Doping in football

CSF

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't think the press even want to discuss the issue any more.

I'm not having a go at Liverpool tonight, have absolutely nothing against them, but how can't one even slightly question that performance, especially one week after a player of theirs has been suspended due to being caught with 'fat burners' in his system.

I've no doubt that many teams are at it (and I'm not even accusing Liverpool), but the fact that there is no questioning about it at all in the main stream press shows that the media doesn't really have that much of a care in uncovering the truth.

Why tonight in particular? The pressing?

SantryRed

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't think the press even want to discuss the issue any more.

I'm not having a go at Liverpool tonight, have absolutely nothing against them, but how can't one even slightly question that performance, especially one week after a player of theirs has been suspended due to being caught with 'fat burners' in his system.

I've no doubt that many teams are at it (and I'm not even accusing Liverpool), but the fact that there is no questioning about it at all in the main stream press shows that the media doesn't really have that much of a care in uncovering the truth.

Love it, makes the win even sweeter

The_Kew_Tour

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Win or lose they should give their medals to Utd. It's morally the right thing to do

? Why you having pop at United? He not even United fan!

JPNelsforearm

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't think the press even want to discuss the issue any more.

I'm not having a go at Liverpool tonight, have absolutely nothing against them, but how can't one even slightly question that performance, especially one week after a player of theirs has been suspended due to being caught with 'fat burners' in his system.

I've no doubt that many teams are at it (and I'm not even accusing Liverpool), but the fact that there is no questioning about it at all in the main stream press shows that the media doesn't really have that much of a care in uncovering the truth.

Honestly, why do you care? doping in professional sports is here to stay, accept it. Look at it as a recovery aid, like an oxygen chamber or elite sports science.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

? Why you having pop at United? He not even United fan!

Sakho was caught after the Utd game. So it should be Utd in the final

derm0j073

SantryRed wrote: »

I'm not having a go at Liverpool tonight, have absolutely nothing against them, but how can't one even slightly question that performance, especially one week after a player of theirs has been suspended due to being caught with 'fat burners' in his system.

Strange way of not having a go at Liverpool .

The_Kew_Tour

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Sakho was caught after the Utd game. So it should be Utd in the final

But you're just taking piss rather then being serious in whole thread.

Not sure why because plenty of us including myself ain't saying this is just a 1 club problem. And if I'm honest I highly highly highly doubt Liverpool as a club are involved

Yes we get little kick maybe and joke from Sakho to wind few mates and make excuses but at end of day he ain't alone.

Said already in few posts back that I am suspicious of 2 or 3 United players in past too.

You will always have individuals who look to cheat, any club including Liverpool should not be punished for 1 player stupidity.

Liverpool beat United fair and square because they wanted it more and United were ****.

But you seem be taking it bad, which is weird

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

But you're just taking piss rather then being serious in whole thread.

Not sure why because plenty of us including myself ain't saying this is just a 1 club problem. And if I'm honest I highly highly highly doubt Liverpool as a club are involved

Yes we get little kick maybe and joke from Sakho to wind few mates and make excuses but at end of day he ain't alone.

Said already in few posts back that I am suspicious of 2 or 3 United players in past too.

You will always have individuals who look to cheat, any club including Liverpool should not be punished for 1 player stupidity.

Liverpool beat United fair and square because they wanted it more and United were ****.

But you seem be taking it bad, which is weird

Pretty sure I said plenty of players are at it. It's widespread.

Definitely not taking anything football related bad Kew

SantryRed

****ing hell. No I'm not a United fan.

God forbid starting a genuine debate without the Liverpool/United bollocks. I couldn't give a ****e about either. My whole point was about the lack of coverage from the press with what could be seen a superhuman performance of pressing from Liverpool. Villareal were a mess due to it.

But **** it, swing your Liverpool/United dicks, this forum really is a pile of ****e when United/Liverpool are involved. Genuine debates get sullied in an instant.

SantryRed

SantryRed wrote: »

****ing hell. No I'm not a United fan.

God forbid starting a genuine debate without the Liverpool/United bollocks. I couldn't give a ****e about either. My whole point was about the lack of coverage from the press with what could be seen a superhuman performance of pressing from Liverpool. Villareal were a mess due to it.

But **** it, swing your Liverpool/United dicks, this forum really is a pile of ****e when United/Liverpool are involved. Genuine debates get sullied in an instant.

Lack of coverage after Liverpools performance tonight?

