Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

syboit

stevenmu wrote: »

I know people get annoyed when gaming PCs are recommended over consoles, but you are literally describing gaming PCs...

I dont believe in changes such as physical upgrades of memory/cpu, as been said already it just splitting the user-base for dev's (almost like introducing a while new console). But I did like the idea that nintendo used for the memory module in the N64.

Fingleberries

CatInABox wrote: »

Tom Warren has confirmed the problems with the OS dash on the Xbox One.

Tom Warren wrote:

The Xbox One reports of laggy dashboard and app snapping are accurate. I just played with an August dash and it was bad. Latest is better

Still expect this to be polished out by launch.

In fairness, in software terms August is a long time ago - nearer to E3 than to launch - and we all knew that there's a Day One patch coming that means that they can work on the software right up to launch.

In the olden days, they would have had to work up to mid-November on the software and then start shipping hardware. This would mean that the consoles would only be out to market in January or so.

It's a trade off to get the hardware out sooner.

Techniques07

syboit wrote: »

I thought towards the end of the video it seemed to be better. But as people say its hard to tell when looking at compressed youtube video's, and god only know what they used to capture it in the first place. I'd be more interested to know what frame rate it was running it, I know its 60fps for single player, just hoping the multiplayer doesn't change that.

I seen a totalbuscuit video this week of him playing BF4 and complaining that youtube had made the game look less visually pleasing to the eye than it does when you're playing it so I wouldn't go by what you see on youtube right now. Wait until you see it in store on the day maybe.

CatInABox

Fingleberries wrote: »

In fairness, in software terms August is a long time ago - nearer to E3 than to launch - and we all knew that there's a Day One patch coming that means that they can work on the software right up to launch.

Yes, I meant to highlight that actually. August is a really really long time ago now. Time flies when you're having fun, etc.

Blazer

stevenmu wrote: »

I know people get annoyed when gaming PCs are recommended over consoles, but you are literally describing gaming PCs...

that's basically what these consoles are...they're x86 platform..my point is both consoles can be released with upgraded features over the next few years etc with no additional development required since the x86 platform is common.
Essentially both consoles are in essence gaming PC's with their own OS on there.. It could be a good thing or a bad thing.
Remember MS have released Xboxes with different hardware.
Original xbox 360 didn't have integrated wireless, 20gb hard driver or something tiny, each new SKU added newer chipset, integrated wireless and increasingly bigger hard drives.
I'll put €50 on that we will see a XB1 with DDR5 ram within the next few years as it will be a minor upgrade etc.

CatInABox

Blazer wrote: »

that's basically what these consoles are...they're x86 platform..my point is both consoles can be released with upgraded features over the next few years etc with no additional development required since the x86 platform is common.
Essentially both consoles are in essence gaming PC's with their own OS on there.. It could be a good thing or a bad thing.
Remember MS have released Xboxes with different hardware.
Original xbox 360 didn't have integrated wireless, 20gb hard driver or something tiny, each new SKU added newer chipset, integrated wireless and increasingly bigger hard drives.
I'll put €50 on that we will see a XB1 with DDR5 ram within the next few years as it will be a minor upgrade etc.

Except it won't be a minor upgrade, and splitting the user base destroys the economic benefits of having one set target to develop for.

The main benefit of consoles for developers is that it is a common platform, they only need to aim for one target to access everyone that bought one.

Think about this:
Xbox One released
Xbox One sells twenty million in a year
New Xbox One released that has upgraded memory.
New Xbox One sells twenty million in a year.
A game is released that requires the updated memory.
New game only has a potential market of 20 million.

It's just not going to happen because it's totally crazy from all points of view, not just economically. Splitting the user base is never going to happen.

However, during the life of the Xbox 360, it was "upgraded" several times. First was a die shrink, then the CPU and GPU were combined, and then there was another die shrink.

These upgrades happen fairly frequently, but the reason they happen is that they make economic sense for the console manufacturer. Every time the die was shrunk, they could have increased the power of the chip, but they didn't. The reason? It would split the user base.

