Dairy Farming General

freedominacup

frazzledhome wrote: »

Spot on

Was offered c470 acres for 20 yrs this week for €300/ acre. This is absolutely top if the range land 100% tillage and well run all index 3&4 with 6.3 ph.

At the meeting I asked why not lease to local tillage man as we're 1 hr from the area. I was told they'd only pay €250 per acre .

He wanted a dairy farmer as they could/would pay more

There will be business' struggle in the next few years if milking cows is viewed as the next gold rush. Not saying that people shouldn't expand or grow but at a sustainable pace with a close eye on debt management

So they looked you in the eye and told you that they wanted you as a tenant because they reckoned you'd spread your cheeks wider and not complain about the lack of vaseline.

Buford T. Justice XIX

freedominacup wrote: »

So they looked you in the eye and told you that they wanted you as a tenant because they reckoned you'd spread your cheeks wider and not complain about the lack of vaseline.

That's not an image i want in my head before i go back farming:eek::D

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

Freedom, I would think that you would know well the man I was talking to. Far, far, from a fool...
You obviously remember the damage done to farmers piling on huge debts in the seventies...some cheap land bought afterwards...:(

Likewise we went from 40cows and 125acres of tillage to 120cows and 400acres tillage in the seventies...

Totally agree with your last paragraph....
Lads rocking into banks with deeds in hand....sometimes leads to a rush of blood to the head!

Conversely will you be kicking your own ass for not jumping in on leased land when it was 'only' €400/acre?

I don't think I implied anyone was a fool dawg.

I'm getting on a bit but thankfully my memories of the seventies are fairly vague and would mainly be school or gaa related.

orm0nd

anybody at nenagh show & sale yesterday ??

heard there were some lively prices

Dawggone

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

To clarify a few points on Mulder Quotas, there were two principal schemes in Ireland for control of Brucellosis, which the Mulder quotas came in under from a European perspective, the Cessation of Milking scheme (SLOM 1) and the Conversion to Beef scheme(SLOM2).

We were cleared of 140 pregnant females in 1980 and chose the Mulder 1(SLOM 1) because it contained a clause confirming the ability to return to milk production at the end of the 5 year scheme once all females were removed and not replaced by ANY female for 5 years. You could continue to farm with any type of enterprise as long as no female was included. Mulder 2 (SLOM 2) was different in that that you must convert to beef farming. I think sucklers were included after a certain time lapse. Iirc, it also had higher compensation due to not being guaranteed a return to milk production.

Kerry was particularly hard hit as it was the pilot area for Brucellosis control and had far higher numbers in the schemes than most other counties. The vast majority of those in the Milk Quota Action Group in Kerry, which helped finance the court case, went back into milk production subsequently and remain in milk production.

The case was won in 1986 and Mulder 1 farmers were allowed to return to milk production in April 1987 and were 'compensated' in 1988, for quotas held in the year prior to the disease breakdown (without including the double digit milk production increase carried out in non diseased herds in the base quotas and also at the dire fat levels in the milk due to disease).

Bit of social history for yez:p

+1. Oh the memories...:)
I was Slom1.
Sure twas great as we got paid to get out of dairy and paid to get back in.
Did you get a good "touch" in '88?
There was no complaints from me!
Jeez quota was a licence to print those days and 'made' many farmers on marginal land. A fact overlooked by most on here.

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

I don't think I implied anyone was a fool dawg.

I'm getting on a bit but thankfully my memories of the seventies are fairly vague and would mainly be school or gaa related.

You didn't imply that anyone was a fool Free, it's my way of saying that he is a good businessman.
If anyone is the fool its me, to be still at the game.

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Dawggone wrote: »

+1

Although I'd want a mandatory break on the re-introduction of the punt.

Can you see the breakdown of the Euro?

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

kowtow wrote: »

Can you see the breakdown of the Euro?

Without full political integration (i.e. taxation by Brussels / Berlin) there is no earthly way a single currency can function properly. So absent that, in a 20 year lease like the one described above, I wouldn't want to rule it out.

And you don't want to be left paying an inflated rent in punt just when Irish dairy could really be taking off.

farmersfriend

frazzledhome wrote: »

Had a good laugh here this morning. To set the scene we have a guy here who along with me looks after calves.

