Doping in football

Giruilla

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A huge amount of Xavi's 'running' will be a little 5 metre dash to get a pass, 2 metres running with the ball, another 3 metre sideways run to make position, pass it, move 2 metres to get in position for another pass, repeated 20 times.

Its hardly that surprising that a midfielder in a 'tica-tica' formation would run more than most other footballers but yet be less tired. Its the 50 metre hoofball sprints which actually tire you out more.

If anything its those 50 metre hoofballs that give players an opportunity for a breather! For an entire team surely nothing could be more tiring that tici tica for a whole game like barca do

Bodhisopha

Giruilla wrote: »

If anything its those 50 metre hoofballs that give players an opportunity for a breather! For an entire team surely nothing could be more tiring that tici tica for a whole game like barca do

Being the team chasing the tiki taka for a whole game is more tiring. Don't you think?

http://www.elitesoccerconditioning.com/Possession/possessionresting.html

Giruilla

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Being the team chasing the tiki taka for a whole game is more tiring. Don't you think?

http://www.elitesoccerconditioning.com/Possession/possessionresting.html

Completely depends if you're chasing a game or not. So many teams set up to play defensive counter attacking football against barca precisely due to this. Its barca's unbelievable stamina and pressing when they do eventually lose the ball thats "impressive".

Brain Stroking

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Yes, i have played football, not at Champions League level though, i must admit.

I have played enough to know that a team with far more skill and ability are likely to have much more of the ball and football is a ****load more tiring when you don't have the ball, both physically and mentally.

As for the margins becoming tighter at professional level, that's not always the case. We've seen Barca obliterate even top teams over the last few years without having to really dig deep in terms of physical exertion. Stamina didn't win those CL finals against United, skill and ability did. Hypothetically, with or without PEDs, United are still walking off that pitch the more tired team.

Yes but the Champions League Final v United involved a long hard season for one club and (allegedly) a long hard season for the other club who were doping ie weren't as tired, less prone to injury, minds werent as sapped, all the advantages that doping affords. If Barca were doping then they absolutely had a huge advantage in showcasing their higher skills against opponents who were much more tired than them. Hence the obliteration.

The most striking thing is that Barca are still obliterating teams. With a squad that plays major tournaments (and continues obliterating teams at national level) 3 summers out of 4. I have travelled to watch them numerous times and pray that their success has been fairly gained. The past few weeks and yesterday's revelations about the Australian sporting culture have made me worried.

If they have been cheating, i want them all stricken from the history books and given lifetime bans. At the risk of sounding Dunphy-esque, they would be a stain/cancer on our game. If true of course

Edit: ps you are also using an example that is not suited to the question. You say PEDs are not as much of a help in football and then use one of the best teams of all time to support your argument. It is too extreme an example. QPR v Reading. One team on PEDs. Still no advantage?

Chucky the tree

Playing without the ball and even parking the bus to defend is mentral very tough and really tires you out. I'd much rather have to sprint short distances to pick a pass than sit in the middle of the defense and than try and maintain 100% concentration for 90 minutes.

Brain Stroking

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Playing without the ball and even parking the bus to defend is mentral very tough and really tires you out. I'd much rather have to sprint short distances to pick a pass than sit in the middle of the defense and than try and maintain 100% concentration for 90 minutes.

The question seems to have mutated from "Does doping help professional footballers?" to "Does doping give Barcelona/Spain an unfair advantage due to the fact that they are so good anyway?"

Starting to lose our way here. The first question is the relevant one and is an absolute yes in my eyes. The second question is what you can ask your mates for a laugh while Xavi, Iniesta et al are serving lifetime bans.

Bodhisopha

Giruilla wrote: »

Completely depends if you're chasing a game or not. So many teams set up to play defensive counter attacking football against barca precisely due to this. Its barca's unbelievable stamina and pressing when they do eventually lose the ball thats "impressive".

