Dairy Farming General

stanflt

keep going wrote: »

Good luck 2 with tail up should be done in an hour

4 calves last night-5more cows in the box

Greengrass1

Cow that had ecoli back this morning with more mastitis

whelan2

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Cow that had ecoli back this morning with more mastitis

as soon as her meat withdrawal comes clear, i would factory her.

frazzledhome

40 cows cleared CMT and antibiotic this am. Will relieve fair pressure on space. No cows out today whiteout here

Numbers of dry cows reducing fast

Greengrass1

whelan2 wrote: »

as soon as her meat withdrawal comes clear, i would factory her.

I would too.
Theres a calf in her though

Buford T. Justice XIX

awaywithyou wrote: »

is that in north kerry at all???

Aye, Ardfert.

Was thinking of selling up and letting land:D

Buford T. Justice XIX

awaywithyou wrote: »

is that in north kerry at all???

Aye, Ballyduff.

Was thinking of selling up and letting land:D

whelan2

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I would too.
Theres a calf in her though

held on to a high scc one last year as she was in calf, she calved down with a high scc again, sold her on for rearing calves .

stanflt

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Cow that had ecoli back this morning with more mastitis

two cases in the last week- both back in full milk on all four q

if theres a hard quarter the cow gets cobacton-flynixon and stomach tubed with canadol and water

when it clears it doesnt leave any scc problems

Timmaay

Could do with soil testing here, no fert out but decent bit of dung out in Oct and slurry in Jan. Have I missed the boat?

stanflt

Timmaay wrote: »

Could do with soil testing here, no fert out but decent bit of dung out in Oct and slurry in Jan. Have I missed the boat?

no

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Could do with soil testing here, no fert out but decent bit of dung out in Oct and slurry in Jan. Have I missed the boat?

No but I think you have to wait around three months after applying om or p&k to test. We did most of our ground in January and you've just reminded me that I need to do the rest now. Money well spent. You know what you need to target.

Timmaay

stanflt wrote: »

two cases in the last week- both back in full milk on all four q

if theres a hard quarter the cow gets cobacton-flynixon and stomach tubed with canadol and water

when it clears it doesnt leave any scc problems

Heifer in a bad way with it here now, will suggest the above to the vet

whelan2

stanflt wrote: »

two cases in the last week- both back in full milk on all four q

if theres a hard quarter the cow gets cobacton-flynixon and stomach tubed with canadol and water

when it clears it doesnt leave any scc problems

what is canadol? or is it chanatol?

Sacrolyte

whelan2 wrote: »

in calves fed with pooled colostrum protection will continue until colostrum feeding ceases, in naturally sucked calves, protection against rotavirus will persist for 7 days and for coronavirus fo at least 14 days

Thank you. Also I have often wondered if the cows milk will offer any protection in let's say 6/7 days after calving. Would be handy if it did for the tailenders. You seem to be expert on these things Mrs.

td5man

Any dairy farmers joining glas , got an invite from teagasc today to attend a meeting and be sure to bring the cheque book.

conor t

Dawggone wrote: »

It's coming in at €162/tonDM.

I'm a bit concerned as regards conserving it with first cut because my grass includes a lot of clover which is a b*stard to preserve at the best of times...its a risk you take when aiming for 20%+ protein.
It wouldn't be an option to put in maize pit.

its worth about 150-170 fresh weight, it will definitely need some sort of an additive going off those figures, an acid would preserve the protein better then adding molasses/beet (could give 25%more useable protein). I don't have a clue about costs or application

frazzledhome

td5man wrote: »

Any dairy farmers joining glas , got an invite from teagasc today to attend a meeting and be sure to bring the cheque book.

Yes, was in reps and looking into it.

td5man

frazzledhome wrote: »

Yes, was in reps and looking into it.

Is there a limit on N/ha?

C0N0R

frazzledhome wrote: »

Yes, was in reps and looking into it.

Feel free to report back your findings, we were in reps Too. Was a meeting in local teagasc office today but the father only showed me the letter mid morning

frazzledhome

td5man wrote: »

Is there a limit on N/ha?

