Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

AlmightyCushion

Richard Dower wrote: »

its been said the kinect scans thr room to see how many people are there, if a game is licenced for two people and you have four in the room the game stops and asks for you to pay extra.

No it doesn't. Microsoft filled a patent for something like that but big tech companies do that all the time even for things they have no plan on implementing. Where have Microsoft stated the Xbox will do this?

drumswan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I'll put it like this though - basically most apps on a smartphone come with massive privacy concerns

You can opt-out of those apps, you cant opt out of Kinect. Simple enough.

Meesared

Richard Dower wrote: »

its been said the kinect scans thr room to see how many people are there, if a game is licenced for two people and you have four in the room the game stops and asks for you to pay extra.

Never gonna happen, at least not anytime soon. Too impractical

Richard Dower

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/11/4513490/xbox-one-is-an-entirely-justifiable-business-expense-says-microsoft

FAILSAFE 00

Grayditch wrote: »

Safe to say, you failed. People are concerned about it being on when they play, too.

Ah well, can't please everyone I guess.

The same people no doubt giving tonnes of information to Facebook every single day about their lives, family pictures, etc. when they use the Internet they are also giving away information.

This is the future whether people like it or not. Cameras that read us and our gestures. Lots of new tv's are including motion control via camera which will be developed further.

Personally I think it's all a bit OTT. People think they are buying a Skynet Xbox One that will terminate them. I have no problem with the Kinect being on when I am using it and plugging out the Xbox when I am not. Microsoft will get some great research from my gaming, pretty much a list of profanities while I am gaming and they can try to sell me a bar of soap for my mouth on the xbox dashboard.

Richard Dower

xbone ads target good looking gamers.......:eek:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=620021

TNT2k_

Richard Dower wrote: »

http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/11/4513490/xbox-one-is-an-entirely-justifiable-business-expense-says-microsoft

Wait, it ships with Office Web apps?

I cannot wait to write up my word documents while playing battlefield 4, and maybe make a skype call in the middle of all that too! That's multitasking for ya :pac:

Meesared

Richard Dower wrote: »

xbone ads target good looking gamers.......



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=620021

Speculation, funny speculation though, the current Xbox changes recommendations based on games played, and I'm sure the One will do the exact same. Can't see the Kinect being used for targeted advertising, too many variables that could result in inappropriate ads.

TNT2k_

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Ah well, can't please everyone I guess.

The same people no doubt giving tonnes of information to Facebook every single day about their lives, family pictures, etc. when they use the Internet they are also giving away information.

This is the future whether people like it or not. Cameras that read us and our gestures. Lots of new tv's are including motion control via camera which will be developed further.

Personally I think it's all a bit OTT. People think they are buying a Skynet Xbox One that will terminate them. I have no problem with the Kinect being on when I am using it and plugging out the Xbox when I am not. Microsoft will get some great research from my gaming, pretty much a list of profanities while I am gaming and they can try to sell me a bar of soap for my mouth on the xbox dashboard.

I personally don't think gestures will ever have an significant place in proper gaming. Using your hands outstretched to steer a car? No thanks. Kinect is just to attract the families and casuals the way the Wii did. I think kinect is very much improved and can do real stuff, but when it comes done to it, controller is king. Motion controls never caught on despite all big 3 gunning for that market, even Nintendo didn't make it centre focus with the Wii U and they had the wiimote standardised -much like many are saying here that that will save kinect. I personally don't believe it.

You think gestures are the future because other devices are implementing them in, but that doesn't work for gaming which needs precise control and loads of input options which only a controller can give. If we didn't need that fine control then mobile games would be the future, but that's not the case and that'll never happen.

What's interesting about this app and facebook talk is that you alone agree to those policies, so it's just you that gets tracked and your info gets used. That's all well and good since you agreed to that. With kinect, you might own and agree to those policies but others in the room haven't, and if kinect is using their info to target ads then that's not right.

ShiverinEskimo

Grayditch wrote: »

But this is s thread for talking about the Xbox concerns, not Google (the worst of the lot) Facebook etc, so maybe that's why those concerns aren't cropping up in here.

If the Kinect privacy issues are a stick being used to beat MS with, then the excuse of "they're all as bad" is a flimsy shield to defend it.

