Best big-game goalscorers in football history.

Dickerty

A pal of mins just got this published by the Guardian -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/feb/06/best-big-game-goalscorer-football-history

Based on goals scored in the biggest club and international games -

1. Gerd Mullar
2. Alfredo Di Stefano
3. Pele
4. Ferenc Puskas
5. Zinedine Zidane

Give his site a look if you like your stats -

http://www.averageopposition.com/p/top-50.html

The_Kew_Tour

Ronaldo ahead of Messi:cool:

Dickerty

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ronaldo ahead of Messi:cool:

It's something that Ronaldo supporters have used against Messi, he tends to fill his boots against lesser teams. Not always the most prolific against the tougher sides, or in the biggest games...

Neil3030

Sounds about right to me. Always nice to be reminded that football existed before the Sky / Champions League generation.

ahnowbrowncow

Copa america is too highly rated, Forlan is good but 15th best big game goal scorer? Really?

bullvine

DROGBA has got to be one the best of modern times!

SlickRic

Didier Drogba.

bullvine

SlickRic wrote: »

Didier Drogba.

Like minds!

BetterCallSaul

Load of nonsense list tbh. The obvious flaws in the methodology are made more obvious by some of the glaring omissions.

Andersonisgod

Didier Drogba. The amount of big games he won, at times almost single handedly, is crazy to think about. For me, he is the greatest striker of his generation.

homerjay2005

under the sub-category "shi* footballers who scored big goals especially against Arsenal" -

Park Ji Sung!

dont have the full stats, but the lad has a load of goals against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool combined. at a quick look, 50% of his PL& CL goals came against those three teams.

gimmick

Dickerty wrote: »

It's something that Ronaldo supporters have used against Messi, he tends to fill his boots against lesser teams. Not always the most prolific against the tougher sides, or in the biggest games...

2 champions league finals played, 2 goals, 1 MOTM. What a daft assertion.

Of modern day players, I would certainly add Iniesta. Best big game player in the world at present.

BetterCallSaul

Dickerty wrote: »

It's something that Ronaldo supporters have used against Messi, he tends to fill his boots against lesser teams. Not always the most prolific against the tougher sides, or in the biggest games...

Sorry to disappoint you, but here's what a more sensible methodology throws up:

It has its flaws as well though.

Link

The_Kew_Tour

Iniesta does deserve to be included.

Van Basten gets my vote in my lifetime.

Giggsy11

Gibson scored in Champions league Semi Final so did Park but Xavi didn't (IIRC)

mike65

No Dirk Kuyt, list no good!

Zidane takes it for me. Made a show of anyone no matter how good they were. Just look at his performances in the 98 WC final and his CL final against Bayer Lev. Class act

Rekop dog

Zizu biggest in my time anyway. Got to a stage where he needed a big occasion to perform and struggled in the regular league/cup games.

ahnowbrowncow

Didier Drogba, BOOM.

That was my impression of Didier Drogba in a big game.

ROCKMAN

From an English stand point ..

Lampard
Scholes
Gerrard

Not strikers.... but jesus how many times have they made the difference in big games for their clubs

BetterCallSaul

Zidane was the one of the best big game performers but hardily a prolific goal scorer in big games? (The WC final and CL final of course) but that wasn't his game.

Messi and the Brazilian Ronaldo are two of the best in my lifetime.

Neil3030

Can your mate also produce a "big game bottler" list? That would be tremendous fun.

The Mulk

No David Villa, interesting

He was top scorer in Euro 08 and WC 10, he has about 40 points (including 06 and 12). Not including any club games.
My head hurts

homerjay2005

Neil3030 wrote: »

Can your mate also produce a "big game bottler" list? That would be tremendous fun.

Luis Suarez would be at the top of this list, though these days the like of West Ham, Qpr and Norwich are big games for Liverpool...

:cool:

roanoke

homerjay2005 wrote: »

under the sub-category "shi* footballers who scored big goals especially against Arsenal" -

Park Ji Sung!

dont have the full stats, but the lad has a load of goals against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool combined. at a quick look, 50% of his PL& CL goals came against those three teams.

Here's all his PL+CL goals and who against. He certainly liked Arsenal!

Arsenal 5
Wolves 2
Blackburn 2
Bolton 2
Chelsea 2
Fulham 1
Liverpool 1
Aston Villa 1
Blackpool 1
Charlton 1
Middlesbro 1
Milan 1
Stoke 1
Wigan 1

36% vs Arsenal+Chelsea+Liverpool

homerjay2005

roanoke wrote: »

36% vs Arsenal+Chelsea+Liverpool

he has 3 cup goals against them also and i had him down for 19 PL goals, not 22 so hence the gap -

my quick calculation was 11 out of 22 = 50%

premierstone

How are Maradonna and Klose not included or am I missing something? Maradonna has scored 8 goals in the World Cup alone and Klose has a serious record at major championships???

roanoke

premierstone wrote: »

How are Maradonna and Klose not included or am I missing something? Maradonna has scored 8 goals in the World Cup alone and Klose has a serious record at major championships???

