Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

pleasant Co.

Christ, you really need to be a very specific type of user in order to qualify to get an X1...so many niche requirements to be met in order to make it a fantastic purchase :P

ShiverinEskimo

pleasant Co. wrote: »

Christ, you really need to be a very specific type of user in order to qualify to get an X1...so many niche requirements to be met in order to make it a fantastic purchase :P

I doubt there's very many current-gen users just use their console for gaming. Else we wouldn't have these features even on the current gen.

TNT2k_

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

All the posts about console stats are giving me a headache. Saying the PS4 is more powerful because of % this and % that when no one has been given a chance to test the PS4 or even see its internals is ridiculous.

Paper stats mean nothing. When you watch Top Gear do you see them coming to a consensus about 2 sports cars by reading a few stats on paper, no! they take 2 cars out onto a track and drive the **** outa them, they evaluate based on performance.

True performance is measured by results. When the Xbone and PS4 are tested side by side then that is a time to consider the results.

That analogy doesn't translate well into computer technology at all. You have to look at them as both being the same car, the X1 is stock and the PS4 is a modified version.

The PS4 has 50% more CUs. No matter what the PS4 will have the performance edge and that's not going to change. The X1 won't magically become equally as powerful like you seem to be holding out for.

So if both consoles are basically so similar, just the PS4 has more resources available, then of course the PS4 will still come out on top. That is clear on paper and it will be the same when those tests are carried out. That's just the reality of it.

pleasant Co.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I doubt there's very many current-gen users just use their console for gaming. Else we wouldn't have these features even on the current gen.

Thanks for offering your opinion, but I didn't say anything of the sort...

as you were :pac:

ShiverinEskimo

TNT2k_ wrote: »

That analogy doesn't translate well into computer technology at all. You have to look at them as both being the same car, the X1 is stock and the PS4 is a modified version.

The PS4 has 50% more CUs. No matter what the PS4 will have the performance edge and that's not going to change. The X1 won't magically become equally as powerful like you seem to be holding out for.

So if both consoles are basically so similar, just the PS4 has more resources available, then of course the PS4 will still come out on top. That is clear on paper and it will be the same when those tests are carried out. That's just the reality of it.

Not exactly. There's the eSRAM factor which Anandtech explains below:

According to their data, there’s roughly 50GB/s of bandwidth in each direction to the SoC’s embedded SRAM (102GB/s total bandwidth). The combination of the two plus the CPU-GPU connection at 30GB/s is how Microsoft arrives at its 200GB/s bandwidth figure, although in reality that’s not how any of this works. If it’s used as a cache, the embedded SRAM should significantly cut down on GPU memory bandwidth requests which will give the GPU much more bandwidth than the 256-bit DDR3-2133 memory interface would otherwise imply. Depending on how the eSRAM is managed, it’s very possible that the Xbox One could have comparable effective memory bandwidth to the PlayStation 4. If the eSRAM isn’t managed as a cache however, this all gets much more complicated......

.....The funny thing about game consoles is that it’s usually the lowest common denominator that determines the bulk of the experience across all platforms.

So don't take my word for it folks. Take it from one of the most trusted analysts of computing hardware instead.

pleasant Co. wrote: »

Thanks for offering your opinion, but I didn't say anything of the sort...

as you were

You suggested you'd need to be more than just a gamer to consider the X1 a great purchase? All I did was illustrate that we already have millions of those type of people out there on the current gen. The next gen will be no different. It's kind of why MS are trying to appeal to them all.

As you were.

FlyingIrishMan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

So don't take my word for it folks. Take it from one of the most trusted analysts of computing hardware instead.

Thats if developers jump through hoops to get the most out of the memory, thus making development a lot harder on Xbox One.

ShiverinEskimo

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

Thats if developers jump through hoops to get the most out of the memory, thus making development a lot harder on Xbox One.

On board cache is not a new concept. The hoops will be safe Mr. Hyperbole.

syboit

TNT2k_ wrote: »

The PS4 has 50% more CUs. No matter what the PS4 will have the performance edge and that's not going to change. The X1 won't magically become equally as powerful like you seem to be holding out for.

