Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

gizmo

beno619 wrote: »

The issue here is its significantly weaker than the PS4.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4

PS4 exclusives are going to be truly next gen and in a year or to so will the cross platform games
The Xbox One will age quicker.
The Xbox 360 came with one of the best GPU's available at its time of release in fact I think it was an unreleased GPU.

If you like the entertainment machine then this thing is great but it definitely hasn't been designed break ground in console gaming.

In terms of real world application it's not significantly weaker at all. It's certainly weaker of course, how much so will depend on how the ESRAM is used or indeed can be used though.

It's certainly an odd move by MS over all but the same could be said for the gamble Sony took with the GDDR5 supply issue. Luckily for the latter, it paid off. Either way, it should be interesting to see how multi-platform development works out over time.

NTMK

beno619 wrote: »

The issue here is its significantly weaker than the PS4.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4

PS4 exclusives are going to be truly next gen and in a year or to so will the cross platform games
The Xbox One will age quicker.
The Xbox 360 came with one of the best GPU's available at its time of release in fact I think it was an unreleased GPU.

If you like the entertainment machine then this thing is great but it definitely hasn't been designed break ground in console gaming.

power has never decided the winner of the console war. The 360 was weaker than the ps3 the wii was weaker than both

same with the ps2 and ps1. the GC, xbox, Dreamcast, N64 were all more powerful than sony's systems. Timing and most importantly games are the keys to a successful console, power is almost a curse for consoles going off history.

MS forgot that part and will need to have a blinder of an e3 to turn things back in their favour.

This console i feel has to many strings attached for a games console. of course sony could pull the same **** as lets not forget they're a pack of ***** too :pac:

Yo Mamma

Dont know if this has been posted up yet but worth a read...

Everything You Hate About the Xbox One, and Why It's Not So Bad

:pac:

beno619

NTMK wrote: »

power has never decided the winner of the console war. The 360 was weaker than the ps3 the wii was weaker than both

same with the ps2 and ps1. the GC, xbox, Dreamcast, N64 were all more powerful than sony's systems. Timing and most importantly games are the keys to a successful console, power is almost a curse for consoles going off history.

MS forgot that part and will need to have a blinder of an e3 to turn things back in their favour.

This console i feel has to many strings attached for a games console. of course sony could pull the same **** as lets not forget they're a pack of ***** too :pac:

Yep but the PS3 was held back by the Cell architecture.
Uncharted and God of War look significantly better than anything on Xbox 360.
Sony lost the last round but not by much. Xbox Live and a far superior controller is why I loved the 360 and why it was a better console .

Their are now both x86 and canSsony have developers on board.

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/04/23/microsoft-cedes-consoles-to-sony-gives-up-on-gaming/

The PS4's advantage is 30 - 50% easily exploitable power, have we ever seen such a gap ?

I think MS has already lost but then again they didnt even try and compete.

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/05/22/microsoft-subtly-admits-losing-with-xbox-one/

Meesared

beno619 wrote: »

Yep but the PS3 was held back by the Cell architecture.
Uncharted and God of War look significantly better than anything on Xbox 360.
Sony lost the last round but not by much. Xbox Live and a far superior controller is why I loved the 360 and why it was a better console .

Their are now both x86 and canSsony have developers on board.

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/04/23/microsoft-cedes-consoles-to-sony-gives-up-on-gaming/

The PS4's advantage is 30 - 50% easily exploitable power, have we ever seen such a gap ?

I think MS has already lost but then again they didnt even try and compete.

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/05/22/microsoft-subtly-admits-losing-with-xbox-one/

They seem to know a lot more than anyone else about the Xbox One architecture, I have no idea where are they (and you) are getting this information from, neither company has said much about their CPU and GPU.

I have no idea where you are getting the 30-50% figure from

beno619

gizmo wrote: »

In terms of real world application it's not significantly weaker at all. It's certainly weaker of course, how much so will depend on how the ESRAM is used or indeed can be used though.

It's certainly an odd move by MS over all but the same could be said for the gamble Sony took with the GDDR5 supply issue. Luckily for the latter, it paid off. Either way, it should be interesting to see how multi-platform development works out over time.