Asking the wrong man. Will know next week

whelan2

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Thank you. Also I have often wondered if the cows milk will offer any protection in let's say 6/7 days after calving. Would be handy if it did for the tailenders. You seem to be expert on these things Mrs.

i dont know, i assume its offering protection on an ongoing basis, but first days biestings would be the best for the callf , like not giving milk from a 7 days calved cow to a newborn or is that what you are asking

Greengrass1

After buying a metricheck this morning. Be handy to check any cows ourselves now

Sacrolyte

Whats that gg.

Sacrolyte

whelan2 wrote: »

i dont know, i assume its offering protection on an ongoing basis, but first days biestings would be the best for the callf , like not giving milk from a 7 days calved cow to a newborn or is that what you are asking

Yeah was just wondering if it gave ongoing protection. I do all my cows with uneven nos. the rotavec one year and the even ones the next. I then pool this milk from the vaccinated cows for the calves for three weeks and after that they should be over the high risk period. Any newborn calf from an unvaccinated cow gets half her mothers colostrum and half from a vaccinated cow.

Greengrass1

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Whats that gg.

Metricheck Metricure Video: http://youtu.be/HxvXcnSAzg8

Sacrolyte

Great tool. I love it near the end when he says dirty. Then 30 dirty. Accent sounded funny.

jack o shea

Is it too late to spread lime lads? too close to grazing or does it matter much?

td5man

jack o shea wrote: »

Is it too late to spread lime lads? too close to grazing or does it matter much?

Spread away, probably too late for silage ground.

frazzledhome

jack o shea wrote: »

Is it too late to spread lime lads? too close to grazing or does it matter much?

We've lime to spread and will tip in silage pit when all stick leave yard.

Graze bare and spread hi mag lime

Greengrass1

Be sure you know what type of lime your farm needs.
All of wexford crazy high in mageneral ye can can do more damage than good if mag lime is spread here and not calcium lime

jack o shea

Does it need to be bare ground? How would you know which lime it needs? I got soil samples done but didnt notice anything like that on results.

visatorro

jack o shea wrote:

Does it need to be bare ground? How would you know which lime it needs? I got soil samples done but didnt notice anything like that on results.

ask teagasc lad or advisor, or stick them up here someone will point you in the right direction

Dawggone

Might stir a bit of debate...

An old friend rang yesterday...strong, self made merchant family that accumulated a lot of land and property assets in the last thirty odd years (local wisdom say they cycled into town on a bike). The catchment area he operates in is mainly tillage and dairy.
Anyhow we got talking about the general direction of agri in his area. He was telling me of lads going to €400/acre for land lease for 5 to 7 years!
Tillage men can't compete with this, bearing in mind that 50% of cereals are grown on conacre.
So...his thinking is that the milk price NOT dropping low this season could be the worst thing that could happen post quota. The brakes had been applied somewhat by Teagasc and the banks etc, but now he is forecasting a boom in dairy heretofore never seen before.
We discussed the amount of tillage farmers that will be left in the game and came up with seven families ( all owning 500+acres).
The conclusion he came to was...if he was starting out again he would be a "dog and stick" farmer with a mountain...

Blackgrass

Dawggone wrote: »

Might stir a bit of debate...

An old friend rang yesterday...strong, self made merchant family that accumulated a lot of land and property assets in the last thirty odd years (local wisdom say they cycled into town on a bike). The catchment area he operates in is mainly tillage and dairy.
Anyhow we got talking about the general direction of agri in his area. He was telling me of lads going to €400/acre for land lease for 5 to 7 years!
Tillage men can't compete with this, bearing in mind that 50% of cereals are grown on conacre.
So...his thinking is that the milk price NOT dropping low this season could be the worst thing that could happen post quota. The brakes had been applied somewhat by Teagasc and the banks etc, but now he is forecasting a boom in dairy heretofore never seen before.
We discussed the amount of tillage farmers that will be left in the game and came up with seven families ( all owning 500+acres).
The conclusion he came to was...if he was starting out again he would be a "dog and stick" farmer with a mountain...

-Crop of choice are bargain basement feed grains
-Very few have storage to get past the harvest tme drop in ireland as can't store away for 6 months or else pay very expensive storage costs
-Main markets are to co-ops who most definetly aren't going to upset their more valued customers
-Your lot has buggered malt barley:pac:
From the trough in 1st week of Sept - 1st week of feb there was a price difference of 45% for feed wheats as they were able to export alot into the Us east cost which is unheard of as had a poor wheat harvest there...
Don't think folk know the meaning of price volatility yet.
Differences in perishable goods vs 5 yr storage happly enough etc etc... but?!