I was just reading the guys explanation. His weighted table is badly worded.
When he talks about "World Cup final group stages" = 3.5 , he actually means the latter round groups (eg 74 78 and 82 tournaments).

So say Ray Houghtons goal vs Italy in 1994 or Klose's 4 goals vs Saudi Arabia in 2002? Worth = 0

PhlegmyMoses

It is weighted heavily against players who play for **** international teams. Basically, if you were a striker in a team who were the best in the world for a couple of World Cups or regional trophies, you'll get on the list. Torres is on there because he has scored a couple of goals in an immense Spain team. At no point would anybody have said that he was the deciding factor. That being said, the top 5 doesn't throw up many surprises.

premierstone

roanoke wrote: »

I was just reading the guys explanation. His weighted table is badly worded.
When he talks about "World Cup final group stages" = 3.5 , he actually means the second round groups of the 74 78 and 82 tournaments only.

So say Ray Houghtons goal vs Italy in 1994 or Klose's 4 goals vs Saudi Arabia in 2002? Worth = 0

Fair enough but whatever system he used leaving Maradona out of the Top 50 is ludicrous, the man single handily won a World Cup and turned Napoli into a major European Force from nothing.

roanoke

homerjay2005 wrote: »

he has 3 cup goals against them also and i had him down for 19 PL goals, not 22 so hence the gap -

my quick calculation was 11 out of 22 = 50%

He did only score 19 PL goals total. My total of 22 is his PL + CL (as these were the two you spoke of) and I have included his CL goals vs Arsenal and Chelsea in my 36%

Arsenal 4 (+1 CL) = 5
Wolves 2
Blackburn 2
Bolton 2
Chelsea 1 (+1 CL) =2
Fulham 1
Liverpool 1
Aston Villa 1
Blackpool 1
Charlton 1
Middlesbro 1
Milan 0 (+1 CL) = 1
Stoke 1
Wigan 1
=============
Total 19 (+3 CL) = 22

(5+2+1) / 22 = 36.36%

Crackle

Anyone else think it strange that he'd give more points for scoring in the group stage of the World Cup than scoring in a Champions League final?

roanoke

Crackle wrote: »

Anyone else think it strange that he'd give more points for scoring in the group stage of the World Cup than scoring in a Champions League final?

Yep. Also by "group stage" he actually means "latter round groups" (Eg 1950 74 78 82) not opening groups.

Regardless tho I still think it's flawed that a goal in one of those (at least 74 78 82 anyway) is worth more than one in a CL final.

premierstone

Crackle wrote: »

Anyone else think it strange that he'd give more points for scoring in the group stage of the World Cup than scoring in a Champions League final?

Probably because the world cup is only every 4 years while in theory a player could play in 4 Champions league finals in the same timeframe.

African players seemed to have been completely ignored aswell.

ahnowbrowncow

premierstone wrote: »

Probably because the world cup is only every 4 years while in theory a player could play in 4 Champions league finals in the same timeframe.

African players seemed to have been completely ignored aswell.

Shoddy workmanship, that's what it is... Shoddy!!! Shoddy!!! SHODDY!!!!!!!

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

Sounds about right to me. Always nice to be reminded that football existed before the Sky / Champions League generation.

True, and the defenders would not spare you back in the day either

Lawrence1895

Lars Ricken for me. December 1994 against La Coruna, Ricken (17 years old) scoring in the dying minutes of injury time. Borussia through to the next round of the UEFA cup. He went to school the next morning, as if nothing had happened the night before.

Or even more important, CL final against Juventus in May 1997, Ricken coming on as a sub, first touch of the ball after 15 seconds, goal...maybe still the fastest goal of a sub in the Championsleague.

PhlegmyMoses

Deleted User wrote: »

True, and the defenders would not spare you back in the day either

No, but they'd often be slower than Jason McAteer at a pub quiz and die a death after 70 mins. There are pros and cons for each era. I can tell you this much, those defenders wouldn't get near the likes of Messi to actually kick him. They simply wouldn't catch him.

bullvine

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Luis Suarez would be at the top of this list, though these days the like of West Ham, Qpr and Norwich are big games for Liverpool...

:cool:

Thierry Henry has to be the biggest bottler, did he ever break that record of never scoring in a final??

BetterCallSaul

BetterCallSaul wrote: »

Zidane was the one of the best big game performers but hardily a prolific goal scorer in big games? (The WC final and CL final of course) but that wasn't his game.

.

