Did humans really evolve from fish?

Kettleson

Is it conceivable that a random prawn or mackerel swimming around in our seas today, will have a distant relative who, in 3 or 4 million years time will have invented their equivalent of the iPad?

MadsL

Kettleson wrote: »

Is it conceivable that a random prawn or mackerel swimming around in our seas today, will have a distant relative who, in 3 or 4 million years time wil have invented their equivalent of the iPad?

No. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

/end of thread

smcgiff

Kettleson wrote: »

Is it conceivable that a random prawn or mackerel swimming around in our seas today, will have a distant relative who, in 3 or 4 million years time will have invented their equivalent of the iPad?

Why would they bother inventing something that was invented 3 or 4 million years ago. Dumb future Prawn.

pebbles21

Steve Cods maybe?

PhlegmyMoses

One thing I have noticed recently is the fairly limited knowledge a decent number of Irish people have about evolution and how it works. It has to be because we mostly went to church affiliated schools. I had a decent teacher in primary school that explained it pretty well and didn't load on the Adam and Eve stuff when doing religion.

I was at the Natural History Museum in London at the weekend and I visited the Darwin centre. It's fairly immense. Millions of different examples of every species you can think of pickled and stored. Worth checking out if anyone is ever over there.

Kettleson

I hope there was a section on Thai Curried Prawns.

Gloomtastic!

You have 83% of a banana's DNA because you are related to a banana. You are related to every living thing on this planet. It's mind boggling but true.

Doctor Strange

Kettleson wrote: »

Is it conceivable that a random prawn or mackerel swimming around in our seas today, will have a distant relative who, in 3 or 4 million years time will have invented their equivalent of the iPad?

No. We share a common ancestor hundreds of millions of years ago. People really need to understand evolution better. If you have any questions, post them and I'll do my best to answer them.

Biggins

Kettleson wrote: »

Is it conceivable that a random prawn or mackerel swimming around in our seas today, will have a distant relative who, in 3 or 4 million years time will have invented their equivalent of the iPad?

You have got to be codding!

Hang on - I'll ask the actor Paul Rudd.

Kettleson

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You have 83% of a banana's DNA because you are related to a banana. You are related to every living thing on this planet. It's mind boggling but true.

No! Really! That's nuts! Could we be related to pecans as well?

Biggins

Kettleson wrote: »

No! Really! That's nuts! Could we be related to pecans as well?

Well some of us are nuts!

MrStuffins

Of all of the books, of all of the scientific studies, of all of the peer reviewed pieces of work, of all the material you could've looked up to find an answer for this question............... you decided to ask it on After Hours?

THIS is why you don't know much!

Doc Ruby

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

One thing I have noticed recently is the fairly limited knowledge a decent number of Irish people have about evolution and how it works. It has to be because we mostly went to church affiliated schools.

There's always one. As much as I hate defending the church, being against evolution and science in general is not among their many sins, so you are full of shite my friend.

Stinicker

No, God created people haven't you ever heard of creationism?

PhlegmyMoses

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You have 83% of a banana's DNA because you are related to a banana. You are related to every living thing on this planet. It's mind boggling but true.

Curiously, and this is only something I've learned recently, but genetically, paedophiles have more in common with crabs than they do with you or me. It's not scientifically proven, it's just fact.

MrStuffins

Doc Ruby wrote: »

There's always one. As much as I hate defending the church, being against evolution and science in general is not among their many sins, so you are full of shite my friend.

I think you'll find it is, at least at certian levels.

The RCC DO NOT believe that human beings evolved from anything. They believe Human Beings were created. Is this not true?

phasers

no some of them stayed in the water and some of them jumped out and turned into monkeys.

Then some of the monkeys decided to stay as monkeys and some decided that they didn't like being hairy and eating bananas so they turned into people.

Kettleson

MrStuffins wrote: »

Of all of the books, of all of the scientific studies, of all of the peer reviewed pieces of work, of all the material you could've looked up to find an answer for this question............... you decided to ask it on After Hours?

THIS is why you don't know much!

You have a point, however my relatives, the Dover Soles, we're not blessed with high levels of intelligence. You cant escape genetics.

smcgiff

Unforgettable _ Fire wrote: »

No. We share a common ancestor hundreds of millions of years ago. People really need to understand evolution better. If you have any questions, post them and I'll do my best to answer them.

I think people are picking up the OP incorrectly. Nothing of what he has said contradicts evolution.

His hypothesis is correct. Except, I think it unlikely it could happen in 4 million years more like 200 million years. Also, humans would most likely have to have become extinct as it's not likely that another species could evolve with humanity ruling the roost.

Think humanity evolving from a rodent like animal 65 million years ago.