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

Might stir a bit of debate...

An old friend rang yesterday...strong, self made merchant family that accumulated a lot of land and property assets in the last thirty odd years (local wisdom say they cycled into town on a bike). The catchment area he operates in is mainly tillage and dairy.
Anyhow we got talking about the general direction of agri in his area. He was telling me of lads going to €400/acre for land lease for 5 to 7 years!
Tillage men can't compete with this, bearing in mind that 50% of cereals are grown on conacre.
So...his thinking is that the milk price NOT dropping low this season could be the worst thing that could happen post quota. The brakes had been applied somewhat by Teagasc and the banks etc, but now he is forecasting a boom in dairy heretofore never seen before.
We discussed the amount of tillage farmers that will be left in the game and came up with seven families ( all owning 500+acres).
The conclusion he came to was...if he was starting out again he would be a "dog and stick" farmer with a mountain...

Firstly I reckon he's wrong on the boom never being seen before. We didn't own this farm when I was born. By the time quota came in around 10 years after the farm was bought we had around 5k litres/acre production on it. Not to bad when you consider any experience the oul boy had with cows was limited to 6/7 shorthorns in a tie up byre when he was a child. He was far from unique in this area certainly. Things would want to go completely mad to surpass that kind of expansion. Medium sized family farms going from bare land, small fields, no facilities to a cow/acre and fully paddocked in 8-10 years with only a fraction of the knowledge base available today. Most of them learned by making expensive mistakes and stayed going.

That said there were quite a few takers for the mulder buyout in the late seventies. More than one guy found that milking all these cows wasn't as much fun as they expected. I wouldn't bank on a buyout like that happening again.

Secondly fellas paying rents like that want their heads read they would be far better off letting their tillage farmer neighbours get the ground at reasonable rates, buying the feed from them and working out some swap on straw and slurry.

Sacrolyte

freedominacup wrote: »

Firstly I reckon he's wrong on the boom never being seen before. We didn't own this farm when I was born. By the time quota came in around 10 years after the farm was bought we had around 5k litres/acre production on it. Not to bad when you consider any experience the oul boy had with cows was limited to 6/7 shorthorns in a tie up byre when he was a child. He was far from unique in this area certainly. Things would want to go completely mad to surpass that kind of expansion. Medium sized family farms going from bare land, small fields, no facilities to a cow/acre and fully paddocked in 8-10 years with only a fraction of the knowledge base available today. Most of them learned by making expensive mistakes and stayed going.

That said there were quite a few takers for the mulder buyout in the late seventies. More than one guy found that milking all these cows wasn't as much fun as they expected. I wouldn't bank on a buyout like that happening again.

Secondly fellas paying rents like that want their heads read they would be far better off letting their tillage farmer neighbours get the ground at reasonable rates, buying the feed from them and working out some swap on straw and slurry.

Mulder didn't come into the equation until the ninetys and that was compensation for loss if income and delivering quota to those who were out of milk production in the 80s because of their involvement in the 4 year scheme in the late 70s. As far as I recall the scheme had a lot to do with getting rid of the scourge of brucellosis which was quite prevalent at the time. I think its this scheme your thinking about. I agree on your point about the rental. Whats the point of renting ground and the land owner not only getting his profit but YOURS also. Crazy.

visatorro

in all fairness tillage guys around here gave 700euro/acre for fresh ground for potatos. driving out livestock farmers. I don't really have much sympathy for them.

if a dairy farmer want to rent land for four hundred euro and maintain it, with my personal situation id be aswell renting out for five years, see how things go in milk production post quota and decide about getting back into milk production or not.

freedominacup

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Mulder didn't come into the equation until the ninetys and that was compensation for loss if income and delivering quota to those who were out of milk production in the 80s because of their involvement in the 4 year scheme in the late 70s. As far as I recall the scheme had a lot to do with getting rid of the scourge of brucellosis which was quite prevalent at the time. I think its this scheme your thinking about. I agree on your point about the rental. Whats the point of renting ground and the land owner not only getting his profit but YOURS also. Crazy.

You're probably right about the details of that scheme. It was Europe wide though and though it may have helped some with brucellosis problems it's primary aim was to cut production AFAIK. Plenty of those who availed of it never milked a cow again even after their quota was restored.

frazzledhome

Dawggone wrote: »

Might stir a bit of debate...

