Doping in football

The_Kew_Tour

bucketybuck wrote: »

While there might be a player or two caught, I would actually be very surprised if it turned out doping was ever an institutional thing at United for one very scientific reason, have you seen their bloody injury lists over the last few years!!!

Considering the amount of injuries if that squad is doping then they sure are bad at it.

I be fairly confident that is the case having what I have researched myself over past number of years.

Player(s) doing it on the side though is a different matter.

Every club or player though is innocent till proven guilty for now.

Giruilla

I am pie wrote: »

Doping would have nothing to do with preventing injuries, in fact, you could argue that allowing the human body to surpass it's inherent performance levels could be increase susceptibility to injury.

Steroids and hgh are used to boost recovery time from high performance games and grueling work outs. Pretty common knowledge to someone even uninterested in the subject.
You're more likely to develop an injury by not giving the body time to recover and reduce cortisol levels. Steroids help build muscle mass and reduce or block cortisol in the body. The benefits to an individual footballer or a team that wants to field their best players at high intensity week in week out are incredible. Especially say for two teams like Barca and Real who are afraid to drop even a single point each week seeing as how high the points tally is each year. (This of course can apply to numerous other teams).

Recovery time is the main reason why Nadal and Djokovic are under so much suspicion in the non mass media tennis world. They're playing five set slug fests the like never seen before and coming back two days later for another bout like its nothing to them.

As for Ronaldo, apart from all the obvious, theres one reason I'd be convinced he currently juices or has done in the past:

"Is football a clean sport? Yes, 100 per cent. I don't think these types of things exist."

Ronaldo, Feb 2013

The_Kew_Tour

Giruilla wrote: »

Recovery time is the main reason why Nadal and Djokovic are under so much suspicion in the non mass media tennis world. They're playing five set slug fests the like never seen before and coming back two days later for another bout like its nothing to them.


Ronaldo, Feb 2013

Just out of interest would you have any links to anything about Tennis or good articles in relation to Tennis and Doping?

Sounds interesting.

Heard few rumbles about Nadal, but im not sure if that is because he is Spanish full stop.

Only have minor interest in Tennis, but be intereting reading if somebody has solid eveidence or suspicion.

mitosis

bucketybuck wrote: »

While there might be a player or two caught, I would actually be very surprised if it turned out doping was ever an institutional thing at United for one very scientific reason, have you seen their bloody injury lists over the last few years!!!

Considering the amount of injuries if that squad is doping then they sure are bad at it.

Doping isn't done to prevent injury. In football it has to be to increase stamina. In your own example, Man U are legend for still being full of go even after 90 minutes, even when the opposition has expired.

Giruilla

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just out of interest would you have any links to anything about Tennis or good articles in relation to Tennis and Doping?

Nadal -
http://oncourt.ca/news/2013/03/22/michael-emmett-is-there-a-connection-between-rafa-and-lance/
http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Doping,-Tennis,-Nadal-Connection.aspx
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ie/2011/02/curious-case-of-rafael-nadal.html

Tennis in general -
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ie/p/recommended-reading.html the site has been doing a great job for years

The ridiculousness that is Serena Williams -
http://nypost.com/2011/11/02/serena-williams-locks-herself-in-panic-room-in-drug-test-mix-up/

mitosis wrote: »

Doping isn't done to prevent injury. In football it has to be to increase stamina. In your own example, Man U are legend for still being full of go even after 90 minutes, even when the opposition has expired.

I'd argue doping is done equally for injury prevention, stamina and strength.
I'm a United fan and would be surprised if certain players aren't/haven't been doing it on an individual basis for years.. notably players who seemed to bulk up and double in size over the summer.. of which United have had a few. Personally don't think its at club level though.

NIMAN

I think its safe to assume, given the huge amount of money in football, and indeed tennis, that doping does take place.

Thing is with football, if the big stars were caught doping it would ruin the image, and income of the sport, so much that I genuinely believe that the authorities do their best to make sure testing is so slack or infrequent that its easily got round.

But I think in years to come, might be a long time in the future, we will hear the truth about doping in the game that would shock you.

brevity

Giruilla wrote: »

Nadal -
http://oncourt.ca/news/2013/03/22/michael-emmett-is-there-a-connection-between-rafa-and-lance/
http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Doping,-Tennis,-Nadal-Connection.aspx
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ie/2011/02/curious-case-of-rafael-nadal.html

I'd consider myself a fan of Nadal and while I think that those who cheat should be dealt with accordingly, I'd be very disappointed if he was found guilty.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Just out of interest would you have any links to anything about Tennis or good articles in relation to Tennis and Doping?

