Noise from kids in apartment

Kadetady

I'm the owner of a 3 bed apartment on second floor and we have 2 kids(3 and 7 years) and I have laminated floors. Since we move in this apartment the neighbour from 1st floor is keep complaining about that my kids are running and they could hear the noise! Lately as soon as my kids starts to play the underneath neighbour keeps banging in the ceiling! We were just stoping the kids to run and get along, but in one day my wife couldn't stand it anymore so she banged back. In the next 2 minutes the guy came to our door and start to shout to my wife(I was in work) and to use an abusive language! My kids got frighten and so and my wife.I went home and then I went and we reported to Garda! They said that only thing they could do is to record it and if is happen again to call them! We contact the management company as well explaine the situation but I said that I'm making a complain I'm just inform them about the problem! A few days ago it happen again the same thing only this time the Garda came out, they understood us and say we shouldn't worrie about because they are kids and we are not making any noise after 20:00 because kids are going to sleep, then they went to my neighbour and told him not to came to our door anymore! We were thinking to put carpets but how could I know that the noise will be gone. That's the only noise kids playing no music, no party's, just kids playing! Is anybody has any sugestion about all this situation!

Forest Demon

There are no winners in this situation. Carpets on the floors and slippers for the kids to play in would help. Probably badly designed or constructed apartments.

It is not unreasonable for your children to play in the apartment. It is also not unreasonable for your neighbor to be able to live in peace. Its hard to know if they are being overly fussy without knowing what the noise is like in their apartment.

RATM

Are the kids wearing shoes on the wooden floor when they're playing ? Would taking them off help reduce the noise on the floor ?

athtrasna

Are you allowed have wooden floors in your apartment. It's pretty standard that you can't put wooden or laminate floors in an apartment where you have another apartment below you. Check your lease, it could be a very expensive lesson to learn.

frozenfrozen

You should empathise with why banging back angered him. You're the ones being loud so try to fix the problem. At least loud music is ambient but running and screaming children above your head isn't. Seems like there wasn't any/enough sound proofing put down. Just because they're children doesn't mean they should be allowed to effect someone else's standard of living in their own home... Get their shoes off and put down some rugs on the floor. Another option might be to tire them out by bringing them outside for a couple hours to run, and please don't take that point like I'm trying to teach anyone how to handle their children, it's just a valid point that if they make the noise outside instead of inside, everyone will be happy

Miaireland

I would put carpet down and if you can afford put foam insulation between the floor and your carpet. Also get the kids to wear slippers. I notice that you mention that the issue seems to arise when they are running. Perhaps consider introducing a rule of no running indoors. I know it is not ideal but for a peaceful life some compromises have to be made.

Outkast_IRE

Any form of wooden or tiled floor in most irish apartments shouldnt be allowed. The noise travels so easily its ridiculous.

Twoandahalfmen

frozenfrozen wrote: »

You should empathise with why banging back angered him. You're the ones being loud so try to fix the problem. At least loud music is ambient but running and screaming children above your head isn't. Seems like there wasn't any/enough sound proofing put down. Just because they're children doesn't mean they should be allowed to effect someone else's standard of living in their own home... Get their shoes off and put down some rugs on the floor. Another option might be to tire them out by bringing them outside for a couple hours to run, and please don't take that point like I'm trying to teach anyone how to handle their children, it's just a valid point that if they make the noise outside instead of inside, everyone will be happy

Tell him to F off. This is one of the negative thigs about apartments and if he can't accept that kids make noise to buy a house and **** off.

frozenfrozen

Twoandahalfmen wrote: »

Tell him to F off. This is one of the negative thigs about apartments and if he can't accept that kids make noise to buy a house and **** off.

The thing about apartments is that you have to try to live peacefully within close proximity to other families. It's not acceptable that only those who can put up with unreasonable noise should live in such places. If they tell him to fcuk off he will sit beside the phone until they have their first party and the guards will be there faster than you can say buzz kill -- for the rest of the duration of their stay in that apartment block. It's much easier to try and get on with neighbours....

the_syco

Kadetady wrote: »

I have laminated floors

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Did the wooden floors come with the original apartment when it was built, or was it put in afterwards?

ardmacha

You could try and live in a manner that was not a nuisance to your neighbours, I suppose.

fussyonion

I used to live in a ground-floor apartment and there was a woman with a young child living above.

