Noise from kids in apartment

athtrasna

Carlito88 wrote: »

tThe op installed the floors upon moviing into the apartment.

Again I ask, what does the OP's lease say about wooden floors? As a relatively new development it is pretty likely there is a clause about them in the lease.

Eldrick Woods

1) Speak with the management company.
2) Check the lease for the rules regarding wooden floors.
3) Force the person with the wooden floors to remove them.

Carlito88

Merch wrote: »

How on earth could you know that, even still
a foam layed under the floor means nothing, it could be poor quality (ie cheap).

Like I said I'm a close family friend, I was there upon instalation, however being a mere mortal I dont know the precise quality of the underlay foam.

So the foam installed may be as good as useless.

So it would be a good idea to find out, perhaps they could upgrade it..
It will be interesting to find out.

If its admitted that the noise is being made then its reasonable to not expect someone else to put up with it non stop.

The op and wife have been communicating and responding with the main objective to decrease noise,what he is asking in the original post is should he install carpet to decrease the noise level...
So what underlay would you recommend?

Merch

I really think that carpet with underlay is a better option than laminate flooring in an apartment even with good quality underlay, I can not understand how anyone would put a laminate or hard flooring continually across an apartment (excluding the bathroom/kitchen area).

I dont have any figures on it but having heard people walking about in the upstairs of houses, the noise is muffled by carpeting, with underlay, its got to be much better.

Personally Id suggest the other person in this situation should be contacting someone to make noise measurements, it seems to me they just snapped after putting up with it, not right maybe, but its not unknown in people.
It seems like they should have proceeded in an official manner. Bringing the people making the noise downstairs to show them may have no effect as the noise may be at a lower level then, plus noise is subjective, even enduring a moderate to loud noise for a short time can be endured.
In industrial settings there are rules regarding exposure to noise and time limits for exposure above the limits, for good reason.

frozenfrozen

Carlito88 wrote: »

the_syco wrote: »

As I've asked before; did the OP install said laminate flooring when they moved in? It sounds like a case of no noise for apartment below, OP moves in, puts down laminate flooring, and suddenly there is noise generated.

The apartment complex was literally just built when both parties bought the apartments,the unhappy neighbours living neighbour free and isolated for approx 3-4 months this was approx 2 years ago.
the complex is probably less than 50% full at the moment. The op installed the floors upon moviing into the apartment. No complaints were made for noise while installing, however the first complaint was made to them a few weeks after moving in, that they were not happy that the ops wife was hoovering at 7pm. The neighbours very "used" to having lived neighbour free, seemed willing to express at every opportunity their unhappiness which was taken seriously by the op. Since then it has escalated. As i have said before it is a very unfortunate situation.

Since you know the OP (or are the OP most likely, or the husband)
I'm going to safely assume that you've really fluffed that fact. Was it more like 10pm, or was the hoovering something more like shouting? Nobody complains about being able to hear a hoover, unless it's at an unreasonable time, or else if the hoover were to be being violently thrown around the apartment.

You won't gain anything but the support of people over the internet by lying on here, and that's not worth anything to your cause, so what's the whole story?

JustAThought

Don't apartments have to be built with solid concrete reinforced floors ? It's not just laminate on old ceilings - assuming this is a new build & not an old georgian/converted house?

Assuming this, the kids must be making a HUGE amount of noise to have a guy complaining through a reinforced steel & cement ceiling.

As for the " civic suite " of the family guy - this is nonsense - are you going to spend tens of thousands of euro protesting a neighbour through courts for him shouting at your wife however rudely? I mean - rapists get off with practically no sentence in this country - the other day a man with 95 previous CONVICTIONS was finally sentenced to 2 years - but only because of his 95 other convictions he posed a " real" threat. What do you think the courts will do to a man that shouted ?

It is much more likely that your neighbour will start recording the times & incidences of noise from your apartment & the fact that he was so frustrated in complaining that the guards were called ( further proof of the inconveniencd & disruption the noise is causing) . S/he can then take a this proof to the local district court and for the small sum of e20 have an action taken against you and your family for noise & continuous disruption via noise to their lawful expectation of enjoying their property. The family man will then end up with a court order against him. And if it continues ; an eviction order.

Or the kids could be controlled and told to keep their noise outputs down.

the_syco

Eldrick Woods wrote: »

2) Check the lease for the rules regarding wooden floors.

Just a FYI for the OP; you may have bought the apartment, but if you double check the fine print, you will probably find that you only have a 900 year lease, and that the management rules still hold.

