Parking Buses at Bus Stops?

miller50841

Sure Foogy lad you would fit a bus through there:p

From what I have seen you posting and the threads you do start it seems to me that you have a real problem with anything to do with transport.

Or is it you really really like buses and trains?

Have you ever driven a large vehicle and do you realise they are nowhere near as easy to drive or park as a car especially with no proper designed bus stops or parking spaces and I dont just mean at Connolly.

Why dont you start going after the dangerous driving taxi drivers around the city and the way they feel free to pull in, jam on the brakes where ever they want, pull across 3-5 lanes without any regard to any other road users and park/wait where ever they like etc etc....

GTE

Given the width of the 04 coach and distance left to the barrier there the only problem is where the white CIE tours bus is positioned just behind.

Speculation can only result about the intentions of that bus so that is that :-)

parsi

KD345 wrote: »

There does appear to be a relaxed attitude to this. You only have to look at the amount of empty tour buses which park on major streets to sell tickets. Every weekend there is a bus parked on O'Connell Street blocking the view of traffic emerging from Sackville Place and preventing the 11 and 122 from parking safely at their stop. There is also a tour bus parked on Lower Grafton Street, opposite the parked line of taxis waiting to enter their rank, while blocking access to the busy 4 and 7 stop. Another bus is usually parked on College Green blocking the 49 and 65 stop. These are a mixture of Dualway and Dublin Bus vehicles. The fact that this has been allowed to continue just highlights the lack of enforcement in this area.

You can only criticise the Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus vehicles. The ones that don't accept free travel are exempt from this criticism...

TBH I'd sooner excuse a service bus (of any operator) from dodgy parking than a private car or taxi - at least the bus is serving the needs of many rather than the few.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

You should really consider getting an eyesight test. I certainly wouldnt want you driving any vehicle I was in or going to board, I could be swept off the kerb if that is your perception of distances.

Look clearly at the picture as it clearly shows the position of the bus in relation to the kerb outside busáras and the luas barrier. There is another bus between the waterford bus and the kerb which is hidden by the waterford bus and there is only about 4 feet between the waterford bus and the luas barrier which is certainly not enough room for another bus to pass.

Your repetitive posts are just meaningless at this stage and just because you state the same nonsense over and over wont change the facts.

Put up a head on shot taken from around the garda station and you would get a better view of the situation.

Is there a chance that you can be less abusive Foggy?

KD345

parsi wrote: »

You can only criticise the Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus vehicles. The ones that don't accept free travel are exempt from this criticism...

I don't follow. Can you explain more?

Hilly Bill

KD345 wrote: »

I don't follow. Can you explain more?

He is on about the OP.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Put up a head on shot taken from around the garda station and you would get a better view of the situation.

Is there a chance that you can be less abusive Foggy?

I was in a position to view the situation and have said already that the two buses behind as well as several others blocked into Busáras were unable to pass the Waterford bus which was picking up passengers out in the traffic lane on Store Street. This Waterford bus was not stopped in the bus stop area at all as there was another parked bus between it and the kerb.

I have not been abusive and if you still feel I have been abusive towards you then feel free to report the post and let the moderators view the abuse.

Vahevala

I get the bus home from Parnell Square (Dublin) and I get sick to the back teeth of parked up Dublin Buses on the side of the square, it makes it so hard to get the bus there at times :mad:

At some points, you have to stand in the middle of the road to see if your bus is coming. Makes me so mad and how this is allowed to go on is beyond me. :rolleyes:

On another point of view, I am sick of those constantly having a go at Foggy Lad on here. Attack the post not the poster... or has that rule been ignored on here?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

I was in a position to view the situation and have said already that the two buses behind as well as several others blocked into Busáras were unable to pass the Waterford bus which was picking up passengers out in the traffic lane on Store Street. This Waterford bus was not stopped in the bus stop area at all as there was another parked bus between it and the kerb.

I have not been abusive and if you still feel I have been abusive towards you then feel free to report the post and let the moderators view the abuse.

What you havent said is how long the bus took to load and then move off.Why didnt you take a head on shot to give a true account . sometimes things look differently from a different angle. Anyway, i thought you was a fan of the buses. At least you dont get that problem with the trains

I have done so already.

Hilly Bill

Vahevala wrote: »

I get the bus home from Parnell Square (Dublin) and I get sick to the back teeth of parked up Dublin Buses on the side of the square, it makes it so hard to get the bus there at times :mad:

At some points, you have to stand in the middle of the road to see if your bus is coming. Makes me so mad and how this is allowed to go on is beyond me. :rolleyes:

On another point of view, I am sick of those constantly having a go at Foggy Lad on there. Attack the post not the poster... or has that rule been ignored on here?

