Man Pays €60 Motor Tax Fine With 6,000 1c Coins

Caliden

vektarman wrote: »

But doesn't that leave the bike open to getting a ticket if it's caught parked on a public street without a disc displayed?

Well if it was ripped off while you were parked it can't be your fault surely...

Yawns

Caliden wrote: »

Well if it was ripped off while you were parked it can't be your fault surely...

That would be decided on appealing. It wouldn't stop from receiving a fine in the first place for non display. It depends on if the traffic warden has common sense I suppose.

seamus

All the time I rode a motorbike I never once had an issue with either parking or being stopped at a checkpoint without having the tax displayed. I just kept it in my jacket pocket in a little plastic sleeve for when it was needed.

The only hassle I had at a checkpoint was from a Garda who didn't understand why I had no insurance disc to show her (motorbikes don't have them).

Bruthal

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh and it wasn't the fault of the clerk behind the desk, so he was being a bully.

Id find it a pleasant form of bullying, being bullied into accepting 60 euro.

Odysseus

vektarman wrote: »

But doesn't that leave the bike open to getting a ticket if it's caught parked on a public street without a disc displayed?

It depends, yes in theory. I can see my bike from my office window when I'm in work. It is parked on a public road, there are offten warden giving out tickets and people getting clamped because it is very bad for parking here.



However, I have not as yet had any issues with it. I'm not even sure if the wardens check bikes I think not.

TBF a lot of people know very little about bikes, like the other poster here I too have been asked about why my insurance disk is not being displayed by cops at a checkpoint:rolleyes:

Madam_X

Bruthal wrote: »

Id find it a pleasant form of bullying, being bullied into accepting 60 euro.

Well... 6,000 1 cent coins.
No you wouldn't find it pleasant.

The doublethink on this thread is amazing.

olcod wrote: »

Superb, fair play to him. Have to cough up a 500 euro fine for non payment of a speeding ticket next week.........hmmmmmmm

Your choice to speed. Your choice to let it build up to €500. Why punish someone else for your wrongdoing?

Bruthal

Madam_X wrote: »

Well... 6,000 1 cent coins.
No you wouldn't find it pleasant.

The doublethink on this thread is amazing.

Well I would be €60 better off. As I said if they gave them to me.

But a clerk, taking money all day at a desk, is going to find being handed 6000 cent coins, bullying?

That bizarre thinking is more amazing imo.

I guess if someone handed you 1 million 1 cent coins for yourself, you would press charges for being assaulted.

RossFixxxed

It's made up anyway, but it isn't the fault of the poor guy behind the cash desk. Taking it out on him/her and making everyone else wait is a total dick move.

He should just appeal the damn thing like a grown adult. Unfair crap happens and you try to fix it, you don't throw a hissy fit and take it out on some poor person trying to do their job. What a sad case he must be if that's his 15 minutes.

seamus

Bruthal wrote: »

But a clerk, taking money all day at a desk, is going to find being handed 6000 cent coins, bullying?

It's giving grief to someone who has done nothing to deserve it. Bullying being a buzzword at the moment, but I believe the original comment was a general one about the abuse that customer-facing staff have to endure every day from people who quite rightly fit the bill of bullies.

Specifically in relation to this case, the only person who will remember this guy is the clerk who will tells stories about the complete gob****e who turned up one day with a bag of coins to pay for a fine. It's not like the person who issued the fine or the politicians in charge are ever going to hear of, or be affected by his actions.

That's why he's a bellend and not a legend.

Madam_X

Bruthal wrote: »

Well I would be €60 better off. As I said if they gave them to me.

But a clerk, taking money all day at a desk, is going to find being handed 6000 cent coins, bullying?

That bizarre thinking is more amazing imo.

I guess if someone handed you 1 million 1 cent coins for yourself, you would press charges for being assaulted.

