Cancelled car purchase

Anan1

Nozebleed wrote: »

if it were me. i would go down and ask for 900 back. if they refuse,tell them you are going to make a protest sign and stand outside the premises until they do the right thing.

And you'd likely get nothing but tired. As the old saying goes, you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Anan1

Bruce7 wrote: »

As far as I can see, these are the only reasons the salesperson could have for keeping someone's deposit.

1. Because they can
2. Because they are annoyed that their sale fell through and want to punish the prospective buyer.
3. Because they think the prospective buyer will never be back.
4. To compensate them for costs that they incurred and lost revenues.

In my view, 4 is the only valid reason, and this certainly was not the case here.

I suspect that this outlook is responsible for your not getting your money back.

Bruce7

Anan1 wrote: »

I suspect that this outlook is responsible for your not getting your money back.

What are you saying? That I had the wrong attitude? I politely informed the guy that I wasn't going to be able to go through with it, and told him why. He was clearly annoyed and couldn't get off the phone quick enough. I asked about the deposit, he said it was non-refundable in full, and pretty much hung up.

Valetta

Anan1 wrote: »

I suspect that this outlook is responsible for your not getting your money back.

I don't understand this. Seems a logically set out post outlining the OP's thinking without being aggressive or emotional.

What kind of outlook would make you think they would get their deposit back?

MidlandsM

Bruce7 wrote: »

I am just having to postpone the purchase for a while, but when I come to make it, I won't be going to the same dealer.

ok, sh!t happens ....... sorry to here he's shafting you for the 1k all the same.

poor form indeed.

renofan

Bruce7 wrote: »

What are you saying? That I had the wrong attitude? I politely informed the guy that I wasn't going to be able to go through with it, and told him why. He was clearly annoyed and couldn't get off the phone quick enough. I asked about the deposit, he said it was non-refundable in full, and pretty much hung up.

TBH I think you should have gone down to the garage in person and not have done it over the phone. Probably would have had a better outcome.

Henry Ford III

Bruce7 wrote: »

...I politely informed the guy that I wasn't going to be able to go through with it, and told him why...

If it wasn't financial (you've already said it wasn't) what other reason could there be?

dorkacle

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If it wasn't financial (you've already said it wasn't) what other reason could there be?

Suddenly remembered he can't drive?

Anan1

Bruce7 wrote: »

What are you saying? That I had the wrong attitude? I politely informed the guy that I wasn't going to be able to go through with it, and told him why. He was clearly annoyed and couldn't get off the phone quick enough. I asked about the deposit, he said it was non-refundable in full, and pretty much hung up.

Yes.

Valetta wrote: »

I don't understand this. Seems a logically set out post outlining the OP's thinking without being aggressive or emotional.

I disagree. Put simply, the OP's attitude is that only a pr1ck would keep the deposit. Whether or not that's the truth, it was never going to bring out the best in the salesman.

Valetta wrote: »

What kind of outlook would make you think they would get their deposit back?

I'd start with an apology and a short appreciation of the courtesy and professionalism with which i'd been treated so far. I'd then give a reason for backing out which would elicit belief and sympathy. I'd make it clear that I would completely understand if the garage chose to keep the deposit, but would add that if they could somehow see their way to returning it then i'd spend the rest of my life telling people how decent they were. I've been on both sides of this fence, and this is how it works. Salesman gets that warm fuzzy feeling, OP gets the deposit back.

dar83

Changed his mind I guess. From the description given it sounds as if the magical mystery reason given to the garage was flakey at best. Hence the sales person being annoyed and not even entertaining the deposit returning conversation.

giant_midget

@bruce7 - The only way i can see you getting out of this is if the dealer has any banger type €1000 ish cars in his garage, Im gonna guess he doesn't as your name is Bruce and you live in south Dublin. :pac: ...but seriously maybe he has something real cheap youn could buy and then sell it on yourself to make SOME money on the loss of €1000

Henry Ford III

dar83 wrote: »

Changed his mind I guess. From the description given it sounds as if the magical mystery reason given to the garage was flakey at best. Hence the sales person being annoyed and not even entertaining the deposit returning conversation.