That's some leap you're making there 1+1 = banana. . Genuine debate indeed

citytillidie

SantryRed wrote: »

****ing hell. No I'm not a United fan.

God forbid starting a genuine debate without the Liverpool/United bollocks. I couldn't give a ****e about either. My whole point was about the lack of coverage from the press with what could be seen a superhuman performance of pressing from Liverpool. Villareal were a mess due to it.

But **** it, swing your Liverpool/United dicks, this forum really is a pile of ****e when United/Liverpool are involved. Genuine debates get sullied in an instant.

The thing is Liverpool have put that press in against a few teams this season under Klopp so there is nothing strange about it tonight not matter how much people want to make about it.

They did nothing on Sunday so you can say they had a week off between games

MD1990

Its pretty simple really. All the english media think the english game is too honest to have a drug problem. Its the same in athletics slated Gatlin for years but always forget Linford Christie tested positive for steroids as well.

citytillidie

citytillidie wrote: »

The thing is Liverpool have put that press in against a few teams this season under Klopp so there is nothing strange about it tonight not matter how much people want to make about it.

They did nothing on Sunday so you can say they had a week off between games

Or they missed the prescription.... Oh no he didn't!

monkey9

We'll see who fails their drugs test after tonight's performance. Simples.

NIMAN

Why didn't Liverpool play like that in Spain so?

monkey9

NIMAN wrote: »

Why didn't Liverpool play like that in Spain so?

Is that a serious question?

NIMAN

Not really.

A few people are hinting that pool were great tonight and pressed extra hard, had limitless energy etc and so must be doping.

Was just questioning why they didn't play the same way last week if they are doped up.

monkey9

NIMAN wrote: »

Not really.

A few people are hinting that pool were great tonight and pressed extra hard, had limitless energy etc and so must be doping.

Was just questioning why they didn't play the same way last week if they are doped up.

Oh right, sorry. I misread your post.

Maximus Alexander

NIMAN wrote: »

Not really.

A few people are hinting that pool were great tonight and pressed extra hard, had limitless energy etc and so must be doping.

Was just questioning why they didn't play the same way last week if they are doped up.

The Doper's Code of Ethics states that you can only dope up once every 3 weeks, so you have to choose your matches carefully.

StupidLikeAFox

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The Doper's Code of Ethics states that you can only dope up once every 3 weeks, so you have to choose your matches carefully.

....otherwise it's just cheating really

K-9

SantryRed wrote: »

****ing hell. No I'm not a United fan.

God forbid starting a genuine debate without the Liverpool/United bollocks. I couldn't give a ****e about either. My whole point was about the lack of coverage from the press with what could be seen a superhuman performance of pressing from Liverpool. Villareal were a mess due to it.

But **** it, swing your Liverpool/United dicks, this forum really is a pile of ****e when United/Liverpool are involved. Genuine debates get sullied in an instant.

1 person gets banned, we can all surmise away. but innocent until proven guilty for the club.

2 or more get banned? clubs problem. Wenger made similar points earlier in the season and I agreed, long before the Sakho business.

SantryRed

K-9 wrote: »

1 person gets banned, we can all surmise away. but innocent until proven guilty for the club.

2 or more get banned? clubs problem. Wenger made similar points earlier in the season and I agreed, long before the Sakho business.

Yeah, but my whole point is that the press don't even question it at all. I'm not saying Liverpool are systematically doping their players (well actually, I'd imagine most big clubs are), but the lack of even a slight question from the press when a performance like that occurs shows how it's going down the Tour de France route.

Atletico's performances this season (and even more so two years ago) would be another club that would strongly raise eyebrows, especially with how cynical they are, their win at all costs attitude and the man who is at the helm, but again, barely any questions are really asked in the press.

CSF

SantryRed wrote: »

Yeah, but my whole point is that the press don't even question it at all. I'm not saying Liverpool are systematically doping their players (well actually, I'd imagine most big clubs are), but the lack of even a slight question from the press when a performance like that occurs shows how it's going down the Tour de France route.

Atletico's performances this season (and even more so two years ago) would be another club that would strongly raise eyebrows, especially with how cynical they are, their win at all costs attitude and the man who is at the helm, but again, barely any questions are really asked in the press.

I just don't get how it would work. Are Atletico doping? Are Liverpool doping? Are Leicester doping? Personally, I wouldn't want to be reading these sorts of accusations/implications in the media that don't have anything attached to them. Where the logic behind it is essentially, look how fit these guys are, I don't like it. It's going to lead to a situation where when anything is good through good honest labour rather than technical genius we have to ask these questions.

