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Landlord retaining deposit

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    #32
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    dissed doc wrote: »
    House needs to be professionally cleaned and also repainted. Professional cleaning is standard in the UK and repainting is also standard on the continent. Always paid for by the tenant.

    Seems reasonable to me. You put the property back into the order it was when you moved in, and you pay for any damages.

    God help anyone who has you as a tenant!!
    deman wrote: »
    You know this for a fact do you? I've rented three different places here in Finland and have never had them cleaned or painted professionally. I handed in the keys knowing that I cleaned up as well as I could and have always got my deposit back in full.

    Where are your facts?

    His UK claim is incorrect as well. No place we've moved into has been professionally cleaned, 1 place wasn't clean at all. The good thing here though is that our deposit is held by an independent 3rd party who do the inspection.

    As for nails in walls, I would expect to fix/pay for those


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    #33
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    TheBigKahuna wrote: »
    The paintwork damage is quite literally a 1 inch high square. I don't see why I should be expected to essentially redecorate the room for what is just a tiny mark. It should be completely within the scope of a "respectable human being" to allow for such inconsequential marks. Are you saying that after a years occupancy, the house should be untouched? If so, then you live with unrealistic expect

    If you damaged the paintwork then the landlord is well within their rights to deduct from the deposit in order to have the damage repaired. You mightnt like it, but thats the law. Any damage beyond normal wear and tear is deducable. Pulling sections of paint off a wall when removing stuck on hooks is beyond normal wear and tear.

    The cleaning is the issue I would be fighting them on. You would have left the place in an absolute pigsty to warrant professional cleaning, so if you have photographic evidence that shows that this is not the case then fight them on it. Take a case with the PRTB if necessary.


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    #34
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    djimi wrote: »
    If you damaged the paintwork then the landlord is well within their rights to deduct from the deposit in order to have the damage repaired. You mightnt like it, but thats the law. Any damage beyond normal wear and tear is deducable. Pulling sections of paint off a wall when removing stuck on hooks is beyond normal wear and tear.

    The cleaning is the issue I would be fighting them on. You would have left the place in an absolute pigsty to warrant professional cleaning, so if you have photographic evidence that shows that this is not the case then fight them on it. Take a case with the PRTB if necessary.

    Totally agree with Djimi. Deduction to repaint for the marks on the wall from hanging pictures is absolutly a reasonable deduction regardless of the size.

    Deduction for cleaning is not.


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    #35
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    s20101938 wrote: »
    As long as 90% of the government are landlords themselves, tenants will always have minimum real rights in this farce of a country.

    Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

    Tenants have 100% of the rights, LL's have none.

    You know nothing of current tenant/landlord law if you think tenants have no rights.

    Do you know how long it takes to evict a tenant who is not paying rent?
    Here's a hint, the average time is 11 months.


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    #36
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    TheBigKahuna wrote: »
    The paintwork damage is quite literally a 1 inch high square. I don't see why I should be expected to essentially redecorate the room for what is just a tiny mark.

    How do you propose the LL fixes the paint you damaged?

    Do you know that if you touch up paint spots on a wall that hasn't been painted in a while you will never match the colour?
    Why should the LL pay because you damaged your wall with your stupid hooks?

    Why should the next tenant have to have chipped walls because you didn't give a toss about damaging them?

    Try growing up and taking responsibility for your actions.


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    #37
    Mr.Wemmick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,092 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    the world wonders wrote: »
    You shouldn't really judge landlords in general based on this forum, remember that people only start threads here when they are asking for help with a problem so it is a very biased sample.

    Maybe I have been lucky but I have never paid for repainting or professional cleaning and never had problems getting my entire deposit back. I would not use the deposit as last month's rent unless I had specific grounds to believe that the landlord would try to keep it illegally. Recommending that tenants do that in all circumstances isn't really fair to the good landlords out there.Agreed, the OP may have to give some ground on this one.

    Landlords should not have the deposit in their possession, it doesn't belong to them, so whether they are fair or not, makes no difference. The good tenant has very little choice if the LL does not want to give the deposit back, end of. The system as it stands is wholly weighted in favour of the LL and not tenant - it's an unfair system so really I do not feel much for Landlords out there when they can charge whatever they like, do repairs only when they see fit, withold money based on all sorts on subjective opinions, and on and on it goes.. the onus, hassle and stress are all on the tenant to get the the LL to do the right thing.