Context here is motor tax office, not a personal gift so let's not lose the run of things. It's totally disingenuous to say 6,000 coins - the weight of it, the amount of space it would take up, the amount of time it would take to count it - is just the same as receiving any payment, and carrying out any money-counting procedure.
I say it's bullying because the man was punishing someone for something they didn't do, and trying to make things as difficult for them as possible. Surely that's harassment? The fact a few people here who are fans of abdication of personal responsibility think he's a legend (derp) and so on, indicates they acknowledge it's an extreme and unreasonable thing to do.

Anyone who pretends it's just a run-of-the-mill payment would be pissed off if some twat handed over 60 euro to them in 1 cent coins if they were working at a public cash desk. The faux "Huh? It's just a payment!" bullsh1t isn't fooling anyone.

RossFixxxed wrote: »

What a sad case he must be if that's his 15 minutes.

Even sadder are his admirers. The types who'd run up a massive phone bill and then get on to the company to attack them for "overcharging" no doubt.

Jester252

The Joe.ie 'article' was formed by infomation supplied to them from this bellend. I say it was refused by the motor tax office and from my understanding his local bank can also refuse it. So he'll now have to go to Dublin to exchange it. How the joke has turned

Bruthal

seamus wrote: »

It's giving grief to someone who has done nothing to deserve it. Bullying being a buzzword at the moment, but I believe the original comment was a general one about the abuse that customer-facing staff have to endure every day from people who quite rightly fit the bill of bullies.

Specifically in relation to this case, the only person who will remember this guy is the clerk who will tells stories about the complete gob****e who turned up one day with a bag of coins to pay for a fine. It's not like the person who issued the fine or the politicians in charge are ever going to hear of, or be affected by his actions.

That's why he's a bellend and not a legend.

He is a complete tool alright, I never indicated he was any legend.

If he simply handed the coins in without saying much, I dont see it as bullying. They either accept it as payment, or dont, which they likely dont have to with 6000 coins.

ejmaztec

I think the traffic warden must have been a little over zealous. The motor tax office in Tralee is next to the Kerry County Council building, with a shared car-park. I've never ever seen a traffic warden roaming around there, and it's a fair distance away from the town centre. The traffic warden must have been on a bloody-minded mission.

TouchingVirus

Madam_X wrote: »

Well... 6,000 1 cent coins.
No you wouldn't find it pleasant.

The doublethink on this thread is amazing.

Your choice to speed. Your choice to let it build up to €500. Why punish someone else for your wrongdoing?

Punishing. Bullying. Malicious. Harassment. You do have a habit of using fairly strong words don't you? Please stop, you're being overly emotive about the issue.

It's not bullying for starters. In no definition of bullying have I come across anything in the meaning you could apply to this situation. It's not intimidating, the person isn't using force or coercion, there's no abuse except that of the system and not the person.

Malicious involves malice. Malice is the intent to harm, injure or inflict suffering on another out of meanness or hostility. There is no malice in his actions towards the clerk.

Punishing? No, just no. The clerk doesn't even have to accept the money

Yawns

It's not bullying. It's just someone being a twat thinking he got one over 'da man!' but in reality just looks a like a twat. I'd have a more sympathetic ear if he had found the warden who issued the fine while he was in paying the tax and had a rant at him over it. Instead all he did was cause a delay in the local tax office for anyone needing to pay tax for their own cars. It would have taken some time to count it all if they did accept it.

Queues in the tax office are bloody long enough without a numpty adding to it for no valid reason.

SEPT 23 1989

The poor man in the tax office will have to take full paid sick leave after this

Madam_X

Grand so TouchingVirus. If you're working on a cash-desk and some muppet lands that on your desk (not that there would be room) you won't see it as malicious or taking anger out on you.

Sept 23 1989, you're very bitter towards the public sector - don't let it eat you up inside.

smash

28064212 wrote: »

Any charge can be appealed and over-turned. I never said otherwise. The simple fact is that non-display of your tax disc is an offence in itself, and you can be fined €60 for it. Whether the car is actually taxed or not is a separate consideration

Yes. But others are saying you can't appeal it etc. You can, and it will more than likely be over turned!