The child was always running around, day and night, right up until around midnight.
At first, I bit my tongue and forgot about it, but I did approach the woman one day, only to be told to mind my own business.
Eventually it died down and as the child got a bit older, he played outside.
I can understand both parties' frustration on the matter.

The child has a right to play in his/her own home, but the person underneath has a right to peace and quiet too.
Being abusive to each other won't solve the problem.

Maybe you could get cheap carpet down or something or get a few rugs down. Then you've done your bit at least.

Carlito88

frozenfrozen wrote: »

You should empathise with why banging back angered him. You're the ones being loud so try to fix the problem. At least loud music is ambient but running and screaming children above your head isn't. Seems like there wasn't any/enough sound proofing put down. Just because they're children doesn't mean they should be allowed to effect someone else's standard of living in their own home... Get their shoes off and put down some rugs on the floor. Another option might be to tire them out by bringing them outside for a couple hours to run, and please don't take that point like I'm trying to teach anyone how to handle their children, it's just a valid point that if they make the noise outside instead of inside, everyone will be happy

Empathaise? I would certainly find it difficult to empathise with someone who is verbally abusive...indeed telling him to f@#k off certainly would be the most desired response, however that would make the situation worse...and it is important to live as neighbours...but should the neighbour who is unhappy really be presenting himself as a nuisaince ie. banging on the ceiling...and what can only be described as harrasing ie. swearing and frightening the wife and children. When really all the neighbours aredoing are making use of their private home. If they are wearing shoes in the house it is not unreasonable to replace with slippers, if this is indeed the case.
Also to suggest to take them outside and "tire" them out, I highly doubt any 3 or 7 year old are cooped up in an apartment all day....even so, on a cold rainy day? to drag your kids outside not to disturb the neighbour???

Eldrick Woods

As another poster has pointed out, having wooden floors in a non ground floor apartment is generally prohibited by the lease.

frozenfrozen

Carlito88 wrote: »

Empathaise? I would certainly find it difficult to empathise with someone who is verbally abusive...indeed telling him to f@#k off certainly would be the most desired response, however that would make the situation worse...and it is important to live as neighbours...but should the neighbour who is unhappy really be presenting himself as a nuisaince ie. banging on the ceiling...and what can only be described as harrasing ie. swearing and frightening the wife and children. When really all the neighbours aredoing are making use of their private home. If they are wearing shoes in the house it is not unreasonable to replace with slippers, if this is indeed the case.
Also to suggest to take them outside and "tire" them out, I highly doubt any 3 or 7 year old are cooped up in an apartment all day....even so, on a cold rainy day? to drag your kids outside not to disturb the neighbour???

Carlito you wouldn't happen to know the OP would you?

I'm just commenting on how I saw the story. Children are making noise, guy bangs on ceiling to make them stop, gets a fcuk you back in the form of a bang back from upstairs. I never said they were cooped up, and my point still stands that if they've been outside running all day they won't be running as much inside the house. Yeah yeah cold day, we're talking about making this a permanent change.

Gatling

Kids make noise full stop . I sympathize with the op been living in apartment's for over 15 years and I've also got kids one who happen s to bounce around all day till 7pm bedtime saying run the kids around outside to tire them out is a pretty stupid solution to the problems ,first you and your kids are entitled to make noise that's within reasonable levels banging on your ceiling id consider been unreasonable I always found a quite chat is usually the best way of raiseing concerns as it stands its a no win situation yeah you could rip up the flooring add insulation and carpets cost you a small fortune and yet your noisey neighbour will probably still complain if he continue's to bang on your ceiling or make threats at your door id seek legal advice against him