MrStuffins

Kettleson wrote: »

You have a point, however my relatives, the Dover Soles, we're not blessed with high levels of intelligence. You cant escape genetics.

I think I saw them open for The Temptations.

PhlegmyMoses

Doc Ruby wrote: »

There's always one. As much as I hate defending the church, being against evolution and science in general is not among their many sins, so you are full of shite my friend.

You seem lovely, pleased to meet you.

I'm not necessarily blaming the church here. I'm more saying that, in my day anyway, some teachers struggled to balance religion and evolution, resulting in some weird bastardised version that doesn't really mean anything. Maybe just my experience.

tayto lover

I know a lad called Mickey GILL and a John Finn.

phasers

tayto lover wrote: »

I know a lad called Mickey GILL.

Definitive proof? I think so.


Take that theists!

Doc Ruby

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think you'll find it is, at least at certian levels.

The RCC DO NOT believe that human beings evolved from anything. They believe Human Beings were created. Is this not true?

Even that lunatic Schönborn accepts the science behind evolution. The only ones against evolution are protestant American sects. Look up the details yourself. I was certainly never taught intelligent design in school, many years ago.

Doc Ruby

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Maybe just my experience.

It would appear to be entirely in your own head alright. This whole creationism lark hitting the mainstream is a very post 2000 affair, and mostly confined to the US.

Victor

phasers wrote: »

Definitive proof? I think so.

Better proof.

PhlegmyMoses

Doc Ruby wrote: »

It would appear to be entirely in your own head alright. This whole creationism lark hitting the mainstream is a very post 2000 affair, and mostly confined to the US.

Again, a lovely passive aggressive rebuttal. I'll leave you at it.

Doctor Strange

smcgiff wrote: »

I think people are picking up the OP incorrectly. Nothing of what he has said contradicts evolution.

He's hypothesis is correct. Except, I think it unlikely it could happen in 4 million years more like 200 million years. Also, humans would most likely have to have become extinct as it's not likely that another species could evolve with humanity ruling the roost.

Think humanity evolving from a rodent like animal 65 million years ago.

That's true. I did misread based on other responses. So, to answer the OP correctly;

No, not that short a time :P

Doc Ruby

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Again, a lovely passive aggressive rebuttal. I'll leave you at it.

Yeah that's usually the best move when you get caught out accusing an entire country of being backwards religious primitives.

Mal-Adjusted

fooking prawns.


okay, if anything's going to do it next, it's the cuttlefish*




*seriously

MrStuffins

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Even that lunatic Schönborn accepts the science behind evolution. The only ones against evolution are protestant American sects. Look up the details yourself. I was certainly never taught intelligent design in school, many years ago.

I notice you never answered the question.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

I thought we came from a Jesus?

Doc Ruby

MrStuffins wrote: »

I notice you never answered the question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#Pope_Benedict_XVI_and_today

A five-day conference, Biological Evolution: Facts and Theories, held in March 2009 by the Pontifical University in Rome, marking the 150th anniversary of the publication of the Origin of Species, generally confirmed the lack of conflict between evolutionary theory and Catholic theology, and the rejection of Intelligent Design by Catholic scholars.[39]

The Church has deferred to scientists on matters such as the age of the earth and the authenticity of the fossil record. Papal pronouncements, along with commentaries by cardinals, have accepted the findings of scientists on the gradual appearance of life. In fact, the International Theological Commission in a July 2004 statement endorsed by Cardinal Ratzinger, then president of the Commission and head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, now Pope Benedict XVI, includes this paragraph:

Don't ask me to look up anything further for you, it leaves a bad enough taste defending these types as it is.

PhlegmyMoses

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Yeah that's usually the best move when you get caught out accusing an entire country of being backwards religious primitives.

Okay, I'll bite. Firstly, I didn't accuse an entire country of anything. I said "a decent number of Irish people." It's hard to engage with somebody who is hard of reading and likes strawmen.

Secondly, if you are saying that you went to a Catholic school and didn't get the whole "God has a hand in everything, he helps to shape nature" thing, then fair enough, but I certainly did. It's not quite along the same lines as intelligent design or even there to have the same effect.

It was mostly an innocent thing from teachers I had trying to balance two fairly complex and, to them, conflicting ideas. One teacher I had was pretty excellent, as I said, but I'd be surprised if more people didn't have a similar experience. If people didn't, that's cool, no need to get your knickers in a twist.

Doc Ruby

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Okay, I'll bite. Firstly, I didn't accuse an entire country of anything. I said "a decent number of Irish people."

Do you have any evidence for this assertion, or does it reside amongst the lordly leavings in the London Natural History Museum. I mean anything, really.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Secondly, if you are saying that you went to a Catholic school and didn't get the whole "God has a hand in everything, he helps to shape nature" thing, then fair enough, but I certainly did. It's not quite along the same lines as intelligent design or even there to have the same effect.