Bruthal

Madam_X wrote: »

Context here is motor tax office, not a personal gift so let's not lose the run of things. It's totally disingenuous to say 6,000 coins - the weight of it, the amount of space it would take up, the amount of time it would take to count it - is just the same as receiving any payment, and carrying out any money-counting procedure.

Still. I wouldnt put it in the bullying dept. 10 or 12kg of coins, and a clerk accepts and counts it without questions or consultation with other staff?

The whole story is bullshit id say

I say it's bullying because the man was punishing someone for something they didn't do, and trying to make things as difficult for them as possible. The fact a few people here who are fans of abdication of personal responsibility think he's a legend (derp) and so on, indicates they acknowledge it's an extreme and unreasonable thing to do.

I dont think he is any legend. I also dont think it is bullying. To not think it is bullying does not mean I think he is a legend. A complete tool as I said already.

Anyone who pretends it's just a run-of-the-mill payment would be pissed off if some twat handed over 60 euro to them in 1 cent coins. The faux "Huh? It's just a payment!" bullsh1t isn't fooling anyone.

Would you automatically just take the big bag of coins and start counting it for 2 hours? Or check with others in the office about this bizarre payment method?

Again, a made up story most likely. But if handing a payment clerk 6000 coins has the same effect on them as true bullying, then they have problems.

Crimson King

The fact he had to go to a bank to get 6000 coins and then wait for them to ensure the coins were correct. Carry them to his car, carry them to the desk paying his fine and then wait again whilst the coins were counted I think his 'satisfaction' must surely have been not worth it. Considering it takes minutes online to pay for car tax (unless he went over 6 months without taxing his car). It's one of those stories when you hear it its a 'yeah give it to the man' reactions. Only at first though.

TouchingVirus

Madam_X wrote: »

Grand so TouchingVirus. If you're working on a cash-desk and some muppet lands that on your desk (not that there would be room) you won't see it as malicious or taking anger out on you.

Does the person with the money intend on hurting me? No, so it's not malicious.

Would I see them as taking out their anger on me? No, not unless they came in shouting and threw the coins on the table while fúcking me off from a height.

Would I see them as a bit of a knob? Probably.

Would I let people up the chain know this person was so aggrieved he brought it in in 1c coins to be a bit of a dick? Yes, I would.

If I knew I wasn't obliged to accept it would I refuse it? Depends on my mood and how busy the office was at the time.

Would I consider it bullying, hardship, harassment, malice, a punishment or any of the other stuff you've described it as? No.

Yawns

Don't think anyone is saying you can't appeal it, just it'd be hard to justify not displaying a tax disc in theory. It would need to be a guard or judge on a good day in a good mood. Technically you've either displayed it or not. No in between unless you have half a a tax disc displayed

28064212

smash wrote: »

Yes. But others are saying you can't appeal it etc. You can, and it will more than likely be over turned!

Who said you can't appeal it? Why not quote them?

And the likelihood of it being over-turned is entirely dependent on the individual facts of the case.

TouchingVirus

smash wrote: »

Yes. But others are saying you can't appeal it etc. You can, and it will more than likely be over turned!

You can appeal all sorts of fines. I remember a few years back I was fined for littering by a county council. I viewed the CCTV at felt incredibly hard done by, despite littering by the letter of the law. I appealed it and had the fine rescinded, even after payment.

Boombastic

My motor tax office is only open from 9.05 - 1.30, sure they've the rest of the afternoon for counting money

Bruthal

Boombastic wrote: »

My motor tax office is only open from 9.05 - 1.30, sure they've the rest of the afternoon for counting money

They were lucky the 1/2 cent coins were done away with. The clerk would have needed counselling.

smash

28064212 wrote: »

Who said you can't appeal it? Why not quote them?

And the likelihood of it being over-turned is entirely dependent on the individual facts of the case.

Ok..

TheRealSquishy wrote: »

Yeah but the fine isn't for not having tax its for not displaying a tax disk, got caught myself yesterday the exact same way but there's no way out of it.

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

Most appeals are not successful when it comes to non displaying of tax, unless the car has been recently purchased and the owner is waiting for the log book.