No it doesn't completely depend. You can be sure a team like Celtic - to take a recent example - are putting in more physical effort trying to hold onto what they have than Barca are 'chasing' it. I put in the quotation marks because Barca rarely ever chase, it's their philosophy to keep playing their way when behind as it is precisely this way that knackers opposition defences and more often than not leads to a lapse in concentration for them to exploit.

Brain Stroking

Bodhisopha wrote: »

No it doesn't completely depend. You can be sure a team like Celtic - to take a recent example - are putting in more physical effort trying to hold onto what they have than Barca are 'chasing' it. I put in the quotation marks because Barca rarely ever chase, it's their philosophy to keep playing their way when behind as it is precisely this way that knackers opposition defences and more often than not leads to a lapse in concentration for them to exploit.

You're missing the point. Just because one team is less tired than the other at the end of a game does not mean that the PEDs the better team were on are irrelevant. In fact the Barca's PEDs in their system contribute to Celtic's tiredness (in your example) as Barca wont have missed a pass in 90 minutes. Due to higher concentration levels. Caused by a lack of tiredness. Caused by doping. Increased stamina and fitness means a sharper mind that makes fewer mistakes. And means a lot more running for Celtic with less opportunities to win the ball back

Bodhisopha

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Yes but the Champions League Final v United involved a long hard season for one club and (allegedly) a long hard season for the other club who were doping ie weren't as tired, less prone to injury, minds werent as sapped, all the advantages that doping affords. If Barca were doping then they absolutely had a huge advantage in showcasing their higher skills against opponents who were much more tired than them. Hence the obliteration.

The most striking thing is that Barca are still obliterating teams. With a squad that plays major tournaments (and continues obliterating teams at national level) 3 summers out of 4. I have travelled to watch them numerous times and pray that their success has been fairly gained. The past few weeks and yesterday's revelations about the Australian sporting culture have made me worried.

If they have been cheating, i want them all stricken from the history books and given lifetime bans. At the risk of sounding Dunphy-esque, they would be a stain/cancer on our game. If true of course

Edit: ps you are also using an example that is not suited to the question. You say PEDs are not as much of a help in football and then use one of the best teams of all time to support your argument. It is too extreme an example. QPR v Reading. One team on PEDs. Still no advantage?

Wait a minute. Who is alleging Barca were doping that season? As for injuries, Barca had a patchwork defence for much of that season and for the final they had Abidal who was just back from serious illness starting for them. You're being ridiculous.

Like i said, with or without, that Barca team destroys that Man U team.

You seem to be suggesting that everyone bar english teams might be doping. The same English teams famed for their physicality and intensity, no less.

As for your PS, go back and read my posts more carefully to see what i'm saying. Of course i'm not saying PEDs don't provide an advantage. Jesus man.

Bodhisopha

Brain Stroking wrote: »

You're missing the point. Just because one team is less tired than the other at the end of a game does not mean that the PEDs the better team were on are irrelevant. In fact the Barca's PEDs in their system contribute to Celtic's tiredness (in your example) as Barca wont have missed a pass in 90 minutes. Due to higher concentration levels. Caused by a lack of tiredness. Caused by doping. Increased stamina and fitness means a sharper mind that makes fewer mistakes. And means a lot more running for Celtic with less opportunities to win the ball back

It's you who is missing the point, badly at that. Where have i said PEDs are irrelevant. Go back to my post with the italics and work forward from there without putting words in my cyber mouth.

mitosis

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Yes but the Champions League Final v United involved a long hard season for one club and (allegedly) a long hard season for the other club who were doping ie weren't as tired, less prone to injury, minds werent as sapped, all the advantages that doping affords. If Barca were doping then they absolutely had a huge advantage in showcasing their higher skills against opponents who were much more tired than them. Hence the obliteration.

The most striking thing is that Barca are still obliterating teams. With a squad that plays major tournaments (and continues obliterating teams at national level) 3 summers out of 4. I have travelled to watch them numerous times and pray that their success has been fairly gained. The past few weeks and yesterday's revelations about the Australian sporting culture have made me worried.