ZiabR

Blazer wrote: »

that's basically what these consoles are...they're x86 platform..my point is both consoles can be released with upgraded features over the next few years etc with no additional development required since the x86 platform is common.
Essentially both consoles are in essence gaming PC's with their own OS on there.. It could be a good thing or a bad thing.
Remember MS have released Xboxes with different hardware.
Original xbox 360 didn't have integrated wireless, 20gb hard driver or something tiny, each new SKU added newer chipset, integrated wireless and increasingly bigger hard drives.
I'll put €50 on that we will see a XB1 with DDR5 ram within the next few years as it will be a minor upgrade etc.

Sorry but you are wrong here. The upgrades you speak about are not performance upgrades as far as how the system works. As per my previous post about this:

That would never work for a console. You cannot allow upgrades of hardware mid gen. Reason being that, the developers can NEVER assume everyone has bought the same upgrades and so the developer has to program and develop ALL games for the entry level system meaning you can slap on enough upgrades to get you to Mars but in relality the upgrades would not be used as the developer has to develop for the slower system.

The only changes we are going to see with the XBO are OS related. They can move around resource allocation using OS updates etc and evolve the console that way. All upgrades would be software based and never hardware based.

If a company was to go do the route of major hardware upgrades the user base would be split and you are essentially saying that all users would have to buy a new console again.

I will happily take your €50.

FAILSAFE 00

Grayditch wrote: »

THEY'RE RUSHING THESE DAMN CONSOLES!

Absolutely, the true launch date for these consoles is March 2014. Microsoft and Sony couldn't miss out on the holiday season purchases.

Cheerful Spring

198321 wrote: »

is that real? I thought it's fake video, looks awful ...

XB1 has more than 8 times the memory of the X Box 360. It has a better CPU and GPU. There is no way the game looks that bad because of the XB1.

I think they made the game for the PS3 and XbOX 360 and then ported it over.

Blazer

logik wrote: »

I will happily take your €50.

so it's a bet I could be wrong but I reckon within the lifetime of the console we're see upgrades.
I'm talking about Ram/faster or bigger blu-ray capability/faster wifi like ac etc..

Cheerful Spring

Blazer wrote: »

The more I read about the XB1 the more I worry about it and its lack of power.
I be debating to cancel and get the PS4 instead and then see Sony pulled DNLA streaming from the PS4 and it can't play MP3 music.
Then I'm thinking both of them are basically hobbled PCs and we're paying the price for Sony/MS trying to cover too many scenarios and leaving the real gamer screwed over.
No matter what people say about launch games these are x86 titles and aren't a problem for Activision to code for or shouldn't be.
In fact their development just got a while pile easier except for the 32mb ram (eeram i think they called it)
I've a very high suspicion that we're see a few revisions of the XB1 down the line with upgrade graphics chips etc and possibly DDR5 as well.AUSPWMIASODM01

Have you not seen the Battlefield 4 next gen footage. The colouring and shading actually look better on the xb1

I don't think anyone has done a comparison of COD ghosts yet. I don't believe footage has been released yet.

The Sony OS is as basic is like the X box 360 dashboard, hardly next gen.

No dedicated servers. Honestly, i think you be stupid to cancel your pre-order.

Third developers, are the ones having issues with the xb1, at the moment. I think its more to do with them, having less time with the hardware.

Forza runs at 1080p and 60 frames First party game. Second party Ryse runs at 900p and looks amazing. Dead rising 3 i heard was 900p too.

900p to 1080p isn't a giant leap. So 720p will not be the norm on xb1 at all.

Like Killzone for god sake only runs at 30 frames on PS4, single player. If it was so much more powerful than XB1 why is it not 60 frames?

Pushtrak

Blazer wrote: »

so it's a bet I could be wrong but I reckon within the lifetime of the console we're see upgrades.
I'm talking about Ram/faster or bigger blu-ray capability/faster wifi like ac etc..

Nothing will be done to the consoles such that launch day consoles will not be able to play end of generation games. And end of generation revision consoles aren't going to play games better than launch day consoles. Yes, there will be revisions, which primarily exist to reduce the cost, but have the secondary advantage of increasing reliability... Looking at it from a business perspective.

FlyingIrishMan

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Have you not seen the Battlefield 4 next gen footage. The colouring and shading actually look better on the xb1

I don't think anyone has done a comparison of COD ghosts yet. I don't believe footage has been released yet.

