Doping in football

Pro. F

AdamD wrote: »

You really don't need to be hugely clued up on supplements to know whether something is legal or not. Jesus Christ.

Yes you do. If you're just taking off-the-shelf stuff from your local Boots you probably won't go wrong, except for maybe the odd cold remedy which can sometimes be dodgy. But athletes taking supplements often go far beyond the high street suppliers in search of an edge. Through specialist doctors, medical suppliers and just mail-order craziness. The stuff you can get your hands on legally, will many times contain things that are prohibited in your sport. And working out what is in the supplement you are using gets very complex, very quickly.

Seaneh

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes you do. If you're just taking off-the-shelf stuff from your local Boots you probably won't go wrong, except for maybe the odd cold remedy which can sometimes be dodgy. But athletes taking supplements often go far beyond the high street suppliers in search of an edge. Through specialist doctors, medical suppliers and just mail-order craziness. The stuff you can get your hands on legally, will many times contain things that are prohibited in your sport. And working out what is in the supplement you are using gets very complex, very quickly.

Professional footballers at any level above part time don't take anything without clearing it with their clubs medical staff first or having a medical exemption for taking it.

If a pro gets caught doping, you can be sure as **** his club knew he was doing it.

Milan players have bloods takes a few times a month, Milan know EXACTLY what is in their blood, oxygen levels, epo levels, everything.
If Milan know, then so do every other "big" club.
If a player from Milan or any other club of that stature get caught there are only 2 outcomes, the club knew he was doping and let him carry on doing it on his own accord or they were involved with him doing it directly.

Pro. F

Giruilla wrote: »

Its an admission that players are taking supplements on their own behest, which are either legal or illegal, but are ultimately causing his players injuries such as muscle strain.

He also referred to players potentially having liver problems, which is hazard from having used epo style drugs.

You realise when someone says 'supplement', it can refer to anything.. vitamin c, creatine, hgh...

My understanding is that it is a hazard from using any medication, including run-of-the-mill diet supplements.

Pro. F

Seaneh wrote: »

Professional footballers at any level above part time don't take anything without clearing it with their clubs medical staff first or having a medical exemption for taking it.

If a pro gets caught doping, you can be sure as **** his club knew he was doing it.

Milan players have bloods takes a few times a month, Milan know EXACTLY what is in their blood, oxygen levels, epo levels, everything.
If Milan know, then so do every other "big" club.
If a player from Milan or any other club of that stature get caught there are only 2 outcomes, the club knew he was doping and let him carry on doing it on his own accord or they were involved with him doing it directly.

Wenger thinks that some of his players take supplements without the club's knowledge. That is what the article was all about. I was responding specifically to the claim that you don't need to be hugely clued up to know whether a supplement is legal or not.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that all big clubs are equal when it comes to how well they monitor their players. Although I do think it would be madness for any top flight professional club to not be monitoring their players bloods. It would still be possible for a player to dope on their own and work around their team's testing. I would still think that a team should be punished if their players are found to be doped up.

Seaneh

Pro. F wrote: »

Wenger thinks that some of his players take supplements without the club's knowledge. That is what the article was all about. I was responding specifically to the claim that you don't need to be hugely clued up to know whether a supplement is legal or not.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that all big clubs are equal when it comes to how well they monitor their players. Although I do think it would be madness for any top flight professional club to not be monitoring their players bloods. It would still be possible for a player to dope on their own and work around their team's testing. I would still think that a team should be punished if their players are found to be doped up.

Any player who takes supplements without getting clearance from their employers is an idiot, and if they get caught for something stupid on the ban list like ephedrine , it's the own fault and their club should have the right to either terminate their contract or suspend then without pay until the ban expires.

Maradonna was banned in 1994 for ephedrine (that's what he tested positive for during the greece match in the world cup).

He was training alone in the run up to the world cup to be fit enough to play. He'd bene training in Argentina and was using supplements which the AFA had cleared him to use and complied with the ban list.