If they have been cheating, i want them all stricken from the history books and given lifetime bans. At the risk of sounding Dunphy-esque, they would be a stain/cancer on our game. If true of course

Edit: ps you are also using an example that is not suited to the question. You say PEDs are not as much of a help in football and then use one of the best teams of all time to support your argument. It is too extreme an example. QPR v Reading. One team on PEDs. Still no advantage?

I'm sorry, but are you allowed to state Barcelona were doped in the CL final? Without any supporting evidence? Is this, and a lot of what has gone on in this thread, not defamation? To contrast, even when everyone and his dog knew it, in the cycling forum it was forbidden to say Lance was a doper.

Brain Stroking

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Wait a minute. Who is alleging Barca were doping that season? As for injuries, Barca had a patchwork defence for much of that season and for the final they had Abidal who was just back from serious illness starting for them. You're being ridiculous.

Like i said, with or without, that Barca team destroys that Man U team.

You seem to be suggesting that everyone bar english teams might be doping. The same English teams famed for their physicality and intensity, no less.

As for your PS, go back and read my posts more carefully to see what i'm saying. Of course i'm not saying PEDs don't provide an advantage. Jesus man.

What are you talking about? I am using Barcelona as an example because they have been mentioned this week in light of the doctor on trial in Madrid. Other posters have spoken about Xavi's progression from an injury prone player to a machine that runs a km more than any other midfielder. Their coach, Guardiola, was done for doping and brought the doctor he doped with from Brescia to work with him at Barca. So there is plenty of reason to mention Barcelona in this discussion.

I have no premier league bias so stop putting words in my mouth. And you saying that Barca would have obliterated United with or without PEDs is a silly comment and one you cannot possibly know.

So lets get back to where we initially disagreed and the issue you seem to want to cloud with the above rubbish: you say PEDs do not help footballers in the same way as other sports. I say they do. Your example of Celtic having to run more so the effect of the PED is diminished is pisch.

Brain Stroking

mitosis wrote: »

I'm sorry, but are you allowed to state Barcelona were doped in the CL final? Without any supporting evidence? Is this, and a lot of what has gone on in this thread, not defamation? To contrast, even when everyone and his dog knew it, in the cycling forum it was forbidden to say Lance was a doper.

I never said they were doping. I have absolutely no evidence on me or inclination to say it. You have emboldened a quote of mine which was part of a hypothetical example. I used Barca because their name has been mentioned this week in the Spanish scandal and also because another poster brought up that particular match.

PhlegmyMoses

mitosis wrote: »

I'm sorry, but are you allowed to state Barcelona were doped in the CL final? Without any supporting evidence? Is this, and a lot of what has gone on in this thread, not defamation? To contrast, even when everyone and his dog knew it, in the cycling forum it was forbidden to say Lance was a doper.

Nobody is actually outright stating that Barca are doping. In fact, almost everyone as said that they don't believe that they are doing anything that all other teams aren't. They are being used as a hypothetical example of what would normally cause people to be suspicious.

Bodhisopha

Brain Stroking wrote: »

What are you talking about? I am using Barcelona as an example because they have been mentioned this week in light of the doctor on trial in Madrid. Other posters have spoken about Xavi's progression from an injury prone player to a machine that runs a km more than any other midfielder. Their coach, Guardiola, was done for doping and brought the doctor he doped with from Brescia to work with him at Barca. So there is plenty of reason to mention Barcelona in this discussion.

I have no premier league bias so stop putting words in my mouth. And you saying that Barca would have obliterated United with or without PEDs is a silly comment and one you cannot possibly know.

So lets get back to where we initially disagreed and the issue you seem to want to cloud with the above rubbish: you say PEDs do not help footballers in the same way as other sports. I say they do. Your example of Celtic having to run more so the effect of the PED is diminished is pisch.

