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Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

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    #5792
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Giblet wrote: »
    You need to do some upscaling for 1080p displays though unless you show borders. If not through hardware, then the display itself will do it, probably with even worse quality.

    Yes, if you've got a 1080 tv, and you put in a lower source (i.e. 720 or 900), then it's going to be upscaled, either by the TV itself, or by the source.

    The question then is whether the algorithm and the chip doing the scaling is good or not.

    In the case of the Xbox One, they have a chip (or a section of a chip) that is dedicated to upscaling. This is meant to result in better quality than the equivalent HANA chip on the Xbox 360.


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    #5793
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    Giblet wrote: »
    You need to do some upscaling for 1080p displays though unless you show borders. If not through hardware, then the display itself will do it, probably with even worse quality.

    Yes, working the same way the current 360 works. It will upscale to 1080i not p.

    Xbox One will be upscaling to 1080i not p. p is classed as TRUE HD or FULL HD.


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    #5794
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    logik wrote: »
    Yes, working the same way the current 360 works. It will upscale to 1080i not p.

    Xbox One will be upscaling to 1080i not p. p is classed as TRUE HD or FULL HD.

    Yep, 720p is 1 million pixels, upscaled 1080i is still 1 million pixels, but just stretched out more which gives you a lot more jaggies and texture issues.


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    #5795
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    Xenji wrote: »
    Yep, 720p is 1 million pixels, upscaled 1080i is still 1 million pixels, but just stretched out more which gives you a lot more jaggies and texture issues.

    Exactly. Not ideal but its all we can expect at the moment from the XBO sadly. What we do have is the ability to use high levels of AA which will help smooth out the edges or should I say blur them so they wont be as noticeable but it is a far cry from true 1080p.


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    #5796
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Yes, if you've got a 1080 tv, and you put in a lower source (i.e. 720 or 900), then it's going to be upscaled, either by the TV itself, or by the source.

    The question then is whether the algorithm and the chip doing the scaling is good or not.

    In the case of the Xbox One, they have a chip (or a section of a chip) that is dedicated to upscaling. This is meant to result in better quality than the equivalent HANA chip on the Xbox 360.

    Both consoles have the exact same method of upscaling via a fixed pipeline function before presentation. There isn't any magic sauce here. They can of course do their own upscaling as a final pass in software before passing to the GPU upscaler which will mean the hardware does nothing.


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    #5797
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    Grayditch wrote: »
    What about processing power? Overheating prevention.

    Well, when it comes to consoles, I think people should really only care about whether something looks good or not, and whether something works or not.

    If people really care about CPU cores, Mhz, shader pipelines, resolution, temperatures and airflows, I think they should really look at PCs where they can actually control all of these factors.

    But judging by the rest of the posts on this thread most people don't agree, so I might as well join in ....


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    #5798
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    logik wrote: »
    Yes, working the same way the current 360 works. It will upscale to 1080i not p.

    Xbox One will be upscaling to 1080i not p. p is classed as TRUE HD or FULL HD.

    It's upscaling to 1080p, 1080i means interlaced which is sending 1920x540 per frame, so the framerate for a full frame is effectively half.


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    #5799
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    They should really stop with the tag " Only possible on the Xbox One " it is gonna lead to so many memes and jokes, but anyway new Forza tv spot.



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    #5800
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    Xenji wrote: »
    That all looks fine on a computer monitor, but the bigger your TV screen is, the more stretching occurs when it gets up scaled, it might not look that bad on a 32", but when you start going up to 40" screens it will look pretty bad and get worse the bigger the screen.

    They should keep the native 900p or stick with native 720p, the games will look better that way, as it is how they were meant to be outputted, every time you upscale something you will lose quality, some things may be very noticeable, while others may not be as noticeable.

    It's the exact same amount of stretching whatever TV/monitor size is used.

    I've spent the whole of the current generation playing games that were native 720p (or far lower) upscaled to 1080p, and never once has something looked bad because of it.

    logik wrote: »
    Yes, working the same way the current 360 works. It will upscale to 1080i not p.