7750/70 vs 7850/70.
8gb DDR5(7gb usable) vs 8gb DDR3 + 32mb ESRAM(5 usable).

the PS4 also seems to be the 1st implementation of AMD's HSA dreams with the CPU and GPU able to access the the same memory pool without copying data.

I would say its Significant and a lot of Devs think so as well.

NTMK

beno619 wrote: »

Yep but the PS3 was held back by the Cell architecture.
Uncharted and God of War look significantly better than anything on Xbox 360.
Sony lost the last round but not by much. Xbox Live and a far superior controller is why I loved the 360 and why it was a better console .

Their are now both x86 and canSsony have developers on board.

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/04/23/microsoft-cedes-consoles-to-sony-gives-up-on-gaming/

The PS4's advantage is 30 - 50% easily exploitable power, have we ever seen such a gap ?

I think MS has already lost but then again they didnt even try and compete.

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/05/22/microsoft-subtly-admits-losing-with-xbox-one/

both the 360 and ps3 lost to the wii by a mile on console sales. but the ps3 was quite a lot more powerful but very imbalanced.

the points of weakness i assume (i cant read the articles) are shaders 1152~ - 764~ and the ddr3 with esram to gddr5. these in real world terms are not much not enough to notice in 1080p. this of course depends on how the esram works but even then its not that much.and that ram allocation can be change by ms with optimisations

its a weaker system but not enough to be noticed by the gamer

beno619

Meesared wrote: »

They seem to know a lot more than anyone else about the Xbox One architecture, I have no idea where are they (and you) are getting this information from, neither company has said much about their CPU and GPU.

I have no idea where you are getting the 30-50% figure from

This information has been readily available on Google for the past year.

Have you read any of the links posted ?

There's a reason MS shied away from mentioning the GPU at the "Hardware" event.

Sorry if I sounds like a troll, but im a bitterly disappointing 360 owner and MS seem to have decided to make all the wrong decisions.

Meesared

beno619 wrote: »

This information has been readily available on Google for the past year.

Have you read any of the links posted ?

There's a reason MS shied away from mentioning the GPU at the "Hardware" event.

Sorry if I sounds like a troll, but im a bitterly disappointing 360 owner and MS seem to have decided to make all the wrong decisions.

I don't think Google is counted as a good source regarding an previously unannounced console, I'll take anything said about the internals with a serious pinch of salt until its official, from MS

Also I would seriously not call the announcement a hardware event, they showed off the console, talked about what was inside in very brief terms for around 2 minutes.

gizmo

beno619 wrote: »

7750/70 vs 7850/70.
8gb DDR5(7gb usable) vs 8gb DDR3 + 32mb ESRAM(5 usable).

the PS4 also seems to be the 1st implementation of AMD's HSA dreams with the CPU and GPU able to access the the same memory pool without copying data.

I would say its Significant and a lot of Devs think so as well.

The best way to address this is to quote the Avalanche CTO...

“It’s difficult to say, as it’s still early days when it comes to drivers,” he told us. “With each new driver release, performance increases dramatically in some areas. The PlayStation 4 environment is definitely more mature currently, so Microsoft has some catching up to do. But I’m not too concerned about that as they traditionally have been very good in that area. The specs on paper would favour the PS4 over the Xbox One in terms of raw power, but there are many other factors involved so we’ll just have to wait and see a bit longer before making that judgment.”

So yea, too early to tell based on available info and the accompanying raw figures, especially since we don't know how the eSRAM will be used. The key point being, of course, that it'll be (generally speaking) easier to extract more performance from the PS4 than Durango as it currently stands.

PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One on paper – but Microsoft will catch up, says Avalanche Studios

Captain Chaos

NTMK wrote: »

power has never decided the winner of the console war. The 360 was weaker than the ps3 the wii was weaker than both
:

Eh, no not exactly. The 360 has a more powerful GPU than the PS3 but the PS3 has the better and more powerful Cell CPU but it's overkill in the PS3 when it does not have the RAM and GPU to back it up. The 360 has 512Mb RAM to be split up anyway the developers want. The PS3 has 256 for the system and 256 for graphics textures, a limitation some developers found difficult to match with 360 games in performance and looks. The Cell is bottle necked in the PS3.