You said that Barca team were 'alleged'. Where are these allegations? The Fuenta links to the best of my knowledge date back before Guardiola's time. As for Guardiola, he was cleared of all doping charges. I don't know much about the case, if it's dodgy or not, all i know is he was cleared.

As for Xavi the machine! Link to back up the stat that he runs 1km more than any other player?

Where we were initially, if you want to get back to it, is me laughing at the suggestion that a slight edge in stamina is far more advantageous than being largely superior in terms of technical ability and skills.

I never said PEDs don't help, don't be an idiot.

Brain Stroking

Bodhisopha wrote: »

You said that Barca team were 'alleged'. Where are these allegations? The Fuenta links to the best of my knowledge date back before Guardiola's time. As for Guardiola, he was cleared of all doping charges. I don't know much about the case, if it's dodgy or not, all i know is he was cleared.

As for Xavi the machine! Link to back up the stat that he runs 1km more than any other player?

Where we were initially, if you want to get back to it, is me laughing at the suggestion that a slight edge in stamina is far more advantageous than being largely superior in terms of technical ability and skills.

I never said PEDs don't help, don't be an idiot.

Alleged is a word i used to signify that i was not saying Barcelona were doping. Would "without prejudice" be preferable to you on your tangent?

Guardiola was cleared. Never said he wasnt. He was accused and had to appear and answer a case. I should not have used the word "done" as it is easily misconstrued. But he WAS accused. He DID bring the dodgy doctor with him from Brescia.

I never said there were stats that Xavi ran a mile further. I said another poster said it.

You shouldnt be laughing at any such suggestion. The suggestion is true. You seem to think that doping offers only physical advantages. It's main advantage is that the doper isnt fatigued. Not being fatigued means one can play with high concentration from start to finish. It's very simple. Notice how the first 20-30 mins of a typical premier league game are a lot tighter than the final 30 where things are deemed to have "opened up"? Doping severely alters that dynamic. Also, at the top level (where the issue of doping is relevant) not being tired over 90 minutes is a huge advantage. Especially when you are a great team like Barca who have opponents running around after them.

As for calling me an idiot, no need for that. You have used a crap example of Celtic chasing a ball and it doesnt fly. If i were going to make assumptions like you have, i would guess you just dont like Barca being implicated in this. Neither do i but i think that the lid will come off this in the next few years and we could look a lot differently at the players in our game who have been at the top over the past 10 years.

Bodhisopha

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Alleged is a word i used to signify that i was not saying Barcelona were doping. Would "without prejudice" be preferable to you on your tangent?

Guardiola was cleared. Never said he wasnt. He was accused and had to appear and answer a case. I should not have used the word "done" as it is easily misconstrued. But he WAS accused. He DID bring the dodgy doctor with him from Brescia.

I never said there were stats that Xavi ran a mile further. I said another poster said it.

You shouldnt be laughing at any such suggestion. The suggestion is true. You seem to think that doping offers only physical advantages. It's main advantage is that the doper isnt fatigued. Not being fatigued means one can play with high concentration from start to finish. It's very simple. Notice how the first 20-30 mins of a typical premier league game are a lot tighter than the final 30 where things are deemed to have "opened up"? Doping severely alters that dynamic. Also, at the top level (where the issue of doping is relevant) not being tired over 90 minutes is a huge advantage. Especially when you are a great team like Barca who have opponents running around after them.

As for calling me an idiot, no need for that. You have used a crap example of Celtic chasing a ball and it doesnt fly. If i were going to make assumptions like you have, i would guess you just dont like Barca being implicated in this. Neither do i but i think that the lid will come off this in the next few years and we could look a lot differently at the players in our game who have been at the top over the past 10 years.

Oh the things you 'never said'.

Let me break this down into manageable little chunks for you as you seem to be struggling.

A slight edge in stamina does not trump largely superior skills and ability. That was my original point. To suggest otherwise is laughable. If that were the case, the fitter team would practically always win. Agree?