Merch

Carlito88 wrote:

;83038480]
How on earth could you know that, even still
a foam layed under the floor means nothing, it could be poor quality (ie cheap).

Like I said I'm a close family friend, I was there upon instalation, however being a mere mortal I dont know the precise quality of the underlay foam.

So the foam installed may be as good as useless.

So it would be a good idea to find out, perhaps they could upgrade it..
It will be interesting to find out.

If its admitted that the noise is being made then its reasonable to not expect someone else to put up with it non stop.

The op and wife have been communicating and responding with the main objective to decrease noise,what he is asking in the original post is should he install carpet to decrease the noise level...
So what underlay would you recommend?

If they are going to upgrade it, they will need to pull up/disassemble the laminate floor, they could do that themselves,
they could get it put down again after laying quality underlay, but that would either cost money or take time, or both.
It might cost less to even pull the flooring up and then put carpets down, but Id consider underlay too, that would probably be cheaper and more effective?? If they actually did that, then they could hardly be expected to do more and would be seen to do as much as possible to rectify the situation.
If they live beside each other and both parties expect that will stay the situation, they might have to agree to make peace, but it seems the situation should not continue for the benefit of both prties, but very easily could.
Id definitely consider recommending they chat with each other maybe via an intermediary or by letter initially, if the people making the noise are seen to mitigate it, then maybe the other person will feel something is/has been done and may not notice it as much (it being subjective)
They could sell the laminate online maybe??
Just a few ideas.

One thing with noise complaints is, if the affected party experiences it, and the other party does nothing, this only serves to strengthen the belief in the affected person that they are right.

Kadetady

In the lease is not saying anything about that laminated floors are prohibited! Is saying thought that if the floor is creating discomfort for the neighbours I will have to remove it!

athtrasna

Kadetady wrote: »

In the lease is not saying anything about that laminated floors are prohibited! Is saying thought that if the floor is creating discomfort for the neighbours I will have to remove it!

In that case you are looking at having to remove it. The management company will be negligent if they don't follow up on a complaint about noise. If the flooring is amplifying noise from the apartment it will have to go as it is breaching a condition of your lease.

jimmycrackcorm

ardmacha wrote: »

You could try and live in a manner that was not a nuisance to your neighbours, I suppose.

Come back after youvhave a couple of kids and tell us how that works...

Kadetady

JustAThought wrote: »

Don't apartments have to be built with solid concrete reinforced floors ? It's not just laminate on old ceilings - assuming this is a new build & not an old georgian/converted house?

Assuming this, the kids must be making a HUGE amount of noise to have a guy complaining through a reinforced steel & cement ceiling.

As for the " civic suite " of the family guy - this is nonsense - are you going to spend tens of thousands of euro protesting a neighbour through courts for him shouting at your wife however rudely? I mean - rapists get off with practically no sentence in this country - the other day a man with 95 previous CONVICTIONS was finally sentenced to 2 years - but only because of his 95 other convictions he posed a " real" threat. What do you think the courts will do to a man that shouted ?

It is much more likely that your neighbour will start recording the times & incidences of noise from your apartment & the fact that he was so frustrated in complaining that the guards were called ( further proof of the inconveniencd & disruption the noise is causing) . S/he can then take a this proof to the local district court and for the small sum of e20 have an action taken against you and your family for noise & continuous disruption via noise to their lawful expectation of enjoying their property. The family man will then end up with a court order against him. And if it continues ; an eviction order.

Or the kids could be controlled and told to keep their noise outputs down.

I would like to see how would u explaine this to a 3years old kid! To keep his noise output down! And by posting this matter here I was hoping that some people which had this problem would be able to give me an advice! I'm not planning to take my neighbour to court! Thanks for advice!

Carlito88

Eldrick Woods wrote: »

1) Speak with the management company.
2) Check the lease for the rules regarding wooden floors.
3) Force the person with the wooden floors to remove them.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Carlito88 wrote: »

Since you know the OP (or are the OP most likely, or the husband)
I'm going to safely assume that you've really fluffed that fact. Was it more like 10pm, or was the hoovering something more like shouting? Nobody complains about being able to hear a hoover, unless it's at an unreasonable time, or else if the hoover were to be being violently thrown around the apartment.

You won't gain anything but the support of people over the internet by lying on here, and that's not worth anything to your cause, so what's the whole story?