He spent the last few weeks before the squad met up in the US training by himself with his personal trainer in Miami. They bought the same supplements, made by the same company in the same packaging in the US and didn't realise it had Ephedrine in it, apparently Ephedrine wasn't banned in most sports in the US at the time so was commonly used in supplements for athletes looking to control body fat because it promotes weight loss.

This is a perfect example of someone who was caught out using something they thought was ok but wasn't so I get what you are saying.

That said, him or his trainer should have been smart enough to buy enough of the product in argentina before going to the US or checking that the US version was compliant before they started using it, it's their own fault.

batistuta9

Wenger said it could even be hair treatments causing it, the liver not working properly in the article

I was looking for the interview on the arsenal site but can't find it, thought it was the pre Everton press conference but it wasn't on the video

Anyway the reason was to see what was asked, papers aren't great for context. Was he speaking about his players, players in general. He'll waffle abit when he doesn't want to give direct answers.

They talked a bit about doping on second captains TV show last week, was interesting enough

Giruilla

batistuta9 wrote: »

Wenger said it could even be hair treatments causing it, the liver not working properly in the article

Think you misinterpreted that a bit. He was just making the point that any drug will have side effects to a different part of your body.. without alluding to what drugs would cause liver problems.

batistuta9 wrote: »

They talked a bit about doping on second captains TV show last week, was interesting enough

Where, in case you missed it, Richard Sadlier admitted he took banned substances at Millwall during his best season there. (imagine what clubs with real money are doing to their players)

In other news.. that was a fantastic sprint from Bale last night. What natural ability..

batistuta9

Giruilla wrote: »

Think you misinterpreted that a bit. He was just making the point that any drug will have side effects to a different part of your body.. without alluding to what drugs would cause liver problems.

maybe, though that's why i was looking for the video. papers don't give the context at all, chop and change things to suit what they write or show like on sky s. news

it's hard to know what way this came up or what, like i said wenger can waffle at times, especially if he's not keen on actually answering the question about arsenal.
he could've been asked about their medical review and deflected directly away from it

i wouldn't doubt it goes on in football, though i'm a bit surprised journos don't ask wenger about it more as he'd likely say

Giruilla wrote: »

Where, in case you missed it, Richard Sadlier admitted he took banned substances at Millwall during his best season there. (imagine what clubs with real money are doing to their players)

In other news.. that was a fantastic sprint from Bale last night. What natural ability..

no i watched it. thanks for your concern though.

i heard him saying that before as well, did he feature on dispatches on channel 4 or a similar type program?

Giruilla

batistuta9 wrote: »

no i watched it. thanks for your concern though.

I was stating that for anyone who hadnt seen it..

it's amazing a player can admit live on tv he doped, and it won't be reported or seen as a revelation anywhere.
that was at millwall, a championship club... and people still can't imagine teams like barcelona/bayern doping when theres literally hundreds of millions more at stake, and they're running 12/13km matches week in week out..

Al Capwned

Giruilla wrote: »

Think you misinterpreted that a bit. He was just making the point that any drug will have side effects to a different part of your body.. without alluding to what drugs would cause liver problems.


Where, in case you missed it, Richard Sadlier admitted he took banned substances at Millwall during his best season there. (imagine what clubs with real money are doing to their players)

In other news.. that was a fantastic sprint from Bale last night. What natural ability..

I've had a quick search and can't find anything, I would be interested in hearing this - would anyone have a link to it? Ta.

Al Capwned

Al Capwned wrote: »

I've had a quick search and can't find anything, I would be interested in hearing this - would anyone have a link to it? Ta.

He said it on a show on RTE 2 last week, can't remember the name of it. Brian Carney and Derval O'Rourke were on the show as well.

Lumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

He said it on a show on RTE 2 last week, can't remember the name of it. Brian Carney and Derval O'Rourke were on the show as well.

Second Captains Live??? You might find it on the RTE player.