Religious classes were strictly seperated from the rest of the curriculum, I'd imagine they are more so now. No teacher ever once mentioned god or religion outside of those classes.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If people didn't, that's cool, no need to get your knickers in a twist.

It's a pity more people don't get their knickers in a twist whenever someone tries to characterise the Irish as bumpkins/drunks/violent/backwards/whatever. The world would be a better place for it.

MrStuffins

Doc Ruby wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution#Pope_Benedict_XVI_and_today



Don't ask me to look up anything further for you, it leaves a bad enough taste defending these types as it is.

So, what you're saying is, certain Catholic scholars reject Intelligent Design right?

Didn't the Pope himself say:

"If man were merely a random product of evolution in some place on the margins of the universe, then his life would make no sense or might even be a chance of nature," the pontiff said. "But no, Reason is there at the beginning: creative, divine Reason."

As I said, being against Evolution is still alive and well on certain levels.

For every Bishop you will find who accepts Intelligent Design in rubbish, you will find another who believes we were created by God.

Also, I don't know where you went to school but you were one of the lucky ones. I was taught Intelligent Design in school.

MrStuffins

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Do you have any evidence for this assertion, or does it reside amongst the lordly leavings in the London Natural History Museum. I mean anything, really.

You're not living in the real world if you don't acknowledge that there are a lot of people in Ireland who don't know the first thing about Evolution.

The amount of times i've heard the question "If we evolved from Apes, then why aren't the apes in the zoo changing into humans now?" is mind-boggling!

Religious classes were strictly seperated from the rest of the curriculum, I'd imagine they are more so now. No teacher ever once mentioned god or religion outside of those classes.

Again, you were the lucky one. I once got kicked out of an Irish class for writing Xmas and "taking the Christ out of Christmas"

It's not as if I went to school in the 50s either, i'm in my 20s.

Doc Ruby

MrStuffins wrote: »

So, what you're saying is, certain Catholic scholars reject Intelligent Design right?

Didn't the Pope himself say:



As I said, being against Evolution is still alive and well on certain levels.

For every Bishop you will find who accepts Intelligent Design in rubbish, you will find another who believes we were created by God.

Also, I don't know where you went to school but you were one of the lucky ones. I was taught Intelligent Design in school.

MrStuffins wrote: »

You're not living in the real world if you don't acknowledge that there are a lot of people in Ireland who don't know the first thing about Evolution.

The amount of times i've heard the question "If we evolved from Apes, then why aren't the apes in the zoo changing into humans now?" is mind-boggling!




Again, you were the lucky one. I once got kicked out of an Irish class for writing Xmas and "taking the Christ out of Christmas"

It's not as if I went to school in the 50s either, i'm in my 20s.

Evidence appears to be in short supply around here, except from me. The official position of the church is very much pro science and evolution, I don't care if you like it. They even have an observatory and a science department.

Unless you have some, toddle on.

scudzilla

If my ex is anythin to go by then yes, she smelt really fishy

PhlegmyMoses

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Do you have any evidence for this assertion, or does it reside amongst the lordly leavings in the London Natural History Museum. I mean anything, really.

Nope. Nothing at all. It was a fairly throwaway comment based on anecdotal evidence.

Religious classes were strictly seperated from the rest of the curriculum, I'd imagine they are more so now. No teacher ever once mentioned god or religion outside of those classes.

Not in primary school. After that, you'd have to do biology classes to really get a good idea of evolution and how it works. I didn't do biology but did general science until 3rd year before it splinters off and we didn't do a whole heap of work on evolution. Also, to get two conflicting messages in separate classes is going to confuse some people. Again, I'm not saying we were taught intelligent design, but it was some bastardised version trying to incorporate something that negates a lot of what they are saying. It was a fairly cack-handed approach.

It's a pity more people don't get their knickers in a twist whenever someone tries to characterise the Irish as bumpkins/drunks/violent/backwards/whatever. The world would be a better place for it.

And now I see why you are so pissed off. That wasn't my intention at all, just an observation. I'm also glad that people don't have a level 5 knicker twist whenever they misinterpret somebody or try to find meaning where it isn't there. That'd be a ****ing horrible existence.

Extinction

Did humans really evolve from fish?

Yes and the female of our species have retained that distinctive aroma. That's proof enough proof for me.

The King of Moo

There are plenty of legitimate sticks to beat the Catholic Church with, but evolution isn't one of them.
As already stated, intelligent design's more of an evangelical Protestant thing. I went to regular Irish Catholic primary and secondary schools, and the theory of evolution was accepted as fact.

It's probably best to keep religion out of the thread; it's not really relevant.
I'm much more interested in prawns making iPods anyway.

