Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

1ZRed

Pushtrak wrote: »

Consumer friendly, no. But they aren't going to put down something like that which is open ground for litigation. If there was some kind of weasel words in there which doesn't really say we'd be able to turn it off, there'd be a case to make. The burden of proof here is on those making the claim, i.e that the kinect will not be capable of being turned off.

So does this mean it can be plugged out? Because numorous websites have said no, you need it plugged in.. unless they're changing their policies yet again.

AlmightyCushion

1ZRed wrote: »

So does this mean it can be plugged out? Because numorous websites have said no, you need it plugged in.. unless they're changing their policies yet again.

It can't be unplugged but it can be disabled in the settings menu.

Pushtrak

http://www.latinospost.com/articles/23336/20130710/xbox-one-news-microsoft-reveals-comic-con-schedule-playable-demos.htm

Microsoft announced that Xbox 360 and Xbox One games will be playable at the Xbox booth (#100) on the main floor. These titles include Killer Instinct and Crytek's Ryse: Son of Rome, two of the games showcased at Microsoft's Xbox One presentation at E3.

More at the link. Oh, and in uh, other news...

FAILSAFE 00

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It can't be unplugged but it can be disabled in the settings menu.

i have the worlds best solution to the whole Kinect always on issue. It's going to be complex but bare with me.

STEP 1: When you are done playing, PLUG OUT YOUR XBOX
STEP 2: ahhhhh hmmm, that's kinda it.

Grayditch

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

i have the worlds best solution to the whole Kinect always on issue. It's going to be complex but bare with me.

STEP 1: When you are done playing, PLUG OUT YOUR XBOX
STEP 2: ahhhhh hmmm, that's kinda it.

Safe to say, you failed. People are concerned about it being on when they play, too.

Fingleberries

Grayditch wrote: »

Safe to say, you failed. People are concerned about it being on when they play, too.

In the same way that almost every laptop, smartphone and tablet sold in the last four years has a camera and a microphone. Could they be watching and listening, too?

Microsoft would be in for a world of legal trouble in many different areas of the world if they allow users to enable privacy settings (i.e. switch off) features of Kinect and then ignored that and left them enabled. I'd be pretty sure that they wouldn't want that sort of hassle.

The only reason they would have the Kinect tied to the Xbox One (i.e. a system requirement) is to have a standardised environment that developers will know what baseline they can develop for. If the system can be started without Kinect connected, then developers might have to program in checks "is it there?".

Grayditch

Yeah, but I don't care about any of that. I care about what I want as a consumer. And I want the Xbox to work when the camera is unplugged, or I'm not going to get one. Other people can do what they like.

riclad

HAVING the kinect is of no interest to me.
The ps4 is at least 20 per cent more powerful .
SO its likely i,ll get a ps4 .
The only xbox one specific game that interests me is titanfall ,and i,ll get it on the 360.
90 percent of games will be released on both consoles.
All these tv apps,kinect apps take up ram,
which reduces the ram avaidable for games.
ON my pc i can at least switch off services which i don,t use ,eg printing,bluetooth etc
There should be a button on the xbox dashboard ,
kinect off/on like wifi on /off on a phone.
MOST people use consoles for games ,using the standard controller
theres only 2 or 3 good kinect games on the 360, dance central.

I have never seen an action game ,fps that used kinect in any
effective manner ,thats better than using the controller.
THE kinect reminds me of the new wiiu control pad,
its a gimmick, bringing in overly complex or unnecessary control options.
Companys have a history of bringing out peripherals that may work ok,
but the general public simply do not use .

AT least if you want next generation games ,you will have a choice of the ps4 or xbox 1.

Meesared

riclad wrote: »

HAVING the kinect is of no interest to me.
The ps4 is at least 20 per cent more powerful .
SO its likely i,ll get a ps4 .
The only xbox one specific game that interests me is titanfall ,and i,ll get it on the 360.
90 percent of games will be released on both consoles.
All these tv apps,kinect apps take up ram,
which reduces the ram avaidable for games.
ON my pc i can at least switch off services which i don,t use ,eg printing,bluetooth etc
There should be a button on the xbox dashboard ,
kinect off/on like wifi on /off on a phone.
MOST people use consoles for games ,using the standard controller
theres only 2 or 3 good kinect games on the 360, dance central.

I have never seen an action game ,fps that used kinect in any
effective manner ,thats better than using the controller.
THE kinect reminds me of the new wiiu control pad,
its a gimmick, bringing in overly complex or unnecessary control options.
Companys have a history of bringing out peripherals that may work ok,
but the general public simply do not use .