That's not to say I'm in favour of turning a blind eye either. Investigative journalism has always been a thing. The things that have leaked out. But do I think the media has the responsibility to actually put the groundwork in and start getting some real information on the topic, rather than going ahead with accusations based on who can run the most? Absolutely.

Was Lance Armstrong doping when everyone in the media thought he was? Is doping a very real thing in football, just like it is in sports elsewhere? Almost certainly. But that doesn't mean Atletico are, or Leicester are, or Liverpool (with the exception of Sakho) are. The standard of proof has to become higher before accusations become more than conspiracy theories IMO.

The_Kew_Tour

CSF wrote: »

Was Lance Armstrong doping when everyone in the media thought he was?.

Bar few Americans and odd idiot then Yes

K-9

SantryRed wrote: »

Yeah, but my whole point is that the press don't even question it at all. I'm not saying Liverpool are systematically doping their players (well actually, I'd imagine most big clubs are), but the lack of even a slight question from the press when a performance like that occurs shows how it's going down the Tour de France route.

Atletico's performances this season (and even more so two years ago) would be another club that would strongly raise eyebrows, especially with how cynical they are, their win at all costs attitude and the man who is at the helm, but again, barely any questions are really asked in the press.

Well Spain doesn't seem bothered, remember the blood samples court case?

I suppose the other side of it is, what do we do as supporters to make it a big issue? Took Supporter groups to this year to win a concession on ticket prices.

dfx-

Did the cycling journalists who questioned Armstrong and were bullied by him have actual evidence at the time?

JPNelsforearm

dfx- wrote: »

Did the cycling journalists who questioned Armstrong and were bullied by him have actual evidence at the time?

No, aside from obvious suspicions due to times/performace, which applies to every single sport.
Eg

The_Kew_Tour

Of the Top 10 fastest 100m sprinters only Bolt has ever been clean

Andre 3000

It's even funnier when you look at Bolt's start and overall technique and how sh*t it is. If he has the technique of someone like Blake or Gay he could completely shatter everyone else, not that he isn't already.

Bolt's story is hilarious though. The man went from a 200m specialist with an average 100m (his PB wasn't sub 10 seconds) to smashing the world record in a year. Obviously you need hard work and talent but it's just taking the piss looking at the stone cold statistics.

There's significant proof that Maurice Greene was at it too.

K-9

dfx- wrote: »

Did the cycling journalists who questioned Armstrong and were bullied by him have actual evidence at the time?

There's more information available these days, sports science stuff and all that. I suppose loads of people just wanted to believe the Lance story, then you'd the charity angle which was cleverly used by Armstrong.

Andre 3000

You have to remember that Armstrong had the UCI in his back pocket too. He was bringing so much money and media presence to the sport that they almost felt obliged to keep him at the top. The saddle sore cream story to cover up the positive test is absolutely hilarious and shows how corrupt Verbruggen et al. were.

SantryRed

SantryRed wrote: »

Yeah, but my whole point is that the press don't even question it at all. I'm not saying Liverpool are systematically doping their players (well actually, I'd imagine most big clubs are), but the lack of even a slight question from the press when a performance like that occurs shows how it's going down the Tour de France route.

Atletico's performances this season (and even more so two years ago) would be another club that would strongly raise eyebrows, especially with how cynical they are, their win at all costs attitude and the man who is at the helm, but again, barely any questions are really asked in the press.

Surely an accusation in the press that a team may be systematically doping would be serious libel or is that stating the obvious?

Too Tough To Die

Andre 3000 wrote: »

It's even funnier when you look at Bolt's start and overall technique and how sh*t it is. If he has the technique of someone like Blake or Gay he could completely shatter everyone else, not that he isn't already.

Bolt's story is hilarious though. The man went from a 200m specialist with an average 100m (his PB wasn't sub 10 seconds) to smashing the world record in a year. Obviously you need hard work and talent but it's just taking the piss looking at the stone cold statistics.

There's significant proof that Maurice Greene was at it too.

No talent involved, any eejit can run.

Andre 3000

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

No talent involved, any eejit can run.

Not sure if being sarcastic or not...my post clearly states that you still need obscene hard work and talent...but as legendary PED supplier Memo Heredia said, drugs are the difference between a 9.70 and a 10.00.

