Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

pleasant Co.

Meesared wrote: »

Maybe the PS4 is smaller than it needs to be?

Pffft, that's not a thing :P

If Sony have made a solid device in a unit that size then they should be applauded, i wont be a day one buyer of either console so don't mind waiting and seeing...there's nothing to suggest either console is more or less reliable but time will decide that for us.

FAILSAFE 00

WolfForager wrote: »

Well you're wrong there. The last gen MS went with a simple (comparatively) PowerPC set up whereas Sony went with "The Cell". The Cell as a CPU was a helluva alot better than the 360 CPU and was coupled with a split pool of RAM and an underwhelming GPU. Now the plan for Sony's set up was for devs to use the Cell to do pretty much everything, assigning tasks that would normally be given to the GPU to the CPU and therefore freeing up the GPU to do more Graphics based calculations. Fantastic in theory but in practice it didn't work out so great, devs spent years trying to figure out the Cell set up and the only devs that were able to get a firm grip on it were Sony's own 1st party studios. So devs got fed up with Sony's ridiculous set up and started designing games for the 360's more simple set up and porting them to the PS3, therefore 360 games often ended up looking better than their PS3 counterparts.

However as I said, Sony's 1st party devs were quite adept at coding for the Cell and this can be seen in the quality of the visuals in the Uncharted, Gran Turismo and Killzone games. If you compare these games to the 360 exclusives, you'll see that the PS3 was in fact the more powerful console.


TLDR: PS3 was more powerful, Sony were just bat **** insane. Ken Kutaragi!


Now regards PS4 vs Xbone, they are both using a more traditional PC type set up. In terms of GPU PS4 has 1.84 Teraflops vs 1.2TF on the Xbone. In terms of RAM both are using 8Gb but Sony are using GDDR5 and MS are using DDR3. GDDR5 has higher bandwidth and Sony are only using 1Gb for the system OS versus MS's 3Gb, essentially leaving the PS4 with an extra 2Gb or high speed RAM to mess around with. Not much is known about the CPUs of either console but they are using the same ATI Jaguar design so they're probably pretty similar.

So Sony have the more powerful console and as it is more of a linear power advantage than the previous gen there will be graphical differences (in Sony's favour) in the next gen of multi-plat games.

Apologies,
I am talking about how fast the operating system is not about the hardware. How well does each console navigate through their UI, that's what I want to know. How well they handle multiple processes. We all know the PS4 is more powerful but its all about what they can do with that power.

ShiverinEskimo

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Omg how can you say that, YOU DON'T KNOW. :pac:

Your irony is ironic.

wnolan1992

Penn wrote: »

Not sure if you use GMail, but ever notice how, when reading an email, the ad just above the email relates to words mentioned in your email?

Google employees obviously aren't reading all your emails and deciding what ads to place, it's automatic. It recognises prominent words in your email and displays ads accordingly. That's what people are afraid of with the always-on Kinect; that it will be able to identify words and stuff and target stuff like game/netflix suggestions towards that. That it'll recognise if there's children and suggest based on that etc.

The fact is, it's all speculation, but the fact that the Kinect has to always be plugged in for the console to function does nothing but fuel that speculation, and that's damaging people's trust in the Xbone.

(Fun Fact: If your GMail email contains words like 9/11 or rape, no ads will show up at all)

I've often wondered why people are "afraid" of this. Like, surely seeing more relevant ads to what you're into is a win-win situation?

For example, let's say you're having a conversation about Game of Thrones in your living room with Kinect listening away. Next time you're browsing Xbox Live you see an ad saying "You know GoT is on Netflix now?". Surely (as long as you're aware that it can do this through the ToU) this is a good thing?


EDIT: I guess there is the fear that things you're saying could be overheard by outside agencies, which is a legitimate concern IMO, but I don't understand the people that get annoyed about things like more relevant ads.

Stone Deaf 4evr

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Omg how can you say that, YOU DON'T KNOW. :pac:

http://youtu.be/vh5kZ4uIUC0

WolfForager

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Apologies,
I am talking about how fast the operating system is not about the hardware. How well does each console navigate through their UI, that's what I want to know. How well they handle multiple processes. We all know the PS4 is more powerful but its all about what they can do with that power.

Well I don't know how relevant the speed of the operating system is when it comes to games, but of course MS will have the better/faster operating system, it's essentially going to be Windows 8.

TNT2k_

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Why do you think the empty space is there?

For airflow of course but it is an inefficient design to look at least. Look at a MacBook Pro for example -CPU, GPU and a hard drive which all generate a lot of heat, yet it is extremely compact and efficient in ventilation design. Everything is geared towards directing airflow to the fans and vents, with no empty or wasted space.