We slag this guy that he must be transgender or a transvestite at least because his level of hygiene, patience and care for calves could only be matched by a woman.

Anyway he was feeding the babies and I was in the "sin bin" as we call it, a shed for hi dependency calves. I was feeding these and I spotted to chainsaw and decided to have a bit of craic.

I started shouting at a calf and swearing loudly pretending I couldn't feed it. Started saw and cut through a pallet for effect. Switched it off and shouted "the rest if ye will drink tonight"

Yer man ran from where he was like a dog on Lino roaring at me to go away and do something else. He ran from pen to pen to find the butchered calf. Don't think he'll be the better if it for a while.

Priceless!!

Greengrass1

Dawggone wrote: »

+1. Oh the memories...:)
I was Slom1.
Sure twas great as we got paid to get out of dairy and paid to get back in.
Did you get a good "touch" in '88?
There was no complaints from me!
Jeez quota was a licence to print those days and 'made' many farmers on marginal land. A fact overlooked by most on here.

Was the money that was used to pay back ye mulder lads back not taken off the farmers milk?
Or the quota ye got back taken off other farmers

Sacrolyte

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was the money that was used to pay back ye mulder lads back not taken off the farmers milk?
Or the quota ye got back taken off other farmers

A common misconception.

kevthegaff

orm0nd wrote: »

anybody at nenagh show & sale yesterday ??

heard there were some lively prices

Heard heifers were between 1900 and 3800 didnt hear about the quality, cousin bought heifers incalf in oct for 1k. If I wasnt buying land and building sheds...

frazzledhome

Sacrolyte wrote: »

A common misconception.

Point of information

Wrong, any body with more than 100k gallons had 13% of their quota confiscated. No not a misconception. You are correct monies were not collected.

I have the paper work to back this up. Where do you think the quota came from

Markcheese

kowtow wrote: »

It's inevitable in a system where the land around existing dairy farms is designated by the system as the sole input for future expansion. Milk from grass dictates that we must produce for a liquid (forgive the pun) and volatile market using the most illiquid input imaginable.

Future (expected) profits are capitalised, front loaded into the value of land, for rent or for purchase. Vendor or landlord gets the risk free share, and the operator is left with the risk and the losses.

Difficult to imagine a more leveraged high risk expansion strategy.

Always thought the tax breaks for farm leasing should have been heaped on share farming - rather than 400 a year rent - it'd be a % share of annual or monthly profits -
At least a guy wouldn't go bust on a bad bad year-

kowtow

Markcheese wrote: »

Always thought the tax breaks for farm leasing should have been heaped on share farming - rather than 400 a year rent - it'd be a % share of annual or monthly profits -
At least a guy wouldn't go bust on a bad bad year-

The loopholes in the tax free rental scheme are mind-boggling. I'm surprised a whole industry hasn't sprung up to exploit them...

You can tell just how dysfunctional the market is when rents continue to rise above €300 / acre even after an additional 40% + subsidy is announced for the landlord in the form of a tax free lease.

"Extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds" should be the first book on the reading list for the Green Cert.

orm0nd

kevthegaff wrote: »

Heard heifers were between 1900 and 3800 didnt hear about the quality, cousin bought heifers incalf in oct for 1k. If I wasnt buying land and building sheds...

think it was the red heifer here that made 3800


http://www.donedeal.ie/dairycattle-for-sale/red-white-calved-heifer/8807800?offset=10

Greengrass1

orm0nd wrote: »

think it was the red heifer here that made 3800


http://www.donedeal.ie/dairycattle-for-sale/red-white-calved-heifer/8807800?offset=10

Tbf they are nice stock
I've 5 red and white maiden heifers here if anyone wants to give me 3800 for them next spring ill take there hand and all

freedominacup

frazzledhome wrote: »

Point of information

Wrong, any body with more than 100k gallons had 13% of their quota confiscated. No not a misconception. You are correct monies were not collected.

I have the paper work to back this up. Where do you think the quota came from

Used to be a very sore point around here. Esp on top of the initial cut imposed as soon as quotas came in. Basically the same type of cut imposed on the same farmers now on sfp with the same areas benefiting.

frazzledhome

freedominacup wrote: »

Used to be a very sore point around here. Esp on top of the initial cut imposed as soon as quotas came in. Basically the same type of cut imposed on the same farmers now on sfp with the same areas benefiting.

