Letting agency withholding deposit

Uncle Mungo

Hi,

This is a bit of a long story but I'm hoping someone can provide some advice.

My girlfriend & I are renting an apartment in Dublin. I moved in with her 12 months ago, taking over half of the lease from a vacating tenant. The lease then expired in May.

The letting agent visited us in May to carry out an inspection with a view to us extending the lease. The rent had been €1,000 per month (which was below market value due to connections the vacating tenant had with the owner). The agent was very impressed with the condition of the apartment and said she would convey this to the landlord. She also remarked on several issues which would need to be addressed (by them) such as the shower not working properly, repainting bathroom walls/ceiling and fixing the faulty wiring in the apartment.

She eventually came back to us and said that due to the pristine condition we were keeping the apartment, the landlord would be happy with the rent only increasing to €1,100. As this still represented very good value, we said we would be happy with this.

We then received the lease extension a month or so later, which showed the rent still at €1,000 p/m, along with a demand to pay the management fees of a further €1,000 (which the landlord had agreed to pay).

We informed them that this was not what we had agreed.

Another month later, we received another lease extension, still showing the rent at €1,000 and with a demand for €500 in relation to the management fees.

Again, still incorrect, so we did not sign the extension (and never have). During this time we had still been paying €1,000 (and still are) as we had not received the correct lease or payment documentation.

In late November, we received an email from them stating that we were in arrears on our rent and would need to pay the difference of €100 per month.

I replied on December 5th, saying that we had never (and still haven't) received the correct lease or banking amendment forms, nor had any of the issues the agent raised on her visit been addressed. I received no reply to that mail.

We have now decided to move out of the apartment as my other half is expecting and it would not be suitable when the baby comes. We informed the agent of our intention to vacate (we actually had to hound them to get them to acknowledge the fact that we were leaving).

The problem arises in that we believe they are going to mess us around with our €1,000 deposit.

We did verbally agree to the rent increase, however as I've said already, we did not receive the correct lease extension, amended banking forms or have any of the issues with place fixed, not to mention the wholly unprofessional attitude of the letting agency.

We've already paid a deposit on our new place, and taking a hit of €1,000 would be fairly painful (especially with a baby on the way).

I'm just wondering if anyone can offer any advice, or if we have a leg to stand on. Can the agency withhold our deposit in this instance?

Cheers

D3PO

verbal contract is legally enforcable. if you agreed to pay more and havent then you are in arrears and they are absolutly entitled to deduct the arrears from the deposit.

Uncle Mungo

If a landlord intends increasing the rent, surely they must inform you in writing of any increase?

Nino Brown

You should call threshold for advice, http://www.threshold.ie/advice/.

Ray Palmer

So they haven't withheld anything yet. You agreed and extra €100 a month and never paid it. Not really seeing why this is complicated. let them deduced the money you didn't pay. The management fee was never yours to pay.

StillWaters

Uncle Mungo wrote: »

If a landlord intends increasing the rent, surely they must inform you in writing of any increase?

But yours wasn't an increase in rent. It was a new tenancy with new terms agreed by both parties, and that was €1100 pm. Another one here who thinks the arrears will be deducted from your deposit.

Uncle Mungo

Thanks for all your responses. We never had an issue with paying the new agreement. We were to receive the lease renewal to sign after agreeing verbally on the extra €100 per month but never did. We received two leases in the post which were incorrect. After emailing them on this, the correct form was never sent out.

xper

It is true that, as a general legal principle, verbal contracts can be enforced. Of course, by their nature, it can be difficult for an arbitrator to make a determination if both parties disagree on the nature or existence of such a contract agreement.

On the other hand, the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 is quite clear (relevant section) that a change in rent amount must be notified in writing to the tenant 28 days before it comes into effect. Given that clear directive, I don't think, imo, that a verbal agreement would be given much weight if the existence of a rent increase was disputed.