You seem to be trying to shoehorn me into a different argument from that.

I know the advantages PEDs can produce, i didn't and don't need you to tell me that.

My example of Celtic was in reply to another poster who claimed that being the opposing side against Barca's tiki taka football was less tiring if they are chasing the game, and it is them who are expending more energy. Again, you seem to be shoehorning. It was a different argument.

I 'never said' you were an idiot.

mitosis

Brain Stroking wrote: »

What are you talking about? I am using Barcelona as an example because they have been mentioned this week in light of the doctor on trial in Madrid. Other posters have spoken about Xavi's progression from an injury prone player to a machine that runs a km more than any other midfielder. Their coach, Guardiola, was done for doping and brought the doctor he doped with from Brescia to work with him at Barca. So there is plenty of reason to mention Barcelona in this discussion.

I have no premier league bias so stop putting words in my mouth. And you saying that Barca would have obliterated United with or without PEDs is a silly comment and one you cannot possibly know.

So lets get back to where we initially disagreed and the issue you seem to want to cloud with the above rubbish: you say PEDs do not help footballers in the same way as other sports. I say they do. Your example of Celtic having to run more so the effect of the PED is diminished is pisch.

Now I understand what you meant, but you actually said they had allegedly had a long season, and had doped. You did not say they had allegedly doped. Seriously, reread it.

Brain Stroking

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Oh the things you 'never said'.

Let me break this down into manageable little chunks for you as you seem to be struggling.

A slight edge in stamina does not trump largely superior skills and ability. That was my original point. To suggest otherwise is laughable. If that were the case, the fitter team would practically always win. Agree?

You seem to be trying to shoehorn me into a different argument from that.

I know the advantages PEDs can produce, i didn't and don't need you to tell me that.

My example of Celtic was in reply to another poster who claimed that being the opposing side against Barca's tiki taka football was less tiring if they are chasing the game, and it is them who are expending more energy. Again, you seem to be shoehorning. It was a different argument.

I 'never said' you were an idiot.

Honestly dont get the passive aggressive sarcasm. We dont agree. Does it always need to be a mudslinging match in such circumstances?

I havent said one incorrect thing in my above post. According to me. You think you are right. According to you. And the world keeps turning

The_Kew_Tour

Anyone hear the story about West Germany team of 54 that won WC??

Seen it mentioned few times including the other day about how they used drugs to help them win.

Of course it's all rumour and so on but it's maybe the most popular one I have heard so far that I have seen.

Brain Stroking

mitosis wrote: »

Now I understand what you meant, but you actually said they had allegedly had a long season, and had doped. You did not say they had allegedly doped. Seriously, reread it.

Look, i didnt realise i would be accused of defamation. I threw allegedly in there so as to make people aware that anything i said was alleged and not an accusation.

Do i think Barca dope? I havent a clue. But i feel there has been smoke on this and there may be fire to follow. It would kill me to think Messi was doping. So i hope nothing further is found. Do i think they should look? Hell yes.

The_Kew_Tour

Brain Stroking wrote: »

Look, i didnt realise i would be accused of defamation. I threw allegedly in there so as to make people aware that anything i said was alleged and not an accusation.

Do i think Barca dope? I havent a clue. But i feel there has been smoke on this and there may be fire to follow. It would kill me to think Messi was doping. So i hope nothing further is found. Do i think they should look? Hell yes.

I am sure you will agree though that every major league should be looked at and not just Spain and then work down.

Sports like Rugby also are going to be rocked with allegations some day.

Boxing has problems too.

batistuta9

what about the GAA?

The_Kew_Tour

batistuta9 wrote: »

what about the GAA?

Hard to think that will rock the world but yes every sport has its cheats GAA is no different.

But the GAA have at least admitted there maybe a problem and looking more into it with more tests etc.

Same cant be said for football and especially rugby.

mitosis

I remember a skinny wee lad leaving Notts Forrest for a huge club and two years later he was a muscular behemoth with unbridled aggressive tendencies. All I'd say is, be careful what you wish for.

