Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

NORTH1

Gps is not really an app now, that's just getting silly. Plus it's extremely useful tool.

Did MS write that article?
Slightly over the top comment

incredibly convenient new tools into our lives, and our homes.

2Mad2BeMad

Jamie Cal wrote: »

There's Yanks now starting a petition to get the old policy back, what kind of contrary crap is that?

i want it back ?
im not a yank

although im not too bothered if it doesnt come back, but it would be nice to have it back

CatInABox

NORTH1 wrote: »

Gps is not really an app now, that's just getting silly. Plus it's extremely useful tool.

GPS isn't an app, but apps can access the GPS on your phone to track you. I'm assuming that that is his point. If you've got Angry Birds, then they've been tracking you, see here.

NORTH1 wrote: »

Did MS write that article?

I'd doubt it, seeing as the verge has never be called sympathetic to Microsoft. Strangely enough, I read the article as a negative over all, guess it depends on your starting perspective.

I took the comment you brought out to be more about general technology than the Xbox One, but that could just be my reading of it.

It does seem interesting that the technology is going this way, i.e. the always on microphones of Kinect and Moto X.

AlmightyCushion

NORTH1 wrote: »

Gps is not really an app now, that's just getting silly. Plus it's extremely useful tool.

It's not but any app that uses it could track you.

ShiverinEskimo

NORTH1 wrote: »

Gps is not really an app now, that's just getting silly. Plus it's extremely useful tool.

As others have said, you misunderstood. The GPS function of your smart phone can be used by any app to pin-point your location and movements.

Check this link for a scarily accurate tracking scenario a German politician found himself part of.

It's in German but just press play.

http://www.zeit.de/datenschutz/malte-spitz-vorratsdaten

pleasant Co.

I wouldn't have thought any apps would be permitted to use camera/mic without your knowledge...surely that could land the collector of that information in big trouble?

ShiverinEskimo

pleasant Co. wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought any apps would be permitted to use camera/mic without your knowledge...surely that could land the collector of that information in big trouble?

Apparently not. If you agree to it when installing the app then it's user-beware.

Xenji

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2013/07/16/european-developers-target-playstation-4-over-xbox-one?utm_campaign

Aw, you can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of all people know that.

According to that more publishers are currently developing PS4 games than the XBOX and twice as many are planning on developing one next compared to the XBOX.

AlmightyCushion

pleasant Co. wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought any apps would be permitted to use camera/mic without your knowledge...surely that could land the collector of that information in big trouble?

On Android, once an app has permission to use the camera or mic, it can use it whenever it wants without prompting you, asking you or informing you.

CatInABox

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Apparently not. If you agree to it when installing the app then it's user-beware.

Indeed, installing something like Shazam gives it unrestricted access to the microphone. All you need is a legitimate sounding reason for access to the microphone and they've pretty much got an open ended license to listen to everything you do.

How popular are those sleep aid/alarm clocks that wake you up when you're coming out of sleep naturally? They work by listening to you all night, but it would also allow them to listen during the day.

pleasant Co.

I find it very hard to believe that an app, without being utilised, can access the camera/mic. In the example of shazam the app would need to be activated in order to give it access to the mic, once shazam is exited it is no longer accessing the mic.

I'm hoping this is a misunderstanding of what the app(s) are actually able/allowed to do, and I'm hoping it's a misunderstanding on your parts
Sidenote, I don't use android (WP8)

ShiverinEskimo

Here's what I gleamed (and posted a few pages back) from the permissions pages for major apps like Facebook, Twitter, Google Now, Google Maps and Instagram:

Allows the app to get your precise location using the Global Positioning System (GPS)

Allows the app to send SMS messages. This may result in unexpected charges.

Allows the app to write to SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to read SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to create network sockets and use custom network protocols.

Allows the app to read all calendar events stored on your device, including those of friends or co-workers.

Allows the app to read personal profile information stored on your device

Allows the app to call phone numbers without your intervention.

Allows the app to read the history of all URLs that the Browser has visited, and all of the Browser's bookmarks.

Allows the app to read your device's call log, including data about incoming and outgoing calls.

Allows the app to record audio.

Allows the app to read data about your contacts stored on your device, including the frequency with which you've called, emailed, or communicated in other ways with specific individuals.

pleasant Co.