Whether people are being hypocritical or not, at least they're coming around to being concerned about at least one company, and in fairness MS isn't a bad place to start.

You have to wonder about the sudden motivations/mobilisation of privacy advocates though. If you deny there's an anti-X1 or anti-MS agenda behind some people's sudden concern about their privacy then fair enough but I think we both know people's outrage seems to be a touch exaggerated.

I also doubt their allegiance to other companies or gadgets is going to be tested thanks to their new-found privacy concerns.

TNT2k_ wrote: »

I personally don't think gestures will ever have an significant place in proper gaming. Using your hands outstretched to steer a car? No thanks. Kinect is just to attract the families and casuals the way the Wii did. I think kinect is very much improved and can do real stuff, but when it comes done to it, controller is king. Motion controls never caught on despite all big 3 gunning for that market, even Nintendo didn't make it centre focus with the Wii U and they had the wiimote standardised -much like many are saying here that that will save kinect. I personally don't believe it.

One of the most interesting things I've seen so far is the heart-rate monitoring capabilities. If it's true they'll be able to ramp up the tension/atmospherics according to your heart-rate then that will bring gaming to another level. Everyone's favourite parts of games are when their heart is racing. I'd love to see what they can do with it.

Grayditch

Well, people can wonder about people's motives as a side note, but people shouldn't be shunned or made feel like tinfoil hat weirdos for not wanting a hi-tech camera in their living room that needs to be active even for non motion games. This wouldn't be half the issue it is if you could unplug it and continue to play games, I'm sure of it. It wasn't a big deal with Kinect 1 or PS Eye, but as soon as someone reads "No you can't unplug it" in once place and "It can read your mood" in another, people have the right to be suspicious and piss and moan until it's changed.

Grayditch

Also, Microsoft are big boys. Being bashed on the internet is something they'll just have to deal with if they continue to disrupt the flow of what a lot of gamers find acceptable. Enjoy your power while we still have some!

Pushtrak

Grayditch wrote: »

Safe to say, you failed. People are concerned about it being on when they play, too.

Grayditch wrote: »

The concern for a lot, including myself isn't about being spyed on, it's being used as market research by such an advanced tool. They can use all the info on what games I play and shows I watch, that's fine, that's to be expected, but that camera has incredible potential to be very intrusive. I don't trust Microsoft not to use it as an advanced information gathering tool.

"You cannot disconnect it" I find that concerning.

I'd like if you'd expand on this a bit. What do you expect exactly? You have a tshirt from somewhere and you get ads from that place, you have a type of drink seen on camera and you get ads for that? Is it that type of thing or how exactly are you imagining the kinect to be used here? Would like to see the discussion be more specific than abstractions.

TNT2k_ wrote: »

Microsoft has stated that the X1 is built around advertising which takes advantage of kinect to target ads towards you. Why they are so enthusiastic about advertising is beyond me, just means more money to them, regardless if you're paying for a service which by right should be free of ads, otherwise the service should be free. It's only greed.

I just went to get some links on this stuff...
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/xbox-one-has-advertising-and-kinect-on-its-mind-1164251

Last month, Microsoft announced that the Xbox One will use the Kinect for a new type of advertising, called NUads, by integrating gestures and voice control.

The company has already started using it on the Xbox 360, which Microsoft said will "reinvent" television advertising, but it has some more plans for the Xbox One.

But an Xbox Live advertising developer told the website that game developers have a different set of code and system than advertisers, who are more limited with a system that is designed to protect users.

"The company is very keen on protecting the user from any sort of abuse, so we can't do certain things," he said.

Reportedly, the Xbox One will have ads integrated into its dashboard, similar to native ads on the Xbox 360

Earlier this year, Microsoft filed a patent that would allow Xbox One users to score achievements if they watched certain videos or even ads.
"To increase interactive viewing and encourage a user to watch one or more particular items of video content, awards and achievements may be tied to those items of video content," the patent said.

More at the link.

TNT2k_ wrote: »

They've gotten a new head of the xbox division planed, but she's no experience in the gaming market and was head of windows 8, which did not go well.

She also has Internet Explorer 3 and 4 to diminish her rep. Not exactly something that would be a source of optimism.