AT least if you want next generation games ,you will have a choice of the ps4 or xbox 1.

Not sure why but I'm reading this like a poem XD

Stone Deaf 4evr

Grayditch wrote: »

Yeah, but I don't care about any of that. I care about what I want as a consumer. And I want the Xbox to work when the camera is unplugged, or I'm not going to get one. Other people can do what they like.

thats the great thing about being a consumer, you dont have to buy a product if you dont like it. neither does a corporation have to provide something that caters soley to the needs or whims or individuals.
the product is what the product is. if people dont like it, theres always the ps4 / wiiU

Grayditch

Yeah. Definitely getting a PS4. I was going to try get both, but not now. Shame, I like a lot about the new Xbox. I've always hated Microsoft, and I'm glad gamers expressing their concerns have made them think about the way they go about things. It worked.

Hopefully someone will release a plug thing that makes the Xbox thinks it's connected to the Kineckt. Then maybe I'll reconsider.

ShiverinEskimo

Fingleberries wrote: »

In the same way that almost every laptop, smartphone and tablet sold in the last four years has a camera and a microphone. Could they be watching and listening, too?

Absolutely. I mentioned this earlier in the thread. Anyone who owns a smartphone and is worried about Kinect privacy issues is a hypocrite.

One of the main features of any new Android phone is Google Now. These are some of the permissions you have to agree to as per the play store:

I've highlighted some of the more outrageous ones in bold.

Allows the app to get your precise location using the Global Positioning System (GPS)

Allows the app to send SMS messages. This may result in unexpected charges.

Allows the app to write to SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to read SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to create network sockets and use custom network protocols.

Allows the app to read all calendar events stored on your device, including those of friends or co-workers.

Allows the app to read personal profile information stored on your device

Allows the app to call phone numbers without your intervention.

Allows the app to read the history of all URLs that the Browser has visited, and all of the Browser's bookmarks.

Allows the app to read your device's call log, including data about incoming and outgoing calls.

Allows the app to record audio.

Allows the app to read data about your contacts stored on your device, including the frequency with which you've called, emailed, or communicated in other ways with specific individuals.

Apple have similar rules about their apps. Both have apps that can and will use your phones camera at will.

So everyone who is up in arms about Kinects privacy features should burn their smartphone right now, or continue life as a hypocrite, or find other sticks to beat the X1 with.

Grayditch

If you snipped the wire on the camera on your smartphone, the phone would still work. So, it's not the same. It's all about asking why it needs to be connected to work. Ropey with a capital R, but that's Microsoft for you.

ShiverinEskimo

Grayditch wrote: »

If you snipped the wire on the camera on your smartphone, the phone would still work.

And who on earth would ever do that willingly?

elfy4eva

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

And who on earth would ever do that willingly?

The point he is making, is that if you
were deathly concerned about people
peering at you through your phones camera,
then you could remove the cameras connection
and the phone would still work.

Grayditch

You probably wouldn't. It's besides the point. People have concerns. Concerns that are becoming deciding factors.

ShiverinEskimo

Grayditch wrote: »

You probably wouldn't. It's besides the point. People have concerns. Concerns that are becoming deciding factors.

I'm just wondering why those same concerns that are preventing them from buying an X1 didn't prevent them buying a smartphone. That's all.

Grayditch

The concern for a lot, including myself isn't about being spyed on, it's being used as market research by such an advanced tool. They can use all the info on what games I play and shows I watch, that's fine, that's to be expected, but that camera has incredible potential to be very intrusive. I don't trust Microsoft not to use it as an advanced information gathering tool.

"You cannot disconnect it" I find that concerning.

drumswan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I'm just wondering why those same concerns that are preventing them from buying an X1 didn't prevent them buying a smartphone. That's all.

The Google now app you quoted above isnt mandatory...

ShiverinEskimo

Grayditch wrote: »

The concern for a lot, including myself isn't about being spyed on, it's being used as market research by such an advanced tool. They can use all the info on what games I play and shows I watch, that's fine, that's to be expected, but that camera has incredible potential to be very intrusive. I don't trust Microsoft not to use it as an advanced information gathering tool.

Agree with all of this. But trust me, Google's and Apple's and Co's intentions are exactly the same. Google drove around sniffing people's wifi while photographing every house and pedestrian in sight. Apple gave birth to smartphone data harvesting with the iPhone. Sony installed unsecure rootkit to people's PCs with every CD that was put into a CD-ROM drive.

Like I said previously - don't hate the player, hate the game.

drumswan wrote: »

The Google now app you quoted above isnt mandatory...

