Doping in football

Rayne Wooney

CSF wrote: »

It sets a precedent. Any time anything comes about afterwards people will be wondering why they haven't made another statement.

Why would anything come about afterwards if the people making the allegations know organisations will release evidence showing them up as liars

CSF

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Why would anything come about afterwards if the people making the allegations know organisations will release evidence showing them up as liars

What evidence could the Premier League release to dispel an allegation?

hefferboi

I'm not saying it's happening, but this has been the weirdest season in the PL I've seen so far since watching football. The Champions Chelsea just turned into muck seemingly overnight. Relegation candidates Leicester appear to have the league won. It's well documented Leicester's players credentials the last few years before this season, Mahrez playing Ligue 2, Kante playing lower, Vardy playing for Fleetwood. There was talks of it a few months ago and to be fair you have to question it. A lot of teams go through an injury crisis or 2 in the season but Leicester have basically had the same 11 all season.

Its just really odd and would be the biggest achievement I think sport has ever seen. I hope there's nothing illegal involved.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If the Times are running with it as a front page story you would have to think there is some truth to it (as the were involved in exposing some of FIFA's corruption and are hardly going to risk their reputation in sports journalism by making up a cock and bull story) regardless of whether the doctor is dodgy or not .I'd hardly expect a doctor with a high degree of morality to be involved in helping sportsmen cheat.

Plus apparently the journalist working on the story is the same man who exposed the widespread doping in Russian athletics, which probably sounded completely far fetched at the outset too, so that adds a bit of weight to the whole thing.

Mushy

CSF wrote: »

No evidence by all accounts, just allegations by a corrupt doctor.

One who looks like Alan Partridge too!

peteeeed

Irish doctor dr bonar , studied in UCD , just had a quick read of the article , no evidence of any club knowing and they aledge it was treating a few players with injuries , also althetes and British cyclists . Strange that the times would run this when they haven't been able to get any evidence other than his secret interview

Dont be at yourself

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the top teams were doping. The potential rewards are too high and risks too low for at least some players and teams not be tempted.

When you look at the type of high-running football played by Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, Tottenham, Liverpool -- you really have to wonder.

However, while doping can give you a huge advantage in terms of fitness and stamina, it doesn't explain Mahrez's sublime touch, Vardy's finishing, etc.

Hopefully some truth can be exposed.

I'd say it's pretty widespread

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Wouldn't be at all surprised if the top teams were doping. The potential rewards are too high and risks too low for at least some players and teams not be tempted.

When you look at the type of high-running football played by Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, Tottenham, Liverpool -- you really have to wonder.

However, while doping can give you a huge advantage in terms of fitness and stamina, it doesn't explain Mahrez's sublime touch, Vardy's finishing, etc.

It's much more difficult to have great touch,finishing,passing ability if you are bolloxed tired.

A high degree of fitness,endurance and intensity can turn and average player technically into a very good player overall.

hefferboi

Obviously any player playing in the premier league is going to have a world class touch and technique. How can Vardy run around flat out for 90 mins and still have that finishing. Torres when he was world class at Liverpool used to do the very bare minimum work up front and would pop up with a late goal because he was saving himself all game.

Speed of recovery I'd imagine would be a big factor in footballers taking drugs.

Rules Sturridge out anyway on that front

Blowfish

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

However, while doping can give you a huge advantage in terms of fitness and stamina, it doesn't explain Mahrez's sublime touch, Vardy's finishing, etc.

It would mean that you could ramp up the intensity, length and focus of training though. The longer you can spend training technical skills, the more they'll be kept at peak level.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

It's much more difficult to have great touch,finishing,passing ability if you are bolloxed tired.

A high degree of fitness,endurance and intensity can turn and average player technically into a very good player overall.

Yeah, not sure I get the whole "ach it wouldn't do much for a footballer". It's cheating to gain an advantage. It doesn't help the batter read the flight of the baseball any quicker, it doesn't enable the golfer read the putt better, it doesn't enable a tennis player perform wonderful passing shots. It enables them all train harder, recover more quickly, get stronger, gain more muscle memory, in certain sports like golf or darts it might bring a calmness to avoid "yips" and perform better under pressure and so on. If any player is doping with a banned substance, they should be flung out of the game. It cheats opponents, fans, everyone.

SantryRed

Blowfish wrote: »

It would mean that you could ramp up the intensity, length and focus of training though. The longer you can spend training technical skills, the more they'll be kept at peak level.