Carlito88

Yes i do know the op, So it is quite frustrating, I know that the unhappy neighbour is being most definitly understood and certainly being empathised with by the OP, I know that there are and always has been rugs and a no shoes and no running policy in the apt. I also know that the children are very well behaved and the op are and have been bending over backwards to accommodate the neighbour. Also I know that the children along with their parents have a very hectic lifestyle, so not very often at home, it is my personal belief that the insulation is very poor, also i do believe that the neighbour is very short tempered and unwilling to accept any level of noise from the children. I believe that the unhappy neighbour deeply regrets buying an apartment in the complex and often vents this regret by resenting and abusing the op and wife.

frozenfrozen

In the light of all of that, the man is being very unreasonable and I had misread the situation. I was trying to see both sides of the problem after only having been given half of one of the stories. Seeing as the man owns his apartment, there's no option of waiting him out, and instead of bending over backwards to try and please him, or continuing to get threats from him, he just needs to be sat down and told once that you're going to try to keep the noise to a minimum, and if he ever threatens anyone again he's going to see a lot of legal trouble.

It doesn't sound like a fun situation to be in at all, and unfortunately I'd say in the long run the easier option would be to try to relocate apartment within the complex, or to another place completely.

ted1

frozenfrozen wrote: »

You should empathise with why banging back angered him. You're the ones being loud so try to fix the problem. At least loud music is ambient but running and screaming children above your head isn't. Seems like there wasn't any/enough sound proofing put down. Just because they're children doesn't mean they should be allowed to effect someone else's standard of living in their own home... Get their shoes off and put down some rugs on the floor. Another option might be to tire them out by bringing them outside for a couple hours to run, and please don't take that point like I'm trying to teach anyone how to handle their children, it's just a valid point that if they make the noise outside instead of inside, everyone will be happy

Nonsense they are not doing anything out of the normal. If the complex was poorly built its not there fault kids Re kids. No one should be a prisoner in there own home

The_Morrigan

OP, while not condoning the behaviour of your neighbour I can understand his frustration.

I live in a first floor apt, I've lived here for over four years and I've always ignored the noise during the day that has come from the neighbours above me and just put it down to apt living and one of the cons of this situation. It is just something to be tolerant of.

However, in the last few weeks there has been a change in tenants and there are currently a herd of elephants living above me, or at least that is what it sounds like! In reality there is a family with two children.

Right now they are running from one end of the apt to the other, shouting, screaming, banging stuff off the floor etc. I don't know if the sound travelling through the floor/ceiling is changed by some physical aspect or not, but the sound always seems worse from down here and I'm sick to my back teeth of having a constant banging noise in the background of my tv enjoyment, study sessions, meals, sleep, etc.

I've tried to talk to them about it and they think I should just shut up and put up, cos the kids are "just playing" and that is what kids do - which is not the attitude to take at all.
I have even invited them to come downstairs so they could hear why I was getting annoyed with the noise, but I got a door slammed in my overly tired faced.
Apt living requires harmony and give and take from all apt dwellers. Maybe you could talk to him and see if you could experience the noise from his apt, it may be a completely different noise to the one you are hearing or the noises that you are used too and your neighbour may have a valid reason for being completely annoyed by the situation and maybe he just snapped one day (I know I've been tempted to in the last week or so with my neighbours).


As other posters has suggested,no shoes in the apt, slippers to be worn, no running (if that happens) and being mindful of being heavy handed on moving furniture or dropping stuff that could be causing the noise.

It's never an ideal situation when neighbours fall out, and his behaviour towards your wife & kids is horrendous, but he really could have genuine reasons for being annoyed by the noise.

Carlito88

Yes, it certainly is not a pleasant enviornment to live in. He is indeed being very unresonable, there is no doubt that he is hearing footsteps.... no matter how well behaved any child is they will always drop a toy or run to their bedroom or bathroom, I personally think he is highly tuned and almost even waiting to hear them.
Another poster commented that although you could indeed rip up the floors and install carpet to perhaps at least minimise the level of noise passing through, but who's to say that he will calm down?
Or even if the op decides to lease out their property and move somewhere else, will the problem still occur for the unhappy neighbour even if they leased to a couple with no children?
Should they be pushed out of their own home....it's a very unfortunate situation..

fasttalkerchat

Sorry if it has been said already, underlay foam under the laminate floor greatly reduces the noise but it would be quite dear to do the whole apartment.