I know it's not evidence but over the last 5 years-ish there's been such a jump in the physicality involved that it's hard to imagine it being down to a couple of people coming up with new nutrition ideas or training concepts, the jump has just been massive.

The_Kew_Tour

Giruilla wrote: »

Nadal -
http://oncourt.ca/news/2013/03/22/michael-emmett-is-there-a-connection-between-rafa-and-lance/
http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Doping,-Tennis,-Nadal-Connection.aspx
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ie/2011/02/curious-case-of-rafael-nadal.html

Tennis in general -
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ie/p/recommended-reading.html the site has been doing a great job for years

The ridiculousness that is Serena Williams -
http://nypost.com/2011/11/02/serena-williams-locks-herself-in-panic-room-in-drug-test-mix-up/



I'd argue doping is done equally for injury prevention, stamina and strength.
I'm a United fan and would be surprised if certain players aren't/haven't been doing it on an individual basis for years.. notably players who seemed to bulk up and double in size over the summer.. of which United have had a few. Personally don't think its at club level though.

Cheers for those. Will have a loom at them when get a chance.

Deleted User wrote: »

I know it's not evidence but over the last 5 years-ish there's been such a jump in the physicality involved that it's hard to imagine it being down to a couple of people coming up with new nutrition ideas or training concepts, the jump has just been massive.

Ya it is interesting that 3-4 players have pretty much dominated the game nearly week in week out.

Its like Tiger in Golf. There was rumours about him too with his injury in 2009 and how drugs testing came in just when he decided to have a op on his knee.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ya it is interesting that 3-4 players have pretty much dominated the game nearly week in week out.

Its like Tiger in Golf. There was rumours about him too with his injury in 2009 and how drugs testing came in just when he decided to have a op on his knee.

I wouldn't exactly look at the top bracket all in the same way. Federer was a class above for years til a couple of others came along in a different fashion, none have the look of class to their strokes that he does.

In golf it really is hard to know one way or another about how widespread it is. When Tiger came along the sport was full of out-of-condition middle-aged men so there was bound to be a big leap forward. When someone like Miguel Angel Jiminez can still win tournaments at his age, condition and lifestyle if there are players doping then they really need to take a good look at themselves :pac:

Does doping improve boards posting skills? I'm awaiting a scandal on here. Who's been to Spain recently?

Turtyturd

rarnes1 wrote: »

Does doping improve boards posting skills? I'm awaiting a scandal on here. Who's been to Spain recently?

There's only one poster who has graduated in the posting style of La Maisa.

SantryRed

Think SpiritoftheSeventies was given a test batch a few years ago, made him insane.

Richard Hillman

The doping control system for the World Cup in Brazil has been deemed unsuitable and samples will now be flown to Switzerland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24920230


I dont know what to think of that tbh. Who will be carrying the samples to Switzerland? How on Earth does Brazil not have sufficient doping control considering they have all this time to plan for the WC and have the Olympics in 2016.

Timmyctc

just out of interest is this Barca's first injury crisis since before Guardiola was manager? :pac:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25049725

The_Kew_Tour

If proof was needed;)
http://balls.ie/football/neymar-isnt-drugs-drugs/

Rayne Wooney

I think most teams who haven't done it will start soon enough.

What's the point in a few years down the line, being worse off financially, and worse off in terms of success but being able to say "we didn't dope" and without anything to even prove it, and no repercussions against the doping teams either.

Look at Lance Armstrong, made his fortune by doing it an now doesn't care and all that's happened is a few medals were taken away apparently.


FIFA can't crack down because football's most successful teams are probably the major players. It's all in limbo at the moment and I can't see it ever changing.

death1234567

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think most teams who haven't done it will start soon enough.

I'd say that's bollock all teams to be honest. Whether its to boost performance or to speed up healing you can be sure any club with even semi significant financial resources has a club doctor/physio who is armed to the teeth with every drug under the sun. Porridge with Honey, milk and Human growth hormone is the food of champions.

Giruilla

death1234567 wrote: »

I'd say that's bollock all teams to be honest. Whether its to boost performance or to speed up healing you can be sure any club with even semi significant financial resources has a club doctor/physio who is armed to the teeth with every drug under the sun. Porridge with Honey, milk and Human growth hormone is the food of champions.

Sure one NBA owner is making comments to try get the drug legal.. clear indicator it already has widespread usage. Its widely accepted its rampant in the NFL already.. can't imagine its not the same for rugby and football.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2013/11/24/mark-cuban-hgh-human-growth-hormone-legalize-david-stern-bud-selig/3692783/
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/14/sports/la-sp-farmer-nfl-hgh-20130815

The richer a team is - the better their drugs. More access, more control, more power.