The Sony OS is as basic is like the X box 360 dashboard, hardly next gen.

No dedicated servers. Honestly, i think you be stupid to cancel your pre-order.

Third developers, are the ones having issues with the xb1, at the moment. I think its more to do with them, having less time with the hardware.

Forza runs at 1080p and 60 frames First party game. Second party Ryse runs at 900p and looks amazing. Dead rising 3 i heard was 900p too.

900p to 1080p isn't a giant leap. So 720p will not be the norm on xb1 at all.

Like Killzone for god sake only runs at 30 frames on PS4, single player. If it was so much more powerful than XB1 why is it not 60 frames?

I like how you left out bits of information that made your post sound better. You complain KZSF is only 30FPS in 1080p, but then praise Ryse for being 30FPS 900p?
Ryse is 900p and 30FPS.
DR3 is a mix of 720p/900p and 30FPS.

KillzoneShadowfall is 1080p 30FPS unlocked in singleplayer, and 60FPS in multiplayer.

And no dedicated servers? COD Ghosts, BF4, and KZSF all have dedicated servers.

Xenji

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Have you not seen the Battlefield 4 next gen footage. The colouring and shading actually look better on the xb1

I don't think anyone has done a comparison of COD ghosts yet. I don't believe footage has been released yet.

The Sony OS is as basic is like the X box 360 dashboard, hardly next gen.

No dedicated servers. Honestly, i think you be stupid to cancel your pre-order.

Third developers, are the ones having issues with the xb1, at the moment. I think its more to do with them, having less time with the hardware.

Forza runs at 1080p and 60 frames First party game. Second party Ryse runs at 900p and looks amazing. Dead rising 3 i heard was 900p too.

900p to 1080p isn't a giant leap. So 720p will not be the norm on xb1 at all.

Like Killzone for god sake only runs at 30 frames on PS4, single player. If it was so much more powerful than XB1 why is it not 60 frames?

Do you really need those two points explained to you again and for the 3rd time as it does not seem to be sinking in.

Cheerful Spring

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I like how you left out bits of information that made your post sound better. You complain KZSF is only 30FPS in 1080p, but then praise Ryse for being 30FPS 900p?
Ryse is 900p and 30FPS.
DR3 is a mix of 720p/900p and 30FPS.

KillzoneShadowfall is 1080p 30FPS unlocked in singleplayer, and 60FPS in multiplayer.

And no dedicated servers? COD Ghosts, BF4, and KZSF all have dedicated servers.

60 frames is important for shooters. Are you not aware of that?

Ryse and Dead rising 3 are not shooters, so 30 frames is perfect because there much slower games!

Killzone as its a shooter should be 60 frames across the board, single player and for online play.

There is a reason COD and Battlefield run at 60 frames on both XB1 and PS4!

Sony has no dedicated servers. Servers provided by gaming developers is not the same thing. Microsoft is giving free dedicated servers. Most games on the PS4 will be player hosted matches.

And finally Killzone has no dedicated servers.
Here is the official Killzone Shadow Fall answer to how their multiplayer network is structured. This comes from an interview with the Playstation Blog.

Killzone Shadow Fall has dedicated servers hosted in various regions around the world. These servers do not run the logic of the game – they only act as a hub between the clients, forwarding network traffic from one player in game to all other players in game. This allows people with a slower connection or strict firewall settings to play without issues. Almost all logic relating to you (e.g. moving, shooting and taking damage) runs on your local PS4, with only a very small portion of the game logic (i.e. mission/scoring logic) running on the ‘session master’, one PS4 in the game selected for its connection quality.

Captain Chaos

60fps is not important for FPS games unless they are fast paced FPS games like CoD. KZ and BF up till now were 30 fps games. So long as the fps is constant and not fluctuating is the most important thing.

Xenji

I love how some of posters here think the majority of gamers are hardcore FPS players and get so defense over the games, a lot of people could care less about online play and dedicated servers, these games will not make or break a console.

pleasant Co.

...i hear batman: arkham city was somewhat popular :P

rob808

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

60 frames is important for shooters. Are you not aware of that?

