Why is the 1st of Febuary the first day of spring?

snaps

I always thought that the first day of March was classed as the first day of Spring?

I was brought up in the UK, Im sure we were taught that the seasons were as follows:

Dec, Jan, Feb=Winter
March, April, May=Spring
June, July, August=Summer
Sept, October, Nov=Autumn

Perhaps the seasons are different in the UK compared to Ireland?

MostlyLurks

Been wondering for ages myself but never at the same time as sitting beside a computer until I saw your post.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055821203

Speak Now

Look up Seasonal lag. Meteorology speaking spring starts March 01st.

redman

pagan festival....
astronomical spring i believe is mar 20th this year

Spindle

Spring being on the 1st of February is the tradition of the Celtic seasons. The Celts and even the people before them used to track the sun to tell what time of year they had by referencing the sun.

This all makes sense when you think that the summer solstice is the 21st - 22nd of June (around what is know as mid-summer) and the winter solstice is around the 21st - 22nd of December (around what is know as mid-winter).

The more modern meteorological seasons run one month off from the Celtic seasons, as they more align to the type of weather you would expect to see during those seasons. As on average December to March would be the coldest months, with the most snow frosts etc, so then these would from a meteorological point of view be Winter.

I always liked the Celtic system, as it aligns more with mid-summer and mid-winter, with each being in the middle of summer/winter. It also aligns more with the change in length of the days.

From a weather point of view December/January/February are Winter though.

Joe Public

The names for September (Meán Fómhair) and October (Deireadh Fómhair) translate directly as "middle of autumn" and "end of autumn".

ednwireland

i saw snowdrops yesterday (it also lets weather presenters say not much sign of spring yet")

maherball

In the traditional Celtic calendar the 1st of Feb is the start of spring, we have hung onto this since then

milli milli

ednwireland wrote: »

i saw snowdrops yesterday (it also lets weather presenters say not much sign of spring yet")

There were snowdrops in my garden weeks ago. And there are a few primroses up too

Bebo stunnah

Last year summer was on March 27th

opinion guy

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

Last year summer was on March 27th

Don't be ridiculous its been winter here for 3 years

Kat1170

Spindle wrote: »

Spring being on the 1st of February is the tradition of the Celtic seasons. The Celts and even the people before them used to track the sun to tell what time of year they had by referencing the sun.

This all makes sense when you think that the summer solstice is the 21st - 22nd of June (around what is know as mid-summer) and the winter solstice is around the 21st - 22nd of December (around what is know as mid-winter).

The more modern meteorological seasons run one month off from the Celtic seasons, as they more align to the type of weather you would expect to see during those seasons. As on average December to March would be the coldest months, with the most snow frosts etc, so then these would from a meteorological point of view be Winter.

I always liked the Celtic system, as it aligns more with mid-summer and mid-winter, with each being in the middle of summer/winter. It also aligns more with the change in length of the days.

From a weather point of view December/January/February are Winter though.

A.... don't know about that :D

B.... It's fecking like winter here about 11 months of the year, give or take a month :D

Booms

Because Harry didn't get his wish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBe8xXJSpY

Spindle

Kat1170 wrote: »

A.... don't know about that :D

B.... It's fecking like winter here about 11 months of the year, give or take a month :D

As we all know, winter=very cold rain, spring=cool rain, summer=warm rain, autumn=cold rain.

Although I do think someone should have a word with the weather, doesn't (it, he, she, they..) ever check the calendar, it is a bit like and Irish bus, doesn't know what time it is meant to arrive, turns up the wrong day or late, or even the wrong place.

We need EU regulation to regulate this chaotic weather fellow to slot into out nice defined seasons. Just think of the confused children

Speak Now

red_bairn wrote: »

"In Ireland spring traditionally starts on 1 February, St Brigid's Day,[7] although Irish meteorologists consider the whole of February to be part of winter"-SOURCE

Were talking road conditions which weather is one of the biggest determining factors so it should be still winter as far as the AAA are concerned. Either way Snow in spring wouldnt be a shocker either!

fontenoy7

Spring doesn't start until 1 March?? Where is all this February rubbish coming from??