Carlito88

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Sorry if it has been said already, underlay foam under the laminate floor greatly reduces the noise but it would be quite dear to do the whole apartment.

Although I'm not the Original Poster, I do know that there was a foam layed down under the laminate floor during insulation.... But thank you for the advice

Glenbhoy

ardmacha wrote: »

You could try and live in a manner that was not a nuisance to your neighbours, I suppose.

Or equally reasonably, he could supply the neigbour with good quality ear plugs!!

Wooden floors in an apartment are not generally prohibited by the way, afaik in some newer developments leases included clauses ensuring that the flooring be properly sound proofed. It is quite easy to do this before a floor has been laid, not so easy afterwards though. As others have pointed out, the real issue here is the quality of the build, both OP and his neighbour are just going to have to live with it.

The_Morrigan

Carlito88 wrote: »

Yes, it certainly is not a pleasant enviornment to live in. He is indeed being very unresonable, there is no doubt that he is hearing footsteps.... no matter how well behaved any child is they will always drop a toy or run to their bedroom or bathroom, I personally think he is highly tuned and almost even waiting to hear them.
Another poster commented that although you could indeed rip up the floors and install carpet to perhaps at least minimise the level of noise passing through, but who's to say that he will calm down?
Or even if the op decides to lease out their property and move somewhere else, will the problem still occur for the unhappy neighbour even if they leased to a couple with no children?
Should they be pushed out of their own home....it's a very unfortunate situation..

He may not be unreasonable though, that's the point.
The noise could be unbearable in the apt - he is the only person to experience it - You don't know.
For me, I don't hear footsteps, I only hear when the dwellers upstairs start running and jumping around. I can tell when they are playing with the wii/xbox as all the noise is concentrated right over my living room and there are generally louder bangs on the floor, shrieks and laughter. Normal everyday general noise I don't hear, just the excessive noise.


The OP needs to talk to him and try have both sides understand the situation and have both sides try to resolve it. Whether that be tolerance of the situation or work being done on the floor/ceilings etc.

the_syco

Carlito88 wrote: »

Although I'm not the Original Poster, I do know that there was a foam layed down under the laminate floor during insulation.... But thank you for the advice

As I've asked before; did the OP install said laminate flooring when they moved in? It sounds like a case of no noise for apartment below, OP moves in, puts down laminate flooring, and suddenly there is noise generated.

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I've tried to talk to them about it and they think I should just shut up and put up, cos the kids are "just playing" and that is what kids do - which is not the attitude to take at all.
I have even invited them to come downstairs so they could hear why I was getting annoyed with the noise, but I got a door slammed in my overly tired faced.

Have you played Battlefield 3 yet? It's an awesome game. Ensure you play it with full surround sound to get maximum enjoyment out of it...

Carlito88

The_Morrigan wrote: »

He may not be unreasonable though, that's the point.
The noise could be unbearable in the apt - he is the only person to experience it - You don't know.
For me, I don't hear footsteps, I only hear when the dwellers upstairs start running and jumping around. I can tell when they are playing with the wii/xbox as all the noise is concentrated right over my living room and there are generally louder bangs on the floor, shrieks and laughter. Normal everyday general noise I don't hear, just the excessive noise.


The OP needs to talk to him and try have both sides understand the situation and have both sides try to resolve it. Whether that be tolerance of the situation or work being done on the floor/ceilings etc.