Al Capwned

Sound job guys thanks.

Here ye go. From 4:20 in.
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10271696/

Pro. F

(edit: this is a reply to a post from the Atletico Madrid v Real Madrid match thread)

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

With regards cycling, it was the Festina affair that kinda blew it all up first but there was still a decade or so after that and it was all kept under wraps because Armstrong and the UCI wanted it that way. Those in around cycling knew that everyone was doping but they all felt it was a level playing field (except it wasn't, it was a case of the best doping program won - and if that wasn't Lance then you could be expected to be found out and disqualified). But it also relied heavily on all members of the team such as the soignors and management all keeping stum aswell as opposition - there was a code of silence amongst all teams.

The Festina affair was a case of PEDs being found in team vehicles and hotels during a tour. It all started with a customs check at a border and then the police and customs pursued it. It's harder to keep doping secret in cycling because of all the travelling they have to do. Yet they still managed to operate a code of silence for years.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

American football is different too in that players don't use during the season or they will get banned for 4 games up to an entire season. However, the teams will say "OK, you need to go away and get bigger..." and players go away on their offseason and do what they have to do in order to get bigger - usually using PED's and other growth hormones. The teams, whilst saying they know nothing about what they player does in offseason and not being responsible for them (they don't get paid by teams in offseason) will not be naive enough to not know how a guy has put on massive bulk of muscle in a short space of time. But they won't care.

Football is different in that I don't think you could run a doping program all that effectively without word getting out somewhere. I don't think an entire team of players and doctors would be able to keep that in house. Only chance you have is on an individual basis where an agent could say 'you need to take this, everyone else is doing it, but you cannot say anything about it'. And he could have a large group on his books.

As you say though, if UEFA/FIFA don't want this to come out then it will never do.

NFL players definitely dope during the season. Injury recovery and muscle recovery is a huge reason for doping and they need that in season.

I don't agree that it's so hard for football clubs to keep doping quiet. They manage to do it in other sports, with bigger teams and under more difficult circumstances. And even when it does come out in football it doesn't cause much of a stir anyway.

Pro. F

(This also comes from the Atletico v Real thread)

Sheepy99 wrote: »

If this was happening, as someone suggested, i'm sure a whistleblower would have crept up somewhere by now.

They have done. Have you heard about the players and staff who blew the whistle on the Dutch teams from the 70s? Do you hear that getting mentioned much whenever they are talked about on TV, or do the media rather just focus on the style of football? Are you aware that Juventus were found guilty of doping during the 90s? That all started when Zdenek Zemen, the Roma manager, made claims and then state prosecutors followed them up. Do you know that Carlos Queiroz was banned for six months for interfering with doping testers' work?

Sheepy99 wrote: »

As regards certain teams, Dortmund only had that intensity for one season(at the highest(European) level).
As injuries have really held them back this season i'd be inclined to think that it's just certain individuals in their team could train themselves to that level of fitness. If not then why couldn't the players who come in replicate it? (maybe not in technique, but they were definitely slower when breaking ) Their thin squad was more than exposed this year.

Dortmund have played with the same crazy intensity for a good few seasons, not just one.

Sheepy99 wrote: »

As for Barca, personally i don't like them but I don't think there's a case for them doping at all.
The tiki-taka was just after being perfected, with players who had the technique and team spirit to carry it out, always fighting for each other. They were heavily reliant on what can't be denied, was a god-like Messi at the time. I wouldn't call doping, it was just that Messi's influence was so big. I could be wrong but I don't think they had a razor thin squad either. Young players on the bench but they more than performed when needed (Jeffren to make it 5-0 in the clasico as a loose example)

I don't know if it was suggested, but if anyone thinks that they stopped doping after '11 (if they were of course) , i'd just be inclined to think that teams realised how to stop them, similar to 06-07 in England when teams figured out how to stop Mourinho's Chelsea in the league who for the 2 seasons before that were fairly unstoppable in the league.

