Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

Varik

Hopefully the One get's some form of the family sharing back, Sony are changing their system for the worse on this so it's now far more restrictive.

Pushtrak

What will Sony be doing, Varik?

TNT2k_

Varik wrote: »

Hopefully the One get's some form of the family sharing back, Sony are changing their system for the worse on this so it's now far more restrictive.

The One's family sharing was a glorified demo sharing plan where 10 accounts could download the game but would be restricted to an hour of that game before a prompt would arrive telling you to purchase the game to continue. It was highly overrated. But then again, they weren't clear at all on that and refused to talk about it.

@Pushtrak, Sony's original sharing policy, as much as I'm aware of, was that 5 consoles could share their game libraries, so I could have my account on 5 consoles and download my games onto their console and they could then play it. That was changed to two consoles because it was a system that would be very abused, as nice as it sounded in fairness.

With the PS4, you can have a few accounts on the one console you own and those accounts all share the game without having to have the owner of the content signed it, like the PS3, but if you were to go to mate's house and put your account on his PS4 you'd have to have the original owner signed in to play those games. It's exactly like the model MS had where one person could only be signed into the game at one time out of those 10 people, but these would be the full game, not a demo.

This is all open to further clarification on both parts as well I should note.

Varik

Pushtrak wrote: »

What will Sony be doing, Varik?

Right now you can have 2 PS3s active on an account, on these you can use any of the games downloaded to the PS3s with any of the accounts. With this I could download a game to both my PS3s and use any other accounts to play the game offline on those consoles.

Sony are moving to the same as the 360 or at least close, with 1 active PS4 and 1 account. Another user can use their account to play on the "home" console while you need to be online and using the purchasing account on any other console.

PS3 A; any account, offline/online
PS3 B; any account, offline/online

PS4 A; any account, offline/online
PS4 B; 1 account, online

FAILSAFE 00

TNT2k_ wrote: »

The One's family sharing was a glorified demo sharing plan where 10 accounts could download the game but would be restricted to an hour of that game before a prompt would arrive telling you to purchase the game to continue. It was highly overrated. But then again, they weren't clear at all on that and refused to talk about it.

@Pushtrak, Sony's original sharing policy, as much as I'm aware of, was that 5 consoles could share their game libraries, so I could have my account on 5 consoles and download my games onto their console and they could then play it. That was changed to two consoles because it was a system that would be very abused, as nice as it sounded in fairness.

With the PS4, you can have a few accounts on the one console you own and those accounts all share the game without having to have the owner of the content signed it, like the PS3, but if you were to go to mate's house and put your account on his PS4 you'd have to have the original owner signed in to play those games. It's exactly like the model MS had where one person could only be signed into the game at one time out of those 10 people, but these would be the full game, not a demo.

This is all open to further clarification on both parts as well I should note.

Microsoft talked a fair bit about the family sharing plan, for a week or 2 that's all they talked about. It wasn't a demo sharing plan as you suggested. Why would anyone want that it was library sharing.

Give your family access to your entire games library anytime, anywhere: Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One. Just like today, a family member can play your copy of Forza Motorsport at a friend’s house. Only now, they will see not just Forza, but all of your shared games. You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time.

Pushtrak

TNT2k_ wrote: »

The One's family sharing was a glorified demo sharing plan where 10 accounts could download the game but would be restricted to an hour of that game before a prompt would arrive telling you to purchase the game to continue. It was highly overrated. But then again, they weren't clear at all on that and refused to talk about it.

There wasn't a time limit.

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-xbox-one-family-game-share-was-never-time-limited

The time limit idea as understood would be ridiculous. If they were going to go with a timed demo, they might as well have just made that available for everyone to get at for its promotional value. It wouldn't make sense to release a demo with two restrictions.

1) Someone you know has the game.
2) Only the person who owns the game and (not sure if it was 1 or 2 or 3 others) at the same time.

It would make far more sense to, for a demo take a "hey, here's a demo" and make it available to everyone.

But, you know, there is some double think among a lot of people who wanted a role reversal on the policies. I've asked some and the response I hear a lot is something along the lines of the evils of gamestop, and how game developers and publishers don't get the money they deserve. I'm sympathetic to the argument. I appreciate the point. However. They want a system where 10 people can all go out and arrange they'lll each get one game, and that group will be able to arrange who plays what when. I've seen the laughable point that "true gamers" wouldn't do that.