'As far as I am concerned my medical staff are one of the main reasons why we have been so successful over the last few years.'

Alex Ferguson

TheMilkyPirate

I don't understand doping really tbh, What drugs are they taking and what exactly do they do? If I took what some of the top players are allegedely taking what would happen me would I be faster stronger more focused?

Richard Hillman

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

I don't understand doping really tbh, What drugs are they taking and what exactly do they do? If I took what some of the top players are allegedely taking what would happen me would I be faster stronger more focused?

You can maintain your performance for much longer and occasions when you are out of breath and cannot run anymore are decreased. All that would lead to increased focus/concentration and ball control abilities. Think of your first touch in the first 5 mins of a game compared to the last 5 mins.

It makes it a lot easier to defend too.

Rayne Wooney

Depends which ones they are allegedly using and nobody but the players and doctors know.

EPO that Armstrong allegedly used increases red blood cells which means your body can carry more oxygen and faster to your muscles, so your endurance is insane

Is it possible a certain team used this during a period when their players were playing an incredible amount of games, who knows.

Mr_A

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Is it possible a certain team used this during a period when their players were playing an incredible amount of games, who knows.

There is strong reason to believe this happened at Juventus in the 90's as per an investigation in Italy (although appeals are in progress):

It was a remarkable era, but now the brilliance of that team and their dominance has been seriously questioned, and there are many in Italy who are asking whether it was all too good to be true. That's certainly what the Italian courts think. Last Friday in Turin's Palazzo di Giustizia, Judge Giuseppe Casalbore sentenced Agricola to 22 months in jail for supplying Juventus players with performance-enhancing drugs, including the banned blood-boosting hormone erythropoietin (EPO), between 1994 and 1998. Agricola was also barred from practising medicine for 22 months and fined €2,000 (£1,390).

There are plenty more hair raising facts in the full story: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-drug-scandal-that-blackens-the-name-of-juves-team-of-the-nineties-6156776.html

LiamoSail

Mr_A wrote: »

There is strong reason to believe this happened at Juventus in the 90's as per an investigation in Italy (although appeals are in progress):
]

I think Juve competing fairly would be more of a shock to most, then any revelation about them doping, or what ever else they're up to

KingJamsie

@giggs_boson: Powell said he received injections from Bayern Munich doctor, among the same injections his own doping doctor would give him.

Mr_A

A piece which mentions that here: http://sport.iafrica.com/others/893815.html

Dempsey

KingJamsie wrote: »

@giggs_boson: Powell said he received injections from Bayern Munich doctor, among the same injections his own doping doctor would give him.

I hope he names & shames everyone involved

Rayne Wooney

Bayern in on it as well do you think?

Giruilla

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Bayern in on it as well do you think?

They look physically stronger, more powerful and fitter than every team they play against. But football is a skill sport so that shouldnt matter.

Agueroooo

Giruilla wrote: »

They look physically stronger, more powerful and fitter than every team they play against. But football is a skill sport so that shouldnt matter.

Dempsey

Giruilla wrote: »

They look physically stronger, more powerful and fitter than every team they play against. But football is a skill sport so that shouldnt matter.

To be a great exponent of the skills & intelligence in football, you need high fitness levels, higher the better. There are rare exceptions of course

ronjo

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Bayern in on it as well do you think?

Absolutely...... kick em out of Champions League.

Quarter finals for Gooners

Rayne Wooney

Surely they wouldn't need to dope at all then if they have the most skilful team?

Giruilla

Some suspect quotes from Wenger in this article

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/04/arsenal-injuries-supplements-arsene-wenger

AdamD

Giruilla wrote: »

Some suspect quotes from Wenger in this article

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/04/arsenal-injuries-supplements-arsene-wenger

Supplements are legal..

Giruilla

AdamD wrote: »

Supplements are legal..

Yeah the supplements that rapidly develop parts of your body and leave you with muscle strain..

losthorizon

AdamD wrote: »

Supplements are legal..

They are also taking medication ( Legal) according to that article that the club dont know about.

Now unless a player is hugely and I mean hugely clued up on what he is taking some of that stuff could be illegal. Its downright dangerous and ****ing stupid.

AdamD

Giruilla wrote: »

Yeah the supplements that rapidly develop parts of your body and leave you with muscle strain..

losthorizon wrote: »

They are also taking medication ( Legal) according to that article that the club dont know about.