:D:D No frozenfrozen im a very close friend to the op and his wife, myself and my husband advised them to post here, to try and see what other peoples advice and experience... I was following the post and just had to reply, they are obviously too busy keeping the kids quiet this evening :) Because I also happen to work with the op and maintain daily contact with his wife I can assure u the hoovering took place at 7pm i would say very very latest at 8pm it was also in the middle of summer!!! :eek: There was no hoovers been thrown and no shouting...I completely understand your suspicions...
The only objective of this post is to find a solution.
I Feel pity for both parties involved, but of course i feel more for my friends, they are searchingand have been searching all avenues for a solution.

The_Morrigan

Kadetady wrote: »

I would like to see how would u explaine this to a 3years old kid! To keep his noise output down! And by posting this matter here I was hoping that some people which had this problem would be able to give me an advice! I'm not planning to take my neighbour to court! Thanks for advice!

Kadetady, just a point here, but Justathought saw the reference to the civil court proceedings in your friends post, who seems to be responding on your behalf all evening. Confusion at this point as to who is seeking the advice and Justathought was responding to Carlito88's posts, not yours.

Merch

Kadetady wrote: »

I would like to see how would u explaine this to a 3years old kid! To keep his noise output down! And by posting this matter here I was hoping that some people which had this problem would be able to give me an advice! I'm not planning to take my neighbour to court! Thanks for advice!

Children can make a lot of noise, its part of learning that they have things explained to and learn to understand how actions and consequences affect other people, a 3 year old can have things explained to them, certainly a 7 year old. If the flooring is amplifying their noise then its fair to think the other person shouldnt have to suffer this. Its quite possible that carpeting with carpet underlay would muffle the noises created, whereas a hard floor could easily be seen to amplify it
Id suggest investing in underlay and carpets. Maybe in a staged room by room process, ask the affected person where is the worst followed by the next and start there, tell them you will change it bit by bit??
They might appreciate that?

Carlito88

JustAThought wrote: »

Don't apartments have to be built with solid concrete reinforced floors ? It's not just laminate on old ceilings - assuming this is a new build & not an old georgian/converted house?

Assuming this, the kids must be making a HUGE amount of noise to have a guy complaining through a reinforced steel & cement ceiling.

As for the " civic suite " of the family guy - this is nonsense - are you going to spend tens of thousands of euro protesting a neighbour through courts for him shouting at your wife however rudely? I mean - rapists get off with practically no sentence in this country - the other day a man with 95 previous CONVICTIONS was finally sentenced to 2 years - but only because of his 95 other convictions he posed a " real" threat. What do you think the courts will do to a man that shouted ?

It is much more likely that your neighbour will start recording the times & incidences of noise from your apartment & the fact that he was so frustrated in complaining that the guards were called ( further proof of the inconveniencd & disruption the noise is causing) . S/he can then take a this proof to the local district court and for the small sum of e20 have an action taken against you and your family for noise & continuous disruption via noise to their lawful expectation of enjoying their property. The family man will then end up with a court order against him. And if it continues ; an eviction order.

Or the kids could be controlled and told to keep their noise outputs down.

This is the frustrating part, the children are not making HUGE ammounts of noise, the reality is that the man cant accept and wont accept ANY level of noise...His was obviously deluded to believe that Irish built apartment blocks would be sound proofed to the equal standards or more than his original country....

I said earlier that the gardai suggested to record his nusiance behavior and the only action possible would be to go to the civil court, which would cost the op about 20e. In relation to his abusive or "shouting" at the op wife, this is indeed harrassment which the gardai who on all occasions the OP has contacted has told off the neighbour and advised him not to approach the family in an agressive / abusive manner,

Merch

Carlito88 wrote: »

This is the frustrating part, the children are not making HUGE ammounts of noise, the reality is that the man cant accept and wont accept ANY level of noise...His was obviously deluded to believe that Irish built apartment blocks would be sound proofed to the equal standards or more than his original country....

I said earlier that the gardai suggested to record his nusiance behavior and the only action possible would be to go to the civil court, which would cost the op about 20e. In relation to his abusive or "shouting" at the op wife, this is indeed harrassment which the gardai who on all occasions the OP has contacted has told off the neighbour and advised him not to approach the family in an agressive / abusive manner,

How do you know they are not making huge amounts of noise? are you living there?
It sounds like he has a good case to complain to me.
Id suggest the OP is creating the nuisance behaviour, he only went to her once, the suggestion was the neighbour lost the rag once, his complaint about noise is then hardly harrasment, rather a complaint about noise pollution? if the OP has not done anything to remedy the situation except say kids make noise what can I do about my kids?
No doubt the quality of the construction may have played a part, but really it wasnt the neighbour that fitted laminate floors, Id have considered that before doing a wall to wall apartment coverage of laminate.