Considering I don't use any of those apps I don't have the knowledge to say whether access is required to such elements in order for specific in-app features to work. It's not any clearer to me which of us is misunderstanding how certain apps work.

AlmightyCushion

pleasant Co. wrote: »

I find it very hard to believe that an app, without being utilised, can access the camera/mic. In the example of shazam the app would need to be activated in order to give it access to the mic, once shazam is exited it is no longer accessing the mic.

I'm hoping this is a misunderstanding of what the app(s) are actually able/allowed to do, and I'm hoping it's a misunderstanding on your parts
Sidenote, I don't use android (WP8)

Apps can be made so that they start up at boot running in the background. They're basically like services in windows. Facebook is one of the apps that does this which also has camera and mic permissions. Apart from this there is nothing stopping Samsung, HTC or whoever makes the phone doing all this themselves and recording far more information than kinect can. E.g. key logs (steal all your account logins including online banking), browser history, sms logs, call logs, phone book etc. Your not safe either just because your using WP8. If Microsoft were willing to spy on people using Kinect surely they'd do the same with WP8 and Windows 8. The smartphone is far better for spying on people than kinect.

CatInABox

pleasant Co. wrote: »

I find it very hard to believe that an app, without being utilised, can access the camera/mic. In the example of shazam the app would need to be activated in order to give it access to the mic, once shazam is exited it is no longer accessing the mic.

I'm hoping this is a misunderstanding of what the app(s) are actually able/allowed to do, and I'm hoping it's a misunderstanding on your parts
Sidenote, I don't use android (WP8)

I'm a WP8 user myself, but I'd say the situation is much the same there too.

As to your points, it depends on the app. If you take the example of the sleep aid app, does a person need to start it every night, or does it come billed as "able to detect when you fall asleep!" If it's the former, then it probably doesn't listen during the day, but if it's the latter, well.... You get where I'm going.

With a minimal amount of searching, I found this article on Shazam, which is soon getting an update to support background tagging of all music, even when your not in the apps. Sold as a nice, convenient feature, it will actually require access to the microphone at all times. EDIT - Shazam update is already live

I think that that's enough scaring of people who previously had no idea of this stuff!

ShiverinEskimo

pleasant Co. wrote: »

Sidenote, I don't use android (WP8)

CatInABox wrote: »

I'm a WP8 user myself, but I'd say the situation is much the same there too.

A very quick look at the Facebook app for WP8 gives the following:

• Appointments – Allows an app to access the calendar and appointment info on your phone.
• Camera – Allows an app to access the phone's built-in camera.
• Compass – Allows an app to access the phone's built-in compass, if available.
• Contacts – Allows an app to access the contact info on your phone.
• Data services – Your phone's mobile data or WiFi connection.
• Tilt control – Allows an app to access the phone's built-in tilt control, if available.
• Location services – The approximate location coordinates of your phone.
• Photo, music and video libraries – Allows an app to access all photos, music and videos on your phone.
• Microphone – Allows an app to access the phone's built-in microphone.
• Movement and directional sensor – Allows an app to access the phone's motion sensor.
• Proximity – Allows access to the phone's Bluetooth, WiFi and near-field communication (NFC) capabilities.
• Owner identity – An anonymous identifier that allows an app to distinguish one person from another, but provides no personal info.
• Phone identity – A unique device identifier that allows an app to distinguish one phone from another.
• Push notification service – Notifications that an app automatically sends to your phone in the background.
• Ringtones – Allows an app to access the ringtone collection on your phone.
• SD card – Allows an app limited access to the SD card.
• Speech recognition – Allows an app to access Speech features.
• Wallet – Allows an app to access items in your Wallet or to make payments using your Wallet.
• Web browser – Allows an app to access your phone's web browser.
• Xbox – Allows an app to access the Xbox service or your account info.

CatInABox

So WP8 is much the same, at least with the facebook app. Basically, if you've a smartphone, and you're using apps, then some else has at least some of your data.

There just seems to be too much money to be made from selling your details.

ShiverinEskimo

As always, if a product or service is given to you for free, YOU are the product or service.