I give up.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What you havent said is how long the bus took to load and then move off. Anyway, i thought you was a fan of the buses. At least you dont get that problem with the trains

I have done so already.

My apologies for neglecting to mention that, it took about 10 minutes plus a few more as the bus could not leave until 5.30pm 7.45pm.

I'm not having a go at the driver of that bus who was only doing his job, the company and its management and inspectors are responsible for the proper management of vehicles parked at Busáras as well as buses pulling in to drop off or board passengers.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

My apologies for neglecting to mention that, it took about 10 minutes plus a few more as the bus could not leave until 5.30pm.

I'm not having a go at the driver of that bus who was only doing his job, the company and its management and inspectors are responsible for the proper management of vehicles parked at Busáras as well as buses pulling in to drop off or board passengers.

What time was it meant to leave at?

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What time was it meant to leave at?

Sorry it was the 7.45pm bus not the 5.30 one, but they usually arrive from the Airport 10-20 minutes before the departure time.

Even Google Maps shows that there is not enough room for three buses or even three cars across this street because of the Luas barrier

http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&ll=53.349905,-6.251063&spn=0.000418,0.00071&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=53.349905,-6.251063&panoid=mc969DRw_yKCU1Zb5RJMxA&cbp=12,295.67,,0,8.4

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

I was in a position to view the situation and have said already that the two buses behind as well as several others blocked into Busáras were unable to pass the Waterford bus which was picking up passengers out in the traffic lane on Store Street. This Waterford bus was not stopped in the bus stop area at all as there was another parked bus between it and the kerb.

Foggy,you and most posters here are well aware that BusArás has been operating well betond it's peak-time capacity for some 20 years now.

Yet,In your well documented travels throughout the country,observing and criticising CIE staff everywhere you continually appear to believe that Platform Staff and the likes of the BusArás controller can perform Magic Tricks.

The BusArás Controller cannot magick-up either vehicles or space to address every eventuality.

Since somebody decided to superimpose two LRT tracks and a Tram Stop directly atop the Capital City's ONLY purpose built Bus Station,it was always going to be thus.

Added to this,the same somebody also decides to remove the Connolly Station Ramp,which was as integral a part of peak-time operations at BusArás as the booking-office iteslf.

Then we have the coincidental issue of the "normal" traffic circulation around BusArás itself which scarcely sees a day pass without an "incident" of some sort causing disruption.

Reality,Foggy,tells most reasonable folk that BusArás controllers are doing a fantastic job,with sweet Flúich All assistance from any other Civic Agency,in getting so many departures (and arrivals) completed on time at all.

I have no doubt but sticking YOU in the Crows Nest at BusArás and allowing you free rein to do your best would somehow or other result in a transformation of Swiss Railway proportions,but until this can be arranged,how about just givin it a rest for a while ...voluntarily ?

PS. A little while before Christmas,at about the same time frame as Foggy's "Grassy-Knoll" photos were taken,I was waiting for a tram and had the opportunity,along with many others to witness some of what Foggy tends to blind-eye.

A young lady in a Suzuki Jeep,swings into Store St at some speed and anchors up just past the Exit.

Cue a fully laden SP exiting BusArás,a manouvere which requires every mm of available roadspace.

The Coach Driver gingerly moves out,fully expecting our Lady friend to notice the SP's presence and move away.....

Our young lady (on the phone) glances over her shoulder,GETS OUT,SHUTS THE DOOR AND MAKES TO WALK OFF !!!......Thankfully the sound of other buses Horns being sounded coupled with people shouting at her from the pavement,managed to penetrate whatever material was packed into her cranuim,to the extent that she reluctantly returned to her vehicle and moved it forward JUST ENOUGH to allow the SP to squeeze past.

Having moved it,she repeats the procedure and sashays merrily away into STORE STREET GARDA STATION :eek: ,leaving her Jeep inside pretty much the same spot where Foggy captures the 104 .....Sadly Foggy was'nt in place that evenin,or if he was,he chose to ignore the incident,as it did'nt feature a CIE Staff Member Jackbooting a poor helpless member of the community...ah well,perhaps another time then ?

markpb

AlekSmart wrote: »

Added to this,the same somebody also decides to remove the Connolly Station Ramp,which was as integral a part of peak-time operations at BusArás as the booking-office iteslf.

For those of us who don't remember that, how did it work? I mean how was it used by Bus Eireann?

