Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

Pushtrak

riclad wrote: »

PS4 uses 1gig for the os, xbox uses 3gig,
plus ps4 uses ddr5 ram,faster than ddr3 ram.

I am immediately suspicious of someone talking tech specs when they say Sony use DDR5. It's GDDR5.

WolfForager

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Do you even have a shred of evidence/quotes/official information to back such a claim up?

You don't think the fact that Xbox already have a deal with Sky might indicate that the One could at the very least work with a sky-box?

What technology do you think US cable boxes have that European equivalents don't? Do you know the comms standards of set-top boxes that say an EU tuner box couldn't possibly communicate with an Xbox?

So far since the reveal about 90% of the information being flung around by people is pure hyperbole and speculative bullshít by people who are just dying to hate the new Xbox.

Oh it's the guy whose defending MS at every turn. Hello!

It's called common bloody sense, see bk's post above mine.

90% of the information being flung around is not hyperbole. Most of us here follow other gaming forums such as NeoGaf where all of this stuff has already been confirmed from various sources, so we're taking it for granted that most other people on gaming forums are similarly informed, if you're not it's not my place to inform you, I'm not a source of news, go out and get yourself informed.

Well maybe 10% of it is hyperbole, but your statement is in fact 90% hyperbole.

Have you any idea how difficult it is to secure licencing for pretty much anything in Europe? Every country has different laws and regulators meaning that you have to go to these individually and secure licencing agreements. Organizing these sorts of features is a walk in the park in the US compared to the EU, let alone the rest of the world. And all this is without mentioning the different hardware and technical standards which vary massively around the world.

Alpha Dog 1

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Do you even have a shred of evidence/quotes/official information to back such a claim up?

You don't think the fact that Xbox already have a deal with Sky might indicate that the One could at the very least work with a sky-box?

What technology do you think US cable boxes have that European equivalents don't? Do you know the comms standards of set-top boxes that say an EU tuner box couldn't possibly communicate with an Xbox?

So far since the reveal about 90% of the information being flung around is pure hyperbole and speculative bullshít by people who are just dying to hate the new Xbox.

Well said.
The amount of bullcrap and scaremongering from people who have absolutely no interest in buying the console no matter how good is unreal.

ShiverinEskimo

WolfForager wrote: »

Oh it's the guy whose defending MS at every turn. Hello!

It's called common bloody sense, see bk's post above mine.

90% of the information being flung around is not hyperbole. Most of us here follow other gaming forums such as NeoGaf where all of this stuff has already been confirmed from various sources, so we're taking it for granted that most other people on gaming forums are similarly informed, if you're not it's not my place to inform you, I'm not a source of news, go out and get yourself informed.

Well maybe 10% of it is hyperbole, but your statement is in fact 90% hyperbole.

Have you any idea how difficult it is to secure licencing for pretty much anything in Europe? Every country has different laws and regulators meaning that you have to go to these individually and secure licencing agreements. Organizing these sorts of features is a walk in the park in the US compared to the EU, let alone the rest of the world. And all this is without mentioning the different hardware and technical standards which vary massively around the world.

So you don't have a shred of evidence then and it's based purely on your own limited interpretation of licencing laws? Grand so.

Given you obviously fail to see that the One has nothing to do with licensing and regulators to be able to act as a remote control then forgive me for calling you out on it.

The Xbox One will be subject to no more regulation than your typical AV amp or universal remote control. The HDMI 1.4 standard allows units to remote control each other - and that's a standard. So any set-top box using HDMI will have the capability to control or be controlled if it's implemented by the manufacturer and firmware.

As for you saying I'm defending MS? I'm not pro-MS, I'm anti-bullshít. Read back over my posts and you'll see I'm all about waiting for official comfirmation of anything before going full drama-queen and fleeing to Sony for a hug.

riclad

OK its called gddr5 ,
whatever you call it ,its much faster than ddr3.
The point is the ps4, will be 20- 30 per cent faster than the xbox 1.
IN the present generation , there wasnt a significant difference ,
I NEVER saw a ps3 game that looked significantly better than a 360 game.

Ravenid

I have a question you guys might be able to weigh in on.

The XBOne has a HDMI input port (For TV/NFL in North America only.)

Could this be used to hook up a 360 or would there be too much lag going through another system before display?