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

You're wrong. His car was parked in a public car park with no valid tax disc. Even if he had taxed it before the fine was issued, he would still be done for non display of a valid tax disc.

These were replies made when I stated he should have appealed the fine.

7 7 12

Legally they had to accept the 6000 coins though, they can't refuse legal tender for repayment of debit.

7 7 12

7 7 12 wrote: »

Legally they had to accept the 6000 coins though, they can't refuse legal tender for repayment of debit.

How many times do I have to say this ? There's no discussion about this.

4zn76tysfajdxp

7 7 12 wrote: »

Legally they had to accept the 6000 coins though, they can't refuse legal tender for repayment of debit.

7 7 12 wrote: »

How many times do I have to say this ? There's no discussion about this.

You're full of shit. They have no obligation to accept more than 50 coins in a single transaction. How many times do people have to say that?

Retrovertigo

7 7 12 wrote: »

How many times do I have to say this ? There's no discussion about this.

How many times can you state something that is incorrect and think you are right?

Logical_Bear

Madam_X wrote: »

so he was being a bully.

he was being a fukking asshole tbh

7 7 12

Colt Shrilling Jig wrote: »

You're full of shit. They have no obligation to accept more than 50 coins in a single transaction. How many times do people have to say that?

If there was no debt - then you are correct. (E.g. you go into a shop and say I want to buy this newspaper with 200 x 1 cent coins) then no contract has been agreed and there's no debit. I agree with you there.


BUT if there's already a debit created, then they must accept it otherwise they don't have a leg to stand on in court.

This has been stated and proven several times in this thread.

Logical_Bear

7 7 12 wrote: »

If there was no debt - then you are correct. (E.g. you go into a shop and say I want to buy this newspaper with 200 x 1 cent coins) then no contract has been agreed and there's no debit. I agree with you there.


BUT if there's already a debit created, then they must accept it otherwise they don't have a leg to stand on in court.

This has been stated and proven several times in this thread.

get of the internet will ye

Lando Griffin

Damn it.
Got to this thread a bit late.
If I was the cleark I would have counted every last cent and keeping him there until issuing him a receipt.

28064212

7 7 12 wrote: »

If there was no debt - then you are correct. (E.g. you go into a shop and say I want to buy this newspaper with 200 x 1 cent coins) then no contract has been agreed and there's no debit. I agree with you there.


BUT if there's already a debit created, then they must accept it otherwise they don't have a leg to stand on in court.

This has been stated and proven several times in this thread.

Point out where it has been proven. Do you know what proven means? In the case of a debt which already exists, a retailer must accept legal tender to fulfil that debt. Any transaction which has more than 50 coins is not legal tender, any more than supplying monopoly money is.

maddragon

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Damn it.
Got to this thread a bit late.
If I was the cleark I would have counted every last cent and keeping him there until issuing him a receipt.

This. Clerk will get paid anyway. He could'nt care less if he serves 1 customer or 100. At 430 he will turn off the light and head off home.

jack presley

maddragon wrote: »

This. Clerk will get paid anyway. He could'nt care less if he serves 1 customer or 100. At 430 he will turn off the light and head off home.

430.....??? Is he on overtime?

Boombastic

maddragon wrote: »

This. Clerk will get paid anyway. He could'nt care less if he serves 1 customer or 100. At 430 he will turn off the light and head off home.

4.30 what do you think motor tax offices are slave encampments? :eek:


Around here they clock off at 1.30, got to be home in time to listen to Joe:pac:

TwoShedsJackson

7 7 12 wrote: »

If there was no debt - then you are correct. (E.g. you go into a shop and say I want to buy this newspaper with 200 x 1 cent coins) then no contract has been agreed and there's no debit. I agree with you there.


BUT if there's already a debit created, then they must accept it otherwise they don't have a leg to stand on in court.

This has been stated and proven several times in this thread.

You're not a Freeman of the Land by any chance, are you?

Shenshen

7 7 12 wrote: »

Legally they had to accept the 6000 coins though, they can't refuse legal tender for repayment of debit.

