Doping in football

MD1990

ScienceNerd wrote: »

What would a judge have to gain by protecting football. Implies corruption I suppose, would that be likely in Spain?

maybe he is being payed off for it

NIMAN

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Considering he is quoted as saying - "If I would talk, the Spanish football team would be stripped of the 2010 World Cup", I wouldn't be one bit surprised at footballers taking illegal substances.

The Spanish doping tests are next to non-existant and as has been proven in this case, it's a clear case of a higher force telling the judge what is at stake and directing her to have the samples destroyed. Otherwise, the entire credibility of Spain as a sporting nation would have been destroyed - imagine if a couple of international footballers, a tennis player and some more cyclists were among those sampled? It'd create chaos across sport.

To be honest, I think we're all a bit naive as to what is going on behind closed doors. It's rampant in most sports and those developing the drugs are ahead of those trying to develop tests for them.

So God is a Spanish football fan?:eek:

And I have always wondered why the testing people always end up with the less talented scientists?

I have no doubt that some professional footballers at the very top level are doping, and I think it will become known some day, although it might take many years. Much in the same way that we now know that some of the earlt WCs were fixed and probably should be not counted any more.

The_Kew_Tour

NIMAN wrote: »

Much in the same way that we now know that some of the earlt WCs were fixed and probably should be not counted any more.

Just curious:

Which ones are they?

NIMAN

1934, Italy won it.

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=6870

The_Kew_Tour

NIMAN wrote: »

1934, Italy won it.

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=6870

Heard plenty of things about Argentina in 78. That was only one that came to mind.

NIMAN

Well I think that its fairly well known now that the Argentina 6 - 0 Peru game in 78 was definitely fixed to get them to the final, although the width of a goalpost in the last minutes stopped holland winning the cup, so no way the final itself was fixed.

But I have read enough about the early WCs to doubt some of the titles teams won.

MaroonAndGreen

Is Creatine a banned substance?

OP seems to imply that it is, saying Zidane took it!

Never knew that :eek:

Timmyctc

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Is Creatine a banned substance?

OP seems to imply that it is, saying Zidane took it!

Never knew that :eek:

"Creatine is a nitrogenous organic acid that occurs naturally"
surely they can't ban that.

MaroonAndGreen

Timmyctc wrote: »

"Creatine is a nitrogenous organic acid that occurs naturally"
surely they can't ban that.

Yeah I was thinking it could hardly be banned!

MD1990

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Is Creatine a banned substance?

OP seems to imply that it is, saying Zidane took it!

Never knew that :eek:

no its not
most elite Sprinters use creatine

Blatter

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Is Creatine a banned substance?

OP seems to imply that it is, saying Zidane took it!

Never knew that :eek:

Fairly sure it's not banned. Think the reason the guy (that I quoted) mentioned it was because it created a bit of a stir at the time as there were question marks over it back then, not sure what real relevance it has these days though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/1776306.stm

SM01

Just on the Peter Odemwingie steroid Injection. Could that not just be something like a corticosteroid injection for pain relief - quite a common thing in football and other sports?

Red Crow

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Is Creatine a banned substance?

OP seems to imply that it is, saying Zidane took it!

Never knew that :eek:

No but often to increase effects other products are cut into creatine to improve results. These are often PED's that occur at local gym level but sometimes they can reach there way higher up the chain. Creatines results are very dubious to say the least anyway despite top athletes using it.

Football is too smart to be caught. Every sport is using them. Rugby is riddled with PEDs. In Spain it seems to be quite a big problem.

What's preventing detection at the minute is the masking drugs that prevent detection in a typical football drug test. Athletes are caught in the Olympics because of the blood samples and the level of testing done.

Football doesn't care about PEDs

Fart

Deco failed a doping test?

Timmyctc

Fart wrote: »

Deco failed a doping test?

So did Carlos Alberto. They both played at 2004 CL champs Porto. If they're doing it now I imagine they'd have been doing it then.

losthorizon

Fart wrote: »

Deco failed a doping test?

He used to play for Chelsea who used to do "independent" drug tests to check on their players.

mitosis

NIMAN wrote: »

1934, Italy won it.

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=6870

And defended it successfully 4 years later. Did Musollini also arrange that?

losthorizon

Nothing in that article suggests that Italy did anything underhand in my book. Pointless rumour. And I see Havelange gets a mention - before I would belive that guy!

http://www.euronews.com/2013/04/30/joao-havelange-resigns

Giruilla

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Is Creatine a banned substance?

OP seems to imply that it is, saying Zidane took it!

Never knew that :eek:

I'd be more concerned that Zidane played for Juve at a time when team doctor was subsequently jailed for giving players EPO injections and when they had what was described as a 'small hospital' in terms of varieties of drugs at the club.

Giruilla

Anyone else beginning to wonder whether it was Guardiolas guided tour of Bayern Munichs 'medical facilities' that persuaded him to join the club?