I know its not gonna be native support or use the same controllers but since you cant use the TV side of things outside North America anyway could this be a (Very weak I'll admit) workaround to the "Backwards compatability" issue and an actual use for the HDMI in? Or do you think they would block it?

For the record that 360 to One incompatibility is bull****. There are a butt-load (Thats a technical term meaning some to many) of 360 emulators that run on windows. All they need to do is pass the 360 games onto the Windows 8 kernel they were so happy about announcing, let that run the emulator as an app then pass the results onto the XBox One OS for gaming and display.

ahnowbrowncow

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Well said.
The amount of bullcrap and scaremongering from people who have absolutely no interest in buying the console no matter how good is unreal.

What bullcrap and scaremongering?

The only bullcrap here is xbox owners like yourself dismissing valid points about your beloved microsoft and xbox without offering any evidence to the contrary.

ShiverinEskimo

Ravenid wrote: »

I know its not gonna be native support or use the same controllers but since you cant use the TV side of things outside North America anyway could this be a (Very weak I'll admit) workaround to the "Backwards compatability" issue and an actual use for the HDMI in?

Depends on how it is implemented. It could act like an AV Amp and just offer pass-through with remote control in which case any source you put it should work- but you'd obviously need to use the 360 controllers for the 360 so I'm not sure how good it might be.

The 360 may also not be compatible with powering on by request from the HDMI port. I can't be sure but I doubt that's something the 360 can currently do.

I've little doubt set-top box suppliers and manufacturers will move to make known whether their units are controllable from the HDMI port or if the IR blaster option will need to be used.

If I decide to go for the Xbox One, I'm hoping to feed my amp's HDMI out into the Xbox One HDMI in and make us of the voice and gesture control. If it turns out my amp will also forward the remote control signals into all my other HDMI connected peripherals then I will be a very happy man.

riclad

Could you not just put the 360 on hdmi 2,or 3,or vga,
Whats the point of using the xbox 1 to display the 360 signal?
Most tvs have vga,plus 3 hd av ports.
I don,t see the point of emulators, since you can buy a preowned 360 for 100 euro.

Pushtrak

riclad wrote: »

The point is the ps4, will be 20- 30 per cent faster than the xbox 1.

From where does this 20-30% claim come from? The best write up I've seen on the Xbox One has to be this one: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one

A follow-up architecture panel hosted by Microsoft's Larry Hyrb soon put paid to the latter, more optimistic appraisal of the situation. Very early on it was established that ESRAM is indeed incorporated into the Xbox One design - essentially a large, very fast cache of embedded memory attached to the GPU and CPU that helps to make up the bandwidth deficit inherent in using slower memory. So even without direct confirmation, we now knew that the 8GB of memory in Xbox One is indeed DDR3 as opposed to the bandwidth-rich GDDR5 found in the PlayStation 4 (and Wired's internal photography of the One confirms 2133MHz DDR3 Micron modules). Xbox One may well have a latency advantage over PS4 and power consumption will probably be lower, but GPU bandwidth - a key element in graphics performance - is indeed more limited on the Microsoft hardware.

WolfForager

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

So you don't have a shred of evidence then and it's based purely on your own limited interpretation of licencing laws? Grand so.

Given you obviously fail to see that the One has nothing to do with licensing and regulators to be able to act as a remote control then forgive me for calling you out on it.

The Xbox One will be subject to no more regulation than your typical AV amp or universal remote control. The HDMI 1.4 standard allows units to remote control each other - and that's a standard. So any set-top box using HDMI will have the capability to control or be controlled if it's implemented by the manufacturer and firmware.

As for you saying I'm defending MS? I'm not pro-MS, I'm anti-bullshít. Read back over my posts and you'll see I'm all about waiting for official comfirmation of anything before going full drama-queen and fleeing to Sony for a hug.

Maybe you're selectively ignoring this, I don't know, but here it is again.

bk wrote: »

The problem with the TV functionality is that most of it won't work in Ireland.

First of all MS need to add specific support for each set top box (e.g. sky, upc, etc.). So far they say they are only going to do the US and eventually rollout to the rest of the world. How long do you think it will take them to get to Ireland?

They when they do, neither any Sky box or any UPC box support HDMI-CEC, this means the Xbox One will have to control your set top box via IR blaster.

Having used IR blasters for 10 years with hacked US series one TiVo's and Windows Media Center, while fun to play with I can ensure you that IR blasters are far from reliable and are certainly not wife/girlfriend/kid friendly.