You appear to be in a Part 4 Tenancy. This would have come into effect six months after your girlfriend, as one of the original tenants (I am assuming she was from your description of the situation), took up residence, and has continued after the original fixed term lease expired. The PRTB states (PDF) that a tenancy, and any Part 4 rights that arise out of it, continues as long as at least one of the original tenants has been resident throughout. So the fact that you moved in later, replacing another original tenant, is pretty irrelevant, you are not in a new tenancy.

The offered renewal leases are entirely optional for you. You can, entirely at your own discretion, continue your tenancy following the expiration of the fixed term lease under Part 4 rights. You have effectively done so if you did not sign any of the offered renewal leases (and, personally, I would never sign a lease that specified payments other than a regular periodic fixed amount). If you did not sign them, they will have little or no bearing in any dispute resolution.


Ok so, first, a disclaimer - I am just a schmuck on the interwebs like everyone else here so, while I think I have given an accurate assessment of the relevant regulations pertaining to your situation, I could be wrong. But it would seem to me that if some or all of your deposit is withheld for non payment of rent, you would have a strong case to make a complaint to the PRTB. You might consider, however, that even if you were successful in your complaint, you would probably not see the money for quite some time so it is not going to help you out with your move to a new home.


And you might also consider the morality of the situation. On the one hand, you readily state that you did agree to a revised monthly rent of 1100 back in May. So, should you not pay up regardless of the possibility of getting away with it? On the other hand, this is yet another case of a letting agent acting the eejit and doing a disservice to both the tenant and, perhaps more pertinently, the landlord who is paying them for their services. All they had to do to avoid this whole mess, was send a registered letter back in May giving proper notification the rent increase. So do you try and teach them a lesson? Would that be your real motive? That's all up to you.

djimi

As xper has said, the law is quite clear on this. To quote Citizens Information:

Your landlord has the right to review the rent annually. However your landlord must give you at least 28 days notice (in writing) before increasing the rent.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

The rent increase can only legally take effect if either a futher fixed term lease is signed with the increased rent included, or the landlord notifies the tenant of the increase in rent in writing. As neither of these scenarios occured, the increase in rent is invalid, and the OP is quite entitled to continue paying the rent as agreed in the terms of the original fixed term lease.

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

As xper has said, the law is quite clear on this. To quote Citizens Information:



http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_increases.html

The rent increase can only legally take effect if either a futher fixed term lease is signed with the increased rent included, or the landlord notifies the tenant of the increase in rent in writing. As neither of these scenarios occured, the increase in rent is invalid, and the OP is quite entitled to continue paying the rent as agreed in the terms of the original fixed term lease.

Djimi and Xper you both need to reread the thread. This is not a rent increase. This is the agreed rent at the beginning of the tennancy.

whilst you are both correct about written notice of a rent increase as this isnt one the above isnt relevent.

djimi

D3PO wrote: »

Djimi and Xper you both need to reread the thread. This is not a rent increase. This is the agreed rent at the beginning of the tennancy.

whilst you are both correct about written notice of a rent increase as this isnt one the above isnt relevent.

Thats not my reading of it...

My girlfriend & I are renting an apartment in Dublin. I moved in with her 12 months ago, taking over half of the lease from a vacating tenant. The lease then expired in May.

The letting agent visited us in May to carry out an inspection with a view to us extending the lease. The rent had been €1,000 per month (which was below market value due to connections the vacating tenant had with the owner). The agent was very impressed with the condition of the apartment and said she would convey this to the landlord. She also remarked on several issues which would need to be addressed (by them) such as the shower not working properly, repainting bathroom walls/ceiling and fixing the faulty wiring in the apartment.

She eventually came back to us and said that due to the pristine condition we were keeping the apartment, the landlord would be happy with the rent only increasing to €1,100. As this still represented very good value, we said we would be happy with this.

The bolded part suggests to me that they had been paying €1000, and at the end of the fixed term lease the landlord wanted to increase the rent to €1100.

Am I misreading something?

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

Thats not my reading of it...



The bolded part suggests to me that they had been paying €1000, and at the end of the fixed term lease the landlord wanted to increase the rent to €1100.

Am I misreading something?

looks like I misread so.