Barcelona's style changed as soon as Pep left. Regardless of what you think about the likelihood of them doping, putting their drop in success down to other teams figuring them out misses the point that they changed style before that happened.

During the years of their domination their first eleven players were used far more than most teams. And together with the Spanish international team the likes of Xavi and Iniesta played an unreal amount of football. Add that to the fact that they played at such an insanely high intensity and the fact that there are direct links between the club and coach and doping in the past and it is naive to not at least suspect them of doping.

The_Kew_Tour

have to be honest I have serious question marks over some of there running stats since 2009.

Ground covered etc is much higher then before.

Rayne Wooney

It would be interesting to see Atleticos fitness stats over the past 5 of 6 years to see if there is a big variance

UnitedIrishman

Pro. F wrote: »

The Festina affair was a case of PEDs being found in team vehicles and hotels during a tour. It all started with a customs check at a border and then the police and customs pursued it. It's harder to keep doping secret in cycling because of all the travelling they have to do. Yet they still managed to operate a code of silence for years.

It wasn't all that hard - if you've the right doctor giving you the right timeline of when to take EPO. Tyler Hamilton said how they'd take maybe 400-500 units of EPO each night rather than 2000 units every 3-4 days so that they wouldn't be 'glowing' (show up on a test as over the limit).

Then they'd use little red eggs (testosterone) and other patches that looked like plasters with a gel center to give them a kick in race too without showing up. But with all the travelling it was so easy - employ a man whose job it is to go ahead each day with all the doping gear on a motorbike and clear the border. And to get rid of the needles and other gear - just do what Lance and co. did which was stick them in a coke can and crush them up and throw them away. All the while the worlds media is surrounding the buses.

NFL players definitely dope during the season. Injury recovery and muscle recovery is a huge reason for doping and they need that in season.

I don't agree that it's so hard for football clubs to keep doping quiet. They manage to do it in other sports, with bigger teams and under more difficult circumstances. And even when it does come out in football it doesn't cause much of a stir anyway.

But in American football the teams don't run a doping programs. It would be impossible to do so given the amount of personnel involved, the cost, choosing what players get it and don't, the changeover between teams so many low level NFL players have.

However, what happens here is that teams turn a blind eye to it as such. If you get caught, it's the players wage that will be suspended for the term of your suspension and it's the player that pays the fine. The league itself doesn't turn a blind eye to it as such - for example quite a few of last years Superbowl winning team were suspended for PED's at one stage or another. But there's an accepted thing that players have to do what they have to do in the offseason to get in the shape required by teams. It's unfortunate but with the money involved people will do anything to make it onto a roster. Only possible way you'll see it better policed is bigger bans - but it's already far stricter than MLB and hockey. If a player was caught using steroids during training camp or some other off-season workout, they were suspended for 30 days for a first-time offense (more than likely 3-4 games). If you tested positive twice then you're out for the season.

Personally if it is being done by sides, it's much closer to being like the American Football setup than being like the cycling doping programme. Players would do so on an individual basis going to someone like a Conconi or a Ferrari that would create drugs based on their blood to get the best out of the player. But they would have to do it on their own. Which is what I think Stam, Davids and De Boer did at the time - they blamed the doctors at KNVB but if they were the problem, then why didn't Cocu or others who took supplements off the Dutch team doctors not fail when they were tested?

Or were you saying that the team doctor would give the players what they thought were'vitamins' that were in fact PED's?

Sheepy99

Pro. F wrote: »

(This also comes from the Atletico v Real thread)


They have done. Have you heard about the players and staff who blew the whistle on the Dutch teams from the 70s? Do you hear that getting mentioned much whenever they are talked about on TV, or do the media rather just focus on the style of football? Are you aware that Juventus were found guilty of doping during the 90s? That all started when Zdenek Zemen, the Roma manager, made claims and then state prosecutors followed them up. Do you know that Carlos Queiroz was banned for six months for interfering with doping testers' work?