If I was him, Id not approach them either and go to the mngmt company,council and district court to enforce the OP to comply with requirements.

athtrasna

Carlito88 wrote: »

This is the frustrating part, the children are not making HUGE ammounts of noise, the reality is that the man cant accept and wont accept ANY level of noise...His was obviously deluded to believe that Irish built apartment blocks would be sound proofed to the equal standards or more than his original country....

But the point is that your friend, the OP, has installed flooring that is in breach of the legal lease they signed. Wooden flooring amplifies noise, carpetting absorbs it, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work that out. If there was carpet down and the neighbour made a complaint you could blame building standards or a cranky neighbour, but the wooden floor means that the OP is in the wrong regardless of either.

It's an expensive lesson to learn and is one that so many apartment owners have found. We are not conditioned in this country to live in high density and so things like this wouldn't occur to most people.

Carlito88

Merch wrote: »

How do you know they are not making huge amounts of noise? are you living there?
It sounds like he has a good case to complain to me.
Id suggest the OP is creating the nuisance behaviour, he only went to her once, the suggestion was the neighbour lost the rag once, his complaint about noise is then hardly harrasment, rather a complaint about noise pollution? if the OP has not done anything to remedy the situation except say kids make noise what can I do about my kids?
No doubt the quality of the construction may have played a part, but really it wasnt the neighbour that fitted laminate floors, Id have considered that before doing a wall to wall apartment coverage of laminate.

If I was him, Id not approach them either and go to the mngmt company,council and district court to enforce the OP to comply with requirements.

No im not living there, but we do spend alot of our spare time together, the 7 year old often stays with us,
the neighbour lost the rag two times, first in september and 2nd this week, and those two occasions were the only occasions when the op wife responded to the ceiling banging. It is the op that has contacted the managment company and gardai each time. The op and family are keeping all levels of noise to a minimum, and i do not believe that anyone could see them as a nusiance by simply living and making use of their private property, there rugs, no shoes, and no running policy also very hectic lifestyle, not cooped up all day making noise in the apartment. seems to me that the neighbour would want to get out a bit more...:)
The unhappy neighbour also has wooden floors and lives on the second floor, just thought id mention that...
The most important thing is to find solution prefferbly inexpensive one....

Carlito88

athtrasna wrote: »

But the point is that your friend, the OP, has installed flooring that is in breach of the legal lease they signed. Wooden flooring amplifies noise, carpetting absorbs it, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work that out. If there was carpet down and the neighbour made a complaint you could blame building standards or a cranky neighbour, but the wooden floor means that the OP is in the wrong regardless of either.

It's an expensive lesson to learn and is one that so many apartment owners have found. We are not conditioned in this country to live in high density and so things like this wouldn't occur to most people.

Possibly...it's certainly something to look into, however the neighbour who lives on the 2nd floor also has wooden floors....carpet was originally avoided mainly because the op's eldest son suffers from asthma...

FruitLover

Kadetady wrote: »

I would like to see how would u explaine this to a 3years old kid! To keep his noise output down!

It's your responsibility as a parent to keep your children under control

I don't think an apartment is any place to raise children in the first place, but while you're there, the very least you should be doing is trying to ensure they behave appropriately and trying to mitigate any noise transfer between apartments (e.g. the carpeting suggestions earlier in the thread).

Carlito88 wrote: »

the neighbour who lives on the 2nd floor also has wooden floors

Irrelevant if he doesn't have kids running around on said floors and hasn't had noise complaints made from the neighbours under him.

athtrasna

Carlito88 wrote: »

Possibly...it's certainly something to look into, however the neighbour who lives on the 2nd floor also has wooden floors....carpet was originally avoided mainly because the op's eldest son suffers from asthma...

Cushioned lino would be a good alternative and noise neutral. My sister has it in her place because of her asthma and living in an apartment.

Carlito88

FruitLover wrote: »

It's your responsibility as a parent to keep your children under control

I don't think an apartment is any place to raise children in the first place,

This is irrelevent, nobody asked if an apt is a place to raise children. Obviously it is.... There are many advantages to raising children in apartments however its not the topic being disscused, so i would suggest u go elsewhere fruitlover

Merch

Carlito88 wrote: »

the neighbour lost the rag two times, first in september and 2nd this week, and those two occasions were the only occasions when the op wife responded to the ceiling banging. It is the op that has contacted the managment company and gardai each time. The op and family are keeping all levels of noise to a minimum, and i do not believe that anyone could see them as a nusiance by simply living and making use of their private property, there rugs, no shoes, and no running policy also very hectic lifestyle, not cooped up all day making noise in the apartment. seems to me that the neighbour would want to get out a bit more...:)
The unhappy neighbour also has wooden floors and lives on the second floor, just thought id mention that...
The most important thing is to find solution prefferbly inexpensive one....