Neither am I going to get into a SFP debate or bemoan a confiscation, mearly point it out for clarity!!!

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Without full political integration (i.e. taxation by Brussels / Berlin) there is no earthly way a single currency can function properly. So absent that, in a 20 year lease like the one described above, I wouldn't want to rule it out.

And you don't want to be left paying an inflated rent in punt just when Irish dairy could really be taking off.

Dammit full political integration is never going to happen, but a loose economic structure may be possible....

Dawggone

frazzledhome wrote: »

Point of information

Wrong, any body with more than 100k gallons had 13% of their quota confiscated. No not a misconception. You are correct monies were not collected.

I have the paper work to back this up. Where do you think the quota came from

Now now Frazz quota was never meant to be a personal asset...Brussels giveth and Brussels taketh away.

Btw thanks for the quota... I made a ball of money when I eventually sold it! :)

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

Dammit full political integration is never going to happen, but a loose economic structure may be possible....

Perfectly possible, preferable actually. But not with a single currency.

A paper currency is the embodiment of sovereignty.. it's sole value is the share it represents of present and future claims on the resources and productivity of a country, via taxation. To function, the sovereign requires budgetary & tax raising powers... in the final analysis currency is no more than sovereignty and sovereignty is really no more than currency.

Partial sovereignty - Brussels calls it euphemistically "shared" sovereignty - is a lovely concept, but it is a convenient fiction which - as we see with Greece - has it's limitations. Sooner or later our children will have to decide between full, federal, political integration or dismantling the Euro zone and returning to sanity.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was the money that was used to pay back ye mulder lads back not taken off the farmers milk?
Or the quota ye got back taken off other farmers

frazzledhome wrote: »

Point of information

Wrong, any body with more than 100k gallons had 13% of their quota confiscated. No not a misconception. You are correct monies were not collected.

I have the paper work to back this up. Where do you think the quota came from

I'll have to bow to Frazzled knowledge on where the quota came from, but i have a vague recollection of talking to Paud Evans from the Dept unit saying that the quota we got was quota due to be cancelled anyway, but same difference on the source anyway.

I still remember the exact gallonage and butterfat we were allocated then and had to fill 60% by the end the quota year of 1987/1988. There were a lot of 'creative' leases done at the time to fill the quota which were questioned by the Dept only to be confirmed as valid in 1989.

It was great craic driving in a bunch of suckler cows to be milked the first morning, I still have the scars:D

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Perfectly possible, preferable actually. But not with a single currency.

A paper currency is the embodiment of sovereignty.. it's sole value is the share it represents of present and future claims on the resources and productivity of a country, via taxation. To function, the sovereign requires budgetary & tax raising powers... in the final analysis currency is no more than sovereignty and sovereignty is really no more than currency.

Partial sovereignty - Brussels calls it euphemistically "shared" sovereignty - is a lovely concept, but it is a convenient fiction which - as we see with Greece - has it's limitations. Sooner or later our children will have to decide between full, federal, political integration or dismantling the Euro zone and returning to sanity.

Yes. Fiat currency does have to have belief for it to work...however belief does have big religious connotations

I think that sooner rather than later the whole Euro project will come to a head. Is there any easy way for the Euro to return to a basket of currencies?
The Greek issue is not being addressed but is being prolonged. This suits the Germans because if they return to the Mark it would be waaay to strong and would destroy their exports. A weak euro suits for now, but the emergence of the extreme right/left is unsettling.

I think that europe can only kick the can down the road for so long...we may have to decide about the currency, not our children.
The thought of a Euro collapse is frightening.

Dawggone

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I'll have to bow to Frazzled knowledge on where the quota came from, but i have a vague recollection of talking to Paud Evans from the Dept unit saying that the quota we got was quota due to be cancelled anyway, but same difference on the source anyway.

I still remember the exact gallonage and butterfat we were allocated then and had to fill 60% by the end the quota year of 1987/1988. There were a lot of 'creative' leases done at the time to fill the quota which were questioned by the Dept only to be confirmed as valid in 1989.

It was great craic driving in a bunch of suckler cows to be milked the first morning, I still have the scars:D

Why did you bother trying to get yourself battered Sherrif?
All you needed at that time was a working milk tank and a discreet advert on the local rag...easy money!