Dortmund have played with the same crazy intensity for a good few seasons, not just one.



Barcelona's style changed as soon as Pep left. Regardless of what you think about the likelihood of them doping, putting their drop in success down to other teams figuring them out misses the point that they changed style before that happened.

During the years of their domination their first eleven players were used far more than most teams. And together with the Spanish international team the likes of Xavi and Iniesta played an unreal amount of football. Add that to the fact that they played at such an insanely high intensity and the fact that there are direct links between the club and coach and doping in the past and it is naive to not at least suspect them of doping.

Not saying it isn't possible I just don't want to be so quick to jump to conclusions.
Like I said i'm not Barca's biggest fan
As regards the dutch doping from the 70s as well as 90s Juve and Queiroz, have you any links to stories about it? Would definitely make for a good read. Won't deny that, imo mainstream media are well able to sweep things under the rug

Ulysses Gaze

Here's a quote from Matias Almeyda about his time at Parma. Remember the infamous video of Fabio Cannavaro hooked up to a drip?

“At Parma we were given an IV [intravenous] drip before games," wrote Almeyda. "They said it was a mixture of vitamins but before entering the field I was able to jump up as high as the ceiling." “Players do not ask questions, but then in the following years there are cases of former players dying from heart problems, suffering from muscular issues and more. I think it is the consequence of the things that have been given to them."

http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...s-Almeyda.html

Here's the story on the Juve trial which saw Riccardo Agricola, their senior medic, get sent to jail for 22 months:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-drug-scandal-that-blackens-the-name-of-juves-team-of-the-nineties-6156776.html

Quote from the article

When investigators raided the club they found 281 different types of drug. Few, if any of them were banned by the International Olympic Committee and no EPO was found. But the sheer quantity of pharmaceuticals told the magistrates that something was amiss. As Gianmartino Benzi, medical adviser to Guariniello, put it, "the club was equipped like a small hospital".

Pro. F

Sheepy99 wrote: »

Not saying it isn't possible I just don't want to be so quick to jump to conclusions.
Like I said i'm not Barca's biggest fan
As regards the dutch doping from the 70s as well as 90s Juve and Queiroz, have you any links to stories about it? Would definitely make for a good read. Won't deny that, imo mainstream media are well able to sweep things under the rug

http://thelongballtactic.wordpress.com/tag/epo/

and

http://www.4dfoot.com/2013/02/09/doping-in-football-fifty-years-of-evidence/

are decent reads with lots of links in each.

Pro. F

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

It wasn't all that hard - if you've the right doctor giving you the right timeline of when to take EPO. Tyler Hamilton said how they'd take maybe 400-500 units of EPO each night rather than 2000 units every 3-4 days so that they wouldn't be 'glowing' (show up on a test as over the limit).

Then they'd use little red eggs (testosterone) and other patches that looked like plasters with a gel center to give them a kick in race too without showing up. But with all the travelling it was so easy - employ a man whose job it is to go ahead each day with all the doping gear on a motorbike and clear the border. And to get rid of the needles and other gear - just do what Lance and co. did which was stick them in a coke can and crush them up and throw them away. All the while the worlds media is surrounding the buses.

You brought the Festina case up, pointing out how it was the start of systematic doping coming to light. How did the Festina team get caught doping? By a customs check at an international border for one of their soigneurs at the start of a tour and then follow up checks of team vehicles and hotel rooms. I rest my case.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

But in American football the teams don't run a doping programs. It would be impossible to do so given the amount of personnel involved, the cost, choosing what players get it and don't, the changeover between teams so many low level NFL players have.