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

For those of us who don't remember that, how did it work? I mean how was it used by Bus Eireann?

Put simply,it was used as a holding bay for vehicles,either on breaks or as "helps" for fully subscribed departures.

Main advantage was it was close to the point of requirement,and whilst not perfect,it was quite efficient in a belt'n braces kinda way.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart I am well aware of the illegal parking going on all around the city but that is an issue for the Gardai while the illegal parking by mostly Bus Éireann buses is something which should be addressed first by Bus Éireann and the NTA before the Gardai become involved.

kyle123

I get that I can be dangerous for people crossing roads and such. But it's a city centre with limited space. All the garages, bus aras were designed and built ling before his and don't have tge capacity for current size and amount if busses.
What's the alternative? Have busses circling the city if there early causing more traffic and wasting money in diesel, and if the bus is late then you have more complaints. Put money into new areas and better stops and park areas? We all know thats not going to happen.
The drivers do the best they can with what they have. They can't work miracles and pull space from nowhere. And you shouldn't penalize a driver with points or tickets because the space simply isn't there.
Also other road users don't be much better at times. It's just more noticeable when it's a bus.

Summerhill isn't that big so I dont see that idea if parking bus,eireann busses there, I'd imagine insurance and whatever wud stop that.

monument

I'm sick with a strong dose of the flu so it's talking a bit to post this:

Everybody -- please behave and tone it down a notch or two.

Please be aware you should attack the point and not the poster.

Also note that a strongly held view is not the same as trolling. If you can't put up with a poster please don't read their threads and think about putting them on your ignore list.

There will be banning soon if this keeps up.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST.

trad

1st Point

The Rules of the Road are not Law, they are merely guidelines and suggestions made my Civil Servants.

2nd Point.

The real law on the matter
(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—
( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.
Source http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a36
Section 36.2.j

foggy_lad

trad wrote: »

1st Point

The Rules of the Road are not Law, they are merely guidelines and suggestions made my Civil Servants.

2nd Point.

The real law on the matter
(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—
( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.
Source http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a36
Section 36.2.j

The problem there is that although parked legally at a bus stop a garda can easily decide that the bus is dangerously parked....

Dangerous parking

If you park in a way that is likely to cause danger to other road users, for example, if it forces a pedestrian out onto the roadway, a Garda can decide that this is dangerous parking and prosecute you. If you are convicted of this offence, you will receive five penalty points.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

AlekSmart I am well aware of the illegal parking going on all around the city but that is an issue for the Gardai while the illegal parking by mostly Bus Éireann buses is something which should be addressed first by Bus Éireann and the NTA before the Gardai become involved.

You may well be "Aware" of all this illegality Foggy,however,yet again,you immediately launch into Bus Éireann on somewhat dubious allegations of illegality.

The poster "trad" outlines the actual wording of the Law,which in the circumstances is worth underlining once more....

The real law on the matter
(2) A vehicle shall not be parked—
( l ) where traffic sign RUS 031 [bus stop] or RRM 030 [stopping place or stand] has been provided unless the vehicle is an omnibus.
Source http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a36
Section 36.2.j

I'm suggesting the words "Unless the vehicle is an Omnibus" are of relevance here,as well as the word "Parked".

I fully concur that none of the relevant agencies (Gardai,Dublin City Council,NTA) appear to give a fiddlers about these laws when they are broken with some vengeance each day at the O'Connell St/Sackville Place junction by the Red Bus Tour company,whose actual Stop 1A,is located on Abbey Street.

Perhaps a Photographic voyage by Foggy_Lad to the Front of Clerys might be of equal Public Service ....?

Talk to the hand

foggy_lad wrote: »

The problem there is that although parked legally at a bus stop a garda can easily decide that the bus is dangerously parked....

With respect that's pure fantasy. Bus Aras has been next door to Store St Garda Station since it was opened. I'm not aware of any ticketing operation of buses by Gardai unless AlekSmart knows otherwise?

trad

Hop up to the environs of Pearse Street Garda Station of you really want to see bad parking.

cast_iron

foggy_lad wrote: »

The problem there is that although parked legally at a bus stop a garda can easily decide that the bus is dangerously parked....

How is that "a problem"?

Quite simply, there is very little danger in the case you presented. You have argued (quite correctly, I think) to the death that traffic is being blocked from behind and that another bus is parked on the inside. By definition, I would say that effectively eliminates all "danger", as no traffic is moving, no?