I'd like to see game developers and publishers get their due. I don't think the sharing ability as I understand it is conducive to such a thing.

@Pushtrak, With the PS4, you can have a few accounts on the one console you own and those accounts all share the game without having to have the owner of the content signed it, like the PS3, but if you were to go to mate's house and put your account on his PS4 you'd have to have the original owner signed in to play those games. It's exactly like the model MS had where one person could only be signed into the game at one time out of those 10 people, but these would be the full game, not a demo.

The pertinent point here is how many systems can your PSN ID be on with the Playstation 4, then. But, no matter what the answer, it isn't going to do anything in terms of my likelihood to buy the system for reasons I hope are obvious from earlier in the post.

Pushtrak

Varik wrote: »

Right now you can have 2 PS3s active on an account, on these you can use any of the games downloaded to the PS3s with any of the accounts. With this I could download a game to both my PS3s and use any other accounts to play the game offline on those consoles.

Sony are moving to the same as the 360 or at least close, with 1 active PS4 and 1 account. Another user can use their account to play on the "home" console while you need to be online and using the purchasing account on any other console.

PS3 A; any account, offline/online
PS3 B; any account, offline/online

PS4 A; any account, offline/online
PS4 B; 1 account, online

Thanks for the post. I didn't spot there was a new page there when I responded to the other post.

TNT2k_

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Microsoft talked a fair bit about the family sharing plan, for a week or 2 that's all they talked about. It wasn't a demo sharing plan as you suggested. Why would anyone want that it was library sharing.

My mistake, I remember an awful lot of confusion going on with the family sharing plans and even ign thought it was a timed demo whereby it would be locked out after an hour, I found an article where they discussed it but updated it thereafter, apologies. That mustn't have been the case after all.

What I did read was that out of 10 people only one could play at once. I'd imagine that'd render the system far less viable and effective than an open plan and couldn't see that working well, with a rota type arrangement needed in order for it to work as fluidly as possible. Between two people I could see this working well, but not if you've 10 people in your sharing plan. Personally I don't think that'd justify the DRM return, and I hope it doesn't return.

Pushtrak

News that will get everyone excited, I'm sure. Talk about Kinect. Hey, don't get too excited :P

http://www.examiner.com/article/xbox-one-s-kinect-costs-almost-as-much-as-console-integral-part-of-experience?CID=examiner_alerts_article

Oh, snap.

http://stickskills.com/2013/07/13/aaa-xbox-one-games-cannot-be-snapped-says-xbox-one-developer/

2Mad2BeMad

Pushtrak wrote: »

News that will get everyone excited, I'm sure. Talk about Kinect. Hey, don't get too excited :P

http://www.examiner.com/article/xbox-one-s-kinect-costs-almost-as-much-as-console-integral-part-of-experience?CID=examiner_alerts_article

Oh, snap.

http://stickskills.com/2013/07/13/aaa-xbox-one-games-cannot-be-snapped-says-xbox-one-developer/

i wouldnt read to much into it being honest until microsoft confirm it themselfs

its too easy to claim to be someone on the internet specialy if that source came from reddit, also claiming to be an anonymous person from MS
i call BS until microsoft claim it to be

also the snapping feature doesnt really matter to me :pac: i have a pc beside me so no effect on me personally

riclad

There,s alot of info in the gaurdian co uk,technology, website ,site , re ms giving acess to the nsa, for all skype data,audio ,video, and providing easy acess to user data ,emails, in windows 8 os.
They seem to give out more data to the nsa than than any other non telecom company.

I wonder will this effect the sales of xbox one in certain countrys .
Since the xbox1 os is based on windows 8.
And kinect provides more data than a standard webcam.


http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2421733,00.asp
I can see some people just switching over to non usa companys ,like sony.
IF they think their privacy is being compromised.

i DON,T see much point in using skype when you are playing an online game ,
just save and exit the game.

Pushtrak

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

i wouldnt read to much into it being honest until microsoft confirm it themselfs

I'm just going to read the actual souce. He says he showed proof to a mod at Reddit, and has a thing saying he is confirmed as who he claims to be. I haven't gone to these AMAs before, so don't know what it looks like normally compared to what it is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1i71s5/i_am_an_xbox_one_dev_ask_me_almost_anything/

also the snapping feature doesnt really matter to me :pac: i have a pc beside me so no effect on me personally

What? You don't want to be talking to someone on skype while browsing the web whie playing a game while watching netflix while checking the games marketplace?