    I think Boards is a fair representation of what goes on.. and my awareness of tenant's rights is not just on boards alone but also what I have experienced as a student, and heard over the years from friends, relatives. After renting in quite a few countries, the irish rental system really is backward and wholly unfair on the tenant.

    OP - I would no longer entertain conversations with your LL and only communicate with her now through registered letters.
    Get on to the PRTB and start letting her know what's what. If she wants to keep your deposit she has to prove to you and the PRTB exactly why - you need to officially hassle her back now. Good luck!


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    #38
    TheBandicoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭TheBandicoot


    I'm neither a landlord nor a tenant, but trying to become a tenant. If I want to brings some of my pictures and canvas prints and hang them up so the place atually feels like my home, what exactly should I do? Ray Palmer?


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    #39
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    TheBandicoot wrote: »
    I'm neither a landlord nor a tenant, but trying to become a tenant. If I want to brings some of my pictures and canvas prints and hang them up so the place atually feels like my home, what exactly should I do? Ray Palmer?

    Do what we did. Ask the landlord for permission. But be prepared to repair any damage to the paintwork...


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    #40
    TheBigKahuna
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭TheBigKahuna


    delthedriver wrote: »

    Why was the landlady threatening you with eviction before Christmas? Am I missing something here. Is there another issue going on in the background?

    Missing info there is that we had a convection heater in the house, just to heat the room quicker on cold evenings as the electric heating was pitifully slow. She claimed this was a fire hazard and that she had no choice but to give us 7 Days notice. Oh,and we left the Christmas lights on one day too - something I'm not sure we did. With no warning, or attempt to come to an agreement she immediately threatened eviction. I think she came to her senses and realised it was illegal as we never got any notice.


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    #41
    TheBigKahuna
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭TheBigKahuna


    Solair wrote: »
    To be fair though, you should probably have repainted / offered to have the wall repainted where the large lumps of paint came off. Sticking things to the wall wouldn't really be normal damage caused by wear and tear.

    Retaining the whole deposit would be unreasonable though, it's unlikely to be that expensive to paint.

    I can live with getting the room painted, even though she says she can only use expensive paint at €40 a tin. I offered to fix anything today but to no interest. IT was hard to listen to her, she said we were obviously used to living in filth.


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    #42
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    TheBandicoot wrote: »
    I'm neither a landlord nor a tenant, but trying to become a tenant. If I want to brings some of my pictures and canvas prints and hang them up so the place atually feels like my home, what exactly should I do? Ray Palmer?

    There are little hooks that you can get that are held in with tiny little pins that leave very tiny holes, but that are very strong. Our landlord didnt have an issue with them, provided we put them in parts of the wall where pictures would normally go, and we didnt go overboard.

    Whatever you do, you need to run it by the landlord first (in writing if possible). Its a lot harder for the landlord to complain about something that they consented to.


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    #43
    TheBigKahuna
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭TheBigKahuna


    Pkiernan wrote: »

    How do you propose the LL fixes the paint you damaged?

    Do you know that if you touch up paint spots on a wall that hasn't been painted in a while you will never match the colour?
    Why should the LL pay because you damaged your wall with your stupid hooks?

    Why should the next tenant have to have chipped walls because you didn't give a toss about damaging them?

    Try growing up and taking responsibility for your actions.

    Stupid hooks? How dare you insult the hooks' intelligence - how do you know their IQ? i've done enough growing up to not take seriously the mad ramblings of someone who, instead of asking questions and waiting for answers, goes straight to accusations. Not this poster of course, the landlord I mean.


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    #44
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    TheBigKahuna wrote: »
    Stupid hooks? How dare you insult the hooks' intelligence - how do you know their IQ? i've done enough growing up to not take seriously the mad ramblings of someone who, instead of asking questions and waiting for answers, goes straight to accusations. Not this poster of course, the landlord I mean.

    Whatever the landlord might have ranted or rambled about, if it is as you described it then they are right about the hooks. You have battles that you can fight; the marks from the hooks are not one of them.


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    #45
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    I sincerely hope the landlord in question is reading the thread this pm, and take time over the weekend to reflect on her position.

    The Op, tenant appears to be very reasonable to deal with. Her property has been returned in what appears to be the same condition as she originally leased it to the tenant.

    The tenant has not trashed the place, has not broken the furnishings,electrical appliances, bathroom fittings etc. a lot to be grateful for. I am not suggesting for one moment that the Op would behave in this fashion.