The crux of your argument is now that a Garda would take it upon themselves to deem it as "dangerous". Oh, and not that the bus pulling up in the middle of the road being dangerous, but the parked bus!! The parked bus forced no pedestrian anywhere. It didn't force the other bus to stop in the middle of the road to collect passengers, even if that is a result of the bus's parking.

foggy_lad

cast_iron wrote: »

How is that "a problem"?

Quite simply, there is very little danger in the case you presented. You have argued (quite correctly, I think) to the death that traffic is being blocked from behind and that another bus is parked on the inside. By definition, I would say that effectively eliminates all "danger", as no traffic is moving, no?

The crux of your argument is now that a Garda would take it upon themselves to deem it as "dangerous". Oh, and not that the bus pulling up in the middle of the road being dangerous, but the parked bus!! The parked bus forced no pedestrian anywhere. It didn't force the other bus to stop in the middle of the road to collect passengers, even if that is a result of the bus's parking.

The bus that is picking up the passengers should not be stopped on the roadway and should be pulled into the available stop but is unable to do so because of poor management of the bus stop areas at Busáras. and the buses that passengers regularly have to walk between at "gate 16" often have their engines running(some with no driver present) and as such it is dangerous to have pedestrians walking between them.

miller50841

Think Taxi's should be the ones you should be chasing Fooggy.

cast_iron

foggy_lad wrote: »

The bus that is picking up the passengers should not be stopped on the roadway and should be pulled into the available stop but is unable to do so because of poor management of the bus stop areas at Busáras.

I specifically challenged your point on the parking being dangerous, but this is all you respond with. Talk of poor management does not in any way negate my point. Have management broken a law somewhere?

foggy_lad

cast_iron wrote: »

I specifically challenged your point on the parking being dangerous, but this is all you respond with. Talk of poor management does not in any way negate my point. Have management broken a law somewhere?

If a bus is parked at a bus stop it is not parked dangerously until another bus arrives to use that stop and passengers have to walk out onto the roadway to board their bus.

cast_iron

foggy_lad wrote: »

If a bus is parked at a bus stop it is not parked dangerously until another bus arrives to use that stop and passengers have to walk out onto the roadway to board their bus.

Ok, so a bus can legally park in a bus parking area, but it suddenly becomes illegal parking when another bus stops on the driving lane beside it?

As anti-IR and anti-BE and all as you may be, surely even you can see how ridiculous that is?
In any case, if that's the sort of logic I have to argue with, I will not waste my time here any further.

Hilly Bill

There is a difference between walking onto the roadway to board a bus with traffic able to pass on the inside and boarding a bus that hasnt pulled fully into the stop because its prevented from doing so but no traffic is able to pass on the inside which looks like whats happening in your pics.
Your main point is a valid one but your examples in the pictures isnt as clear cut as you want us to think. Due to the volume of buses that pick up from that point and the limited space available then the occasional obstruction is going to happen if Bus Eireann wants to keep their passengers moving on time. Until a larger and safer and practical depot can be found then i think Bus Eireann are doing the best with the cards that they have been dealt.
Dublin Bus could be easily hit by the guards for the way their buses are parked on Marlbourgh street. Buses parked right at the lights on double yellow lines. If you had posted pictures of this Foggy then i doubt anyone could argue with you.

Hilly Bill

cast_iron wrote: »

Ok, so a bus can legally park in a bus parking area, but it suddenly becomes illegal parking when another bus stops on the driving lane beside it?

As anti-IR and anti-BE and all as you may be, surely even you can see how ridiculous that is?
In any case, if that's the sort of logic I have to argue with, I will not waste my time here any further.

I think what he means is that there is no issue on a bus parked at a bus stop until another bus needs to use it to drop off or pick up passengers which the bus is unable to do because another bus has parked in it rather than just stop to unload or board passengers. In this case if the first bus isnt loading or offloading then it should move out of the way to let the other buses to use it safely.
I believe this is Foggy's main point of the thread. Sorry if im wrong Foggy.

parsi

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think what he means is that there is no issue on a bus parked at a bus stop until another bus needs to use it to drop off or pick up passengers which the bus is unable to do because another bus has parked in it rather than just stop to unload or board passengers. In this case if the first bus isnt loading or offloading then it should move out of the way to let the other buses to use it safely.
I believe this is Foggy's main point of the thread. Sorry if im wrong Foggy.

In this case the first legally parked bus is not parked dangerously - it is the loading/unloading vehicle which is stopped dangerously.

AlekSmart

parsi wrote: »

In this case the first legally parked bus is not parked dangerously - it is the loading/unloading vehicle which is stopped dangerously.