It's not just PS buyers at all. Everyone was up in arms about the privacy issues. Germany and Australia threatened to ban it on grounds of privacy invasion. All those people aren't just PS buyers.

How do you imagine MS will respond to such things? By saying F em?

Pushtrak

http://www.oxm.co.uk/58158/oculus-rift-boss-would-love-to-release-on-xbox-one-but-worried-about-console-life-cycles/

Stone Deaf 4evr

Also, saying you pay for a service means you shouldn't get ads is ridiculous. if you pay for sky, you get ads coming out your ears, you go to a soccer match, you get ads all along the pitch. you play games, you get ads - remember the duracell and verizon product placement in Alan Wake?

personally I'd rather have the ads up front and on the dashboard than scattered through my play space, breaking the spell of how immersed I am in the game.
I always find it really jarring to see real world brands in games (unless they're sports or racing games).

TNT2k_

Pushtrak wrote: »

I just went to get some links on this stuff...
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/xbox-one-has-advertising-and-kinect-on-its-mind-1164251

More at the link.

Very interesting! Only because that interview is from the 8th of July, while the interview from sticktwiddlers is from the 28th of June.

I take it PR damage control was in full effect in the second interview to dismiss all that -another possible policy change yet again to make kinect less invasive?

She also has Internet Explorer 3 and 4 to diminish her rep. Not exactly something that would be a source of optimism.

How do you imagine MS will respond to such things? By saying F em?

By doing nothing but overhauling everything they'd originally planned in order to avoid as much negative or legal attention as possible. It just seems like they fucked up in every conceivable area without even realising the impact all this would have. That shows very little understanding of the market you want to achieve well in.

I think if the consoles were coming out a year later they'd be better off to scrap everything about the X1 and start afresh. More emphasis on gaming, TV features can come second, no mandatory kinect, more competitive pricing and to be clear about their message that this is a games machine first and foremost that won't only focus on gimmicks to get the Wii's past audience, but that is an option if you want it. That would end well for them if they went down that route.

That won't happen obviously, but at least they are making changes now as apposed to launching with their original plan because that would've utterly tanked and damaged their brand.
I'm amazed though that they keep changing little pieces here and there instead of knowing your market and knowing what to change instead of waiting for the next big fault people are giving out about and only changing after. Things are all over the place, which isn't helped by them saying nothing at all and telling lies about specs, only contradict themselves two days later again.

They'd want to sort things out very quickly and get their direction clear and be open and confident about. I think the secrecy is what's doing the most damage because there's so many people taking advantage of that and making rumours up.

Grayditch

Pushtrak wrote: »

I'd like if you'd expand on this a bit. What do you expect exactly? You have a tshirt from somewhere and you get ads from that place, you have a type of drink seen on camera and you get ads for that? Is it that type of thing or how exactly are you imagining the kinect to be used here? Would like to see the discussion be more specific than abstractions.

What I expect are not the same as my concerns. I am concerned about what developers were calling "mood reading". I'm concerned about the ability that is being discussed that it could scan logos in a room to use as advert fodder. It could count the people in the room why you play, I just don't like that. It could gather a lot of info that is none of anyone's business.

I simply don't trust Microsoft enough to put that camera in my room, that's my prerogative. I don't have to be able to prove what it can or will do and people can debunk all of these things in a lot of ways, but how about just letting me disconnect it?! That's what I want. I must stress I don't care what other people wan't, I'm not telling them to "join my crusade" I'm just giving my reasons that as of now, I'm not getting this machine.

TNT2k_

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Also, saying you pay for a service means you shouldn't get ads is ridiculous. if you pay for sky, you get ads coming out your ears, you go to a soccer match, you get ads all along the pitch. you play games, you get ads - remember the duracell and verizon product placement in Alan Wake?

personally I'd rather have the ads up front and on the dashboard than scattered through my play space, breaking the spell of how immersed I am in the game.
I always find it really jarring to see real world brands in games (unless they're sports or racing games).

You get ads in games? News to me, because any game I paid for didn't have ads in them. It's interesting that that is a Microsoft game that you paid for yet still has ads in it.

Free Apps in the AppStore have payment options that get rid of ads. They can't keep giving it away for free without advertising to help them, but once you give them money you're supporting them so they don't need to.