I think that's the point he's trying to make. Empty space is better for airflow but if you'd a more efficient design you could have the same, or better results even, in a smaller size.

We've yet to see how the PS4 holds up, but Sony is a hardware company and they know what they're doing. I'd imagine they have the upper hand on the engineering side of things. I remember when the PS3 slim came out people were amazed they were able to shrink all that down so much, given what it was, and all while improving on reliability.

It wouldn't shock me if Sony was able to give the same, or slightly better levels of reliability, while being much smaller in size due to more efficient hardware design.

Grayditch

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I've often wondered why people are "afraid" of this. Like, surely seeing more relevant ads to what you're into is a win-win situation?

That is a slippery slope, my friend.

PhlegmyMoses

TNT2k_ wrote: »

For airflow of course but it is an inefficient design to look at least. Look at a MacBook Pro for example -CPU, GPU and a hard drive which all generate a lot of heat, yet it is extremely compact and efficient in ventilation design. Everything is geared towards directing airflow to the fans and vents, with no empty or wasted space.

A Macbook Pro retails for around treble the price of a PS4 or Xbox One. Everything about it should be superior.

I think that's the point he's trying to make. Empty space is better for airflow but if you'd a more efficient design you could have the same, or better results even, in a smaller size.

We've yet to see how the PS4 holds up, but Sony is a hardware company and they know what they're doing. I'd imagine they have the upper hand on the engineering side of things. I remember when the PS3 slim came out people were amazed they were able to shrink all that down so much, given what it was, and all while improving on reliability.

It wouldn't shock me if Sony was able to give the same, or slightly better levels of reliability, while being much smaller in size due to more efficient hardware design.

I suspect the PS4 will be fine as well. I'm just not overly bothered by MS being extra cautious this time and ensuring their ventilation system is going to work. Again, I can't be sure on any of it but the interior of the Xbox One suggests that ventilation will not be a problem.

Richard Dower

Slugs wrote: »

Well, to do that we first need to define what are we talking about when we refer to "Hardcore"...

I define hardcore as gamers who like to do DP's.....:p

Richard Dower

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Here's something you could try:

http://lifehacker.com/5299994/rain-gutters-as-cable-management-tools

Is that a rain gutter

ShiverinEskimo

Richard Dower wrote: »

Is that a rain gutter

Yep. Super idea really.

Richard Dower

Meesared wrote: »

Has the PS4 not having an external power supply been confirmed?

Internal PSU, confirmed....same two pin power cord as the PS3.

Richard Dower

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Really upped their game? Have you seen the inside of the xbox one, half of it is empty space

That is an OEM heatsink/fan combo if i ever seen one!....shocked it has copper heatpipes, jaysus!.....it looks like a HTPC :eek:

Richard Dower

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Why do you think the empty space is there?

Dust bunnies?

Richard Dower

Be interesting to see modding of the xbox one, better heatsinks....custom cooling, heatsinks for memory or VRM etc.

Sure looks like a modders paradise!

Stone Deaf 4evr

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I've often wondered why people are "afraid" of this. Like, surely seeing more relevant ads to what you're into is a win-win situation?

For example, let's say you're having a conversation about Game of Thrones in your living room with Kinect listening away. Next time you're browsing Xbox Live you see an ad saying "You know GoT is on Netflix now?". Surely (as long as you're aware that it can do this through the ToU) this is a good thing?

are ya mad?

if you're having a night in with all your mates over and you're discussing how hot your neighbors daughter is, then when you log in to netflix for a nice film with your missus, it recommends "nude nuns with big guns"

TNT2k_

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

A Macbook Pro retails for around treble the price of a PS4 or Xbox One. Everything about it should be superior.

That's not the point, the consoles are lower clocked and consume less voltage this gen than last. Good hardware design can be made on a budget. If Sony can do a good job of that with the PS4, Microsoft have no excuse and it's just a poorer design choice they made.

I suspect the PS4 will be fine as well. I'm just not overly bothered by MS being extra cautious this time and ensuring their ventilation system is going to work. Again, I can't be sure on any of it but the interior of the Xbox One suggests that ventilation will not be a problem.

I'd agree with you, I'm not overly fussed either I just found it interesting how both companies are approaching design, though we've yet to see how both play out in due time.

The X1 is about the size of the original PS3 so if you want it enough you can accommodate the size and get over it, but again it's interesting how Sony are doing it at the minute. If they do it well they're just showing it's wasted space in the X1 when it could've been smaller with an internal power supply which would come with better design choices.

wnolan1992

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

are ya mad?

if you're having a night in with all your mates over and you're discussing how hot your neighbors daughter is, then when you log in to netflix for a nice film with your missus, it recommends "nude nuns with big guns"

"Sorry babe, me and the lads were discussing the different guns the Irish Army uses, that Kinect has a filthy mind!"