Summer starts in 1 June and ends on 1 September.

The MET office is constantly saying that. I grew up in Ireland and always learned that Spring started officially in March.:):):):)

red_bairn

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

Were talking road conditions which weather is one of the biggest determining factors so it should be still winter as far as the AAA are concerned. Either way Snow in spring wouldnt be a shocker either!

Whoa. I'm tired today. I reread what you wrote and thought you said that it's well into Spring now. :rolleyes:

I remember a few years ago we had some snow in April.

seamus

fontenoy7 wrote: »

I grew up in Ireland and always learned that Spring started officially in March.:):):):)

Don't know what school you went to, we were always taught that spring started on 1st February.

This is actually astronomical Spring. Astronomically speaking, the most intense sunshine on Ireland is between 1st May and 31st July and the least between 1st Nov and 31st Jan.

However primarily because of the sea, there's a meteorological "lag" of about a month while the sea temperatures adjust. Basically in May the sea is still bloody freezing from the Winter, so our weather stays cool, and in November the seas are still warm from Summer, so the weather stays a bit warmer.

It's also why August and September are traditionally our best months for weather - because the seas have reach peak warmth from the sunshine over the summer.

I've heard 1st March being called the start of meteorological Spring, but I've never heard anyone say it's the actual start of Spring

Iancar29

seamus wrote: »

Don't know what school you went to, we were always taught that spring started on 1st February.

This is actually astronomical Spring. Astronomically speaking, the most intense sunshine on Ireland is between 1st May and 31st July and the least between 1st Nov and 31st Jan.

However primarily because of the sea, there's a meteorological "lag" of about a month while the sea temperatures adjust. Basically in May the sea is still bloody freezing from the Winter, so our weather stays cool, and in November the seas are still warm from Summer, so the weather stays a bit warmer.

I've heard 1st March being called the start of meteorological Spring, but I've never heard anyone say it's the actual start of Spring

Eh .. no... astronomically the 1st day of spring is March 20 on the vernal equinox . :rolleyes: .. my schools always learnt it as March 1st being Spring.

seamus

Iancar29 wrote: »

Eh .. no... astronomically the 1st day of spring is March 20 on the vernal equinox . :rolleyes: .. my schools always learnt it as March 1st being Spring.

You've got that wrong there.

The Summer solstice is mid-summer. The equinoxes are mid-spring and mid-autumn. If the Spring is 3 months long and the mid-point occurs in March, then the Spring starts in February.

Otherwise what you're saying is that atsronomical summer doesn't start until 21 June - when the amount of sunlight starts to decrease. Which makes no sense.

SnowDancer

seamus wrote: »

You've got that wrong there.

The Summer solstice is mid-summer. The equinoxes are mid-spring and mid-autumn. If the Spring is 3 months long and the mid-point occurs in March, then the Spring starts in February.

Otherwise what you're saying is that atsronomical summer doesn't start until 21 June - when the amount of sunlight starts to decrease. Which makes no sense.

I had been taught in school that spring began on 1st Feb. According to wikipedia though, I'm wrong.

"Meteorological seasons are reckoned by temperature, with summer being the hottest quarter of the year and winter the coldest quarter of the year. Using this reckoning, the Roman calendar began the year and the spring season on the first of March, with each season occupying three months. In 1780 the Societas Meteorologica Palatina, an early international organization for meteorology, defined seasons as groupings of three whole months. Ever since, professional meteorologists all over the world have used this definition.[7] Therefore, for the Northern hemisphere, spring begins on 1 March, summer on 1 June, autumn on 1 September, and winter on 1 December"

Iancar29

seamus wrote: »

You've got that wrong there.

The Summer solstice is mid-summer. The equinoxes are mid-spring and mid-autumn. If the Spring is 3 months long and the mid-point occurs in March, then the Spring starts in February.