Now unless a player is hugely and I mean hugely clued up on what he is taking some of that stuff could be illegal. Its downright dangerous and ****ing stupid.

You really don't need to be hugely clued up on supplements to know whether something is legal or not. Jesus Christ.

Giruilla

AdamD wrote: »

You really don't need to be hugely clued up on supplements to know whether something is legal or not. Jesus Christ.

Whats your point? Why would you presume the supplements they took/take are legal?

Because the article has an emphasis on using the word 'legal' whilst wenger never actually mentions it.

Winston Payne

Giruilla wrote: »

Whats your point? Why would you presume the supplements they took/take are legal?

Because the article has an emphasis on using the word 'legal' whilst wenger never actually mentions it.

He never mentions it because it goes without saying for him. Unless you think he'd no compunction about saying "Ah yeah, we're hopping them full of drugs there"?

losthorizon

AdamD wrote: »

You really don't need to be hugely clued up on supplements to know whether something is legal or not. Jesus Christ.

err thats not what I said. I referred to medicines as does that article. Go back and read it again

Giruilla

Winston Payne wrote: »

He never mentions it because it goes without saying for him. Unless you think he'd no compunction about saying "Ah yeah, we're hopping them full of drugs there"?

did you even read that article?? it's about an internal enquiry wenger did about what they could be doing without his knowledge..

Winston Payne

Giruilla wrote: »

did you even read that article?? it's about an internal enquiry wenger did about what they could be doing without his knowledge..

My point stands. Guilt simply isn't in question for Wenger, it's a complete non-factor.


For Wenger. I didn't say he was right.

Giruilla

Winston Payne wrote: »

My point stands. Guilt simply isn't in question for Wenger, it's a complete non-factor.


For Wenger. I didn't say he was right.

have no idea what your point is or why you are assuming you know exactly what wenger thinks.

batistuta9

Giruilla wrote: »

have no idea what your point is or why you are assuming you know exactly what wenger thinks.

What is your point?

You think this is an admission by wenger that players are doping?

Giruilla

batistuta9 wrote: »

What is your point?

You think this is an admission by wenger that players are doping?

Its an admission that players are taking supplements on their own behest, which are either legal or illegal, but are ultimately causing his players injuries such as muscle strain.

He also referred to players potentially having liver problems, which is hazard from having used epo style drugs.

You realise when someone says 'supplement', it can refer to anything.. vitamin c, creatine, hgh...

ManofStraw

Excerpt from Pirlo's book makes some interesting comments about that Depo comeback:

Also on the Champions League, Pirlo revealed his suspicions about Deportivo La Coruna's players after they beat Milan in the 2004 quarter-finals - coming from behind to win the second leg 4-0, which took them through 5-4 on aggregate.

"We'd won the first game 4-1 and the chances of us not going through were roughly equal to those of seeing Rino Gattuso complete an arts degree," Pirlo wrote.

"We'd won the first game 4-1 and the chances of us not going through were roughly equal to those of seeing Rino Gattuso complete an arts degree."

"What struck me most was how they kept on running at half-time. To a man: no exceptions. When the referee, Urs Meier, blew his whistle they all shot off down the tunnel as if they were Usain Bolt. They couldn't stand still even in that 15-minute period designed specifically to let you draw breath or at most just walk about.

"We were chasing shadows all night. Their players were crazy buzz bombs flying around all over the place. I don't have any proof, so what follows isn't an accusation - I'd never allow myself to go that far. It's simply a nasty thought I've occasionally let percolate in the intervening years.

"For the first and only time in my life, I've wondered if people I'd shared a pitch with might have been on something."

Rayne Wooney

Awaits book from Depo player saying "they all looked like they had been on the sauce the night before, 4-1 ahead they thought they were already through"

Giruilla

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Awaits book from Depo player saying "they all looked like they had been on the sauce the night before, 4-1 ahead they thought they were already through"

Which would explain why they kept on running through half time?

Wonder how big a wake-up call Pirlo would have gotten if he joined Barca. Certainly would have been required to change his game up movement/stamina wise.

GTR63

Giruilla wrote: »

Which would explain why they kept on running through half time? Wonder how big a wake-up call Pirlo would have gotten if he joined Barca. Certainly would have been required to change his game up movement/stamina wise.

Didn't someone in the Italian set up say they were shocked Spain were so much more energetic in the final of Euro 2012 compared to the group stage game. Think it was Pirlo or Buffon who said it, not saying its an exclusively Spanish thing but it is weird that they were a bit lethargic for the semi final and ran like dogs in the final