An old friend rang yesterday...strong, self made merchant family that accumulated a lot of land and property assets in the last thirty odd years (local wisdom say they cycled into town on a bike). The catchment area he operates in is mainly tillage and dairy.
Anyhow we got talking about the general direction of agri in his area. He was telling me of lads going to €400/acre for land lease for 5 to 7 years!
Tillage men can't compete with this, bearing in mind that 50% of cereals are grown on conacre.
So...his thinking is that the milk price NOT dropping low this season could be the worst thing that could happen post quota. The brakes had been applied somewhat by Teagasc and the banks etc, but now he is forecasting a boom in dairy heretofore never seen before.
We discussed the amount of tillage farmers that will be left in the game and came up with seven families ( all owning 500+acres).
The conclusion he came to was...if he was starting out again he would be a "dog and stick" farmer with a mountain...

Spot on

Was offered c470 acres for 20 yrs this week for €300/ acre. This is absolutely top if the range land 100% tillage and well run all index 3&4 with 6.3 ph.

At the meeting I asked why not lease to local tillage man as we're 1 hr from the area. I was told they'd only pay €250 per acre .

He wanted a dairy farmer as they could/would pay more

There will be business' struggle in the next few years if milking cows is viewed as the next gold rush. Not saying that people shouldn't expand or grow but at a sustainable pace with a close eye on debt management

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

Secondly fellas paying rents like that want their heads read they would be far better off letting their tillage farmer neighbours get the ground at reasonable rates, buying the feed from them and working out some swap on straw and slurry.

Freedom, I would think that you would know well the man I was talking to. Far, far, from a fool...
You obviously remember the damage done to farmers piling on huge debts in the seventies...some cheap land bought afterwards...:(

Likewise we went from 40cows and 125acres of tillage to 120cows and 400acres tillage in the seventies...

Totally agree with your last paragraph....
Lads rocking into banks with deeds in hand....sometimes leads to a rush of blood to the head!

Conversely will you be kicking your own ass for not jumping in on leased land when it was 'only' €400/acre?

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Spot on

Was offered c470 acres for 20 yrs this week for €300/ acre. This is absolutely top if the range land 100% tillage and well run all index 3&4 with 6.3 ph.

At the meeting I asked why not lease to local tillage man as we're 1 hr from the area. I was told they'd only pay €250 per acre .

He wanted a dairy farmer as they could/would pay more

There will be business' struggle in the next few years if milking cows is viewed as the next gold rush. Not saying that people shouldn't expand or grow but at a sustainable pace with a close eye on debt management

+1.

Dawggone

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Mulder didn't come into the equation until the ninetys and that was compensation for loss if income and delivering quota to those who were out of milk production in the 80s because of their involvement in the 4 year scheme in the late 70s. As far as I recall the scheme had a lot to do with getting rid of the scourge of brucellosis which was quite prevalent at the time. I think its this scheme your thinking about. I agree on your point about the rental. Whats the point of renting ground and the land owner not only getting his profit but YOURS also. Crazy.

Half correct on Mulder...I scored on that too.
Brucellosis in early eighties....depopulation....cash in hand to get out for 5years ( I think, maybe more)....quotas came in before scheme was over....European court case... quotas reinstated including compo...happy days!! Back in milk in 89.
Sure 'twas mad really because no other farming sector was looked after as well as dairy.

frazzledhome

Had a good laugh here this morning. To set the scene we have a guy here who along with me looks after calves.

We slag this guy that he must be transgender or a transvestite at least because his level of hygiene, patience and care for calves could only be matched by a woman.

Anyway he was feeding the babies and I was in the "sin bin" as we call it, a shed for hi dependency calves. I was feeding these and I spotted to chainsaw and decided to have a bit of craic.

I started shouting at a calf and swearing loudly pretending I couldn't feed it. Started saw and cut through a pallet for effect. Switched it off and shouted "the rest if ye will drink tonight"

Yer man ran from where he was like a dog on Lino roaring at me to go away and do something else. He ran from pen to pen to find the butchered calf. Don't think he'll be the better if it for a while.

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Had a good laugh here this morning. To set the scene we have a guy here who along with me looks after calves.

We slag this guy that he must be transgender or a transvestite at least because his level of hygiene, patience and care for calves could only be matched by a woman.