Doc Ruby

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Again, I'm not saying we were taught intelligent design, but it was some bastardised version trying to incorporate something that negates a lot of what they are saying. It was a fairly cack-handed approach.

Honestly from your comment I'd have doubts you went to school in this country at all. The place is according to the census mostly catholic, more's the pity, and the catholic church robustly rejects intelligent design. Does that not seem at odds to you.

I call bullshit and collect my fifty euros.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

And now I see why you are so pissed off. That wasn't my intention at all, just an observation. I'm also glad that people don't have a level 5 knicker twist whenever they misinterpret somebody or try to find meaning where it isn't there. That'd be a ****ing horrible existence.

It's pretty hard to misinterpret this:

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

One thing I have noticed recently is the fairly limited knowledge a decent number of Irish people have about evolution and how it works. It has to be because we mostly went to church affiliated schools.

Complete nonsense on both fronts.

MrStuffins

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Evidence appears to be in short supply around here, except from me. The official position of the church is very much pro science and evolution, I don't care if you like it. They even have an observatory and a science department.

Unless you have some, toddle on.

What kind of evidence are you looking for? Links to Wikipedia like you provided for me? You're aware of Bishop Donal Wuerl right?

Here's a Wiki link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Wuerl

With regard to school, what kind of proof would you like me to give you with regard to learning about Intelligent Design?

Kettleson

Extinction wrote: »

Did humans really evolve from fish?

Yes and the female of our species have retained that distinctive aroma. That's proof enough proof for me.

Even In my wildest state of madness will I ever understand why "people" think this in any way humorous. It's moronic and sickening.

MrStuffins

The King of Moo wrote: »

I went to regular Irish Catholic primary and secondary schools, and the theory of evolution was accepted as fact.

This too.

When I went to school, the theory of evolution was accepted as fact.

When Religion came around, creationism was accepted as fact.

The answers you got to the follow up questions you asked about such contradictions depended on who you asked.

Doc Ruby

MrStuffins wrote: »

What kind of evidence are you looking for? Links to Wikipedia like you provided for me? You're aware of Bishop Donal Wuerl right?

Here's a Wiki link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Wuerl

wtf is that, a bishop strangely in favour of publicly prosecuting child molesters and not a word about evolution? Are you recruiting for the church or something?

MrStuffins wrote: »

With regard to school, what kind of proof would you like me to give you with regard to learning about Intelligent Design?

Give it up.

Extinction

Kettleson wrote: »

Even In my wildest state of madness will I ever understand why "people" think this in any way humorous. It's moronic and sickening.

Start a thread on it in after hours and find out.

PhlegmyMoses

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Honestly from your comment I'd have doubts you went to school in this country at all. The place is according to the census mostly catholic, more's the pity, and the catholic church robustly rejects intelligent design. Does that not seem at odds to you.

I call bullshit and collect my fifty euros.


It's pretty hard to misinterpret this:

Complete nonsense on both fronts.

Okay, why would I be lying about this, Sherlock? You do realise that not everybody had the same experiences as you, right? And again, for the hard of reading, I am not saying that I was taught intelligent design in school. I am saying that certain teachers, in primary school, had a fairly cack-handed approach to evolution, due in part to how it conflicted with what they were teaching us in religion.

I do know that I have met a decent number of people who fundamentally misunderstand evolution and really aren't sure of how it works in the slightest. And I'm not talking about anything in depth, just the basics.

Again, it wasn't an entirely well thought-out or serious post, I'm mostly just replying because your posting style is atrocious and ur mad bro.

MrStuffins

Doc Ruby wrote: »

wtf is that, a bishop strangely in favour of publicly prosecuting child molesters and not a word about evolution? Are you recruiting for the church or something?

Well I provided a wiki link, that's what you wanted right?

Are you not aware of his stances on intelligent design?

Here, have a look.

Give it up.

Wait, you've given out about the lack of evidence. I've asked you what kind of proof would satisfy you. What's wrong with that? You either want evidence or you don't.

Doc Ruby

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Okay, why would I be lying about this, Sherlock?

Internet sarcasm, well that's my week wrecked.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I am saying

This is what you're saying

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

One thing I have noticed recently is the fairly limited knowledge a decent number of Irish people have about evolution and how it works. It has to be because we mostly went to church affiliated schools.

What I'm saying is you'd have to be off your head to imagine this resembles reality in any way, shape or form. I'm also saying that you've never actually been to an Irish school. By the way I'm the queen of england, I just troll these forums to get a rise out of people, it lights my eighty six year old fires. Amazing what you can claim with anecdotal nonsense in semi anonymous discussions.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Again, it wasn't an entirely well thought-out or serious post, I'm mostly just replying because your posting style is atrocious and ur mad bro.

The backpedalling certainly is entertaining.