, crusher, furnace, etc.
I'd also like to know if they can in fact destroy the entire order, even my innocuous torch, or is that a lethal weapon too??0 -
Lil Armour wrote: »http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/employment_and_social_policy/health_hygiene_safety_at_work/c11151_en.htm#KEY
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NEW-SKY-GREEN-BEAM-LASER-POINTER-PEN-1mW-532nm-/190545047449?pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item2c5d5eaf99#ht_2632wt_1163
I have been terribly curious so I asked my Law lecturer and while there are EU directive (above) as it turns out there is no actual Statute that dictates a law on them other than speculation and mentioned "rumor" from past cases (my lecturers words not mine)
However according to laws that touch on the legality of lasers and such, I was told that the criteria for one is that it be a class 3b(?) and be under 5 milliwatts. The mention of colour or nm apparently has never come up according to my 50-60 year old lecturer/barrister. Now I don't want to throw caution to the wind saying what is legal and not , only what I have been told but even I and many others have searched to no avail other than this charter, site rules and what everyone else has been told.
I will investigate this further but as far as I am also aware, the whole parcel shouldn't have been destroyed either only the "illicit" good(s).. Just my 2 cents
Sorry about what happened Dave
--Armour
Quote of a post I made recently explaining it;The DOJ gave the IAA limits of 5 mW, 630 to
680nm a few years ago when asked about it.
Link to article
The amendment to Section 1(d) of the 1925 Firearms
Act they mention is from the 2006 Criminal Justice Act which changed the definition of a firearm to include
“ firearm ” means—
[...]
(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission.
They always destroy the whole package if there is an offending item in it, it encourages you to avoid such items.0 -
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Prosperous Dave wrote: »But I have to ask why?
Nah no reason really
, It's just a occupation that you don't particularly hear much of, pretty cool all the same.
I know what you mean, to be honest it was a ridiculous excuse that he gave you. Sad case of affairs that the whole package was destroyed, it would be more of a deterrent to destroy the one offending item rather than the lot in my opinion. And now you more than likely will suffer paranoia every time you make an order abroad, which makes the waiting for a soddin package more of a pain.0 -
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Sigh...
Laser legality is not by its colour, but by its power, or whatever the ****. Its lazy to assume a green laser is illegal.
I have had green lasers that were 100% legal.
There is a customer services contact number for customers where you can go through a process to raise distress at poor service, or packages wrongfully destroyed to which you can claim. I had a 1911 pistol taken on me a few years back and when I eventually got it, six months after order, it was in a horrible state, used and worn. I went through this process, calmly and with a good amount of documented receipts and proof, and received the cost of the purchase back in full and an apology.
If you dont do anything, dont expect anything
And if your an IAA member, this is the sort of thing they can help you with, along with opening dialogue with customs, through avenues that have been there for years. Was actually the IAA who sorted out my pistol lark in truth. But sure they don't do anything for anyone :rolleyes:0 -
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As it turns out. under the Criminal Justice act (I finally found it !!!)“(1) In this Act—
“ ammunition ” (except where used in relation to a prohibited weapon) means ammunition for a firearm and includes—
(a) grenades, bombs and other similar missiles, whether or not capable of being used with a firearm,
(b) any ingredient or component part of any such ammunition or missile, and
(c) restricted ammunition, unless the context otherwise requires;
“ Commissioner ” means the Commissioner of the Garda Síochána or a member of the Garda Síochána, or members of a particular rank in the Garda Síochána, not below the rank of superintendent appointed in writing by the Commissioner for the purpose of performing any of the Commissioner’s functions under this Act;
“ firearm ” means—
(a) a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged,
(b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy,
(c) a crossbow,
(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission,
(e) a prohibited weapon,
(f) any article which would be a firearm under any of the foregoing paragraphs but for the fact that, owing to the lack of a necessary component part or parts, or to any other defect or condition, it is incapable of discharging a shot, bullet or other missile or projectile or of causing a shock or other disablement, as the case may be,
(g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),
(ii) a silencer designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b) or (e), and
(iii) any object—
(I) manufactured for use as a component in connection with the operation of a firearm, and
(II) without which it could not function as originally designed,
and
(h) a device capable of discharging blank ammunition and to be used as a starting gun or blank firing gun,
As you can see lasers aren't telescopic sights. Don't use infra-red. Taken from http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0026/print.html#sec8
Definition of laser: "A laser is a device that emits light (electromagnetic radiation) through a process of optical amplification based on the stimulated emission of photons."
Definition of infra-red: "Infrared (IR) light is electromagnetic radiation with longer wavelengths than those of visible light, extending from the nominal red edge of the visible spectrum at 0.74 micrometres (µm) to 0.3 mm"
Under their definitions: a laser of green, red or blue is beneath 700 nm. An infra-red device is above 700 nm.
Now this is indicates that (ignoring the IAA and what DOJ issued them.) IF you never came across Boards.ie and armed only with the knowledge that lasers are legal (take a look at concerts, clubs etc. Lasers of all colours.) not only that they technically aren't infra-red. Also! Buying from Irish/foreign retailers (a loop hole) that sell different colour lasers, they aren't designed to be mounted on actual firearms (above 1 joule). So my understanding is no law is broken with these lasers and further-more there is no Statute in Irish law to dictate it or airsoft. To top that that off, Acts in Ireland, under it's constitution need to be consented to in a court of law. I.E if two men wnat to fight and neither man wants to press charges, no consent. Neither man has to abide by that law as long as their circumstance is their only.
To conclude: Customs were wrong, and unless there is a written law for it than by interpretation of the Criminal Justice Act of 2006 and it's alteration in 2009, your package shouldn't be destroyed and unless a Garda, or sight owner doesn't allow their use, you technically should be able to use lasers of any colour (brown if wanted)
By the way I got in contact with a few sources that were able to contact me and this was the information after being investigated in Irish legislation
Let's just say these people defined some laws in thier time :P
--Armour0 -
Also to add to the above, if this were to be taken heavily into account, wouldn't either ALL mountable lasers be "banned" or ALL mountable lasers be "allowed" as it mentions nothing of mW or nM? Taking this into account it seems as if vagueness and lack of description has left a rather big hole in the system. It seems colour is only ever mentioned by Boards, the IAA, customs(?) (they probably got their info from boards. I only say this because the DOJ can only agree on what a law will become, they can't enforce it. Only a Judge can in a court of law. Taken straight from the CJA 2006. Boo-ya!
--Armour enjoy
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