Anyway he was feeding the babies and I was in the "sin bin" as we call it, a shed for hi dependency calves. I was feeding these and I spotted to chainsaw and decided to have a bit of craic.

I started shouting at a calf and swearing loudly pretending I couldn't feed it. Started saw and cut through a pallet for effect. Switched it off and shouted "the rest if ye will drink tonight"

Yer man ran from where he was like a dog on Lino roaring at me to go away and do something else. He ran from pen to pen to find the butchered calf. Don't think he'll be the better if it for a while.

Pure class!
Should have got a vid for us!!

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Spot on

Was offered c470 acres for 20 yrs this week for €300/ acre. This is absolutely top if the range land 100% tillage and well run all index 3&4 with 6.3 ph.



Out of interest Frazz was the rent fixed over the 20years?
Or is it index linked?
Or upwards only?
Or linked to milk/wheat etc prices?
SFP inc?

I'd not run too far if it was fixed for 20 years...:)

Sorry for being nosey.

kowtow

Sacrolyte wrote: »

I agree on your point about the rental. Whats the point of renting ground and the land owner not only getting his profit but YOURS also. Crazy.

It's inevitable in a system where the land around existing dairy farms is designated by the system as the sole input for future expansion. Milk from grass dictates that we must produce for a liquid (forgive the pun) and volatile market using the most illiquid input imaginable.

Future (expected) profits are capitalised, front loaded into the value of land, for rent or for purchase. Vendor or landlord gets the risk free share, and the operator is left with the risk and the losses.

Difficult to imagine a more leveraged high risk expansion strategy.

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

frazzledhome wrote: »

Spot on

I'd not run too far if it was fixed for 20 years...:)

+1

Although I'd want a mandatory break on the re-introduction of the punt.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Sacrolyte wrote: »

Mulder didn't come into the equation until the ninetys and that was compensation for loss if income and delivering quota to those who were out of milk production in the 80s because of their involvement in the 4 year scheme in the late 70s. As far as I recall the scheme had a lot to do with getting rid of the scourge of brucellosis which was quite prevalent at the time. I think its this scheme your thinking about. I agree on your point about the rental. Whats the point of renting ground and the land owner not only getting his profit but YOURS also. Crazy.

freedominacup wrote: »

You're probably right about the details of that scheme. It was Europe wide though and though it may have helped some with brucellosis problems it's primary aim was to cut production AFAIK. Plenty of those who availed of it never milked a cow again even after their quota was restored.

Dawggone wrote: »

Half correct on Mulder...I scored on that too.
Brucellosis in early eighties....depopulation....cash in hand to get out for 5years ( I think, maybe more)....quotas came in before scheme was over....European court case... quotas reinstated including compo...happy days!! Back in milk in 89.
Sure 'twas mad really because no other farming sector was looked after as well as dairy.

To clarify a few points on Mulder Quotas, there were two principal schemes in Ireland for control of Brucellosis, which the Mulder quotas came in under from a European perspective, the Cessation of Milking scheme (SLOM 1) and the Conversion to Beef scheme(SLOM2).

We were cleared of 140 pregnant females in 1980 and chose the Mulder 1(SLOM 1) because it contained a clause confirming the ability to return to milk production at the end of the 5 year scheme once all females were removed and not replaced by ANY female for 5 years. You could continue to farm with any type of enterprise as long as no female was included. Mulder 2 (SLOM 2) was different in that that you must convert to beef farming. I think sucklers were included after a certain time lapse. Iirc, it also had higher compensation due to not being guaranteed a return to milk production.

Kerry was particularly hard hit as it was the pilot area for Brucellosis control and had far higher numbers in the schemes than most other counties. The vast majority of those in the Milk Quota Action Group in Kerry, which helped finance the court case, went back into milk production subsequently and remain in milk production.

The case was won in 1986 and Mulder 1 farmers were allowed to return to milk production in April 1987 and were 'compensated' in 1988, for quotas held in the year prior to the disease breakdown (without including the double digit milk production increase carried out in non diseased herds in the base quotas and also at the dire fat levels in the milk due to disease).

Bit of social history for yez:p

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Future (expected) profits are capitalised, front loaded into the value of land, for rent or for purchase. Vendor or landlord gets the risk free share, and the operator is left with the risk and the losses.

Difficult to imagine a more leveraged high risk expansion strategy.

+++1. Kowtow you can explain so much better...!