Look at services like netflix, you pay for it and there are no ads to be seen. Broadcasters like Sky have a greedy system in place, but the market is shifting to VOD and if you pay for that service, there won't be ads because people are putting up with it less and less.

I think it's ridiculous that someone would bend over so readily and defend ads if you're paying for a service, especially if a competing service like PSN supports no ads and is free.
It's that same thinking that "it's not so bad" that lead to PS+ being mandatory now because they saw people were willing to pay for something that was free everywhere else. I hope they don't go as far as MS with ads because I'll pissed off if they do and won't support it.

Your biggest voice is your wallet. If you happily put up will all this they'll only keep pushing more and more stuff on you because you keep supporting them regardless. Had nobody caused an uproar you'd have an always online console with DRM too.

TNT2k_

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

One of the most interesting things I've seen so far is the heart-rate monitoring capabilities. If it's true they'll be able to ramp up the tension/atmospherics according to your heart-rate then that will bring gaming to another level. Everyone's favourite parts of games are when their heart is racing. I'd love to see what they can do with it.

That does look very interesting and I could see it working well in a survival horror game for example. How it works in the real world is another story. I hope it does, but I'm just thinking how a camera could be accurate enough at gauging heart rate to have a consistent game experience. It's kind of like the six-axis. It was to add to the game, but in reality it didn't add much at all because it wasn't quite accurate enough. Time will tell though!

Meesared

Grayditch wrote: »

What I expect are not the same as my concerns. I am concerned about what developers were calling "mood reading". I'm concerned about the ability that is being discussed that it could scan logos in a room to use as advert fodder. It could count the people in the room why you play, I just don't like that. It could gather a lot of info that is none of anyone's business.

I simply don't trust Microsoft enough to put that camera in my room, that's my prerogative. I don't have to be able to prove what it can or will do and people can debunk all of these things in a lot of ways, but how about just letting me disconnect it?! That's what I want. I must stress I don't care what other people wan't, I'm not telling them to "join my crusade" I'm just giving my reasons that as of now, I'm not getting this machine.

To be honest given your previous comments on here, Kinect or not, I seriously doubt you would be getting an Xbox One anyway.

Grayditch

Meesared wrote: »

To be honest given your previous comments on here, Kinect or not, I seriously doubt you would be getting an Xbox One anyway.

Don't know why it matters to you, but, why not? I hate Microsoft, but I still play my Xbox 360. Not as much latey as all the good exclusives dried up. I would have had no problem picking up both the XB1 and PS4, as I had planned to when they were announced, before this weird obligatory camera.

Meesared

Grayditch wrote: »

Don't know why it matters to you, but, why not? I hate Microsoft, but I still play my Xbox 360. Not as much latey as all the good exclusives dried up. I would have had no problem picking up both the XB1 and PS4, as I had planned to when they were announced, before this weird obligatory camera.

It doesn't really matter to me, just pointing out the irony

Grayditch

Well it's not irony, but ok.

Stone Deaf 4evr

TNT2k_ wrote: »

You get ads in games? News to me, because any game I paid for didn't have ads in them. It's interesting that that is a Microsoft game that you paid for yet still has ads in it.

well done on flying the anti microsoft flag, a quick google will get you this
http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/articles/8-most-blatant-product-placements-video-games

Free Apps in the AppStore have payment options that get rid of ads. They can't keep giving it away for free without advertising to help them, but once you give them money you're supporting them so they don't need to.

yes, but thats the whole premise of the agreement.

Look at services like netflix, you pay for it and there are no ads to be seen. Broadcasters like Sky have a greedy system in place, but the market is shifting to VOD and if you pay for that service, there won't be ads because people are putting up with it less and less.
this depends entirely on the service, and the price you are willing to pay, even then, you're still going to have in-programme product placement - the iron man series of films is like an ad for audi, and tv shows are constantly showing phones, computers etc.

I think it's ridiculous that someone would bend over so readily and defend ads if you're paying for a service, especially if a competing service like PSN supports no ads and is free. Im not defending the ads, I'm just pointing out that its unreasonable to expect something as being ad free if it hasnt been touted as such. Im not familiar with the PSN, but i'm sure they advertise their own products?