Giruilla

SM01 wrote: »

Just on the Peter Odemwingie steroid Injection. Could that not just be something like a corticosteroid injection for pain relief - quite a common thing in football and other sports?

If that was the case there'd be no reason to delete what he said so quickly after. He broke the golden rule - dont talk about drugs in football.

The_Kew_Tour

Giruilla wrote: »

Anyone else beginning to wonder whether it was Guardiolas guided tour of Bayern Munichs 'medical facilities' that persuaded him to join the club?

Don't want to be branding any team, management or players without any real evidence.

The timing of Barcelona poor form is interesting and ears will be open to any new developments.

Everything is speculation and coincidence though as things stand.

Giruilla

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Don't want to be branding any team, management or players without any real evidence.

The timing of Barcelona poor form is interesting and ears will be open to any new developments.

Everything is speculation and coincidence though as things stand.

I don't get the whole Barca poor form thing.. they destroyed the spanish league this year. For me I've always thought if they go an early goal down they're vulnerable, as they have to chase the game and can't rely on tiring and wearing opposition down. This is especially true against a team like Bayern who seemingly don't get 'tired' anymore.

Al Capwned

Football - Fuentes threatens to expose doping secrets for cash
Spanish doping doctor Eufemiano Fuentes could be ready to sell his secrets about his sporting clients to the highest bidder.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-fuentes-threatens-expose-doping-secrets-cash-204734841.html

kryogen

Giruilla wrote: »

I don't get the whole Barca poor form thing.. they destroyed the spanish league this year. For me I've always thought if they go an early goal down they're vulnerable, as they have to chase the game and can't rely on tiring and wearing opposition down. This is especially true against a team like Bayern who seemingly don't get 'tired' anymore.

Speak to some Barca fans, they will tell you all about the poor form.

Just because they had no competition for the league can be a bit misleading

Pro. F

Barca's style since Pep left has been changed dramatically, plus there must have been an awful lot of disruption with Vilanova's illness. I'd be on the side of thinking that PEDs are used a lot at that club, but I think the drop in form is more likely explained by the change to a less effective style of football.

MD1990

Giruilla

Al Capwned wrote: »

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-fuentes-threatens-expose-doping-secrets-cash-204734841.html

The Guardian reports that Fuentes "has sent out a list of subjects that – for a price – he is now prepared to talk publicly about. It includes Spanish Champions League football teams, London Marathon winners, Olympic medallists and a long list of cyclists he was involved with."

Interesting how he says 'teams' and not individual players.

The_Kew_Tour

He could be payed bigger sum to keep his mouth shut.

Will wait and see.

DM_7

From UEFA congress

The UEFA Executive Committee also approved new anti-doping initiatives, including the launch of a research study in order to retrospectively measure the steroid profiles of the nearly 900 players who have participated in UEFA competitions since 2008. The aim of this study will be to identify the potential prevalence of steroid use across European football by using data from previous doping controls. The study will be collective and anonymous and its findings would thus not result in any player incurring an anti-doping rule violation.
Based on the study’s results, a steroids biological profiling passport programme may be considered for future implementation within the UEFA anti-doping programme. Furthermore, the UEFA Executive Committee decided to introduce some blood tests in UEFA competitions as of the 2013/14 season, in addition to the standard urine tests. Until now, blood tests were only conducted at the final tournament of the UEFA European Football Championship.

about time but its not enough considering the money involved in football and potential rewards for cheating.

Dempsey

The study will be collective and anonymous and its findings would thus not result in any player incurring an anti-doping rule violation.

What a joke tbh

losthorizon

Giruilla wrote: »

Anyone else beginning to wonder whether it was Guardiolas guided tour of Bayern Munichs 'medical facilities' that persuaded him to join the club?

So you are making the accusation that Bayern are Doping their players? Have I got that right?

Despite never having failed a drugs test or any sort of speculation in the media?

Would not a club like Chelsea who were doing independent drug tests to check if their players would show up positive in a drugs test not arose more distrust?

Event Europes slowest acting FA took action in this case! Although they didnt rumble it.

Giruilla

losthorizon wrote: »

So you are making the accusation that Bayern are Doping their players? Have I got that right?

Despite never having failed a drugs test or any sort of speculation in the media?

Would not a club like Chelsea who were doing independent drug tests to check if their players would show up positive in a drugs test not arose more distrust?

Event Europes slowest acting FA took action in this case! Although they didnt rumble it.

You were posting earlier in this thread how doping could be of no benefit in football as its a game of 'skill'.

So, after watching Bayern win the Champions League and pretty much every single journalist, manager and even footballers themselves such as Messi commenting on the advantage of their superior physique and stamina, boys against men comments.. do you still doubt that doping, epo and hgh use could be of no benefit in football?

Bertser

I don't understand how Chelsea voluntarily testing their players for drug use is suspicious?

Giruilla

kryogen wrote: »

Speak to some Barca fans, they will tell you all about the poor form.