NORTH1

Well I can't find any evidence of what you claim to be going on, and then using it as a justification for MS to start doing it....

I found this artical which points to another one as evidence of people downloading apps to record themselves, then claims its shocking. It also mentions shazam, and that it had to be turned on....genius.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9215853/Snooping_It_s_not_a_crime_it_s_a_feature?taxonomyName=Privacy&taxonomyId=84

Does Facebook have a video calling service? Would that be a reason for it to seek permission to use the Mic and camera?...I don't know

ShiverinEskimo

NORTH1 wrote: »

Well I can't find any evidence of what you claim to be going on, and then using it as a justification for MS to start doing it....

I found this artical which points to another one as evidence of people downloading apps to record themselves, then claims its shocking. It also mentions shazam, and that it had to be turned on....genius.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/print/9215853/Snooping_It_s_not_a_crime_it_s_a_feature?taxonomyName=Privacy&taxonomyId=84

Does Facebook have a video calling service? Would that be a reason for it to seek permission to use the Mic and camera?...I don't know

Read some of the ones I posted again - these are on the FB app:

Allows the app to send SMS messages. This may result in unexpected charges.

Allows the app to write to SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to read SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to read personal profile information stored on your device

Allows the app to call phone numbers without your intervention.


None of the above information/permissions are central to using FB and cannot be selected manually in using it (SMS and Phone Calls have nothing to do with FB - in fact they would prefer you used their messenger app than SMS so they can harvest more). FB is literally stating the requirement of harvesting information about you, your friends and your texts and possibly calling home to report it if the data links are down.

It's quite contrary to your original statement suggesting your smartphone only does what you want it to do, when you want to do it when in fact the opposite is evidently true.

NORTH1

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Read some of the ones I posted again - these are on the FB app:

Allows the app to send SMS messages. This may result in unexpected charges.

Allows the app to write to SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to read SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to read personal profile information stored on your device

Allows the app to call phone numbers without your intervention.


None of the above information/permissions are central to using FB and cannot be selected manually in using it (SMS and Phone Calls have nothing to do with FB - in fact they would prefer you used their messenger app than SMS so they can harvest more). FB is literally stating the requirement of harvesting information about you, your friends and your texts and possibly calling home to report it if the data links are down.

It's quite contrary to your original statement suggesting your smartphone only does what you want it to do, when you want to do it when in fact the opposite is evidently true.

I take it your point is that if Facebook can do it, and I haven't found any evidence of FB doing it, then MS should be allowed do it? Why? How does this improve my gaming life?

Why should anyone except even a hint of MS moving in this direction? Because FB said it might do it? And I'm sure FB changed its policies after it had everyone signed up to its services....

And my phone has not made a call or sent a message that I have been charger for without my knowledge. 3 are very good at itemising the bill. So my statement still stands unchallenged, contrary to your statement above

cadete

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Read some of the ones I posted again - these are on the FB app:

Allows the app to send SMS messages. This may result in unexpected charges.

Allows the app to write to SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to read SMS messages stored on your device or SIM card.

Allows the app to read personal profile information stored on your device

Allows the app to call phone numbers without your intervention.


None of the above information/permissions are central to using FB and cannot be selected manually in using it (SMS and Phone Calls have nothing to do with FB - in fact they would prefer you used their messenger app than SMS so they can harvest more). FB is literally stating the requirement of harvesting information about you, your friends and your texts and possibly calling home to report it if the data links are down.

It's quite contrary to your original statement suggesting your smartphone only does what you want it to do, when you want to do it when in fact the opposite is evidently true.

have you got a link for this?

Pushtrak

There have been concerns raised about the facebook app...

http://rt.com/usa/facebook-mobile-privacy-sync-187/
http://www.globalethics.org/newsline/2013/04/08/new-facebook-worries/
http://gigaom.com/2013/04/04/why-facebook-home-bothers-me-it-destroys-any-notion-of-privacy/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/16/smartphone_app_privacy_lawsuit/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/9850472/Facebook-mobile-app-to-track-user-even-when-phone-not-being-used.html

One last one, and I'll copy stuff from this one.

Apps can trace your Web habits, look into your contact list, make phone calls without your knowledge, track your location, examine your files and more. They can also automatically send information such as location data to mobile ad networks.