However, what happens here is that teams turn a blind eye to it as such. If you get caught, it's the players wage that will be suspended for the term of your suspension and it's the player that pays the fine. The league itself doesn't turn a blind eye to it as such - for example quite a few of last years Superbowl winning team were suspended for PED's at one stage or another. But there's an accepted thing that players have to do what they have to do in the offseason to get in the shape required by teams. It's unfortunate but with the money involved people will do anything to make it onto a roster. Only possible way you'll see it better policed is bigger bans - but it's already far stricter than MLB and hockey. If a player was caught using steroids during training camp or some other off-season workout, they were suspended for 30 days for a first-time offense (more than likely 3-4 games). If you tested positive twice then you're out for the season.

You started off saying that NFL players don't dope in season. Now you're saying that the teams don't run doping programs. I don't find either claim convincing.

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Personally if it is being done by sides, it's much closer to being like the American Football setup than being like the cycling doping programme. Players would do so on an individual basis going to someone like a Conconi or a Ferrari that would create drugs based on their blood to get the best out of the player. But they would have to do it on their own. Which is what I think Stam, Davids and De Boer did at the time - they blamed the doctors at KNVB but if they were the problem, then why didn't Cocu or others who took supplements off the Dutch team doctors not fail when they were tested?

Or were you saying that the team doctor would give the players what they thought were'vitamins' that were in fact PED's?

I'm saying that there has been copious evidence of systematic doping going back decades and that it is clear that plenty of players were aware of it. I'm sure there have been some players who have been tricked into it as well and I'm also sure there is individual doping that goes on.

The reasons some players might fail a test and others not when they are all in the same doping program are fairly obvious. Not all tests would be carried out at the same time; different bodies can metabolise the drugs at different rates, or have other masking issues going on in their system; individual players might have been on different cycles or proscriptions while being part of the same systematic program; and plenty of other possible causes I'm sure we could think of.

Giruilla

With the World Cup upon us, one thing I'm looking forward to keeping an eye out for is which teams actually get bolloxed by the 80th minute in the extreme heat, and which teams are still running around like its the first 10 minutes.

KingJamsie

Robben is pretty fast eh?

Frankie Lee

Giruilla wrote: »

With the World Cup upon us, one thing I'm looking forward to keeping an eye out for is which teams actually get bolloxed by the 80th minute in the extreme heat, and which teams are still running around like its the first 10 minutes.

The English players struggled greatly with cramp against Italy but most of that was down to the control Italy had on the game.

Giruilla

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/21/sports/worldcup/no-doping-at-the-world-cup-thats-what-fifa-says.html?emc=edit_tnt_20140620&nlid=60818045&tntemail0=y&_r=0

She's clearly wrong on one big issue -

Alonso is a Spanish midfielder not a defender

Matt_Trakker

People wonder why Arjen Robben is still so fast.

the answer is Dr Hans-Wilhelm Muller Wohlfahrt.
Perfectly legal the stuff he does at Bayern Munich, if he worked in cycling he'd have been hung out to dry a long, long time ago.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2013/01/18/3673607/football-must-follow-lance-armstrong-and-admit-it-has-a

http://fussballdoping.derwesten-recherche.org/en/2013/05/muller-wohlfahrt-how-does-he-work/

Giruilla

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

People wonder why Arjen Robben is still so fast.

'still so fast' or 'faster' than when he was at chelsea 10 years ago..

kryogen

He conserves his energy pretty well.

Giruilla

Another decent article by Paul Kimmage:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/inherent-decency-may-be-the-most-effective-masking-agent-of-them-all-30409273.html

thought of Richie's comments quite a lot last week when live pictures of a doctor I hadn't seen since my last year as a pro cyclist in 1989, were zoomed into my living room from the World Cup in Brazil

Still pussyfooting around though... why not mention who the doctor was#? Which team?

He refers to Richie's comments, yet fails to mention that in the next sentence Richie admits to actually being doped at Millwall!

Giruilla

Phew! We can keep the illusion up for another 4 years now

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/07/fifa-drug-tests-negative-world-cup

weisses

KingJamsie wrote: »

Robben is pretty fast eh?