If that's the case leaving €1000 of a non refundable deposit (committing to buy the car) wasn't the best idea I'd suggest.

Big Nasty

OP, I guess you started this thread looking for sympathetic answers. Unfortunately if you are not going to give the full story replies are not going to be sympathetic. Of course you are entitled to your privacy but if you're not prepared to tell the full story then you shouldn't have started the thread.

Anan1

Personally, I don't see the relevance of the OP's reason for pulling out of the deal. All that matters here is what he told the sales person, and how he said it.

Big Nasty

Anan1 wrote: »

Personally, I don't see the relevance of the OP's reason for pulling out of the deal. All that matters here is what he told the sales person, and how he said it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the OP already stated that they told the salesman why they were pulling out. As that could be a multitude of reasons from a sick child to calling the salesman a w@nker it's entirely relevant IMO.

veetwin

I done a deal with a main (Mazda) dealer in South Dublin years ago on a used car. I paid £20 deposit on and £8k car as it was all I had on me at the time. I went off to arrange finance and in the meantime saw a private sale (same model) which was better value and bought that instead. I rang the dealer back to cancel the sale apologizing and telling him to keep the deposit as I had wasted his time and the car was off the market several days.

The salesman was sound and insisted on giving me back the £20. I went back to the dealer several times to service the car I had bought privately because of the goodwill gesture.

Keeping a €1000 deposit is just plain wrong. He is not out of pocket by that much.

Bruce7

MCMLXXV wrote: »

OP, I guess you started this thread looking for sympathetic answers. Unfortunately if you are not going to give the full story replies are not going to be sympathetic. Of course you are entitled to your privacy but if you're not prepared to tell the full story then you shouldn't have started the thread.

No, the point of this thread was to discuss business practices and ethics in the motor trade.

My points are that

1. Just because you can do something because a contract allows you to doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

2. It is better business to do the right thing by your customers and operate with the long term in mind than to snatch at whatever quick profits can be made today.

In my experience, the motor trade in Ireland operates in the exact opposite way, and this is just the latest example of it for me. It is also in trouble, with dealers closing left, right, and centre. Maybe there is a connection?

This is probably an uncomfortable subject for the car dealers who are posting on the thread, hence the attempts to derail the thread and make it all about my reasons for pulling out of the deal.

dar83

Only one car dealer that I remember has posted in the thread so far and he actually agreed with you.

The rest of us just dislike ambiguous mystery threads, where the main point of them is the one thing shrowded in the biggest mystery cloud.

Guy:Incognito

bobin fudge wrote: »

Im not sure if this is entirely relevant or not...

Last week I bought a phone from a phone provider, I took the phone back the next day as it was rubbish and asked if I could get my money back and buy another in the store. the assistant refused on the basis that the box was already open. I explained politely I would buy another phone in the shop a more expensive one and that I had been a customer for years- still refused and made it clear he was not backing down.
I made one final attemtp and asked if he could talk to the manager in charge with what I was proposing, he did and the manager said no problem at all so I got my money back and bought another phone of them.

My point is maybe the person refusing the deposit is instructed not to give back deposits under any circumstances or has no power to make the decision, ask to speak to a manager be 100% honest and humble and see what happens

See the problem with this that most peopel never take in to account is , what if when you were buying the phone in the first place they handed you and already open one and said that someone had it for a day and brought it back. Would you have been happy to take it at full price?

The OP also never addressed the point of being wrong about just being able to return goods to a shop for a refund.

Bruce7

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

See the problem with this that most peopel never take in to account is , what if when you were buying the phone in the first place they handed you and already open one and said that someone had it for a day and brought it back. Would you have been happy to take it at full price?

The OP also never addressed the point of being wrong about just being able to return goods to a shop for a refund.

You missed my point. Someone said I had no legal or moral entitlement to getting my deposit back. I agreed that I have no legal entitlement to getting it back, but I disagreed that I have no moral entitlement to it and gave some examples of where it is acceptable for people to pull out of an intended purchase. This is sufficient to prove that there isn't a universal moral principle that obliges people to complete all transactions.