CatInABox

riclad wrote: »

There,s alot of info in the gaurdian co uk,technology, website ,site , re ms giving acess to the nsa, for all skype data,audio ,video, and providing easy acess to user data ,emails, in windows 8 os.
They seem to give out more data to the nsa than than any other non telecom company.

I wonder will this effect the sales of xbox one in certain countrys .
Since the xbox1 os is based on windows 8.
And kinect provides more data than a standard webcam.


http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2421733,00.asp
I can see some people just switching over to non usa companys ,like sony.
IF they think their privacy is being compromised.

i DON,T see much point in using skype when you are playing an online game ,
just save and exit the game.

This entire scandal is a little overblown if you ask me. All of the slides that Snowden has released contain no information on how the NSA has access to the various companies, not just Microsoft. While the slides talk about direct access, that seems to be more of a market slide than anything else.

In addition, Snowden, in his Q&A, didn't release more information on how this access is made. It's now gotten to the point that the Washington Post has walked back large sections of their original story, and the guardian has also taken down several sections.

I'm not saying that companies don't respond to requests from the American government, but it seems like this is taking select pieces from a power point slide show and releasing them to cause maximum scandal.

I also find it strange that people think that this is something new/unique. Any company that wants to operate in a jurisdiction has to comply with the local laws. This is why Google censer their search result in China, why Yahoo handed over information that led to the capture of an activist in China, and why Microsoft (or any other company) would respond to legitimate warrants for information.

In other words, this type of surveillance occurs in every country, primarily because it's completely legal in those countries.

elfy4eva

If the Kinect were to break (say it fell off the tv when it was being attached or something)
would that mean the xbox itself would no longer work? Or is that yet to be covered?

NORTH1

I think your missing the point a little, it's not like tapping a phone call. The direction this is going in, this crowd in the near future is working towards having a live mic and camera in a lot of living rooms, and possible some kids bedrooms.

At what point do you say this is far enough. Seriously, do you not think it didn't crossed their minds what they where doing when they came up with the idea that you can't physically turn off the camera/mic, and the wealth of information they might gleam.

Pushtrak

elfy4eva wrote: »

If the Kinect were to break (say it fell off the tv when it was being attached or something)
would that mean the xbox itself would no longer work? Or is that yet to be covered?

That's yet to be covered, and to be honest, I've wondered the same thing myself. I can't see the Gamestops, et cetera getting Kinects in stock. What, then? It seems MS would have to be issuing replacements for such eventualities.

I was talking about this to a friend on Xbox Live, and he was saying he'd read articles talking about how kinect was paired to consoles. Now, this is speculation, and I don't necessarily buy into or disregard the thing, but what he was saying (and I looked it up and saw it was true) is that sites referred to the kinect and the one as "paired." His thinking, which is where I can't speak to the accuracy is: the kinect itself and the console have the same ID or something, and if the kinect stops working you'd have to send the console. I don't know, it would be pretty dumb for them to do so, but something being dumb isn't necessarily a means to know it isn't going to happen.

AlmightyCushion

NORTH1 wrote: »

I think your missing the point a little, it's not like tapping a phone call. The direction this is going in, this crowd in the near future is working towards having a live mic and camera in a lot of living rooms, and possible some kids bedrooms.

At what point do you say this is far enough. Seriously, do you not think it didn't crossed their minds what they where doing when they came up with the idea that you can't physically turn off the camera/mic, and the wealth of information they might gleam.

They already have a mic and camera in every living room and kids bedroom in the form of laptops, smartphones and tablets. Plus, the information you can get from an Xbox is nowhere near as useful or valuable as the information you can get from those other three devices for the purpose of spying on people. So, if Microsoft really wanted to spy on people, they wouldn't bundle kinect with the Xbox, they'd just build their spying software into windows which has far more users and will give them far more and better information.

CatInABox

I was making the point that if a government makes a reasonable legal request, then a company will have to make all reasonable effort to comply with that request, including either tapping a phone or providing information contained on servers.

It's not ideal from a privacy perspective, but it is the law.

I suppose it depends on how you want to see the future of technology progress. There has been so much technological advancement over the past ten years that a lot of people have seemed to miss the privacy implication, and are now complaining about something that is relatively minor.