In addition, apps can gather the phone number and the unique ID number of each type of phone: the Unique Device Identifier (UDID) on the iPhone, the International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number on the BlackBerry, and (depending on the make) the IMEI or the Mobile Equipment Identifier (MEID) on an Android phone. Personal information that apps gather about you can be matched to these IDs. That means that ad networks can easily combine various pieces of information collected by multiple apps, build a sophisticated profile about you -- and then legally sell that data to other marketing companies.

More at the link.

AlmightyCushion

NORTH1 wrote: »

I take it your point is that if Facebook can do it, and I haven't found any evidence of FB doing it, then MS should be allowed do it? Why? How does this improve my gaming life?

Why should anyone except even a hint of MS moving in this direction? Because FB said it might do it? And I'm sure FB changed its policies after it had everyone signed up to its services....

And my phone has not made a call or sent a message that I have been charger for without my knowledge. 3 are very good at itemising the bill. So my statement still stands unchallenged, contrary to your statement above

The point he and I are trying to make is that if someone really is shocked and worried about Microsoft using Kinect to spy on them and their kids (I don't think they genuinely are though and are just using it as a stick to beat Microsoft and the Xbox over the head with) then they should dump their laptop, smartphone and tablet because they can be used in the same way except they'd be much better at it.

cadete wrote: »

have you got a link for this?

It pops up when you install the Facebook app on Android.

@ShiverinEskimo - It needs SMS permissions because Facebook Messenger can be used for sending and receiving SMS. I think it needs calls permission for when you view a businesses page and tap the call icon.

Underpaid Mike

During Evo 2013 there was a Killer Instinct panel where the developers had a chance to talk about the game, its features, and more. Included in the "more" category was a discussion about how the game will function with Xbox One's Kinect. Adam Isgreen, Creative Director at Microsoft said that the game will be able to recognize a player, automatically select their favorite character, and automatically set the buttons to a players liking even in the middle of a fight. They also made sure to point out that the game will work off-line. For more details, watch the clip below from the panel.

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2013/07/16/killer-instincts-killer-kinect-integration

Some comments on Killer Instinct and how it uses kinect to recognise who the player and automatically select your favourite character and edit your button config mid fight if you so desire.

Interesting I thought

gizmo

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2013/07/16/killer-instincts-killer-kinect-integration

Some comments on Killer Instinct and how it uses kinect to recognise who the player and automatically select your favourite character and edit your button config mid fight if you so desire.

Interesting I thought

The current gen Kinect can do this also, it's just up to the developer how they use the biometric data for sign in purposes.

As for the whole MS are spying on my kids nonsense, that's easily disprovable for a bunch of reasons. The primary reason being the same one every tinfoil hat conspiracy falls on its face, it would require far too many people to be complicit for it to happen. There's simply no way everyone on the platform team at MS is going to see such functionality implemented and not leak it to the press in some manner.

One could of course argue they could be harvesting data in a fairly innocent manner, thus avoiding the above situation, where it could then be passed onto advertisers/black helicopters/Obama but you then have the little problem of the bandwidth such functionality would require thus making it completely noticeable to the end user.

Either way, there are far better reasons to disagree with the inclusion of the unit and its always-connected requirement.

NORTH1

I just noticed my windows work phone can send up to 10 mb of feedback to Microsoft every 7 days, and this seven day preriod it has sent .01 mb of feedback. This came with the option automatically to opt in. I wasn't aware of this till today.

stevenmu

NORTH1 wrote: »

I just noticed my windows work phone can send up to 10 mb of feedback to Microsoft every 7 days, and this seven day preriod it has sent .01 mb of feedback. This came with the option automatically to opt in. I wasn't aware of this till today.

I've had 3 Windows Phones and they have all given me the option to enable/disable feedback as part of the initial setup. Was yours set up by your office?

maximoose

Oh boy, I'm really enjoying all this talk about facebook privacy settings. Keep it coming, lads!

ShiverinEskimo

maximoose wrote: »

Oh boy, I'm really enjoying all this talk about facebook privacy settings. Keep it coming, lads!

Fantastic input to the thread there yourself chief. It's entirely relevant when discussing a seemingly major privacy concern people have with the X1 and mandatory Kinect.