Property with No Owner

hotrodder

My father was renting a small plot of land in Kerry next to his farm from a lady in the UK. She inherited the land from her brother. This lady is now dead for 20 years and my farther kept using the land. He was not paying rent as there was no one to pay rent to. Now my father has passed away and a neighbour has started to use this plot of land. The land is next to our land and his animals keep breaking into our land. He wont repair fences and when we repair the fences he breaks them down. We dont want to end up having a big row, so I was thinking of buying this land, but who do I buy it from. There may be a distance relative of the owner in the UK but she has never been near the property and I cant make contact with her. The NRA previously took land for a road and said that they could not contact the rightful owner.

My question is where do I go from here. Would we have squatters rights because my father was not paying rent for over 12 years. He is dead for 4 years and the other is grazing the land since then. Either way I would like to buy the property and pay some one for it (EVEN IF ITS THE STATE)

Where and how do I proceed.

Pat Mustard

hotrodder wrote: »

Where and how do I proceed.

Go to your solicitor, have the title to the property checked, and ask about a s.49 application in the land registry.

I would suggest that you get advice sooner rather than later because there is a problem if your neighbour is now in possession of the property.

Have you spoken to your neighbour about breaking the fences? Have you asked him to reimburse you for the cost of repairs? Have you told him to keep off the land? How long has your neighbour been coming into the field - four years?

hotrodder

I previously got a Solicitor to check the title and they found that the property is still registered to the previous owner who is now dead. She also told me that they could not make contact with any relatives (if they exist).

I did not ask neighbour to vacate the land as he will tell me that its not mine. I sent him a letter about animals trespassing on my land. I know that he wont repair any damaged fences so I didnt ask him. I would prefer not to have an arguement, if I can sort it out some other way.

He has been on this property for 4 years now.

What is a S.49 in Land Registry

ThreeLineWhip

A S49 is a claim for adverse possession. Basically an application to put the land into your name.

nuac

this could be a complex legal matter. AP has many twists and turns. Your solicitor is the (wo)man to talk to rather than using the internet

hotrodder

I prosume that I do go down the legal route and look for AP the person who is now on the land can object, or will he be notified by Land Registry.

I was hoping that the property would automatically go to the State if there was no benefishers to it, and I could buy it directly from the state. ??

Pat Mustard

hotrodder wrote: »

What is a S.49 in Land Registry

In relation to land which is registered in the Land Registry, it is an application to have the land registered in the name of the person who has squatter's rights to the property. See here.

hotrodder wrote: »

I did not ask neighbour to vacate the land as he will tell me that its not mine. I sent him a letter about animals trespassing on my land. I know that he wont repair any damaged fences so I didnt ask him. I would prefer not to have an arguement, if I can sort it out some other way.

On a practical note, if you confront your neighbour and ask him to vacate the land, he may refuse. However, if he does, you may have saved yourself the expense of having him ejected.

You are avoiding an obvious dispute and the result is that your neighbour is on the land, treating it as his own and breaking the fences.

I would suggest that you should see a solicitor.

hotrodder wrote: »

He has been on this property for 4 years now.

That's a long time to take no action. I think that you should take advice as soon as possible.

blops2013

IMO, your neighbour has more rights to you on this land than you do now that hes been farming it for 4 years. Your neighbour wont be stupid and will know this and he will have one eye already on claiming this land when the time comes. Your father should have done this when he was alive and then it would have ended up in your hands but now your fathers dead you dont have any claim to it. I remember a case like this where i live and it went to the guy who was farming the land

Pat Mustard

blops2013 wrote: »

IMO, your neighbour has more rights to you on this land than you do now that hes been farming it for 4 years. Your neighbour wont be stupid and will know this and he will have one eye already on claiming this land when the time comes. Your father should have done this when he was alive and then it would have ended up in your hands but now your fathers dead you dont have any claim to it. I remember a case like this where i live and it went to the guy who was farming the land

Rubbish.

The OP has said that his father (and predecessor in title) occupied the property for the bones of 20 years, yet you come along and say that the neighbour has more rights after a mere 4 years in occupation.

You don't know what you are talking about.

blops2013

The Mustard wrote: »

Rubbish.

The OP has said that his father (and predecessor in title) occupied the property for the bones of 20 years, yet you come along and say that the neighbour has more rights after a mere 4 years in occupation.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Yes but his father isnt here as he'd be the one needed to claim the land, not the OP.

Pat Mustard

blops2013 wrote: »

Yes but his father isnt here as he'd be the one needed to claim the land, not the OP.

Asher v Whitlock confirms that he may inherit his father's rights in adverse possession.

A person in possession of land without other title has a devisable interest; and the heir of his devisee can maintain ejectment against a person who has entered upon the land, and cannot shew title or possession in any one prior to the testator.

What you said is completely wrong and you are still trying to defend it.

miller50841

1st thing I would do OP is re take the land as your dad was the one paying the rent and the other now user should not have moved into it. If you can fence it and take it back he has no right to use it where you would be more liable to be a user as it was been used by YOU and YOUR DAD.

Don't let the other guy screw you over.

Does he know the owner is dead ?

And sorry for your loss.

blops2013

Keep us posted anyhow OP because id be interested to know the outcome of it for future reference

hotrodder

I spoke to a solicitor on this and he advised me that neither me nor my neighbour can get rights over this land as we are only grazing on it. He said that that is not sufficient, and the courts will not accept it in terms of adverse possession. ????? He advised me to get a geneologist to try and track down possible living relatives of the previous owner.

I will keep ye posted. Thanks for all replies

The Reamer

You may be able to lay claim to this land under squatters rights.

A word of warning: DO NOT, under any circumstance, ask any other person if you can buy the land. You need to act as if you already own it. ASking someone if you can buy is effectively admitting that you don't own it and your case is gone.
Get onto the land and maybe put a few sheet or whatever into it. It doesn't matter. Whatever you do just maintain a presence on the land. Put up a few fences. IF the other guy breaks them, threaten him that you will do him for criminal damage.

<this is not legal advice>;)

Noel Kinsella

I can see a shoot out over the land, people will kill for a field in this country it gets very personal. Be careful.

Gosub

The Mustard wrote: »

In relation to land which is registered in the Land Registry, it is an application to have the land registered in the name of the person who has squatter's rights to the property. See here.


On a practical note, if you confront your neighbour and ask him to vacate the land, he may refuse. However, if he does, you may have saved yourself the expense of having him ejected.

You are avoiding an obvious dispute and the result is that your neighbour is on the land, treating it as his own and breaking the fences.

I would suggest that you should see a solicitor.


That's a long time to take no action. I think that you should take advice as soon as possible.

Sorry to drag this off a bit, but it might be useful to the OP.

Is there a place online where a person can find a list of lands subject to a claim of squatters rights?

Maybe the land in question already has a claim placed on it.

Pat Mustard

Gosub wrote: »

Sorry to drag this off a bit, but it might be useful to the OP.

Is there a place online where a person can find a list of lands subject to a claim of squatters rights?

Maybe the land in question already has a claim placed on it.

If it's land registry property, as most rural and agricultural land is, an application which has been entered in the land registry will show up on a land registry search. If a s.49 application has been made in respect of the property, it will show up on a search.

If no application has been made, a land registry search will not show the potential rights of squatters.

In short, there is no easy way to get a list of lands with a claim of squatters' rights, as such.

mitzicat

If your neighbour is so rude as to break down your fences and let his beasts wreck your property, what do you care about starting a fight?