They are the 2/3 biggest games you can play in and he scored in both. The question is who has scored goals in big games. Well Zidane scored two in a world cup final and scored a winner in a CL final, you don't get bigger then that.

monkey9

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Luis Suarez would be at the top of this list, though these days the like of West Ham, Qpr and Norwich are big games for Liverpool...

:cool:

Dickerty

premierstone wrote: »

Fair enough but whatever system he used leaving Maradona out of the Top 50 is ludicrous, the man single handily won a World Cup and turned Napoli into a major European Force from nothing.

Napoli only won the Uefa Cup and Serie A, not the European Cup. And it's about longevity - most players on the list has 15 years or more at a high level, Maradona had 1 great World Cup, a few leagie titles, but not enough years in the biggest games...

pickarooney

Ray Houghton should be top of the list.

Dickerty

premierstone wrote: »

Probably because the world cup is only every 4 years while in theory a player could play in 4 Champions league finals in the same timeframe.

African players seemed to have been completely ignored aswell.

How have they been ignored? If they play in the South American or European leagues, and for their country at World Cups, then they are fully eligible. If you include the African Nations Cup (at a lower scoring level), I doubt they would impact the top of the list, or even the middle,.

George Weah is probably the best African player of our generation, but he never played in the WC, and he never won a European trophy with his club.

By the same rationale, any player from a minor nation (George Best for example) is also being ignored. He's not really, but the toughest level to complete at is World Cup latter stages, and Copa/Euros. So people who succeed at that level (and multiple times) are worth of being considered among the best ever...

Dickerty

gimmick wrote: »

2 champions league finals played, 2 goals, 1 MOTM. What a daft assertion..

It's not a personal assertion, it's based on the statistics. So how is it daft?

Ronaldo has been around a few years longer, and has 7 goals in these big games compared to Messi's 5. That's just a fact. I don't think Ronaldo is a better player.

gimmick wrote: »

Of modern day players, I would certainly add Iniesta. Best big game player in the world at present.

Again, it's only about goal-scorers. Iniesta is obviously not a high scorer compared to others on the list.

Maldini, Baresi, Puyol, Mattheus etc are also not on the list, for the same reason...

Bertser

What does he mean by World Cup final group stages? Any group stage game? If so, Drogba has 16 points I think. Or is it just the last group stage match?

premierstone

Dickerty wrote: »

Napoli only won the Uefa Cup and Serie A, not the European Cup. And it's about longevity - most players on the list has 15 years or more at a high level, Maradona had 1 great World Cup, a few leagie titles, but not enough years in the biggest games...

Are you serious?? Maradona played in 4 World Cups in an international career spanning 17 years including winning one single handed and getting to a final four years later and hasn't made the top 50 but Geoff Hurst who played well for 90 mins is in the list

What had Napoli won before Maradonna arrived aswell, and the UEFA cup was considerably more prestigous back then, he won 6 trophies with them and finished in the first 2 in the league 4 years running, they didn't retire the No. 10 jersey for nothing!

I'm sorry but a list off all time 'big game' goalscorers that doesn't include Maradonna in the top 50 is unquestionably flawed.

homerjay2005

monkey9 wrote: »

his scoring rate against the top teams, in the big games is really poor. the vast majority of his goals come against the bottom teams in the league.

bullvine

Like everything to do with stats its not exactly practical. If you read the original comments about the system its obvious why hes not on it, its purely based on goals scored.

In saying that, I find Diego Maradonna's achievements constantly being dissed on boards.

Hes up there with Bruce Lee, Elvis and Jesus Christ, as the greatest man to ever walk the earth.

premierstone

Dickerty wrote: »

How have they been ignored? If they play in the South American or European leagues, and for their country at World Cups, then they are fully eligible. If you include the African Nations Cup (at a lower scoring level), I doubt they would impact the top of the list, or even the middle,.

George Weah is probably the best African player of our generation, but he never played in the WC, and he never won a European trophy with his club.

By the same rationale, any player from a minor nation (George Best for example) is also being ignored. He's not really, but the toughest level to complete at is World Cup latter stages, and Copa/Euros. So people who succeed at that level (and multiple times) are worth of being considered among the best ever...

They have been ignored simply by the fact that the African Nations Cup has been excluded whereas the South American and European equivilants are included, thus oplacing them at a massive disadvantage.

Didier Drogba would make the list if it was included and I'm sure there are others - Kanu??

Can't agree with you that the toughest level to compete is a World Cup, the last few have been terrible and the standard of the Champions League is infinitly greater.

The whole concept is completly redicilous anyway, he is essentially saying that someone who scores to make it 5-0 in a final is on a par with someone who scores the winner in a 1-0 final?

monkey9

homerjay2005 wrote: »

his scoring rate against the top teams, in the big games is really poor. the vast majority of his goals come against the bottom teams in the league.

He's scored against all the top teams and virtually won Uruguay the Copa America on his own