    Xbox One will be upscaling to 1080i not p. p is classed as TRUE HD or FULL HD.

    The 360 does upscale to 1080p (at least mine does, that might have been something brought in on later models?)


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    #5801
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    Giblet wrote: »
    It's upscaling to 1080p, 1080i means interlaced which is sending 1920x540 per frame, so the framerate for a full frame is effectively half.

    1080i makes the TV display frames twice, the first pass is 1920x540 for the even scan line field, and the second pass is 1920x540 for the odd scan line field.

    With 1080p the output is progressively drawn line after line, so they're not interlaced.


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    #5802
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    Xenji wrote: »
    1080i makes the TV display frames twice, the first pass is 1920x540 for the even scan line field, and the second pass is 1920x540 for the odd scan line field.

    With 1080p the output is progressively drawn line after line, so they're not interlaced.

    Maybe I should have explained it better but yes, I meant it sends half the frame, then the other half, and they are interlaced (odd & even).

    Upscalers don't do that for modern consoles, it's an artifact from early HD times.


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    #5803
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    logik wrote: »
    Yes, working the same way the current 360 works. It will upscale to 1080i not p.

    Xbox One will be upscaling to 1080i not p. p is classed as TRUE HD or FULL HD.

    It upscales to 1080p. From the quote from Infinity Wards Mark Rubin:
    Mark Rubin wrote:
    Hey, been on the road last couple weeks so haven’t had a chance to update, but wanted to confirm that for Xbox One we’re 1080p upscaled from 720p. And, we’re native 1080p on PS4. We optimized each console to hit 60 FPS and the game looks great on both. Still on the road, but glad to see the great reception to Extinction. Can’t wait for next week’s launch.


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    #5804
    FAILSAFE 00
    Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    Jaysas lads, due to all the posts about all the different resolutions this is what my eyes are seeing now...

    6064565706950795564654654454654546545465415414113216
    5644165465416546546545646455878676876876687676876687
    5464654546545645641564541687687687768766878687687786
    5465464846846846854645465687686776766/86876886867886

    PS4 fanboys think gamers will see this post like this on the XB1...

    b7eh.png

    Were's the feckin anadin in the house when I need it.


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    #5805
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »
    Jaysas lads, due to all the posts about all the different resolutions this is what my eyes are seeing now...

    6064565706950795564654654454654546545465415414113216
    5644165465416546546545646455878676876876687676876687
    5464654546545645641564541687687687768766878687687786
    5465464846846846854645465687686776766/86876886867886

    Were's the feckin anadin in the house when I need it.

    5QK9pIp.png

    In glorious 720p.


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    #5806
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    Upscaled to 1080p

    9j3xxs.png


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    #5807
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Giblet wrote: »
    Both consoles have the exact same method of upscaling via a fixed pipeline function before presentation. There isn't any magic sauce here. They can of course do their own upscaling as a final pass in software before passing to the GPU upscaler which will mean the hardware does nothing.

    I've taken a quick look into, and I had based some of my info on things that I read years ago that turned out to be dead wrong. Turns out that the Xbox 360 ANA/HANA chip was only used for output, no upscaling done there at all. It was all done in the GPU, as you said.

    Not sure how you know the consoles use the same process for upscaling though, surely it would be down to the algorithms used to generate the extra info, and then detect and remove artifacts.

    There's a good read on it here or anyone that wants general info on video upscaling.


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    #5808
    FAILSAFE 00
    Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    The true resolution test.

    Titanfall Xbox One vs PS4 :D

    0652.png


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    #5809
    DARK-KNIGHT
    Registered Users Posts: 10,216 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    Seriously you ps fanboys need to gey back under your bridges.. its pathetic that you are in here trolling constantly . So ps4 vs xbox one is now officially a first world problem.... embarrassing to be irish reading the tripe some are posting here i can just see you breaking yiur parents balls to buy you your consoles...


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    #5810
    DARK-KNIGHT
    Registered Users Posts: 10,216 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »
    The true resolution test.