Buford T. Justice XIX

Dawggone wrote: »

Why did you bother trying to get yourself battered Sherrif?
All you needed at that time was a working milk tank and a discreet advert on the local rag...easy money!

We wouldn't have made the 60% rule. And the father wouldn't have been the most affable of men when dealing with the local Dept man:D

I was still in college and used come down early on a friday to meet the Dept and soothe any ruffled feathers from the week before. So everything had to be properly done.

The down side is i used up all my patience then and am definitely my fathers son now:(

Some of us just like hardship, i guess:pac:

Dawggone

Blackgrass..."Don't think folk know the meaning of price volatility yet"



Quotas sheltered folk from a lot of very harsh realities.

Greengrass1

Dawggone wrote: »

Why did you bother trying to get yourself battered Sherrif?
All you needed at that time was a working milk tank and a discreet advert on the local rag...easy money!

Any thing we ever tried we always got caught.
Dad filled the neighbours quota one yr aswell as our own and he got caught
Late 90s then he got caught for super levy too. Think he said fine was equivalent of 35c.

As well as that the yrs before quota came in the granny went and cut back 20 cows.
The oul lad never had a simple life

Dawggone

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

We wouldn't have made the 60% rule. And the father wouldn't have been the most affable of men when dealing with the local Dept man:D

I was still in college and used come down early on a friday to meet the Dept and soothe any ruffled feathers from the week before. So everything had to be properly done.

The down side is i used up all my patience then and am definitely my fathers son now:(

Some of us just like hardship, i guess:pac:

Ah yes indeed. There was some very easy money made from '84 'till now...

New reality will sort a lot of men from boys.
It does get harder to suffer fools....

Dawggone

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Any thing we ever tried we always got caught.
Dad filled the neighbours quota one yr aswell as our own and he got caught
Late 90s then he got caught for super levy too. Think he said fine was equivalent of 35c.

As well as that the yrs before quota came in the granny went and cut back 20 cows.
The oul lad never had a simple life

"Valley of tears" there Gg.
Fair dues for still being in business.

Greengrass1

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/the-men-who-soldiered-with-quota-175979/
Very apt for this discussion

Dawggone

Well well, AIB makes a profit of over a Billion...amazing how the rise in property values increases the value of the banks...carefull now...!

Did Kowtow say "my oh my how we love a boom".
And an election around the corner...:)


Predictable.

just do it

kevthegaff wrote: »

Heard heifers were between 1900 and 3800 didnt hear about the quality, cousin bought heifers incalf in oct for 1k. If I wasnt buying land and building sheds...

That's what I'm hearing, the time to buy was late '14. The boat has left the bay.

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Tbf they are nice stock
I've 5 red and white maiden heifers here if anyone wants to give me 3800 for them next spring ill take there hand and all

I'll give you 3.8, but I want 3 back as luck penny :D

Greengrass1

just do it wrote: »

That's what I'm hearing, the time to buy was late '14. The boat has left the bay.

How's your plans coming along?

just do it

Dawggone wrote: »

Yes. Fiat currency does have to have belief for it to work...however belief does have big religious connotations

I think that sooner rather than later the whole Euro project will come to a head. Is there any easy way for the Euro to return to a basket of currencies?
The Greek issue is not being addressed but is being prolonged. This suits the Germans because if they return to the Mark it would be waaay to strong and would destroy their exports. A weak euro suits for now, but the emergence of the extreme right/left is unsettling.

I think that europe can only kick the can down the road for so long...we may have to decide about the currency, not our children.
The thought of a Euro collapse is frightening.

Europe. Managment by committee has never worked. Europe is a committee with 27 members, and far from equal members....

Fear of the breakup will keep it together for a good while though

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

How's your plans coming along?

Not being able to supply until April 1st meant I couldn't buy while stock was cheap and another opportunity has come my way in the meantime. So looking like I'm back to the original plan of milking in '16 or '17. Have a lot of research done in the last few months and it's still the goal I'm working towards.

I remember posting about 2 months ago that I hoped the optimism on milk price wouldn't return until May. Unfortunately it reared it's head too soon.

Greengrass1

just do it wrote: »

Not being able to supply until April 1st meant I couldn't buy while stock was cheap and another opportunity has come my way in the meantime. So looking like I'm back to the original plan of milking in '16 or '17. Have a lot of research done in the last few months and it's still the goal I'm working towards.