Reminds me of Pep's Barcelona side. People saying they could run all day because they had the ball for the majority of the game.

I read a lot of books regarding Lance Armstrong and the systematic doping in cycling in the previous decade. There is absolutely no way that football is clean. It just isn't. But it's got to the point where I don't really care any more. FIFA are never ever gonna attack it head on.

niallo27

Arsenal involved as well it seems, same old arsenal it seems.

Hitchens

if Leicester win the title will it be tainted now?

CSF

Hitchens wrote: »

if Leicester win the title will it be tainted now?

Tainted because some random doctor made claims with no names or evidence? Yeah definitely, sure we should probably strip them of the thing.

Hitchens

CSF wrote: »

Tainted because some random doctor made claims with no names or evidence? Yeah definitely, sure we should probably strip them of the thing.

what is a 'random' doctor exactly?

Lovely Bloke

Hitchens wrote: »

if Leicester win the title will it be tainted now?

Unless you are going to call every other title win tainted, because there is little doubt in my mind that doping in football is both systematic and long running.

CSF

Hitchens wrote: »

what is a 'random' doctor exactly?

One with no reputation due to previous malpractice.

Hitchens

CSF wrote: »

One with no reputation due to previous malpractice.

supplying drugs to athletes to enhance performance would be malpractice alright

Giruilla

"Conditioning and Injury Prevention" coach for Chelsea during their most successful period in history, becomes "Consultant" to Barcelona during their most successful period in history.

LOL

Frankie Lee

Players who were at the same club as Brinded at some time. Not saying they are dopers but just links.
Arsenal - Cech, Alexis Sanchez, Bellerin, Jon Toral (on loan at Birmingham)
Chelsea - Terry, Fabregas, Mikel, Pedro
Leicester - Huth

CSF

Hitchens wrote: »

supplying drugs to athletes to enhance performance would be malpractice alright

Ok, care to substantiate your question on whether Leicester's title campaign should be tainted by baseless allegations or are you just here to talk sh*te?

MonkieSocks

I wonder what are the Aston Villa players are on?

They sure looked a load of Doped Up Idiots yeaterday against Chelski

jamesbere

MonkieSocks wrote: »

I wonder what are the Aston Villa players are on?

They sure looked a load of Doped Up Idiots yeaterday against Chekski

Sleeping tablets

monkey9

niallo27 wrote: »

Arsenal involved as well it seems, same old arsenal it seems.

Well if that's the case, they really need to get refunds and change their 'performance enhancing' drug of choice.

Hitchens

CSF wrote: »

Ok, care to substantiate your question on whether Leicester's title campaign should be tainted by baseless allegations or are you just here to talk sh*te?

well done there, Lance

CSF

Hitchens wrote: »

well done there, Lance

Ok I'll bite, how does an unsubstantiated claim taint anybody?

Quite a claim for someone to make. He'd be opening himself up to massive libel action surely?

CSF

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Quite a claim for someone to make. He'd be opening himself up to massive libel action surely?

Not if he doesn't name any names I assume. And it was an undercover bust also so he'd possibly be quite willing to claim/admit he was talking boll*x.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

Not if he doesn't name any names I assume. And it was an undercover bust also so he'd possibly be quite willing to claim/admit he was talking boll*x.

He named clubs though. Can he do that without legal action being sought against him?

vetinari

Bit unfair to be picking on Leicester in terms of doping.
Realistically if there's doping in football, it's probably systemic and widespread across most teams.

CSF

RoboKlopp wrote: »

He named clubs though. Can he do that without legal action being sought against him?

Not sure, it'd be different he had willingly given an interview I guess. A libel case would be difficult given the nature of the article I think.

Ulysses Gaze

If the FA and Premier League follow the same approach as the UK Athletics body (there were newspaper reports that implicated at least seven top British athletes in doping), this will make media headlines for a few weeks and then it will die away.

With no follow up action taken by the relevant governing bodies.

peteeeed

A back track on Chelsea players

https://twitter.com/mattmcgeehan/status/716706651210924033

GavRedKing

Seems like hes back tracking saying he never worked with any premier league footballer.

Giruilla

peteeeed wrote: »

A back track on Chelsea players

https://twitter.com/mattmcgeehan/status/716706651210924033

Rob is the best conditioning guy I have worked with. From working with him, I became the quickest player over 10 metres and had the highest jump height recorded from the German national team. I continue to work with Rob as I know it gives me the advantage over the opposition.

