PRTB and the LL.

sailordog13

Just throwing it out there, after browsing a few horror stories.

Does anybody know a situation where a Land Lord has been helped by the PRTB, in claiming back damages, unpaid rent etc...

In a lot of threads I've read, the tennants are very quick to threaten LL with the mighty PRTB, but its supposed to be an inpartial body, yes?
Yet its the LL that has to register and pay for the registration.

From my take on it, once a tennant is in, their in.
Its in the LL's interest to keep the tennant on side, because the tennant can walk at anytime, subject to deposit, but an eviction for any reason against an unwilling (unpaying) tennant can take at least a year.

So, can anybody bolster my opinion of the PRTB.

For the record, I am a landlord, I have a tennant I am very happy with, and who I hope says the same about me.
My tenancy is registered, and I have no outstanding issues with the Board.

Just looking for thoughts, opinions, and experiences.

SD13

TheBandicoot

sailordog13 wrote: »

Does anybody know a situation where a Land Lord has been helped by the PRTB, in claiming back damages, unpaid rent etc...

Loads of them. Rather than asking here you can just look at the published decisions at http://public.prtb.ie/disputes.htm

The Respondent Tenant shall pay the total sum of €3,808.42 to the Applicant Landlord within 14 days of the date of issue of this Order

The Respondent Tenant shall pay the total sum of €5,448 to the Applicant Landlord at the rate of €400 per month, on the 28th day of each month, commencing the next month after the issue of this Order.

The Respondent Tenant and all persons residing in the above dwelling shall vacate the dwelling within 14 days of the date of issue of this Order;

Looks to me like there's a fair mix of landlord and tenant winners.

sailordog13 wrote: »

In a lot of threads I've read, the tennants are very quick to threaten LL with the mighty PRTB,

In cases where the LL is in breach of his obligations. What is wrong with 'threatening' them in that case? That's what the board is for. LLs can do exactly the same if the tenant is in breach of their obligations.

sailordog13 wrote: »

but its supposed to be an inpartial body, yes?

Yeah, it is. I fail to see how this relates to the first half of your sentence.

sailordog13 wrote: »

Yet its the LL that has to register and pay for the registration.

Because they're the one making money from the tenancy, it's only right they pay. It's a cost of running the business- you just include it in calculating the rent you are going to charge, so ultimately it's the tenant paying it, that's where the money is coming from.

sailordog13 wrote: »

From my take on it, once a tennant is in, their in.
Its in the LL's interest to keep the tennant on side, because the tennant can walk at anytime

That's really not true at all though, if a tenant leaves early the LL can abslutely go to the PTRB and get an order against them:

The Appellant Tenant shall pay the sum of €282.14 to the Respondent Landlord within 28 days of the date of issue of this Order, being loss of rent of €1,432.14 arising from the premature termination of a fixed term lease

http://public.prtb.ie/2012%20Disputes/2012%20Tribunals/TR188.2011.DR193.2011/Order.pdf

The Respondent Tenant shall pay the sum of €553.98 to the Appellant Landlords
within 28 days of the date of issue of this Order, being outstanding rent due of
€903.98, for the early termination of a fixed term tenancy agreement

http://public.prtb.ie/2012%20Disputes/2012%20Tribunals/TR220.2011DR137.2011/Order.pdf

The Respondent Tenant shall pay the sum of €1,655.39 to the Appellant Landlord
within 21 days of the date of issue of this Order, being rent arrears of
€1,611together with damages of €644.39 for breach of her obligations in failing to
serve a valid Notice of Termination

http://public.prtb.ie/2012%20Disputes/2012%20Tribunals/TR163.2011.DR1763.2010/Order.pdf

sailordog13 wrote: »

Just looking for thoughts, opinions, and experiences.

No, I think you are looking to set up an echochamber to tell you that the PRTB is a biased organisation that is the enemy of landlords everywhere. I'm sorry that the facts don't match what you would like to think.


Most rational people would say that the problem is not with the PRTB's decisions themselves, it's that they are underresourced so everything takes a very long time and that their orders are not enforcable directly, you need to go to court separatetly to enforce them.

I really don't agree with people on either side of the fence who say the entire system needs to be overhauled. I think it works fine, it just needs two changes made and it will be perfect:

1) Government sets up a deposit-holding fund/entity. At start of tenancy LL and tenant jointly lodge the deposit to the fund. At the end either they jointly submit a statement saying there was no problem and the deposit amount is deposited into the tenant's bank a/c. If there is any dispute, the case goes to the PRTB and they decide what happens to the money. This removes the possiblity of LLs withholding deposits and of tenants using it as last month's rent.

2)Big investment of resources into the PTRB(could use interest/investment returns from the deposit fund) to give it the ability to quickly and effenciently investigate disputes and make a ruling. Legaslative changes to give the ruling legal standing so it must be followed by both parties straight away and stops being a civil matter and becomes a criminal one(we all know that gardai don't want to get involved in LL/tenant disputes, they just tell you to go to Thresold/PRTB and there have been threads here about Gardai refusing to witness stuff).

That's it, that would work well and we'd have a functional rental environment in this country.

Milk & Honey

Just because the PRTB directs the tenant to pay money does not mean the landlord has been helped. often the amount of money is less than it should be and the PRTB delay so long that it costs the landlord a lot more than it should.

murphaph

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Just because the PRTB directs the tenant to pay money does not mean the landlord has been helped. often the amount of money is less than it should be and the PRTB delay so long that it costs the landlord a lot more than it should.

...and the PRTB is NOT a court, so the tenant can just ignore the ruling and wait to be sued by the other party in a real court and even then if the defendant has no money they'll end up getting a pathetic order for a fiver a week (read: debt will never be repaid) made against them.

In short, the PRTB is just another layer of useless bureaucracy, paid for by landlords. It should be radically reformed to provide a service to decent landlords and tenants, so good people from both sides can find each other and bad people from both sides are blacklisted. But the PRTB in its current guise is not fit for purpose.

sailordog13

Thanks for a very balanced and insightful reply TheBandicoot,

TBH I was not aware that the PRTB published reports.

Re your points 1 and 2, I would support both of them 100%.