NTMK

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Eh, no not exactly. The 360 has a more powerful GPU than the PS3 but the PS3 has the better and more powerful Cell CPU but it's overkill in the PS3 when it does not have the RAM and GPU to back it up. The 360 has 512Mb RAM to be split up anyway the developers want. The PS3 has 256 for the system and 256 for graphics textures. The Cell is bottle necked in the PS3.

was that ATI card more powerful than the nVidia in the Ps3. i could have sworn it was the other way around, i havent looked at current gen specs in years tbh

evolutionqy7

EnterNow wrote: »

Oh I will, it can join all my other consoles that go back to the Atari 2600. Being a console collector, that's the fun bit! But not everyone is so inclined, and for a box that claims to be the entertainment hub...doesn't quite tie in with that ethos if you have to have your old 360 planked beside the One does it?

There's generally a role of thumb in our house. The old electronic gets passed down and reused by some one else. So in this case it will replace my little brothers Wii and PS2.

I can always pop into a different room and play it. I still have the original PlayStation under my bed. I haven't played it in years cause the graphics give me a headache but if I ever want to pull it out for the craic I can. I don't go crying that all the stuff I bought won't be compatible or la di da.

I'd say most of you should just go build yourself a gaming PC and keep yourself happy with steam .

I have a **** load of DLC bought as well, hence why I'll be keeping the 360. The little one can make use of it , or any kids that come over instead of bashing the one.

Captain Chaos

NTMK wrote: »

was that ATI card more powerful than the nVidia in the Ps3. i could have sworn it was the other way around, i havent looked at current gen specs in years tbh

Yep, it even had an additional 8Mb of ESRAM embeded on the GPU die.

As a supercomputer running simulations and the Folding at Home app with all the number crunching the Cell in the PS3 was king by a mile. But for polygon pushing and rendering the 360 had the edge.

sink

AanandTech made an interesting observation. Since the Jaguar architecture is essentially the same as what will be used in future Windows 8 Pro tablets, in 3-4 years when power constraints have been mitigated by die shrinkage it's possible we may see an Xbox One tablet, with the same performance as the console, playing the same games.

Captain Chaos

sink wrote: »

AanandTech made an interesting observation. Since the Jaguar architecture is essentially the same as what will be used in future Windows 8 Pro tablets, in 3-4 years when power constraints have been mitigated by die shrinkage it's possible we may see an Xbox One tablet, with the same performance as the console, playing the same games.

Looking at the size of the Xbox One and the fact it still has an external power brick, I'd take that with a small mountain of salt.

Die shrinkages are approaching a tough treshould right now as they are at sub nano micron size. But in saying that they said the same thing about 5 years ago and found a way to carry on with shrinking the die down.

beno619

gizmo wrote: »

The best way to address this is to quote the Avalanche CTO...



So yea, too early to tell based on available info and the accompanying raw figures, especially since we don't know how the eSRAM will be used. The key point being, of course, that it'll be (generally speaking) easier to extract more performance from the PS4 than Durango as it currently stands.

PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One on paper – but Microsoft will catch up, says Avalanche Studios

I hope it turns out to be true, but again the 360 was easier to develop for and that could be seen in the slight edge it had over the PS3 in cross platform games.

Headshot

I do have the say I love the look of the controller, looks pretty darn sweet. Pity about the rest of the console thou

NTMK

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Looking at the size of the Xbox One and the fact it still has an external power brick, I'd take that with a small mountain of salt.

the xbox one is 2.4 inches longer and same width as the 360 slim. its not that big MS just made it look fat:pac:

niallon

I'm more and more starting to like the Xbox One.

I've finally started taking it as the machine Microsoft aim for it to be. It's a new generation, but not THE new generation. Still want to play the 360? Fine. They're not ceasing support immediately for it, there's still games coming for it this Christmas (including one of the biggest games of the year GTA V)

But if you do buy the Xbox One you'll have an entertainment hub that consolidates your media into one. This is something not readily available to the majority of people who would go cross eyes at the thought of setting up their own streaming network at home etc etc.

One thing that has me thinking, if we can plug our TV box into the hdmi input and watch TV through the Xbox One.... Can't I plug my 360 into the slot instead and therefor have instant switching between the One and the 360?