He was always fast

Difference now he doesn't get Injured

GavRedKing

Giruilla wrote: »

Phew! We can keep the illusion up for another 4 years now

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/07/fifa-drug-tests-negative-world-cup

From the article :

Even on Monday Michel D’Hooghe, the chairman of Fifa’s Medical Committee, said he did not think the use of performance enhancing drugs was widespread in the game.

“I will never say there is no doping in football but I say there is no doping culture in football,” D’Hooghe said.

Hhhmmmm :pac:

Dont be at yourself

weisses wrote: »

He was always fast

Difference now he doesn't get Injured

Always fast, but he's set the record for fastest ever recorded sprint speed by a footballer against Spain, in the heat of Brazil. In the 80th minute.

Richard Hillman

Lets not forget who his club manager is either.

Giruilla

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Always fast, but he's set the record for fastest ever recorded sprint speed by a footballer against Spain, in the heat of Brazil. In the 80th minute.

Lol.. was that the time it was recorded?! Didn't know that..

Must have been the atmosphere of the crowd and intensity of the moment that pushed him along.

paulbok

Can't believe some medical professionals would even suggest this;

Giving Neymar pain killers so that he could play in the final if Brazil get there.

From La Marca

NIMAN

Any link for that Robben sprint story? Would be very interesting.

I have been saying to some friends recently that I genuinely think Robben must be on something. OK so its grand if you find a good chiropractor etc and get your injuries sorted out, but the amount of running and his fitness levels form him over the last few seasons is something out of the ordinary imho. I think he's doping for sure, but then I think football is filthy with drugs and a blind eye is being turned to it for the sake of image, marketing and money.

Funny how the last player caught at a WC was Maradona, who wouldn't have been seen as FIFAs golden boy and a bit of a renegade. FIFA wanted to put him in his place I think, hence him being caught.

Dont be at yourself

NIMAN wrote: »

Any link for that Robben sprint story? Would be very interesting.

http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-world-cup/story/1888364/arjen-robben-of-netherlands-becomes-worlds-fastest-player

Robben also smashed his previous record, attained in Bayern Munich colours, of 30.7km/h. Given the speeds recorded by Robben in his scoring of the fifth goal, he would have run the 100m in 10.28 seconds. He did this with the ball under control and after 80 minutes of play.

Also 7km/h faster than his previous best, and a clear 1km/h faster than the next fastest (Walcott).

If that doesn't raise eyebrows, I don't know what does.

Richard Hillman

NIMAN wrote: »

Any link for that Robben sprint story? Would be very interesting.

I have been saying to some friends recently that I genuinely think Robben must be on something. OK so its grand if you find a good chiropractor etc and get your injuries sorted out, but the amount of running and his fitness levels form him over the last few seasons is something out of the ordinary imho. I think he's doping for sure, but then I think football is filthy with drugs and a blind eye is being turned to it for the sake of image, marketing and money.

Funny how the last player caught at a WC was Maradona, who wouldn't have been seen as FIFAs golden boy and a bit of a renegade. FIFA wanted to put him in his place I think, hence him being caught.

I wouldnt be too surprised it they had him caught before at a WC but swept it under the carpet. Imagine the ****storm they would have to face if he failed after the 86 final.

fryup

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

People wonder why Arjen Robben is still so fast.

not that he's fast, its his energy levels that are amazing even in extra time the other night he still sprinting about hmmmmmm

statesaver

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I wouldnt be too surprised it they had him caught before at a WC but swept it under the carpet. Imagine the ****storm they would have to face if he failed after the 86 final.

Another conspiracy theory.
:cool:

You'd wanna start producing proof or just fúck off. Any time i come to the soccer forum i read unsubstantiated claims from posters like you.
More proof less speculation please.

Hank Scorpio

It's such a weird coincidence since 2012 when the doping allegations came out against that doctor in Spain who was employed by Barca and got in trouble in cycling how the national team and Barcelona's dominance stopped, and the case was thrown away in a high court ruling, I guess we`ll never know

J. Marston

nuxxx wrote: »

It's such a weird coincidence since 2012 when the doping allegations came out against that doctor in Spain who was employed by Barca and got in trouble in cycling how the national team and Barcelona's dominance stopped, and the case was thrown away in a high court ruling, I guess we`ll never know

Or they all got a bit older and the motivation dropped possibly?