Zackly...and the driver,had he/she known Foggy_Lad was in Lord Snowdon mode,would have declined to embark those passengers and simply driv off to join the sometimes substantial number of vehicles "stacked" as they circle BusArás awaiting their opportunity to nip in,load and go.

Whilst it is obvious to everybody that BusArás and environs has been substantially compromised by developments,most reasonable folk accept that the on-site Inspectors are doing as well as they can.......except for our intrepid snapper,who whilst full of vitriol and bile towards the Bus Eireann staff,remains somewhat lacking in any worthwhile workable suggestions to improve matters.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Zackly...and the driver,had he/she known Foggy_Lad was in Lord Snowdon mode,would have declined to embark those passengers and simply driv off to join the sometimes substantial number of vehicles "stacked" as they circle BusArás awaiting their opportunity to nip in,load and go.

Whilst it is obvious to everybody that BusArás and environs has been substantially compromised by developments,most reasonable folk accept that the on-site Inspectors are doing as well as they can.......except for our intrepid snapper,who whilst full of vitriol and bile towards the Bus Eireann staff,remains somewhat lacking in any worthwhile workable suggestions to improve matters.

I have suggested before that the bus stops at gate 16 should be kept clear enough for at least one bus to pull in safely and that inspectors actually walk around the place they work now and then and make sure that this area is kept clear instead of sitting in the "crows nest" for most of their shift.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

I have suggested before that the bus stops at gate 16 should be kept clear enough for at least one bus to pull in safely and that inspectors actually walk around the place they work now and then and make sure that this area is kept clear instead of sitting in the "crows nest" for most of their shift.

Have you made your suggestions known to BusEireann?
Have you enough experience or info to say that they are there for most of their shift or just the times that you have been watching them?
No offence Foggy but im still concerned as to why you took a picture of someone using a cash machine and posted it on here.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

I have suggested before that the bus stops at gate 16 should be kept clear enough for at least one bus to pull in safely and that inspectors actually walk around the place they work now and then and make sure that this area is kept clear instead of sitting in the "crows nest" for most of their shift.[/QUOTE

Foggy,even when you post stuff which has merit,you consistently undermine yourself by tacking-on irrational,ill informed,and many times just plain WRONG stuff to the core of your complaint.

Anybody familiar with the way the BusArás Inspectors work will just roll their eyes at the last bit....sadly Foggy,it just reveals spite for spite's sake and does nothing for whatever point you want to make.

monument

I repeat:

monument wrote: »

Everybody -- please behave and tone it down a notch or two.

Please be aware you should attack the point and not the poster.

Also note that a strongly held view is not the same as trolling. If you can't put up with a poster please don't read their threads and think about putting them on your ignore list.

There will be banning soon if this keeps up.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST.

I can't make myself any clearer.

foggy_lad

There were a lot of passengers left behind at gate 16 this evening because there were three buses parked there which don't even load passengers there and the Waterford hire-in bus had to pull in around at gate 15 in front of the main entrance, the driver decided not to block the street by boarding passengers while stopped in the main traffic lane and due to safety concerns for the passengers that he is responsible for.

As usual no sign of any management or inspectors to clear the parked buses(2 LDs, both 109's and an ulsterbus x1), or arrange an alternative space for Waterford passengers to board their bus. Really there should be an inspector at gate 16 whenever there is a bus due to load or disembark passengers. They are required there to make sure that buses are able to pull in properly to the kerb for all passengers especially any with mobility issues.

On the way onto the m7 at Naas the driver got a call to say he had left lots of people behind and they were out for blood, and could he turn around and go back for them! what kind of managers or stand inspectors would even suggest such a thing for a bus that was at least 20 minutes into its journey?

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

There were a lot of passengers left behind at gate 16 this evening because there were three buses parked there which don't even load passengers there and the Waterford hire-in bus had to pull in around at gate 15 in front of the main entrance, the driver decided not to block the street by boarding passengers while stopped in the main traffic lane and due to safety concerns for the passengers that he is responsible for.

As usual no sign of any management or inspectors to clear the parked buses(2 LDs, both 109's and an ulsterbus x1), or arrange an alternative space for Waterford passengers to board their bus. Really there should be an inspector at gate 16 whenever there is a bus due to load or disembark passengers. They are required there to make sure that buses are able to pull in properly to the kerb for all passengers especially any with mobility issues.

On the way onto the m7 at Naas the driver got a call to say he had left lots of people behind and they were out for blood, and could he turn around and go back for them! what kind of managers or stand inspectors would even suggest such a thing for a bus that was at least 20 minutes into its journey?

Had he got it on speaker-phone ?