It's that same thinking that "it's not so bad" that lead to PS+ being mandatory now because they saw people were willing to pay for something that was free everywhere else. I hope they don't go as far as MS with ads because I'll pissed off if they do and won't support it.
PS plus is mandatory now as they need to recoup money on two fronts - building the infrastructure to a level where it competes with xbox live and the party chat etc. we could argue all day about them being equal, but any reasonable person would have to concede that xbox live is superior from a network standpoint. The ps4 on paper has to be taking more of a hit on the cost per unit loss than the xbox one- they've already dropped the ps eye to cut costs. that DDR5 ram aint cheap. I admire your principles on not supporting advertising on the ps4 (which i assume will be your console of choice). I've a feeling you'll be a beacon of idealism as you shut off your console once you see that first ad roll across your screen. Me? I'll be too busy ignoring ads and playing games.

Your biggest voice is your wallet. If you happily put up will all this they'll only keep pushing more and more stuff on you because you keep supporting them regardless. Had nobody caused an uproar you'd have an always online console with DRM too.

Agreed, your wallet is how you vote in consumer matters. but as with all democracies, the majority decides the status quo. and I think the amount of people that opt out over advertising is going to be minimal.

Fingleberries

TNT2k_ wrote: »

You get ads in games? News to me, because any game I paid for didn't have ads in them. It's interesting that that is a Microsoft game that you paid for yet still has ads in it.

I think he's talking more about things like billboards in Burnout Paradise / Rainbow 6 Vegas, etc. That sort of thing ... Not as if you're running and gunning as Master Chief and suddenly the action stops "End of Part One" and a "Try Mentos. Mentos Fresh and Full of Life" video plays, followed by "Part Two" and the game continuing.

Sometimes it can work seeing real brands in a game rather than makey-upey ones (once it's not overdone), I think EA, Activision and Ubisoft all toyed with it for a while as a way to earn extra money by selling billboard spaces in-game. They all abandoned it after a while, though.

Although I do remember getting a shock when a 'Vote Fianna Fáil' poster came up in one game I was playing back in the day.

stevenmu

TNT2k_ wrote: »

I think it's ridiculous that someone would bend over so readily and defend ads if you're paying for a service, especially if a competing service like PSN supports no ads and is free.

One of the first things they talked about at the PS4 launch was targeted ads right on the desktop. There's no point pretending this is an Xbox only thing, or a Microsoft only thing. When the ad men come calling with big bags of money, no body is sending them away.

(and that includes VOD etc as well, it's only a matter of time before Netflix caves and there's ads all over it)

Stone Deaf 4evr

stevenmu wrote: »

One of the first things they talked about at the PS4 launch was targeted ads right on the desktop. There's no point pretending this is an Xbox only thing, or a Microsoft only thing. When the ad men come calling with big bags of money, no body is sending them away.

(and that includes VOD etc as well, it's only a matter of time before Netflix caves and there's ads all over it)

have you seen house of cards? an original netfix series - theres an xbox in it, they all use the same type of phone, etc. etc.

Grayditch

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

have you seen house of cards? an original netfix series - theres an xbox in it, they all use the same type of phone, etc. etc.

The bit where he picks up the kid's Vita and says' "Is that the Playstation Vita, I have to get one of these"... I mean. I have a Vita... and I was enjoying the show, but wow. Just wow. Turned out awful and I'm not sure if I ever got past that scene, ha.

elfy4eva

Grayditch wrote: »

The bit where he picks up the kid's Vita and says' "Is that the Playstation Vita, I have to get one of these"... I mean. I have a Vita... and I was enjoying the show, but wow. Just wow. Turned out awful and I'm not sure if I ever got past that scene, ha.

Aw product placement is disgraceful these days, was watching Hawaii five-0 out of passing interest the other day. They all communicate off Tablets through Windows live messenger, and they make sure u see every bit of those logos!

Stone Deaf 4evr

Grayditch wrote: »

The bit where he picks up the kid's Vita and says' "Is that the Playstation Vita, I have to get one of these"... I mean. I have a Vita... and I was enjoying the show, but wow. Just wow. Turned out awful and I'm not sure if I ever got past that scene, ha.

LOL EXACTLY!

here for anyone who hasnt seen it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHCqw23zU_o