- Robert Huth

LOL

Frankie Lee

The more concerning thing from a Leicester point of view is the links to the Centro Mapei in Italy who would not have a great reputation in cycling.
http://www.calcioefinanza.it/2016/02/25/centro-mapei-leicester-juventus-olgiate/

Knex*

https://twitter.com/KevinDoyle1983/status/716737571078836225

https://twitter.com/KevinDoyle1983/status/716749324839878656

Interesting, if you take it at face value anyway.

Personally, I would be surprised if there wasn't doping. Especially among the elite players and clubs, where the demand is much higher, both in playing time and the level you need to achieve.

Maximus Alexander

Knex. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/KevinDoyle1983/status/716737571078836225

https://twitter.com/KevinDoyle1983/status/716749324839878656

Interesting, if you take it at face value anyway.

Personally, I would be surprised if there wasn't doping. Especially among the elite players and clubs, where the demand is much higher, both in playing time and the level you need to achieve.

It's also quite possible that Kevin Doyle never quite reached the top end of the game where one could imagine doping would be more endemic.

MD1990

I'm sure lots of footballers could be taking PEDs but just don't know they are.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

I'm sure lots of footballers could be taking PEDs but just don't know they are.

More likely in the past than now I'd say. Would've been plenty of "pain-killing" injections, players would be more aware now.

Richard Hillman

Nobody offers somebody PED's. It is the dumbest thing ever to believe that team-mates offer blood transfusions or EPO to each other.

It happens within small cliques of players and I highly doubt there was a doping clique within Reading and Wolves.

~Rebel~

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Nobody offers somebody PED's. It is the dumbest thing ever to believe that team-mates offer blood transfusions or EPO to each other.

It happens within small cliques of players and I highly doubt there was a doping clique within Reading and Wolves.

Yeah, I suspect it wouldn't be a team thing per say, more a player with an injury who knows he'll find it a challenge to get back into the team if he's out for long. Maybe the end of a contract is looming, desperation sets in, and he goes for it.

Frankie Lee

The great Parma team of the late 90's

Donati cites the recent startling revelations at Parma as a prime example. A leaked police report showed that 21 of 25 Parma players had an unusually high red blood cell count in tests carried out during pre- season training. Such high levels cansometimes be the result of usingEPO, a red blood cell booster that increases oxygen in the bloodstream and is associated with endurance sports, particularly cycling. Use of EPO, which thickens the blood and can cause heart attacks, was responsible for a spate of suspensions at this summer's Tour de France.

Parma were furious about the leaks but their efforts at damage limitation did not stop one of their former players, Daniel Bravo, from speaking out. Now at Marseilles, Bravo was a Parma player for 18 months and said he would sue the club if he found he was given EPO.

"We were systematically given vitamin injections before games," Bravo said. "I didn't approve but if you protested, you went against club rules. The problem with injections is that the doctor involved can put whatever he likes into them."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-drugs-in-serie-a-italy-sinking-deeper-into-scandal-1178042.html

SantryRed

Is there any rules in football, like cycling, to prohibit the use of EPO? In cycling, your red blood cell count had to be below 50%, but I don't think there's such a rule in football?

Frankie Lee

SantryRed wrote: »

Is there any rules in football, like cycling, to prohibit the use of EPO? In cycling, your red blood cell count had to be below 50%, but I don't think there's such a rule in football?

According to WADA EPO was banned in the early 90's but was testing only started in 2000.
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/questions-answers/epo-detection

I'm not sure how much FIFA adhered to WADA regulations before signing up to them fully in 2006.

Giruilla

How come no papers are questioning why Rob Brinded has removed testimonials from Robert Huth, Peter Cech and Joe Cole from his website in the past week?

McDave

I think the Panama leaks shows there's a lot of loose money out there looking for things to do. I find it hard to believe all that tax dodging isn't being used in football for competitive advantages and laundering. I've never been able to get my head around superagents being allowed to own players. It always sounded iffy to me, shifting players around for masses of money, and behaving almost like little corporations of their own.

The mention of Messi in relation to Panama really gets me thinking about just how dodgy football could be. This stuff about legitimate use of HGH. I don't really buy it.

Not to mention the FIFA scandals. And the horror of the abuses surrounding the Qatar WC, which I probably won't watch, if I haven't given up on soccer as a sport by then like I've given up on athletics and cycling.