There is, as another poster noted, too much money involved for the sport not to be bent from the top down. I say sport, I mean entertainment product.

batistuta9

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Hard to think that will rock the world but yes every sport has its cheats GAA is no different.

But the GAA have at least admitted there maybe a problem and looking more into it with more tests etc.

Same cant be said for football and especially rugby.

i didn't mean it in a earthshattering way

but more is it common in it, well known by some or that, any players or teams under suspicion, etc.?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Messi has been to the Olympics, and was hoping to go in 2012 only for Argentina not to qualify. Wouldn't think he would be doping.

The_Kew_Tour

batistuta9 wrote: »

i didn't mean it in a earthshattering way

but more is it common in it, well known by some or that, any players or teams under suspicion, etc.?

I honestly dont know personally. I know 3 lads who play inter county GAA. One lad plays for a average football side in Munster.

He was convinced that certain teams were onto something.

Maybe he just jealous or maybe he has a point I can't be certain but be hard believe everybody is clean. It's just matter if it's small issue or something little more.

The_Kew_Tour

mitosis wrote: »

I remember a skinny wee lad leaving Notts Forrest for a huge club and two years later he was a muscular behemoth with unbridled aggressive tendencies. All I'd say is, be careful what you wish for.

There is, as another poster noted, too much money involved for the sport not to be bent from the top down. I say sport, I mean entertainment product.

If its who I think you are talking about then you never saw him play for Forest and secondly he is still to this day far from muscular beefcake.

But thanks for the laugh.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

batistuta9 wrote: »

what about the GAA?

Wouldn't think so. It's a completely different sport in 2 major ways, one, it's not a business. There's no real financial gain to winning, and there probably wouldn't be financial backing to implement such a plan. Two, the players are largely apart of the community, I would think if whole county panels were to start doping it would filter out very quickly indeed.

Of course, there's nothing to stop to individuals doing it, but whole teams? I would be very surprised.

764dak

THFC wrote: »

Messi has been to the Olympics, and was hoping to go in 2012 only for Argentina not to qualify. Wouldn't think he would be doping.

Many people who are suspicious of Barca/Spain say that they probably started using PEDs in the summer of 2008. They allege that Spain used it Euro 2008 and Barca started using it at the start of the 2008/2009 season or in preseason (I don't think Messi was with them until after the Olympics).

Some people even joke and say the reason Spain was so poor in 2012 Olympics was because of the strict doping policy in the Olympics.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

764dak wrote: »

Many people who are suspicious of Barca/Spain say that they probably started using PEDs in the summer of 2008. They allege that Spain used it Euro 2008 and Barca started using it at the start of the 2008/2009 season or in preseason (I don't think Messi was with them until after the Olympics).

Some people even joke and say the reason Spain was so poor in 2012 Olympics was because of the strict doping policy in the Olympics.

Messi missed the beginning of the season in 2008, so one would imagine he was there for the preseason.

If Barca & Spain are doping, I would find it highly likely that Real are too.

As for the second part, I've never heard anyone say anything along those lines.

batistuta9

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If its who I think you are talking about then you never saw him play for Forest and secondly he is still to this day far from muscular beefcake.

But thanks for the laugh.

is the person you're thinking of from Cork? :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

batistuta9 wrote: »

is the person you're thinking of from Cork? :pac:

No not cork ha.

GAA would be different from soccer in some ways. Hopefully this doesn't get misinterpreted but when lads who take going to the gym 4 days a week seriously enough to get on gear I'm sure there'll be those type of people in amongst the group of fellas training 7 days a week in various forms.

SantryRed

I think questions need to be asked on how Barcelona can go so much faster, harder and stronger than what seems to be any other team on the planet.

losthorizon

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Anyone hear the story about West Germany team of 54 that won WC??

Seen it mentioned few times including the other day about how they used drugs to help them win.