We've gone from having mobile feature phones, where you could be tracked generally, to having mobile smart phones, where you can be tracked down to the meter, while also containing more details about your personal life than ever before. It's child's play for a government to get their hands on that information if they have a valid reason to.

Personally speaking, my phone contains almost all my personal information, and all of it is backed up to the cloud. Google has a service called "Google Now" which is already able to predict where you will be in the near future, and if that doesn't scare you as much I don't know what will. All of that is done through the use of your information that you've put online.

I personally love these new features. I feel like I'm living in the future with them, and, yes, I am aware of the price paid in privacy. I just happen to feel like it's worth it.

riclad

Gamers and general reaction caused ms to do a 180 on DRM always on console connection to the net.
WILL there be a similar pushback against windows 8,
giving the info ,there s data being sent back to nsa thru
email ,skype ,data , audio ,video info on all calls .
Various countrys in the eu have different laws ,
but as far as i know sony has not been caught giving user data or video,audio data direct to the nsa .
SO sony has the advantage if gamers care about privacy.
ITS debateable whether mass surveillance of all users ,
phone calls or web browsing is really legal in the usa .

IN THE usa they have the 4th amendment ,
against unresonable search and seizure of citizens information.
at least people have the choice to buy an android tablet,
or run linux on a pc.

JUST because the nsa has the capability to get data
doesn,t mean its legal or morally right to do so.

ALOT of this data is being collected by private companys , contractors in the USA, which means theres little oversight of who sees it or is all this data at risk of being hacked into by a hacker or foreign government .

it would be nice if microsoft put in a settings menu,
in the xbox.
I just want to play halo,call of duty .
etc switch of kinect ,switch off audio recording,voice commands.
AS in i go to my phone,
90 percent of the time i switch off wifi,bluetooth to save battery power .
50 per cent of users don,t use xbox live anyway.


OF course its, possible gamers don,t care about privacy and this will be forgotten in a few weeks.

Stone Deaf 4evr

have they not already come out and said that you dont need to be connected to the internet to play xbox one? apart from the initial setup, you can then plug out your ethernet cable / turn off wifi and all your privacy concerns are answered.

pleasant Co.

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

have they not already come out and said that you dont need to be connected to the internet to play xbox one? apart from the initial setup, you can then plug out your ethernet cable / turn off wifi and all your privacy concerns are answered.

Yep. Thank goodness for damage control :cool:

Maybe I'll be more likely to pick one up in 5 years, that's a huge step up from - no fuckin way.
(also, just as an aside, my huge gripe was the always-on internet in order to simply play games - that I own! MS can still go leap though as, until proven otherwise, they're rotten to the core)

Pushtrak

Before I say anything else, can I first just ask that you don't drop a line every time you type a few words? It's pretty bad to read. I typically just skip posts like that.

riclad wrote: »

it would be nice if microsoft put in a settings menu,in the xbox.

Kinect Performance Data. This information helps us continuously improve Kinect performance. It does not personally identify you, and collection of this data cannot be disabled. As you play, we collect information on how your Kinect device and platform software are functioning, usage patterns within the Xbox Dashboard applications, and other data that does not directly or personally identify you. We may analyze this performance data to ensure users are receiving the optimal game experience, and to help improve Kinect games and the Xbox 360 platform. We may also share some of this aggregated data with companies that provide Kinect-enabled games which will help them improve their product.

Q: How do I turn the Kinect sensor off? A: You can turn the Kinect sensor OFF by going to System Settings > Kinect Settings and choosing to turn the sensor OFF. The Kinect sensor hardware does not have a physical OFF switch. Alternatively you can always unplug the Kinect sensor from the console when it’s not in use. When using the Kinect Settings to turn the sensor OFF, all processors on the device that are used to stream audio, video, or depth data to the console are in fact turned OFF.

I'm going to break up the quoted bits here to point something out. This obviously refers to when the console is not in use, so when the console is in use, it will be plugged in, but off. Anyway, on to more stuff.

Q: How do I tell if the Kinect sensor is active?
A: The green light on the Kinect sensor will be on when it’s active, off when deactivated.

Q: What data does Kinect collect when it is turned on, but not being actively used as part of a Kinect experience?
A: Kinect does not collect information about you or your environment if you are not engaged in a Kinect experience (playing a Kinect game, using a Kinect-enabled application, or navigating the Xbox dashboard).