Like failsafe was saying, surely we need to wait till games are published to see which console will provide the better game experience? Didn't the ps3 have more cpu power over the xbox360, and I don't think you could say the ps3 won that round ?

I remember the exact same arguments when the N64 was released, it had the most power at the time but turned out was too hard to develop for , and failed compared to the original ps.

pleasant Co.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

You suggested you'd need to be more than just a gamer to consider the X1 a great purchase? All I did was illustrate that we already have millions of those type of people out there on the current gen. The next gen will be no different. It's kind of why MS are trying to appeal to them all.

As you were.

I suggested no such thing, certainly nothing quite so broad-reaching as that.

TNT2k_

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Not exactly. There's the eSRAM factor which Anandtech explains below:



So don't take my word for it folks. Take it from one of the most trusted analysts of computing hardware instead.

This has been explained. It's not the ideal route, you do need to jump through hopes, as said above, and manage your reasources incredibly well to hit that peak target. In reality unified memory is superior to slower RAM with a buffer. Mark Cerny went into great depth to explain that as they were doing to go with it but stopped. You should look up his presentation from a few days ago, it's very interesting. We could wait a few months for those results to show up when both are compared.

syboit wrote: »

Like failsafe was saying, surely we need to wait till games are published to see which console will provide the better game experience? Didn't the ps3 have more cpu power over the xbox360, and I don't think you could say the ps3 won that round ?

I remember the exact same arguments when the N64 was released, it had the most power at the time but turned out was too hard to develop for , and failed compared to the original ps.

In terms of games, yes I would say the PS3 won that round. Games with the graphical fidelity of God of War, Uncharted and The Last of Us aren't to be found on the xbox. The GPU was weaker, but the CPU was much stronger, only it was hampered by difficult programming and a RAM bottleneck. Not the case anymore for the PS4, though.

FAILSAFE 00

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

Thats if developers jump through hoops to get the most out of the memory, thus making development a lot harder on Xbox One.

Its all about the margins. Profits etc. The console that offers the most prospect in terms of profits will do well. Actually the developers that develop games for multiple platform should clean up.

ShiverinEskimo

pleasant Co. wrote: »

I suggested no such thing, certainly nothing quite so broad-reaching as that.

Feel free to clarify or elaborate so because what you said was fairly vague.

ShiverinEskimo

TNT2k_ wrote: »

This has been explained. It's not the ideal route, you do need to jump through hopes, as said above, and manage your reasources incredibly well to hit that peak target. In reality unified memory is superior to slower RAM with a buffer. Mark Cerny went into great depth to explain that as they were doing to go with it but stopped. You should look up his presentation from a few days ago, it's very interesting. We could wait a few months for those results to show up when both are compared.

I'd rather wait for the independant analysis myself before taking anything said by someone on a payroll as gospel. That goes for both sides.

FAILSAFE 00

TNT2k_ wrote: »

In terms of games, yes I would say the PS3 won that round. Games with the graphical fidelity of God of War, Uncharted and The Last of Us aren't to be found on the xbox. The GPU was weaker, but the CPU was much stronger, only it was hampered by difficult programming and a RAM bottleneck. Not the case anymore for the PS4, though.

I wouldn't agree, the Xbox 360 in terms of online gaming experience was far superior. The PS3 has finished this generation really well showing some great graphics and titles but this has been a 6 to 7 year generation.

2Mad2BeMad

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree, the Xbox 360 in terms of online gaming experience was far superior. The PS3 has finished this generation really well showing some great graphics and titles but this has been a 6 to 7 year generation.

i feel ps3 starting winning the "console war" from 2010 onwards
before that it was a pile of ****e

i quote console war because i believe console wars are for fanboys and not gamers

im getting an xbox one btw because it suits me more, although ps4 looks quite good as well

pleasant Co.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Feel free to clarify or elaborate so because what you said was fairly vague.

It would take far to long to quote your own posts, where you set out specific and elaborate scenarios in order to make the X1's media abilities seem in some way impressive/necessary/advantageous, back to you. I'd much rather spend the next hour playing Darksiders 2.