Otherwise what you're saying is that atsronomical summer doesn't start until 21 June - when the amount of sunlight starts to decrease. Which makes no sense.

Meteorologically Speaking all CLIMATE DATA for SPRING starts on the 1st of March. Astronomically speaking , spring starts 20th of March and yes , 21st of June is then the Astronomical start of Summer.


Only just realised this was the Ramping thread and not the " 1st day of spring debate thread" :rolleyes:

seamus

Meteorological seasons are reckoned by temperature, with summer being the hottest quarter of the year and winter the coldest quarter of the year.

That's exactly what I'm saying. In astronomical terms, the Earth's tilt towards the sun is at it's maximum (for us) between 1 May and 31 July (give or take). However because we don't live on a piece of bare rock, these changes aren't immediately reflected on the ground, instead there's a lag of a month or so. So meteorologically the warmest months are more like 1 June to 31 August.

We were taught the astronomical seasons in school. I was actually out of college before I realised that the astronomical seasons don't match up with the reality on the ground

Edit: Apologies Iancar, I didn't realise that "Astronomical Summer" was an actual term, you're right. Seems bizarre though that they would label it "summer" when the sunlight is in decline.

Any road, it all means the same thing. We still have at least 3 more weeks of "winter" in which to see some lovely white gold.

Larbre34

seamus wrote: »

You've got that wrong there.

The Summer solstice is mid-summer. The equinoxes are mid-spring and mid-autumn. If the Spring is 3 months long and the mid-point occurs in March, then the Spring starts in February.

Otherwise what you're saying is that atsronomical summer doesn't start until 21 June - when the amount of sunlight starts to decrease. Which makes no sense.

Astronomical summer has nothing to do with the length of the day in our particular part of the world.

Its annoying when this keeps coming up, the Weather Forum is about the science (mostly) so Meteorological seasons are what are referred to. Its what your TV forecasters refer to also.

Just because some Nun told you St. Bridgets day is the start of spring, or the pre-christians of Ireland went with Feb 1st, its not the basis of the seasons in common and scientific use in the 21st Century.

Weathering

This is a weather thread not a phd in season studies. It's still Winter offically until the 5th of March. True story

Elmer Blooker

redman wrote: »

pagan festival....
astronomical spring i believe is mar 20th this year

Exactly. It's a very old pagan festival that celebrates the return of the light at the halfway point between the mid winter solstice and the spring equinox and has nothing to do with the weather getting warmer because it doesn't - Feb isn't any warmer than Jan.
With the arrival of christianity this festival became Candlemas (2nd Feb)
the candle obviously represents light.
All pagan festivals revolved around the passage of the sun and the seasons, the halfway points between solstices and the equinoxes were very important occasions, Halloween or Samhain being the obvious one.
I would say St Patrick's Day was originally a festival marking the spring equinox before christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wheel_of_the_Year.svg

Duggys Housemate

I agree that Feb 1 isn't Spring. However, to be fair to our celtic ancestors, they were sun worhsippers ( hence new grange) and they were aware of the angles of the Sun in the sky during the year. And it is at it's lowest about November, December and Jan.

( Pre-Christianity they didn't have the same months, so Samhain was probably a bit later by two weeks, and so too the start of Spring)

The European meteorological seasons make sense, the American meteorological season makes very little sense, effectively beginning Summer in mid Summer.

amadangomor

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

I agree that Feb 1 isn't Spring. However, to be fair to our celtic ancestors, they were sun worhsippers ( hence new grange) and they were aware of the angles of the Sun in the sky during the year. And it is at it's lowest about November, December and Jan.

( Pre-Christianity they didn't have the same months, so Samhain was probably a bit later by two weeks, and so too the start of Spring)

The European meteorological seasons make sense, the American meteorological season makes very little sense, effectively beginning Summer in mid Summer.

The "Celts" were not the builders of Newgrange."Celts" has to be the most overused and misused term in anthropology.