Just because they had no competition for the league can be a bit misleading

Barcelona currently on 97 points to Reals 82.. on track to get highest points total in don't know how many years..

dreamers75

Bertser wrote: »

I don't understand how Chelsea voluntarily testing their players for drug use is suspicious?

Rumour was they were "informed" one of their players was a coke head.

Seems they were proved right.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/richard-sadlier-lofty-ideals-soon-vanish-when-youre-the-man-in-charge-29023489.html

related note Sadlier wanted to drug test the St Pats team (heh Pats fans called Junkies by other clubs in ireland )

Giruilla

Giruilla wrote: »

Barcelona currently on 97 points to Reals 82.. on track to get highest points total in don't know how many years..

Ah.. that would be ever.

losthorizon

If you are taking performance enhancing drugs doing regular drugs tests is also a good way of checking to see if your players would fail an official drugs test or not.

Morzadec

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23573169

Story coming out about West Germany sponsoring doping in sports - this would include football.

That guy Giggs-Boson on Twitter who seems to be one of the most vocal about this subject is saying that the 1954 WC winning team could have been doped as well as the 66 finalists.

I know it's a long time ago, but it's still a shame to hear.

Also shows that this may have been in football for a long, long time. I'd imagine it may not have been just the Germans at it

Frankie Lee

Morzadec wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23573169

Story coming out about West Germany sponsoring doping in sports - this would include football.

That guy Giggs-Boson on Twitter who seems to be one of the most vocal about this subject is saying that the 1954 WC winning team could have been doped as well as the 66 finalists.

I know it's a long time ago, but it's still a shame to hear.

Also shows that this may have been in football for a long, long time. I'd imagine it may not have been just the Germans at it

Posted before but always worth reading
http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

Rubber_Soul

Morzadec wrote: »

That guy Giggs-Boson on Twitter who seems to be one of the most vocal about this subject

Lost an awful lot of respect for this lad when he immediately started insinuating PED's were the cause of Christian Benitez's death the other day.

The_Kew_Tour

I be interested to see what came about that West German team afterwards or any team in that era linked with doping

Did there players suffer suffer bad health within say 10-15 years after they stopped? What ages were the players who have passed away died etc.

Of course you will get few in both categories, but if there is greater percentage then average then it would raise eyebrows. Something I might look into myself someday im bored.:)

Dempsey

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2401478/How-world-class-athletes-drugs--away-it.html

Eight of the most explosively gifted sprinters in the world are settling into their blocks on the start line of the 100m final at a major championship. The tension is almost unbearable; the rewards for success are huge.

To the spectators in the stadium and millions of fans watching on TV around the world, it is a spectacle without equal in sport.

But what very few of them will even suspect is that it is statistically likely that at least one of those runners will have a genetic make-up allowing him to take performance-enhancing steroids for his entire career — and never fail a drug test.

Science fiction? Far from it.

Shocking stuff, drug testing is largely a waste of time if true

Theresalwaysone

What do you think are the chances of top football players doping?

A certain spanish doctor is supposedly peddling names to the highest bidder. The opportunity and money is there to make it worthwhile.

Do you think its a non issue or is it a huge crisis waiting to happen? Or are there some players doping but by and large soccer is clean?

Personally Id be very surprised if the sport wasnt riddled with it given the advantages and money involved.

The_Kew_Tour

Yes doping is in football in all corners to some degree.

Some more then others. Truth will always come out. Be it 1 day or 10 years from now.

godtabh

I reckon its common place. Not sure how well managed testing is but I reckon a lot of teams are at it. Juve were a big example of a team that did dodgy things (but noting proved) during Zidane's time there

GavRedKing

There was a huge thread on this not so long ago, I'll try dig it up and merge.

Mitch Connor

Would be shocked if PEDs, to some degree, are not being used by all the top clubs. The benefits are too great. The recovery times of players from match to match are too great. the recovery times from injury are far too quick.

With regards to Juve - around that time they were running United off the pitch whenever we played them. Suddenly - from the treble season onwards - United were able to not only match them but run them into the ground in the 93rd minute.

Maybe Juve were cycling off, maybe United were 'catching up'.

GavRedKing

threads merged.

GavRedKing

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Would be shocked if PEDs, to some degree, are not being used by all the top clubs. The benefits are too great. The recovery times of players from match to match are too great. the recovery times from injury are far too quick.

With regards to Juve - around that time they were running United off the pitch whenever we played them. Suddenly - from the treble season onwards - United were able to not only match them but run them into the ground in the 93rd minute.

Maybe Juve were cycling off, maybe United were 'catching up'.

Juventus is certainly an interesting case in point and more recently there has been accusations aimed towards the Barca team and anybody linked to Fuentes.

I've no doubt its happening at some level of football, as pointed out above the benefits are huge regarding injuries and recovery time, so if it is happening why isnt it being picked up by anti-doping agencies.