So september and this week, that does not constitute harrasment and it was also you say contributed by the OPs wife response, sounds like the other guy has reason to be unhappy, getting annoyed isnt the right answer for him though, he should proceed officially.
How do you know a person that your firend isnt on good terms with has wooden floors throughout their apartment, just curious, maybe they just have it in their hall? maybe they arent running up and down on it.
Im not being critical, but you dont seem to realise,your friends, while unwittingly and unintentionally seem to me to be the cause of this, its unfortunate but it seems to me to be the case.
The solution it seems is your friend is in breach of their lease and thus has to remove the flooring, despite your neighbour also having the same flooring, by not making noise or being complained against for creating a disturbance are not in breach.

Carlito88 wrote: »

Possibly...it's certainly something to look into, however the neighbour who lives on the 2nd floor also has wooden floors....carpet was originally avoided mainly because the op's eldest son suffers from asthma...

I see someone has recommended lino, there are lino styles that look like tiles. I am sure there probably are carpets and carpet underlay better for asthmatics but I wouldnt imagine they are cheap or as cheap as basic carpets and underlay. Sound like the lino could be an option. The OP doesnt seem to have looked into replacing the source that transmits and amplifies the noise, the offending flooring?

Carlito88 wrote: »

This is irrelevent, nobody asked if an apt is a place to raise children. Obviously it is.... There are many advantages to raising children in apartments however its not the topic being disscused, so i would suggest u go elsewhere fruitlover

There are? I'd disagree, out of curiosity, what are they?
Not in apartments i have seen in Ireland, maybe abroad, seen some nice places (standard) apartments with facilities for adults and kids.

apache

I will never understand why people with kids or pets live in apartments. I live in a big complex on a busy main road. The animals are cooped up 24/7 and the kids are not far behind.
Why would you want to do it?

Luckily enough i live in a duplex where the living area and kitchen is upstairs and the bedrooms downstairs so noise has to really travel through 2 floors so non existent really.

But if i had to put up with kids banging i'd flip too.

apache

Carlito88 wrote: »

This is irrelevent, nobody asked if an apt is a place to raise children. Obviously it is.... There are many advantages to raising children in apartments however its not the topic being disscused, so i would suggest u go elsewhere fruitlover

Its a big bone of contention for people who choose not to have kids yet have to endure the noise from them. I'd say its very much an issue in this thread.

Gatling

I rent an apartment with my partner and 2 kids why do we live in an apartment because its what we can afford to pay renting a house would break the bank and the back,
Where does it say your in breach of contract for having wooden floors the majority of apartment s i lived in in this country were fitted with wooden floors as standard there not illegal ,are poster's here actually living in apartment's renting or actually owning occupied

wolfpawnat

Kids cannot remain silent, they're children for goodness sake, and in their own home, they shouldn't have to. And regardless of the noise levels they were emitting, there is no need for the man's horrific behaviour.

that said

There is nothing worse than living under someone with wooden floors in a complex with little to no soundproofing. I am up early, but every day I here clip clop clip clop of high heels on wooden floors at 7am, when the harpy upstairs get ready for work. I fully support the whole "no wooden floors" thing. I think sound proofing should be to a higher standard here, seriously, I can tell what my neighbour is watching on TV!! last thing I want in the middle of a comedy is my 4 year old waking in tears because the neighbour is watching Jurassic Park at a reasonable level, only the apartment has toss all sound proofing.

apache

I own. I have wooden floors top and bottom like most of my neighbours. Dosen't say anything about it in my contract.

Merch

apache wrote: »

I will never understand why people with kids or pets live in apartments. I live in a big complex on a busy main road. The animals are cooped up 24/7 and the kids are not far behind.
Why would you want to do it?

cost id say.

Some people apply different rules to their kids, I think people dont know when or how to be authoritative but fair with kids, without stiffling their youth, development and letting them have fun, while not pissing people off.
Im sure its obvious, but I have sympathy for the other guy. Just because something doesnt affect one person or they dont care about it, doesnt mean it doesnt affect another, people should have consideration.
Apartments are run for ****e here, crap facilities, kids running up and down corridors is no place to play, Ive seen it in places.