In my opinion the worst thing that ever happened to the console war was all of us getting clued in on the intimate details of the specs these machines have etc etc. We should be picking the machine we prefer based on choice of games, extra features and what we think of it when we play it on a demo pod in a shop. Simple as

GottaGetGatt

Im going to be holding off for a few months anyway.With BF4 coming out October 29th for 360 and GTA 5 coming September 17.They will more than enough to keep me occupied untill i've made the decision.

DesperateDan

niallon wrote: »

But if you do buy the Xbox One you'll have an entertainment hub that consolidates your media into one. This is something not readily available to the majority of people who would go cross eyes at the thought of setting up their own streaming network at home etc etc.

EG made some very interesting points about it's media capabilities if anyone can't be bothered reading the whole article --

Microsoft wants you "to have a relationship" with your TV, and to that end, Xbox One has a new connection that no other console possesses - an HDMI input (supporting 1080p, 3D, even 4K - at least the 30Hz version of it supported in HDMI 1.4a). The idea is that you can daisy-chain your existing set-top box into the new console and seamlessly switch between TV and gameplay, and even run apps in parallel with both of them. So, for example, in theory, you can play Forza 5, switch over to watch the Formula One and take a Skype call simultaneously. Using Kinect voice control, you can also carry out functions usually achieved with a separate remote control - choosing a channel for example. And it's not just TV that's accessible either, movies, music and the internet are also available too, backed by a vision of seamless integration. The system is remarkable in action, made possible via the use of two virtual machines running in parallel, controlled by a hypervisor.

It's a fundamental part of the Xbox One proposition and its major point of differentiation with PlayStation 4. Potentially it is also its Achilles Heel, for several reasons. Firstly, Microsoft needs to be able to make this work with any and all set-top boxes in the world. Its solution appears to be the time-honoured IR blaster - a little cable plugs into the rear of the One, its emitter pointing towards the infra-red input on the set-top box. The console essentially emulates the functions of the existing remote control, relying on precise positioning to beam the signal into the IR receptor on the box. Historically it is fraught with inaccuracy, and we do wonder how Microsoft aims to address this. Secondly, the One itself has no DVR functionality, meaning that it is layering its own user interface over the existing one - not exactly a useful set-up.

More than that, the system appears to have been designed with a very specific US focus, where cable TV boxes are the norm. What about TVs with built-in decoders, either terrestrial and satellite in nature? Not everyone wants subscription TV, so not everyone has a set-top box - but they're still enjoying a large range of digital channels and a decent amount of HD programming. Perhaps more pertinently, Microsoft appears to have invested a massive amount in accommodating live TV when the overall trend is moving towards time-shifted viewing and streaming media - something it almost completely ignored in its presentation. It's a very curious decision and a massive gamble. It's clear that the firm seeks to bring gaming and other media more closely together than they ever have been but we suspect that the success of this endeavour will come down to the usefulness and desirability of the companion content that was being demonstrated. Other than that, Microsoft seemed to be suggesting that changing inputs was a massive problem for people - something we find rather hard to grasp.

WolfForager

niallon wrote: »

I'm more and more starting to like the Xbox One.

I've finally started taking it as the machine Microsoft aim for it to be. It's a new generation, but not THE new generation. Still want to play the 360? Fine. They're not ceasing support immediately for it, there's still games coming for it this Christmas (including one of the biggest games of the year GTA V)

But if you do buy the Xbox One you'll have an entertainment hub that consolidates your media into one. This is something not readily available to the majority of people who would go cross eyes at the thought of setting up their own streaming network at home etc etc.

One thing that has me thinking, if we can plug our TV box into the hdmi input and watch TV through the Xbox One.... Can't I plug my 360 into the slot instead and therefor have instant switching between the One and the 360?

In my opinion the worst thing that ever happened to the console war was all of us getting clued in on the intimate details of the specs these machines have etc etc. We should be picking the machine we prefer based on choice of games, extra features and what we think of it when we play it on a demo pod in a shop. Simple as

Do you live in the US? If not the only thing you'l be able to use this for is gaming and probably Netflix.