CSF

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Surely an accusation in the press that a team may be systematically doping would be serious libel or is that stating the obvious?

It'd just make for terrible journalism. What a performance today from the lads, absolutely ran their hearts out.......must be doping.

I'm all for the outing of doping and punishing those involved vigorously. But the onus is on those tasked with proving it. Football would become boring for me very quickly if I can't see a team with high fitness levels without having to question whether they're doping.

MD1990

Andre 3000 wrote: »

It's even funnier when you look at Bolt's start and overall technique and how sh*t it is. If he has the technique of someone like Blake or Gay he could completely shatter everyone else, not that he isn't already.

Bolt's story is hilarious though. The man went from a 200m specialist with an average 100m (his PB wasn't sub 10 seconds) to smashing the world record in a year. Obviously you need hard work and talent but it's just taking the piss looking at the stone cold statistics.

There's significant proof that Maurice Greene was at it too.

Bolt was performing amazing 200m times as a 15 year old. That would always require a very good 100m. Not saying he is clean as its very unlikely. But his 100m was kind of hidden because its very rare for someone 6"5 to be a 100m runner.

NIMAN

Anyone who believes that Bolt is clean is living in cloud cuckoo land.

PhlegmyMoses

CSF wrote: »

It'd just make for terrible journalism. What a performance today from the lads, absolutely ran their hearts out.......must be doping.

I'm all for the outing of doping and punishing those involved vigorously. But the onus is on those tasked with proving it. Football would become boring for me very quickly if I can't see a team with high fitness levels without having to question whether they're doping.

Your last point hits the nail on the head. None of us want to have to view football through a prism of cynicism, where romance is dead and unlikely events are met with extreme scepticism and knowing winks.

I know that doping definitely happens in football on some level, but I'll stick to enjoying the sport until some form of proof emerges that it is an endemic problem.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Your last point hits the nail on the head. None of us want to have to view football through a prism of cynicism, where romance is dead and unlikely events are met with extreme scepticism and knowing winks.

I know that doping definitely happens in football on some level, but I'll stick to enjoying the sport until some form of proof emerges that it is an endemic problem.

Another maybe more cynical way of looking at it, if they're all doping, they're operating off a level playing field and it comes back to being about the football once more.

eagle eye

Andre 3000 wrote: »

It's even funnier when you look at Bolt's start and overall technique and how sh*t it is. If he has the technique of someone like Blake or Gay he could completely shatter everyone else, not that he isn't already.

Bolt's story is hilarious though. The man went from a 200m specialist with an average 100m (his PB wasn't sub 10 seconds) to smashing the world record in a year. Obviously you need hard work and talent but it's just taking the piss looking at the stone cold statistics.

There's significant proof that Maurice Greene was at it too.

The other thing about Bolt is how his times have gotten worse over the years. He is still better than the rest but the gap has closed. It's like a normal guy and not like Juston Gatlin who is running better times in his thirties than he was when he was caught 10 years ago.

Kerrigooney

Suck it,haters.

Flint Fredstone

He missed the final. Liverpool lost. It's all good.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

He misses the final. Liverpool lost. It's all good.

Ugh

Great contribution.


It seems he may be innocent according to French newspapers

Flint Fredstone

One would be naive to think that he was taking fat burners for any other reason than to cover up whatever else he was taking.

raze_them_all_

Professional athlete, trains daily at the highest levels of sport dont need fat burners. Anyone who trains professionally at a sport can tell you that

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

One would be naive to think that he was taking fat burners for any other reason than to cover up whatever else he was taking.

One would be naive to jump into accusations when they have little knowledge on the subject also.


I'd imagine it'll be another operation rollback on comments in this thread from some as usual.

Even a few pages back some experts were questioning Liverpools performance against Villereal

Kerrigooney

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

He missed the final. Liverpool lost. It's all good.

You should patent that alarm of yours...it's amazing.

ricero

Delighted for sakho if its true. Seems a good honest pro.

Rumors he will take out a lawsuit against uefa

Flint Fredstone

Kerrigooney wrote: »

You should patent that alarm of yours...it's amazing.

How can I patent it when it's already in use here for everyone and anyone. It's called a notification...

Korat

I wonder if they retest old samples like they do in athletics. The best cheating technology is years ahead of the testers ability to detect it but as you see in athletics eventually the testing catches up. If there's a viable sample still in storage it can be tested and the drugs cheat caught and punished years later.