FlyingIrishMan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Here's a suggestion: look up the meaning of suggestion.

How is me suggesting you get an Ouya and a PS4 instead of an X1 not the correct definition of suggestion?

ShiverinEskimo

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

How is me suggesting you get an Ouya and a PS4 instead of an X1 not the correct definition of suggestion?

Read your second post wrong. Genuine apologies.

TNT2k_

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I'd rather wait for the independant analysis myself before taking anything said by someone on a payroll as gospel. That goes for both sides.

That's fair enough, but if anything can be said of his presentations he's not full of BS. He's a developer and gamer himself who deeply understands the machine he's built. I'd still advice you to go check out his presentation. It was very interesting if you're a gamer to get to see the behind the scenes of the industry going back as far as the PS1, and further even, and what they did there going forward to the PS3, showing what they did right and what they did wrong there and then acknowleging their wrong attitude to form the PS4.

If we're taking about execs Sony's at least seem to understand their audience, MS seems disillusioned and have been throwing out blatant lies about power from the cloud making it 8x more powerful to 'discovering' extra bandwidth.

All I know is I'd know which side I'd sooner trust on the PR side of things.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree, the Xbox 360 in terms of online gaming experience was far superior. The PS3 has finished this generation really well showing some great graphics and titles but this has been a 6 to 7 year generation.

I've had both, I like Live, still do. Did I notice a difference between it and PSN? Slightly. Did I think cross game chat was worth €50 a year? Absolutely not.

Whatever restrictions there was with PSN on the PS3 will be gone now. Cross game chat, all that, is coming and more to PSN, as well as PS+ giving you free games and an incredible deal. I'm happy with this as I liked Live, so now I don't think MS will have an online advantage anymore this gen.

I think people will be questioning the value in it as no free games have been announced. It just seems like the same Live that's on the 360.

syboit

TNT2k_ wrote: »

In terms of games, yes I would say the PS3 won that round. Games with the graphical fidelity of God of War, Uncharted and The Last of Us aren't to be found on the xbox. The GPU was weaker, but the CPU was much stronger, only it was hampered by difficult programming and a RAM bottleneck. Not the case anymore for the PS4, though.

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

i feel ps3 starting winning the "console war" from 2010 onwards
before that it was a pile of ****e

Yup, the ps3 definitely seemed to have the legs in the end, the xbox one should have probably come out last year, as the 360 started to lag behind the ps3.

I'd probably still wait till I see some games before parting with the cash on a new console.

Richard Dower

Jaysus lads!...ye have gone feckin' mad!!....10 pages in 24 hours, wtf?

How about some real news?....i LOVE the idea of this, great addition - hope the PS4 implements this: http://ie.ign.com/articles/2013/07/01/xbox-one-kinect-will-scan-redemption-codes

FlyingIrishMan

Richard Dower wrote: »

Jaysus lads!...ye have gone feckin' mad!!....10 pages in 24 hours, wtf?

How about some real news?....i LOVE the idea of this, great addition - hope the PS4 implements this: http://ie.ign.com/articles/2013/07/01/xbox-one-kinect-will-scan-redemption-codes

Yeah, I saw that too. It was the first feature of Kinect that I thought I might actually use :P
I'd say its possible Sony will allow it to be done on the mobile app.

Otacon

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I'd say its possible Sony will allow it to be done on the mobile app.

It should already be on the Vita IMO.

bk

You all seem to be assuming that it is a given Sky Go will be coming to the X1 and that it will be exclusive!

Just because it is on the 360 doesn't mean it will be for the X1.

360/PS3 use a different architecture to the x1/PS4, so non of the existing apps will run on the x1/PS4.

That means for every single app, the media companies will need to decide if they want to develop a new app for the x1/PS4 or not.

While Sky Go was exclusive to 360 and RTE Player exclusive to PS3, this time around Sky Go could just as easily become exclusive to PS4 and RTE Player to X1.

The truth is we just don't know, at least until each of the media companies announce their plans for the next gen consoles.