Fergie had an interesting quote on great teams: "The cycle of a successful team lasts maybe four years, and then some change is needed."

It isn't a strict rule but Barca seemed to adhere to that, maybe going a little over it.

Hank Scorpio

J. Marston wrote: »

Or they all got a bit older and the motivation dropped possibly?

Fergie had an interesting quote on great teams: "The cycle of a successful team lasts maybe four years, and then some change is needed."

It isn't a strict rule but Barca seemed to adhere to that, maybe going a little over it.

Definitely could be the true, but I think there's a just case for suspicions

Giruilla

The latest Wada Testing Figures revealed that only 2.38 per cent of doping controls in 2013 came in the form of blood testing and Wada has set a minimum of 10%.

Governing bodies are responsible for testing in their own jurisdictions, and while a total of 28,002 dope tests were administered in 2013, only 667 blood tests are counted among that number. Wada does not conduct tests and football has only been a signatory of the Wada code since 2006 - the last Olympic sport to sign up.


The Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) did more blood tests on footballers than any organisation in 2013 with 232 in-competition blood tests out of a total of 2896 doping tests conducted in total - just over 8%. Organisations in top football countries like Spain, the Netherlands and Brazil, meanwhile, failed to conduct any.

http://www.goal.com/en-ke/news/4528/internationals/2014/07/24/4981615/football-should-quadruple-blood-testing-in-doping-fight-wada

EPO/HGH free-for-all.

Mr_A

Staggering that major leagues, and especially one as rich as La Liga simply don't (or at least didn't until recently) do blood testing. Apart from EPO and HGH blood transfusions can be performed with impunity as well. And a mere 135 samples checked for HGH.

It'll be years before there's any prospect of a bio passport in one of the world's richest sports- drugs based cheating simply isn't taken seriously.

ManofStraw

Pretty interesting article from Miguel Delaney, full article here

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/champions-league-final--the-dirty-history-of-the-european-cup-091857676.html

The governing body didn’t have proper doping regulations at the time, either. Feyenoord 1970 and Ajax 1970-73 used amphetamines while reports have implicated the West Germany 1974 team, which involved so many of the Bayern Munich European champions from 1973-76. In the Dutch case, a series of players including Johnny Rep have admitted it. At Ajax, the thinking was that the industrious players would use amphetamines so as to run more, but the creative players would be spared it so they could properly think.

Although amphetamines were not at the time banned in European competition, it is telling some of these players did not take them during the World Cup because of more stringent doping controls. This was essentially a primitive form of staying ahead of the testers, in the same way many sports people in the early 90s used EPO before it was banned.

uventus were of course brought to court regarding such allegations when EPO was banned in the late 90s. Although that case ended in the most classic legal fudge, with the statute of limitations running out, the fact the club’s own records showed some players had hematocrit values consistent with EPO usage has never been satisfactorily explained. Expert Dr Giuseppe D’Onofrio argued the only possibly explanation was blood doping: “there’s no other way”. Dick Pound, the former head of Wada, demanded Juve’s 1996 title be revoked.

It was not the only time the club have been caught up in such allegations. In the early 1980s, shortly before they won the 1985 European Cup, Giovanni Trapattoni had to deny their players had used the muscle-strengthening drug carnitine.

EuropeanSon

I'd be shocked if doping weren't rampant in top level football given the very lax controls and huge money at stake.

Panorama had a journo on his own microdose EPO and he noticed benefits yet under the "biological passport" he wouldn't have gotten caught. Is this system even used in Football? 92 league clubs in England, 20 players apiece (for simplicity) is almost 2,000 blood tests to be carried out. I find that hard to believe.