:P

Scruff

For all this talk of the ps4 being 50% faster they dont seem to be able to hit 1080p/60fps more than the Xbone can...

xbone:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

ps4
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

on the fence myself as to which to get. (un)luckily we still have a few more moths to see how things shape up and what other alterations/back peddling goes on..

Meesared

Interesting stuff there! Of course we will likely see improvements in the games mentioned before launch. But still intresting none the less.

FlyingIrishMan

Scruff wrote: »

For all this talk of the ps4 being 50% faster they dont seem to be able to hit 1080p/60fps more than the Xbone can...

xbone:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

ps4
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

on the fence myself as to which to get. (un)luckily we still have a few more moths to see how things shape up and what other alterations/back peddling goes on..

That just means those games won't look as good. PS4 is the more powerful console, its not an opinion.

miralize

I know its an expensive technology, but i was really disappointed that both of the consoles dont adopt SSD's, even a small SSD for the boot up OS only. At least the PS4 hard drive is user replaceable

TNT2k_

Scruff wrote: »

For all this talk of the ps4 being 50% faster they dont seem to be able to hit 1080p/60fps more than the Xbone can...

xbone:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-xbox-one

ps4
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

on the fence myself as to which to get. (un)luckily we still have a few more moths to see how things shape up and what other alterations/back peddling goes on..

It's up to the developer if they want to do 1080p60fps. Killzone is 30fps but very detailed, that's what they wanted. I'm sure with optimisation and more time all games, or a large majority anyway, will be 1080p60fps. It's only really substantial in shooters anyway.

They said there's no smoke and mirrors with the PS4. The Xbox used more powerful windows computers for their demos. If the Xbox can do it, there's no doubt in the world the PS4 can do it too as it's more powerful.

These are just launch games anyway, give it until next year and both consoles will really come into their own.

evolutionqy7

miralize wrote: »

I know its an expensive technology, but i was really disappointed that both of the consoles dont adopt SSD's, even a small SSD for the boot up OS only. At least the PS4 hard drive is user replaceable

You can plug a HDD into the Xbox if you run out of space

shruikan2553

I think I have discovered a way to stop our kinect overlords from stealing our identities and taking over our lives. It needs power to run so what if you just unplug it or use the switch on the wall when you talk about your super secret awesome plans? Thats if they dont include the option of turning off the "xbox on" features.

Otherwise I'll just yell game of thrones spoilers in the room so the person listening to me on the other side 24/7 get pissed off and mutes me.

Scruff

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

That just means those games won't look as good.

if this if that etc.
My "if" would be that given the commonality of both console's hardware, game devs will imo use a common engine that can be used in their game for xbone. ps4 and pc (dx11+) and if they get 1080p/30FPS and pretty on all 3 they wont bother investing extra into tweaking for either console unless Sony/MS throw a wad of cash at them.
Platform exclusives and primarily first party will be the only ones that will take full advantage but they will be the vast minority. just my 2c

PS4 is the more powerful console, its not an opinion.

i'm not making an argument that isnt X% more powerful, i'm merely pointing out that at these early stages more powerful doesnt seem to be translating into anything better on the PS4.

All of which is a bit disappointing. Given the ps4's superiority on paper i'd love if fully utilised it translated in reality to make better looking/smoother/smarter AI/etc games. but very early days yet.

kearneybobs

What I find most mind boggling about it all is why will there have to be a day one patch when the console launches. The launch is 5 months away yet they cant seem to change the firmware/software to remove that feature.

Is it a way to keep that feature in there but not active?
Is the day one patch for the software/game or for the firmware?

Rascasse

kearneybobs wrote: »

Is it a way to keep that feature in there but not active?
Is the day one patch for the software/game or for the firmware?

Perhaps they are already in production and it's too much hassle to rework them? Manufacturing tech is complicated enough without adding recalls and reworks (and the knock on effects) to something this big. Just get Joe consumer to do it.

FlyingIrishMan

kearneybobs wrote: »

What I find most mind boggling about it all is why will there have to be a day one patch when the console launches. The launch is 5 months away yet they cant seem to change the firmware/software to remove that feature.

Is it a way to keep that feature in there but not active?
Is the day one patch for the software/game or for the firmware?

Rumours are their OS is far behind in development, so it probably won't be finished in time to be pre-installed on the console so that 1 day patch will allow them to continue working on it up until launch day.