Q: How do third party partners use data collected while playing Kinect games? A: Third party partners use aggregated data to deliver Kinect experiences (games or applications), to understand how customers use their Kinect experiences, and to improve performance or even to help plan new experiences. They are not permitted to use the information for marketing purposes such as selling you games or services, or for personalizing advertising. Also, third party partners are not allowed to collect player personal information without review and approval by Microsoft.

Q: Where does Microsoft store data about me, and for how long?
A: Data collected through use of Kinect is stored on Microsoft’s Windows Azure platform for up to three months, after which it will be deleted. During that three-month period, the data will be held for analysis purposes. If chosen for analysis, the data will be rendered into an anonymous state before use.

There is more at the link: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/kinect/privacyandonlinesafety

NORTH1

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

They already have a mic and camera in every living room and kids bedroom in the form of laptops, smartphones and tablets. Plus, the information you can get from an Xbox is nowhere near as useful or valuable as the information you can get from those other three devices for the purpose of spying on people. So, if Microsoft really wanted to spy on people, they wouldn't bundle kinect with the Xbox, they'd just build their spying software into windows which has far more users and will give them far more and better information.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

The mic and camera on the phone is not active until I take a call and our activate the camera. Just as it is with the laptop and tablet. This use of phones and xboxs as been the same type of device is wrong also.

ShiverinEskimo

NORTH1 wrote: »

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

The mic and camera on the phone is not active until I take a call and our activate the camera. Just as it is with the laptop and tablet. This use of phones and xboxs as been the same type of device is wrong also.

Wrong wrong wrong.

Many apps come with terms that include the app using the camera or mic to record video/sound without any user input.

Many more read SMS, make calls and send SMS without user input. Flick a few pages back when I provided many examples of very commonly used apps.

CatInABox

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Wrong wrong wrong.

Many apps come with terms that include the app using the camera or mic to record video/sound without any user input.

Many more read SMS, make calls and send SMS without user input. Flick a few pages back when I provided many examples of very commonly used apps.

Yes, and people are always stunned when they learn about it. I operate from the assumption that any app I use will probably use my information in dozens of ways. In particular, apps that have no visible means of getting money off you are the ones that I pay closest attention to, but some other apps will also charge you for the privilege of taking all your data from you.

Jamie Cal

There's Yanks now starting a petition to get the old policy back, what kind of contrary crap is that?

cadete

Jamie Cal wrote: »

There's Yanks now starting a petition to get the old policy back, what kind of contrary crap is that?

I heard about that last week, i honestly thought it was the sony fans having a laugh tbh

NORTH1

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Wrong wrong wrong.

Many apps come with terms that include the app using the camera or mic to record video/sound without any user input.

Many more read SMS, make calls and send SMS without user input. Flick a few pages back when I provided many examples of very commonly used apps.

I am unaware of any app on my phone that has control over the mic and camera on my phone without my permission or my activation. Please inform me.

CatInABox

Jamie Cal wrote: »

There's Yanks now starting a petition to get the old policy back, what kind of contrary crap is that?

Well, some people were interested in the benefits of the system, including the family sharing plan.

Also, the verge have a timely article on the Xbox One privacy issues, here's their conclusion.

The Verge wrote:

For its part, Microsoft insists that it wouldn’t help the government turn Kinect into an eavesdropping device. Quite the opposite, in fact. "Absent a new law, we don’t believe the government has the legal authority to compel us or any other company that makes products with cameras and microphones to start collecting voice and video data, and we’d aggressively challenge in court any attempts to try and force us to do so," the company told The Verge by email. Microsoft also confirmed that the new Kinect, like the original, has an activity light when it’s turned on.

All in all, it seems unlikely that the Microsoft Kinect would become a spying tool, especially given the backlash if anyone ever found out. It sounds like it would be particularly difficult to justify wide PRISM-style surveillance, given the Kinect’s role in the home. But as devices begin to learn more and more about us, and as intelligence agencies rely on secrecy to block lawsuits that might reveal just how far they’ve gone, we might want to consider which companies we trust to stand up to the government when we invite these incredibly convenient new tools into our lives, and our homes.

Article here

ShiverinEskimo

NORTH1 wrote: »

I am unaware of any app on my phone that has control over the mic and camera on my phone without my permission or my activation. Please inform me.

Without knowing what apps you have your phone it's impossible to say. But if you have only a handful of the most popular ones it's safe to say you could easily be as monitored (if not moreso - GPS is very invasive) than any of the devices being discussed.