It's an example of what apps are capable of. Go and look at all the apps you have on your smartphone on the associated permissions. I just picked a fairly popular one as an example but trust me, Facebook, Chrome, Twitter, et al are all beefed out with sniffing features.

Facebook - "Allows the app to take pictures and videos with the camera. This permission allows the app to use the camera at any time without your confirmation."

TNT2k_

Fingleberries wrote: »

In the same way that almost every laptop, smartphone and tablet sold in the last four years has a camera and a microphone. Could they be watching and listening, too?

Microsoft would be in for a world of legal trouble in many different areas of the world if they allow users to enable privacy settings (i.e. switch off) features of Kinect and then ignored that and left them enabled. I'd be pretty sure that they wouldn't want that sort of hassle.

The only reason they would have the Kinect tied to the Xbox One (i.e. a system requirement) is to have a standardised environment that developers will know what baseline they can develop for. If the system can be started without Kinect connected, then developers might have to program in checks "is it there?".

Microsoft has stated that the X1 is built around advertising which takes advantage of kinect to target ads towards you. Why they are so enthusiastic about advertising is beyond me, just means more money to them, regardless if you're paying for a service which by right should be free of ads, otherwise the service should be free. It's only greed.

The fact that certain aspects of kinect can be turned off, even the entire thing apparently, but it still has to be plugged in is ridiculous, plain and simple. Adding a tiny bit of code to check if it's there would be so simple, so that's not the reason why it has to be continuously plugged in.

MS needs to stop hiding away and answer all these questions. It's becoming more than irritating with all the rumours and speculation, which is only hurting them and their brand by extension.

drumswan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Facebook - "Allows the app to take pictures and videos with the camera. This permission allows the app to use the camera at any time without your confirmation."

You think people who are concerned with privacy deliberately install facebook?

ShiverinEskimo

TNT2k_ wrote: »

Microsoft has stated that the X1 is built around advertising which takes advantage of kinect to target ads towards you. Why they are so enthusiastic about advertising is beyond me, just means more money to them, regardless if you're paying for a service which by right should be free of ads, otherwise the service should be free. It's only greed.

I don't think MS ever stated the above. And the kinect relationship to ads seems to be ways in which to interact with certain ads. A link was posted here filled with speculation as to what kinect 'could' do with ads but that was purely an opinion and discussed possible potentials.

TNT2k_ wrote: »

The fact that certain aspects of kinect can be turned off, even the entire thing apparently, but it still has to be plugged in is ridiculous, plain and simple. Adding a tiny bit of code to check if it's there would be so simple, so that's not the reason why it has to be continuously plugged in.

MS needs to stop hiding away and answer all these questions. It's becoming more than irritating with all the rumours and speculation, which is only hurting them and their brand by extension.

This is something I wholeheartedly agree with - the PR campaign from MS has been nothing short of an abomination. I think that change in project manager half way through probably doesn't help and maybe they are working on getting a clear and proper message together in fear of messing it up further with tidbits.

For a company that size, with a marketing and PR department that outweighs most companies outright the communication has been abysmal. If we have to wait for the likes of Digital Foundry and game review sights to spill all the information then so be it.

ShiverinEskimo

drumswan wrote: »

You think people who are concerned with privacy deliberately install facebook?

I think the people who are concerned with privacy in regards to the X1 aren't concerned with privacy elsewhere as it's quite clear this is largely a stick for beating MS with from the select few PS buyers on here. But that's just what I think.

I'll put it like this though - basically most apps on a smartphone come with massive privacy concerns so unless they are using their smartphone like a dumbphone (which begs the question - why bother with a smartphone at all) they are exposing themselves to similar privacy issues as we've seen speculated on with kinect.

TNT2k_

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I don't think MS ever stated the above. And the kinect relationship to ads seems to be ways in which to interact with certain ads. A link was posted here filled with speculation as to what kinect 'could' do with ads but that was purely an opinion and discussed possible potentials.

They have stated that advertising will be a big part of the X1 "experience" in an interview with stciktwiddlers;

An Xbox employee has commented as to how the architecture of the Xbox One dashboard has been created “with advertising in mind”. The team also gave us an exclusive insight into what the future of advertising on the Xbox One will and could look like using Kinect, Smartglass and personalised information.

“With the new Xbox One, the technology and Kinect has improved a lot,” commented the Technical Account Manager for Xbox LIVE Advertising, “so that actually the voice recognition, the way you speak to your Xbox and the transition between gaming and watching TV is a lot smoother, and hopefully we can transpire that into advertising that we do.”