That some shops give full refunds, some give credit notes, and some allow full or part exchange isn't the point.

Guy:Incognito

Bruce7 wrote: »

That some shops give full refunds, some give credit notes, and some allow full or part exchange isn't the point.

Some shops decide off their own back to offer those. Non eof them have any legal obligation to even discuss the matter with you. That was what you were corrected on.

Why did you sign an agreement that it was non refundible and leave a €1000 deposit if you were going to kick up a fuss that they wouldnt refund it?Surely the moral thing is for both sides to honour a contract, no?

Anan1

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the OP already stated that they told the salesman why they were pulling out. As that could be a multitude of reasons from a sick child to calling the salesman a w@nker it's entirely relevant IMO.

The real reason doesn't matter, the reason they gave the salesman does.

Bruce7 wrote: »

No, the point of this thread was to discuss business practices and ethics in the motor trade.

My points are that

1. Just because you can do something because a contract allows you to doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

2. It is better business to do the right thing by your customers and operate with the long term in mind than to snatch at whatever quick profits can be made today.

In my experience, the motor trade in Ireland operates in the exact opposite way, and this is just the latest example of it for me. It is also in trouble, with dealers closing left, right, and centre. Maybe there is a connection?

This is probably an uncomfortable subject for the car dealers who are posting on the thread, hence the attempts to derail the thread and make it all about my reasons for pulling out of the deal.

1.) This could have happened in any business. I'm sure it does, every day.

2.) In simple business terms, your goodwill is not worth €1000 or anything like it.

3.) You had no entitlement, legal or moral, to have a non-refundable deposit refunded.

4.) I think you could probably have got your money back, had you handled things differently.

thecomedian

Another reason could be, the salesman/owner sells a car on Saturday for a lot of money. (Maybe he needed the sake badly). This makes him very happy for the weekend. Comes into work Monday, gets a call to cancel the sale. I guess he wouldn't be in the best of form after that.

discombobulate

Just go down to the garage and talk to them and see if there is anything they will do in person. Talk to management etc. You might get the deposit back, you might get credit for the future who know's but its a lot better an idea than talking about the morals of someone on the phone saying no refund without at least attempting.

Anan1

discombobulate wrote: »

Just go down to the garage and talk to them and see if there is anything they will do in person. Talk to management etc. You might get the deposit back, you might get credit for the future who know's but its a lot better an idea than talking about the morals of someone on the phone saying no refund without at least attempting.

I think this is well worth a try, but he needs to completely overhaul his approach first. This is his last chance.

discombobulate

Anan1 wrote: »

I think this is well worth a try, but he needs to completely overhaul his approach first. This is his last chance.

I'd be nearly getting down on my knee's and please sir thank you very much siring my ass off. My attitude would probably change if that didn't work but you 'd presume any decent people would work something out with him if he takes the proper approach.

fasttalkerchat

Bruce7 wrote: »

The point of a deposit is to compensate the seller for any losses incurred due to my not completing the contract. In this case, due to the very short amount of time involved, the amount of compensation far outweighs any potential losses.

There is a difference between a moral right and a legal right.

There's a difference between good business and bad business.

There's a difference between the long term and the short term.

The dealer has acted shabbily and dishonourably. That's all I am saying.

Probably that 1k went straight into someone's back pocket. I find it hard to believe a dealer would have this policy.

Anan1

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Probably that 1k went straight into someone's back pocket. I find it hard to believe a dealer would have this policy.

That's a very serious and completely unfounded accusation.

Yawns

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Probably that 1k went straight into someone's back pocket. I find it hard to believe a dealer would have this policy.

So buyer and dealer sign a contract stating how much of a deposit is paid and you think the dealer pocketed it and now won't give it back for this reason.

Seriously?

_Kaiser_

I've read every post and this thread is pointless IMO without knowing

1. Why the OP pulled out of the deal
2. What the response was from the seller/dealer

We're going around in circles otherwise