I remember posting about 2 months ago that I hoped the optimism on milk price wouldn't return until May. Unfortunately it reared it's head too soon.

Hard luck.
One bulk tank being replaced here next week with bigger one. Hope we can get the big one and parlour sorted before August

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Hard luck.
One bulk tank being replaced here next week with bigger one. Hope we can get the big one and parlour sorted before August

When are you expecting to install the new parlour? It's been put back a bit by the sounds of it

Buford T. Justice XIX

Dawggone wrote: »

Ah yes indeed. There was some very easy money made from '84 'till now...

New reality will sort a lot of men from boys.
It does get harder to suffer fools....

It's going to be an interesting 5 years ahead. We are heading down the road of 1 tenant, many landlords after just surviving 1 landlord, many tenants.

I was talking to my father about Muller quotas and he reminded me of a good tale.

A relation qualified for Mulder quota but hadn't any milking equipment left which was one of the requirements. On the day of the inspection he took the inspector down the field and into a neighbours yard following a path his kids had made. He showed him around the neighbours yard and parlour and said nothing to the neighbours. He got passed too, the chancer:-)

Dawggone

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's going to be an interesting 5 years ahead. We are heading down the road of 1 tenant, many landlords after just surviving 1 landlord, many tenants.

I was talking to my father about Muller quotas and he reminded me of a good tale.

A relation qualified for Mulder quota but hadn't any milking equipment left which was one of the requirements. On the day of the inspection he took the inspector down the field and into a neighbours yard following a path his kids had made. He showed him around the neighbours yard and parlour and said nothing to the neighbours. He got passed too, the chancer:-)

In fairness I had every intention of going back into milk in '85. Parlour done up etc. and I had bought incalf heifers but not allowed to produce at the time...:(

Off now to Lyon, a 16 hour round trip. I'm getting too old for this shyte...

visatorro

Dawggone wrote:

Off now to Lyon, a 16 hour round trip. I'm getting too old for this shyte...

old dawg for the hard road!

Dawggone

visatorro wrote: »

old dawg for the hard road!

That just about says it...

Blackgrass

Dawggone wrote: »

Blackgrass..."Don't think folk know the meaning of price volatility yet"



Quotas sheltered folk from a lot of very harsh realities.

May be protected people from themselves?

Greengrass1

Based on what winter millers I served thar I've seen bulling or haven't seen bulling
I reckon I have 6.6% empty after 6.5 wks Ai.
And 75% conception to first serve.
brilliant going considering it was only 2 yrs ago we were calving for basicly 8 mths of the yr.

Aim now is to get as good conception rate in spring herd

frazzledhome

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Based on what winter millers I served thar I've seen bulling or haven't seen bulling
I reckon I have 6.6% empty after 6.5 wks Ai.
And 75% conception to first serve.
brilliant going considering it was only 2 yrs ago we were calving for basicly 8 mths of the yr.

Aim now is to get as good conception rate in spring herd

All about mgt not the cow

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

All about mgt not the cow

Spot on. Cow was never the problem. Was mineral related.
and a bit of enthusiasm and energy which dad ran out of

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Spot on. Cow was never the problem. Was mineral related.
and a bit of enthusiasm and energy which dad ran out of

Did you identify deficiency through blood tests or by trial and error?

Greengrass1

just do it wrote: »

Did you identify deficiency through blood tests or by trial and error?

Phosphate always new it was the problem. Couldn't grow enough grass either which contributed to it aswell

were using mins in water only going with trace elimnets from now on and going to use these phos blocks we have been using

kowtow

Dawggone wrote: »

...we may have to decide about the currency, not our children.
The thought of a Euro collapse is frightening.

It's interesting (sinister?) the effort and money being funnelled by Europe into persuading children in our schools that there is such a thing as a "European citizen"

When my 11yo old daughter arrived in Ireland she hit trouble on almost the first day - in a CSPE class, whatever that might be... the conversation (related to me later) went something like

Child: "I'll check with my Father if you like, but I think you'll find I'm not a b***dy European citizen"

Teacher: "We are all European Citizens now T*******, and you of all people, you speak German & French as well as English"

Child: "Swiss German!, Swiss French!"