On Xbox, the ad is part of the actual experience, it’s not something that is outside. The only difference is that the advertisement we have is quite small and not disruptive so people are not aware of clicking on the banners because they know this is a part of the whole experience on the dash,

They wholeheartedly plan on using kinect with their advertising efforts. This annoys me in two ways, the first being that paying for a service is not enough revenue for them, they must flood it with ads anyway like any free service, only you're still paying for it, and secondly, kinect -which you have no choice in purchasing it or not, will be used for advertising. You can't even plug it out if you don't want it either.

This is something I wholeheartedly agree with - the PR campaign from MS has been nothing short of an abomination. I think that change in project manager half way through probably doesn't help and maybe they are working on getting a clear and proper message together in fear of messing it up further with tidbits.

For a company that size, with a marketing and PR department that outweighs most companies outright the communication has been abysmal. If we have to wait for the likes of Digital Foundry and game review sights to spill all the information then so be it.

I hope they are getting their act together but it just goes to show what they were gunning for and they genuinely didn't expect any backlash at all, that's what's totally caused all this chaos with them because they don't know what to say because they don't know that themselves. The constant revision of policies is testament to that.

They've gotten a new head of the xbox division planed, but she's no experience in the gaming market and was head of windows 8, which did not go well. My problem is they don't have anyone who understands gaming and the gaming market working at xbox at all the way Sony and Nintendo have. That very fact lead to the X1, which had they not changed their policies, would've been a disastrous console, but it did go to highlight how out of touch they are with what people want. Hopefully that'll change, even if they need to learn that the hard way.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I think the people who are concerned with privacy in regards to the X1 aren't concerned with privacy elsewhere as it's quite clear this is largely a stick for beating MS with from the select few PS buyers on here. But that's just what I think.

I'll put it like this though - basically most apps on a smartphone come with massive privacy concerns so unless they are using their smartphone like a dumbphone (which begs the question - why bother with a smartphone at all) they are exposing themselves to similar privacy issues as we've seen speculated on with kinect.

It's not just PS buyers at all. Everyone was up in arms about the privacy issues. Germany and Australia threatened to ban it on grounds of privacy invasion. All those people aren't just PS buyers.

You have a point with apps, but those are optional of you want to download them. Anybody who likes kinect won't really care about the privacy issues, but many who don't like it and won't use it will not be happy about something they should be able to plug out if it's not getting used for games and only serves to collect data from you. The whole mandatory kinect situation isn't helping all of this.

Grayditch

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I think the people who are concerned with privacy in regards to the X1 aren't concerned with privacy elsewhere as it's quite clear this is largely a stick for beating MS with from the select few PS buyers on here. But that's just what I think.

But this is s thread for talking about the Xbox concerns, not Google (the worst of the lot) Facebook etc, so maybe that's why those concerns aren't cropping up in here.

If the Kinect privacy issues are a stick being used to beat MS with, then the excuse of "they're all as bad" is a flimsy shield to defend it.

Whether people are being hypocritical or not, at least they're coming around to being concerned about at least one company, and in fairness MS isn't a bad place to start.

ShiverinEskimo

In regards to kinect - while it has to be connected or 'on' to work. Does it have to 'see' you to work?

Would leaving an obstacle in front of the camera satisfy the requirements while still giving you the audio functions be kosher or does it need to have at least one user in view?

Richard Dower

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

In regards to kinect - while it has to be connected or 'on' to work. Does it have to 'see' you to work?

Would leaving an obstacle in front of the camera satisfy the requirements while still giving you the audio functions be kosher or does it need to have at least one user in view?

its been said the kinect scans thr room to see how many people are there, if a game is licenced for two people and you have four in the room the game stops and asks for you to pay extra.

2Mad2BeMad

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

In regards to kinect - while it has to be connected or 'on' to work. Does it have to 'see' you to work?

Would leaving an obstacle in front of the camera satisfy the requirements while still giving you the audio functions be kosher or does it need to have at least one user in view?

i think i remember seeing an article saying it needs to see you for you to play a game

im in work so cant find the link


but im looking forward to the xboxone, new kinect sounds awesome :P (i couldnt care if microsoft are spying on me , im hardly doing anything illegal:P and as if they care what my sex life is like :pac:)
hell if i see a video of me on the internet, well at least il be getting a nice amount of cash from law suits so win win really :pac:

Richard Dower

http://www.slashgear.com/xbox-one-prototypes-show-microsofts-outlandish-3d-printing-journey-11290015/



http://www.slashgear.com/xbox-one-controller-gets-deep-dive-treatment-06285219/