    Having been both a tenant and landlord I have seen both sides of the fence. I have seen as a landlord the extreme situation where a property rented through a reputable letting agency, which vacated leaving rent unpaid and close to € 10k worth of damage including the removal of 2 skips of rubbish left behind.As for seeking redress thought the PRTB......no point impossible to get The costs back from someone who has disappeared! As for the letting agent, simply shrugged shoulders. Life goes on and one chalks this down as an experience..

    There are good landlords and good tenants. If the landlord in this case is falling out over a few picture hooks she needs to cop on to herself, and return the deposit to the tenant as it is rightfully theirs. Life is too short for this messing.!


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    #46
    TheBigKahuna
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭TheBigKahuna


    delthedriver wrote: »
    I sincerely hope the landlord in question is reading the thread this pm, and take time over the weekend to reflect on her position.

    The Op, tenant appears to be very reasonable to deal with. Her property has been returned in what appears to be the same condition as she originally leased it to the tenant.

    The tenant has not trashed the place, has not broken the furnishings,electrical appliances, bathroom fittings etc. a lot to be grateful for. I am not suggesting for one moment that the Op would behave in this fashion.

    Having been both a tenant and landlord I have seen both sides of the fence. I have seen as a landlord the extreme situation where a property rented through a reputable letting agency, which vacated leaving rent unpaid and close to € 10k worth of damage including the removal of 2 skips of rubbish left behind.As for seeking redress thought the PRTB......no point impossible to get The costs back from someone who has disappeared! As for the letting agent, simply shrugged shoulders. Life goes on and one chalks this down as an experience..

    There are good landlords and good tenants. If the landlord in this case is falling out over a few picture hooks she needs to cop on to herself, and return the deposit to the tenant as it is rightfully theirs. Life is too short for this messing.!

    Agreed, I'm honestly don't want to go to the PRTB but after the treatment i've gotten I feel i've no choice. All I want is a quiet life.i'll accept the re-painting issue, although 40 quid paint seems excessive, if it means a quick resolution but I'm not accepting the "living in filth" statement she proclaimed. As an interesting sidebar, the current rent she is looking for is €300 more than I was paying, and that house was the most expensive in the town as it was.


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    #47
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    TheBigKahuna wrote: »
    Agreed, I'm honestly don't want to go to the PRTB but after the treatment i've gotten I feel i've no choice. All I want is a quiet life.i'll accept the re-painting issue, although 40 quid paint seems excessive, if it means a quick resolution but I'm not accepting the "living in filth" statement she proclaimed. As an interesting sidebar, the current rent she is looking for is €300 more than I was paying, and that house was the most expensive in the town as it was.

    Gosh, a €300 rent increase! Is the demand that great in your area? Is she realistic? Could she end up with an unoccupied property for a while?


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    #48
    TheBigKahuna
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭TheBigKahuna


    delthedriver wrote: »

    Gosh, a €300 rent increase! Is the demand that great in your area? Is she realistic? Could she end up with an unoccupied property for a while?

    Completely unrealistic, 3 bed semi detached in the country. Nobody came to visit in the 8 weeks prior to our leaving, it'll be hard to find anyone willing to pay Dublin prices 35 miles from Dublin.


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    #49
    TheBigKahuna
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭TheBigKahuna


    Thanks everyone for your opinions on this thread. It's good to get both sides, it's been helpful.


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    #50
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    djimi wrote: »

    There are little hooks that you can get that are held in with tiny little pins that leave very tiny holes, but that are very strong. Our landlord didnt have an issue with them, provided we put them in parts of the wall where pictures would normally go, and we didnt go overboard.

    Whatever you do, you need to run it by the landlord first (in writing if possible). Its a lot harder for the landlord to complain about something that they consented to.
    No no no. They are as bad as the sticky on hooks and can take half the plaster with them when they come off. I would rather a nail than those evil hooks, at least a nail can be taken out easily with a claw hammer.

    Hang pictures like everyone does, with a drill and screw.


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    #51
    QuiteInterestin
    Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭QuiteInterestin


    Probably a bit off topic, but I used these in my last rental and found they didn't remove any paint from the wall (just left a small shiny spot, only visible from certain angles, where you have to rub the surface with 70% alcohol before applying the sticky strip).
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-Command-Hooks-Value-Pack/dp/B000FSORW4/ref=sr_1_4?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1359849697&sr=1-4
    I also used similar strips for hanging posters and they only took a small piece of paint off, and that was my own fault as I forgot one of the strips was there when I was removing the poster (also the paint was pretty cheap quality with no undercoat). Thankfully my walls were magnolia so I was able to touch it up with a tester pot and the colours were such a good match it took me a while to find it to give it a second coat.