Pushtrak

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

wasnt aware of that apologies.

but still cant justify keeping the 360 :mad:

The amount of games you own? I think you have plenty to justify it. Though, I guess you'd make a mint if you sold your gamertag as part of the deal with the games. Though, I don't reckon you'd want to do that. Because it'd be crazy. I can't imagine giving up the 360, and I'm figuring I have less done than you.

Meesared

You cant sell a Gamertag, against the TOS

bk

The problem with the TV functionality is that most of it won't work in Ireland.

First of all MS need to add specific support for each set top box (e.g. sky, upc, etc.). So far they say they are only going to do the US and eventually rollout to the rest of the world. How long do you think it will take them to get to Ireland?

They when they do, neither any Sky box or any UPC box support HDMI-CEC, this means the Xbox One will have to control your set top box via IR blaster.

Having used IR blasters for 10 years with hacked US series one TiVo's and Windows Media Center, while fun to play with I can ensure you that IR blasters are far from reliable and are certainly not wife/girlfriend/kid friendly.

And then when you actually want to watch some non live TV on your PVR, you will have to switch to the PVR remote and interface anyway as the One won't be able to control this!

Add to that the One certainly won't be supporting the great variety of Saorview and free to air satellite receiver boxes, nor TV's with builtin saorview or freesat receivers.

The TV functionality will be close to useless here in Ireland.

listermint

bk wrote: »

The problem with the TV functionality is that most of it won't work in Ireland.

First of all MS need to add specific support for each set top box (e.g. sky, upc, etc.). So far they say they are only going to do the US and eventually rollout to the rest of the world. How long do you think it will take them to get to Ireland?

They when they do, neither any Sky box or any UPC box support HDMI-CEC, this means the Xbox One will have to control your set top box via IR blaster.

Having used IR blasters for 10 years with hacked US series one TiVo's and Windows Media Center, while fun to play with I can ensure you that IR blasters are far from reliable and are certainly not wife/girlfriend/kid friendly.

And then when you actually want to watch some non live TV on your PVR, you will have to switch to the PVR remote and interface anyway as the One won't be able to control this!

Add to that the One certainly won't be supporting the great variety of Saorview and free to air satellite receiver boxes, nor TV's with builtin saorview or freesat receivers.

The TV functionality will be close to useless here in Ireland.

Vu Duo + baby

ShiverinEskimo

WolfForager wrote: »

Do you live in the US? If not the only thing you'l be able to use this for is gaming and probably Netflix.

Do you even have a shred of evidence/quotes/official information to back such a claim up?

You don't think the fact that Xbox already have a deal with Sky might indicate that the One could at the very least work with a sky-box?

What technology do you think US cable boxes have that European equivalents don't? Do you know the comms standards of set-top boxes that say an EU tuner box couldn't possibly communicate with an Xbox?

So far since the reveal about 90% of the information being flung around is pure hyperbole and speculative bullshít by people who are just dying to hate the new Xbox.

riclad

PS4 uses 1gig for the os, xbox uses 3gig,
plus ps4 uses ddr5 ram,faster than ddr3 ram.
That alone means ps4 games could be 20 per cent faster, than xbox 1.

Whether most developers take advantage of this will be another matter,

I,D say 2gig extra ram ,makes it easier to program for,
or to put more moving objects, characters, into a scene,
eg more detailed lighting or special effects into a level.

The tv function will be just, easy switching,
from game to tv channel signal, in ireland .
Unless they bring out a special tv remote for europe,
eg there was a 360 ,dvd remote released.

Ryuji_w

I don't see how some people are seeing this as a good console for gaming not just here but on game forums aswell since if you don't use kinect,
you'll have a pretty expensive paperweight on your hands, if you live in places with dodgy internet or where internet can go out often due to storms after 24hours you'll have a gameless console/useless slab.

The whole tv thing is useless to me i either record or netfilx.

To me the xbone is coming across as a savage entertainment hub (they focus on it) but a crap games console what with all the forced gimmicks, anti-consumer issues and all the question dodging and the fact they've been contradicting each other multiple times.

while the PS4 has said it doesn't require online, gimmicks are optional and aren't required to be connected just for it to work.

so xbone is everything except games first, games second
ps4 games first everything else second