I also doubt many of the media apps will be ready at launch. Netflix will probably be, but it might take a year or more before we see apps from the likes of the BBC, RTE, etc.

Now putting on my hat with years of experience in the cable TV and Satellite market, I can tell you that the market for video streaming services has radically changed since Sky Go first launched, it is now a much more competitive market. Because of this I expect all of the media streaming apps to go cross platform, there won't be any more HBO, Sky Go exclusivity.

Just like non of these apps are exclusive to iOS or Android on the mobile phone market, these media companies won't want to cut themselves off from 50% or more of the console market and hand customers to their competitors at Netflix and Amazon.

One aspect to consider is that I expect both the X1 and PS4 will have a fully HTML5 compliant browser. So even if native apps aren't available from day one, it should be possible to access at least some of these services via the browser.

ShiverinEskimo

bk wrote: »

You all seem to be assuming

You're doing plenty of that yourself on this thread in fairness. You predicted Sony will match the X1 for entertainment features in one post and then said Sony are solely focusing on games the next as opposed to MS who are focusing on entertainment.

Can't have it both ways.

bk

It is interesting to note that nowtv.com a Video On Demand service from Sky is available on both the PS3 and Xbox 360 (along with PC, Mac, Roku, Youview, iOS and Android):

http://help.nowtv.com/HelpArticle?id=kA1G0000000CtuKKAS&topicKey=Content|Content|4&selectedTopicKey=Content|Content|4

A clear sign of the direction Sky Go is likely to go in future.

gizmo

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Not exactly. There's the eSRAM factor which Anandtech explains below.

An important point to note is that the eSRAM will in no way make up for the loss of those CUs, it'll help make up for the overall memory bandwidth shortfall but once it hits the GPU then the PS4 will have a comfortable advantage.

As for the hoops required to take advantage of it, we're not talking SPU management here so I wouldn't worry too much about them. MS may be behind in terms of the tools and pipeline maturity compared to Sony but if the last gen was anything to go by they're still more than likely going to deliver.

Stone Deaf 4evr

bk wrote: »

It is interesting to note that nowtv.com a Video On Demand service from Sky is available on both the PS3 and Xbox 360 (along with PC, Mac, Roku, Youview, iOS and Android):

http://help.nowtv.com/HelpArticle?id=kA1G0000000CtuKKAS&topicKey=Content|Content|4&selectedTopicKey=Content|Content|4

A clear sign of the direction Sky Go is likely to go in future.

i posted something similar to this a while back but it seems to have gotten lost in a flurry of posts

http://www.gizmag.com/xbox-360-twc-live-tv/28117/

Its entirely possible that they have a similar deal in the pipeline with sky. Major Nelson even mentioned how he'd love to have sky tv when he was being interviewed by the girl from reddit.

They could still bring sky go to the other console, but like it is on the xbox 360 at the minute, i.e. a more pared back version of what you get through your set top box.

The only issue I have with all that programming coming over my broadband connection is the fact that a lot of people still have bandwith caps that could be reached fairly quickly with heavy use.

unless theres some sort of mega package in the works
sky tv + xbox live + sky broadband.....

liamog

I'd be surprised if Sky didn't end up being supported as a Set Top Box partner. Not sure if they'll go the bundling Xbox with subscription route but that should be a minimum.

bk

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

i posted something similar to this a while back but it seems to have gotten lost in a flurry of posts

http://www.gizmag.com/xbox-360-twc-live-tv/28117/

The service is already on Roku and is rumoured to be coming to Apple TV too:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/2/4487750/apple-time-warner-cable-nearing-deal-stream-cable-apple-tv

So it doesn't seem to be exclusive, which is exactly what I've been saying, these sorts of services will end up coming to all the major platforms, no more exclusives.

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

The only issue I have with all that programming coming over my broadband connection is the fact that a lot of people still have bandwith caps that could be reached fairly quickly with heavy use.

FYI Sky, Eircom and UPC all offer truly unlimited and uncapped broadband in Ireland now. It is pretty much becoming the norm for wired broadband in Ireland, finally!