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    #52
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    TheBigKahuna wrote: »
    Completely unrealistic, 3 bed semi detached in the country. Nobody came to visit in the 8 weeks prior to our leaving, it'll be hard to find anyone willing to pay Dublin prices 35 miles from Dublin.

    Perhaps the landlord is planning on selling the property and therefore wanted the property vacated. Her strategy of increasing the rent by €300 pm makes no sense at all.

    Keep us posted


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    #53
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Landlords really should avoid problems like this by providing picture hooks on each wall in an appropriate place and just including a line in the lease that you should use these to hang any pictures.

    They take about ten minutes to put up and cost cents!

    You can put them up almost invisibly too.

    Also, it's possible that someone might nail through a cable in the plaster too.

    As for tenants. You're better off to use those picture hooks with multiple tiny pins. They're hammered in gently and can be carefully removed only leaving tiny pin marks that are invisible.

    Also it's not a good idea to remove them at all. Most landlords would rather have an extra picture hook than a large lump of paint or plaster removed!

    Most won't even notice / remember they didn't have that hook.

    Sticky hooks are invariably a disaster as they're hanging on the paint!


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    #54
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    Op, I might be just speculating, but based on the fact that she has been trying to get you out for the last month or so by claiming you have breached the lease (ie fire hazard) and now she wants to hold deposit for minimal things... She has your deposit well spent and had no intention of giving it back to you. She has just been looking for "plausible" excuses not to return it to you. She doesn't have it!
    Give up trying to deal with her and go to PRTB.


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    #55
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    I'd question her as to why the electrical systems was incapable of supporting a normal 13amp load (heater) without causing a fire hazard :)


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    #56
    housetypeb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    Solair wrote: »
    I'd question her as to why the electrical systems was incapable of supporting a normal 13amp load (heater) without causing a fire hazard :)

    How did she know you were using it in the first place?


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    #57
    QuiteInterestin
    Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭QuiteInterestin


    housetypeb wrote: »
    How did she know you were using it in the first place?

    +1, also how did she know the Christmas lights were left on when there was no one home? Does she live nearby or pass by the house alot? Or worse, is she entering it while your not at home?


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    #58
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    StillWaters wrote: »
    No no no. They are as bad as the sticky on hooks and can take half the plaster with them when they come off. I would rather a nail than those evil hooks, at least a nail can be taken out easily with a claw hammer.

    Hang pictures like everyone does, with a drill and screw.
    QuiteInterestin wrote: »
    Probably a bit off topic, but I used these in my last rental and found they didn't remove any paint from the wall (just left a small shiny spot, only visible from certain angles, where you have to rub the surface with 70% alcohol before applying the sticky strip).
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-Command-Hooks-Value-Pack/dp/B000FSORW4/ref=sr_1_4?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1359849697&sr=1-4
    I also used similar strips for hanging posters and they only took a small piece of paint off, and that was my own fault as I forgot one of the strips was there when I was removing the poster (also the paint was pretty cheap quality with no undercoat). Thankfully my walls were magnolia so I was able to touch it up with a tester pot and the colours were such a good match it took me a while to find it to give it a second coat.

    Im sorry, I think Im after getting completely mixed up. It was those sticky ones that we used (or something like it that come off easily and dont leave a mark). I have used the ones with the small pins in the past and I have to say I found they did very little damage when being taken out, but I can see how they could cause a problem to soft/loose plaster.


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    #59
    Chain_reaction
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Chain_reaction


    dissed doc wrote: »
    House needs to be professionally cleaned and also repainted. Professional cleaning is standard in the UK and repainting is also standard on the continent. Always paid for by the tenant.

    We're in Ireland though.


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    #60
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Chain_reaction wrote: »

    We're in Ireland though.

    That and the statement is simply not accurate either... :-)


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    #61
    TheBigKahuna
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭TheBigKahuna


    QuiteInterestin wrote: »

    +1, also how did she know the Christmas lights were left on when there was no one home? Does she live nearby or pass by the house alot? Or worse, is she entering it while your not at home?

    Her husband, who does the maintenance, had my permission to enter with an Eircom technician to fix the alarm. Anyway, if these were such a fire hazard, why are Woodies selling them by the pallet load??? I doubt us having it warranted a 7 day eviction threat!


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