Legal Tender in the Republic of Ireland :

"According to the Economic and Monetary Union Act, 1998 of the Republic of Ireland which replaced the legal tender provisions that had been re-enacted in Irish legislation from previous British enactments, No person, other than the Central Bank of Ireland and such persons as may be designated by the Minister by order, shall be obliged to accept more than 50 coins denominated in euro or in cent in any single transaction."

They're not obliged to accept it, but they usually do. This bloke isn't the first bright bunny to come up with this clever idea, there have been scores of people doing similar things before.

I remember one case years ago in Germany when someone had to pay back unpaid taxes and decided to pay them in very small coins, which he handed over in two large glass jars.
The department of Finance accepted them, counted them, and returned some €200 he was over his due in the same denomination...

maddragon

Boombastic wrote: »

4.30 what do you think motor tax offices are slave encampments? :eek:


Around here they clock off at 1.30, got to be home in time to listen to Joe:pac:

I meant 430am. He'll knock off at 1201pm and head to the pub and spend some of the €1000 per week he's pulling in and laugh with Mary from the HSE about how they get paid the equivalent of €250 per hour if you only count the hours they actually work. The pub lock in (only for public sector workers) will finish at 430am.

Boombastic

maddragon wrote: »

I meant 430am. He'll knock off at 1201pm and head to the pub and spend some of the €1000 per week he's pulling in and laugh with Mary from the HSE about how they get paid the equivalent of €250 per hour if you only count the hours they actually work. The pub lock in (only for public sector workers) will finish at 430am.

That's more like it, once all the drinks can be claimed as expenses and an allowance for dinner included

Max Power

Good to see this thread ticking along nicely.

Where To

I'm a couple of ducks short for paying my motor tax, anyone want to help me out?

jmayo

Morph the Cat wrote: »

"The Government has approved formal arrangements to reduce the payment period by central Government Departments to their business suppliers from 30 to 15 days."

1) 30 days is standard on all invoices. 15 days is decent of them, TBH.
2) You still haven't backed up your statement. Nowhere does that article specify that a company went out of business because of the government paying their invoices after 30 days.
3) Article is from 2009.

Try again.

Those arrangements aren't worth the paper they are written on and everyone fooking knows it.

Anyone that does business with public sector, especially places like HSE, will attest to this.

Every stalling scam is used to avoid payment.
Proofs of Delivery have to be resent, invoices are lost and have to be resent both in hardcopy and electronically, only Proofs of Delivery signed by certain personnel are excepted, accounts do not talk to purchasing and it is up to supplier to talk to purchasing.
The list of excuses are endless and I have even seen invoices outstanding for over a year.
The best I heard was one accounts executive telling supplier they had no money so you have to wait.

I don't know if companies have gone out of business but it definetly does not help with cash flow.

So why don't you try again and stop dragging up a guideline that means fook all in the real world. :mad:

ibrahimovic

jmayo wrote: »

Those arrangements aren't worth the paper they are written on and everyone fooking knows it.



So why don't you try again and stop dragging up a guideline that means fook all in the real world. :mad:

:rolleyes: dilweed much? :rolleyes: god some people:rolleyes: tools much?

Elfinknight

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Doesn't matter. There wasn't a valid tax disc on his windscreen.

How far out of date was it. Even your tax renewal form tells you that you have a month to pay for it before you go into arrears.

For instance mine was up at the end of January and my renewal notice says that.

If it was any further out of date you have to go to the tax office anyway and pay the arrears and a fine anyway unless it has been signed off by the gardai for being off the road.

It you ask me it was the warden was a power tripping wanna be cop

Caliden

ibrahimovic wrote: »

:rolleyes: dilweed much? :rolleyes: god some people:rolleyes: tools much?

what?

RossFixxxed

Most people who serve members of the public want to help them out, they don't want an immature tool monopolising the entire queue with their petty backlash. Even if he was wronged he could have been an adult about this rather than throwing the toys out of the pram and appealed the thing. He comes across as one of these desperate to please the boyos in the pub type with his 'legendary' exploits. We've all been annoyed, but taking it out on the teller or other people in the tax office is just pathetic. What a sad little man.