Of course it's all rumour and so on but it's maybe the most popular one I have heard so far that I have seen.

Brian Glanville repeats this endlessly. They also kicked the **** out of the Hungarian team earlier in the tournament who were by far the best team in the world at the time. When they got the final Puskas whom many regard as the best player ever was only half fit as the Germans had nobbled him earlier and the Hungarians decided to play him although they had a team of stars.

losthorizon

SantryRed wrote: »

I think questions need to be asked on how Barcelona can go so much faster, harder and stronger than what seems to be any other team on the planet.

Barca dont actually - they just pass the ball a lot. Its called skill. Drugs dont help you in that. Its the crappy running teams who need it more tbh.

SantryRed

losthorizon wrote: »

Barca dont actually - they just pass the ball a lot. Its called skill. Drugs dont help you in that. Its the crappy running teams who need it more tbh.

The way they press and win the ball back easily and they never ever seem to tire the way any other team does.

Bodhisopha

SantryRed wrote: »

The way they press and win the ball back easily and they never ever seem to tire the way any other team does.

How can you tell how much a team tires in 90 mins? Just watched the United game, didn't see their players getting stretchered off after the game.

764dak

losthorizon wrote: »

Barca dont actually - they just pass the ball a lot. Its called skill. Drugs dont help you in that. Its the crappy running teams who need it more tbh.

Many times they outrun teams.
"A Track Team That Also Plays Soccer":
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304520804576347784258478942.html

"But here is something most people don't know about Barcelona: Unlike every other famous soccer team in the world that thrives on possession and ball control, they do something unique during matches. They run as if their bikini briefs are on fire."

"The only knockout round opponent to outrun them (barely) was Ukraine's Shakhtar Donetsk"

SantryRed

Bodhisopha wrote: »

How can you tell how much a team tires in 90 mins? Just watched the United game, didn't see their players getting stretchered off after the game.

Yeah but you see the game slow down. You don't see that as much in the Barca games, especially when it is still a close game or if they're going for a goal. They are constantly playing and never seem to get tired at any point during the season.

It's also interesting how poor Spain were at the Olympics in London.

The_Kew_Tour

In fairness it is wrong to accuse a team in this case Barca of doing anything wrong without any real solid evidence.

And if they are a culprit they are not alone.

SantryRed

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In fairness it is wrong to accuse a team in this case Barca of doing anything wrong without any real solid evidence.

And if they are a culprit they are not alone.

Obviously there is no solid evidence because if there is there would be uproar in the football community.

When a team is as dominant as Barcelona was/is, questions have to be asked how they are so far ahead of every other team.

The_Kew_Tour

SantryRed wrote: »

Obviously there is no solid evidence because if there is there would be uproar in the football community.

When a team is as dominant as Barcelona was/is, questions have to be asked how they are so far ahead of every other team.

You're right I worded it little wrong.

But has anyone got hard evidence like stats that raises questions?

I mean is there any stats that put Barca to the front of any allegation?

Because if not then it would be wrong to just point finger.

Chucky the tree

SantryRed wrote: »

Yeah but you see the game slow down. You don't see that as much in the Barca games, especially when it is still a close game or if they're going for a goal. They are constantly playing and never seem to get tired at any point during the season.

It's also interesting how poor Spain were at the Olympics in London.

How many of the Spainish olympics teams played in the Euro 2012 or the World cup win?

764dak

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How many of the Spainish olympics teams played in the Euro 2012 or the World cup win?

Spain had 3 players from the Euro 2012 team. Juan Mata, Jordi Alba and Javi Martinez. However, Spain was considered favourites and many experts and fans considered that team to be far superior to the other teams (besides Brazil).

losthorizon

If success is a result of doping then surely Chelsea must be the numero uno at the moment.

SantryRed

losthorizon wrote: »

If success is a result of doping then surely Chelsea must be the numero uno at the moment.

Why?

764dak

SantryRed wrote: »

Why?

I think he is implying "financial doping".