I understand what you're saying, and appreciate the feedback, unfortunately the op (a family friend) has posted here as a last resort.
There has been numerous talks and alot of understanding. In reality both parties are suffering, well certainly in this situation, the op and wife are indeed very concious of the childrens and even their own movements in their apt, the last thing the want is conflict or to cause any discomfort to the unhappy neighbours. The relationship with the "unhappy" neighbour to begin with was fine, but no matter how hard and the op tries it's still unsatisfactory. Also I would like to point out that all occasions where the unhappy neighbour has been banging the ceiling and calling to the apt shouting insults have all been during the day,he has never had need to complain at night time.
I really do feel pity for the unhappy neighbour, but at the same time I absolutely cannot condone his behaviour, I feel more pity for the op as the neighbour really is in my opinion being unreasonable.
He is after all the unhappy one, (who also was involved in the construction of the apartment complex) so should he not be the one to improve insulation within his ceiling?
I believe that should the op replace the laminate floors with carpet he would still hear footsteps, but this is just my opinion.
Although I have not heard the noise myself, the gardai, who were called recently (the neighbour lost control and flipped out because the op's wife banged back, just once, at 11.30 am after just arriving back fromthe supermaket with the kids) did relay to me that although they (the gardai) could here the childrens footsteps while they were advising the neighbour not to approach the op and wife again in such a manner, that the noise they heard was normal considering it is an apartment complex, they also advisded to take note of every ceiling banging incident and that the only action that could possibly be taken would be through the civil courts.

Merch

Carlito88 wrote: »

Although I'm not the Original Poster, I do know that there was a foam layed down under the laminate floor during insulation.... But thank you for the advice

How on earth could you know that, even still
a foam layed under the floor means nothing, it could be poor quality (ie cheap).
Or not suited for the purpose of reducing noise propogation (ie some underlay products are for heat insulation, others are better or actually designed for reducing noise).

The difference between say 20dB and 23dB isn't merely a 3/20th (15%) increase in noise but an actual doubling in sound power, ie 100% increase, one is twice the noise of the other.
Consider that low talking sounds are at approx 40dB, this exponential increase has the potential to very rapidly become intolerable noise.
I use these numbers as the 23dB was a value used on some of the products I evaluated for use as underlay which was good quality and was 8 times more expensive than cheaper underlay.
As mine was for the ground floor of a house, I got some based on the insulation and not the noise, but the value (rating) was still 22dB.

So the foam installed may be as good as useless.
It doesnt mean the person subject to it is wrong as if they are experiencing this non stop, well its subjective, plus there are weightings for noise at certain times too. So loud noise later on (or continually) can incur weighting penalties as the background level is lower, the sound power experienced by the person downstairs may be even worse.

If its admitted that the noise is being made then its reasonable to not expect someone else to put up with it non stop.
I can see how they might get annoyed with it continually and a non communicative response only tells the people/person downstairs those making the noise dont care.

We are really only hearing one side of the story also, maybe its all accurate but, if the other person came on here, they might have a completely different story to tell.

Tigger

http://www.samuelkirk.co.uk/underlay-timberlux-felt-per-sqm-1mt-wide-8895-p.asp
You need two layers of this stuff
Take up the flooring put this down and put back the flooring
Pm me and I'll organise it for you at cost
The labour will cost about 7 euros per square m but its an easy enough job to do yourselves

Fact is life is a compromise so unless you are prepared to go to war there is no real alternative

The_Morrigan

Thanks for the tip Syco! But I'm a loverly neighbour I never make (excessive) noise

Carlito88

the_syco wrote: »

As I've asked before; did the OP install said laminate flooring when they moved in? It sounds like a case of no noise for apartment below, OP moves in, puts down laminate flooring, and suddenly there is noise generated.

The apartment complex was literally just built when both parties bought the apartments,the unhappy neighbours living neighbour free and isolated for approx 3-4 months this was approx 2 years ago.
the complex is probably less than 50% full at the moment. The op installed the floors upon moviing into the apartment. No complaints were made for noise while installing, however the first complaint was made to them a few weeks after moving in, that they were not happy that the ops wife was hoovering at 7pm. The neighbours very "used" to having lived neighbour free, seemed willing to express at every opportunity their unhappiness which was taken seriously by the op. Since then it has escalated. As i have said before it is a very unfortunate situation.