    Titanfall Xbox One vs PS4 :D

    0652.png

    Mmm titanfall makes me feel warm inside .


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    #5811
    Xenji
    Registered Users Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭Xenji


    DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »
    Seriously you ps fanboys need to gey back under your bridges.. its pathetic that you are in here trolling constantly . So ps4 vs xbox one is now officially a first world problem.... embarrassing to be irish reading the tripe some are posting here i can just see you breaking yiur parents balls to buy you your consoles...

    You are the biggest X1 fan boy here :pac: you can hardly discuss a console that is coming out without comparing it to its competitor in a good constructive way :)


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    #5812
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,980 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    CatInABox wrote: »
    I've taken a quick look into, and I had based some of my info on things that I read years ago that turned out to be dead wrong. Turns out that the Xbox 360 ANA/HANA chip was only used for output, no upscaling done there at all. It was all done in the GPU, as you said.

    Not sure how you know the consoles use the same process for upscaling though, surely it would be down to the algorithms used to generate the extra info, and then detect and remove artifacts.

    There's a good read on it here or anyone that wants general info on video upscaling.

    They both use AMD GPUs so it's a decent guess.

    Anyway, and this is important to note as people seem to get lost.

    Upscaling of any kind is not going to beat native. You cannot create information from nothing. Also, the algorithms used for upscaling are not magic, they are well known and trivial to implement. They've been around for years.
    If a console had a truly bad hardware scaler (they generally don't, except in the horrible horizontal only PS3 case... ugh), it can be done in software without much penalty.

    Your HDTV can do it for feck sake!


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    #5813
    DARK-KNIGHT
    Registered Users Posts: 10,216 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    Xenji wrote: »
    You are the biggest X1 fan boy here :pac: you can hardly discuss a console that is coming out without comparing it to its competitor in a good constructive way :)

    No i just dont see the point in you coming in to this forum to discuss the differences this thread is for xbox one discussion not a ps4 vs xbox one thread. Im not a fanboy i have a wii u and will have an xbox one and at some stage a ps4 maybe if thry get a decent exclusive like titanfall.

    In other news ps4 will not work with any external hard drive...


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    #5814
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »
    The true resolution test.

    Titanfall Xbox One vs PS4 :D

    0652.png

    Titanfall 2 PS4 1082p 60FPS

    I can wait for that :pac:


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    #5815
    Grayditch
    Registered Users Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭✭Grayditch


    DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »
    No i just dont see the point in you coming in to this forum to discuss the differences this thread is for xbox one discussion not a ps4 vs xbox one thread.



    In other news ps4 will not work with any external hard drive...

    Awkward.


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    #5816
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    Titanfall 2 PS4 1082p 60FPS

    I can wait for that :pac:

    Ah Jaysus, you're telling me it's not even going to be 1080p native???!?!?!?!

    Imaginary pre-order CANCELLED!!!!!!111!1!!! Etc.


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    #5817
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    Can we please put this dick-waving to bed folks? For the sake of the thread and all that is holy?


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    #5818
    FAILSAFE 00
    Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    jaffusmax wrote: »
    Titanfall 2 PS4 1082p 60FPS

    I can wait for that :pac:

    Lol, good stuff you can enjoy in a few years so. BTW, I didn't see the PS4 announcement for Titanfall 2... yet you even know the resolutions. Must be great to be an industry insider ;)


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    #5819
    jaffusmax
    Registered Users Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭jaffusmax


    FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »
    Lol, good stuff you can enjoy in a few years so. BTW, I didn't see the PS4 announcement for Titanfall 2... yet you even know the resolutions. Must be great to be an industry insider ;)

    other-6bb61e3b7bce0931da574d19d1d82c88-1788.gif


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    #5820
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,352 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    Can we please put this dick-waving to bed folks? For the sake of the thread and all that is holy?

    Well, there's not much else to talk about really. There's not much news coming out anymore that we didn't already know.


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    #5821
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    Well I'm more of a 'if you don't have something good to say, say nothing' kinda guy.

    Silence would be preferable to the childish sniping going on above.


This discussion has been closed.
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