Ryse and Dead rising 3 are not shooters, so 30 frames is perfect because there much slower games!

Killzone as its a shooter should be 60 frames across the board, single player and for online play.

There is a reason COD and Battlefield run at 60 frames on both XB1 and PS4!

Sony has no dedicated servers. Servers provided by gaming developers is not the same thing. Microsoft is giving free dedicated servers. Most games on the PS4 will be player hosted matches.

And finally Killzone has no dedicated servers.
Here is the official Killzone Shadow Fall answer to how their multiplayer network is structured. This comes from an interview with the Playstation Blog.

Killzone Shadow Fall has dedicated servers hosted in various regions around the world. These servers do not run the logic of the game – they only act as a hub between the clients, forwarding network traffic from one player in game to all other players in game. This allows people with a slower connection or strict firewall settings to play without issues. Almost all logic relating to you (e.g. moving, shooting and taking damage) runs on your local PS4, with only a very small portion of the game logic (i.e. mission/scoring logic) running on the ‘session master’, one PS4 in the game selected for its connection quality.

sony does have dedicated servers just not as many as Microsoft and see a lot of third party using Microsoft dedicated for there games using them for ps4 like what activision did with Ghost since there renting them off Microsoft.it be mainly the big players of course ps4 will still use p2p.

2Mad2BeMad

Xenji wrote: »

I love how some of posters here think the majority of gamers are hardcore FPS players and get so defense over the games, a lot of people could care less about online play and dedicated servers, these games will not make or break a console.

online play in this current gen could definitly make or a break a console
but dedi severs no I dont think so, besides its up too games developers if they want to use MS servers, so not all xbox one games will have dedi servers
and by some of the posters "here" you do mean all of the boards? ie. including the PS threads :pac: cause its all they seem to really care about

Royal Irish

Xenji wrote: »

I love how some of posters here think the majority of gamers are hardcore FPS players and get so defense over the games, a lot of people could care less about online play and dedicated servers, these games will not make or break a console.

Shooters accounted for a little over half the sales of the top 10 selling console games in 2012.

Grayditch

I thought it was 45% COD, 45% Fifa, and 10% whatever weirdos like the rest of us play.

nanook5

Grayditch wrote: »

I thought it was 45% COD, 45% Fifa, and 10% whatever weirdos like the rest of us play.

What about BF ?

Grayditch

nanook5 wrote: »

What about BF ?

Oh yeah. 30 COD, 30 BF, 30 FIFA. That sounds better. :pac:

2Mad2BeMad

nanook5 wrote: »

What about BF ?

think he meant 45% fps :P

Xenji

Royal Irish wrote: »

Shooters accounted for a little over half the sales of the top 10 selling console games in 2012.

Top 15 games of 2012, and only 2 are FPS ( Borderlands is more of a Hybrid ) People just going out and buying a game like CoD is actually hurting the industry more than helping it, especially the players who play nothing else and will not even try anything else.

1. Call Of Duty: Black Ops II – Activision Blizzard
2. FIFA 13 – Electronic Arts
3. Assassin’s Creed III – Ubisoft
4. Halo 4 – Microsoft
5. Hitman Absolution – Square Enix
6. Just Dance 4 – Ubisoft
7. Far Cry 3 – Ubisoft
8. FIFA 12 – Electronic Arts
9. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim – Bethesda Softworks
10. Borderlands 2 – 2K Games
11. Mass Effect 3 – Electronic Arts
12. Lego Batman 2: DC Super Heroes – WB Games
13. Need For Speed: Most Wanted – Electronic Arts
14. FIFA Street – Electronic Arts
15. Mario & Sonic At The London 2012 Olympic Games – Sega

nanook5

Grayditch wrote: »

Oh yeah. 30 COD, 30 BF, 30 FIFA. That sounds better. :pac:

Yea that's better :P

Cheerful Spring

Xbox One's Xbox Live: 7 Reasons It's Better

Xenji

First 25 mins of Dead Rising 3

Benzino

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Xbox One's Xbox Live: 7 Reasons It's Better

Hmm, I thought Microsoft said that dedicated servers would be available for free to all developers? If developers have to pay for them, then it is not guaranteed that every game will have dedicated servers.