And then when you actually want to watch some non live TV on your PVR, you will have to switch to the PVR remote and interface anyway as the One won't be able to control this!

Add to that the One certainly won't be supporting the great variety of Saorview and free to air satellite receiver boxes, nor TV's with builtin saorview or freesat receivers.

The TV functionality will be close to useless here in Ireland.

MS have secured deals with Comcast, CBS, ESPN, NFL and god knows how many others. These deals won't extend outside the US.

To offer a similar array of services (which they will have to to back up there 'all in one' claim), they will have to secure a similar suite of licencing with TV/Sports companies in every country in Europe and inevitably the World. This is what I was trying to get at in my previous post, apologies if it didn't come across that way.

In Ireland for example this would mean getting deals with RTE, TV3, The GAA and probably the IRFU and FAI. That's for one of their smallest markets in Europe, they're obviously gonna go after Germany and the UK first as they are their largest markets.

So essentially without these deals we're left with a box that can stream games, netflix, maybe some music, and we can bing cinema tickets when we feel like it. Forgive me if I'm not exactly bowled over.

And here's one article I found stating that these services will only be available in the US at launch. They mention a worldwide roll out, but when considering Ireland in the grand scheme of things, I'd be surprised to see any of this functionality ever coming here.

ShiverinEskimo

HDMI-CEC is something that could easily be implemented by Sky (possibly even via an firmware update if the hardware is dormant but capable) given there will now be serious demand for such a feature.

The Xbox One could be all it takes for HDMI-CEC to become standard on all AV equipment. (My year old Onkyo AV amp has CEC for example - I just checked thanks to this conversation).

You also have to consider their current deal with Sky that has me watching Sky via my 360. I can't see all their work on that front going out the window - I can see that being just the beginning. It's in Sky's interest to keep that going and to build on it - one of the ways they do that is to enable CEC on their boxes.

Only takes one major player to drag the industry up to a higher standard. Xbox One could be it.

EDIT - also I honestly cannot see how the licencing model you're predicting could possibly be the case.

The Xbox will be passing through the tuner's signal - they will not need individual licences from each sporting/TV entity to do that. It would be different if the unit was going to stream those services directly - but to output another set-top box's picture to a TV does not require any licencing at all. It is not acting as the tuner or a decoder. It is doing exactly what any AV amp is currently doing.

uncle_sam_ie

WolfForager wrote: »

Maybe you're selectively ignoring this, I don't know, but here it is again.




MS have secured deals with Comcast, CBS, ESPN, NFL and god knows how many others. These deals won't extend outside the US.

To offer a similar array of services (which they will have to to back up there 'all in one' claim), they will have to secure a similar suite of licencing with TV/Sports companies in every country in Europe and inevitably the World. This is what I was trying to get at in my previous post, apologies if it didn't come across that way.

In Ireland for example this would mean getting deals with RTE, TV3, The GAA and probably the IRFU and FAI. That's for one of their smallest markets in Europe, they're obviously gonna go after Germany and the UK first as they are their largest markets.

So essentially without these deals we're left with a box that can stream games, netflix, maybe some music, and we can bing cinema tickets when we feel like it. Forgive me if I'm not exactly bowled over.

And here's one article I found stating that these services will only be available in the US at launch. They mention a worldwide roll out, but when considering Ireland in the grand scheme of things, I'd be surprised to see any of this functionality ever coming here.

And, if it does come you're going to need fast internet for it to work. Which unless you live where you can get UPC it's going to end up being useless.

bk

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

What technology do you think US cable boxes have that European equivalents don't? Do you know the comms standards of set-top boxes that say an EU tuner box couldn't possibly communicate with an Xbox?

It has already been confirmed that the One will control a set top box via HDMI-CEC or IR blaster.

No Sky box supports the HDMI-CEC protocol, it is easy to check the specs online.

HDMI-CEC is far more reliable then IR blaster and more (but not all) cable boxes in the US support HDMI-CEC.

However HDMI-CEC still doesn't give you control of the PVR features of a set top box (easily confirmed by reading the spec docs of HDMI-CEC available online).

Of course it is possible that a future Sky box will have HDMI-CEC support or even that Sky might build a new Sky box which feeds an IPTV stream to the One for greater control. But no industry standard or protocol currently exists for this and MS would need to work with almost every TV broadcaster in the world to make it happen.

But stepping back from the details, you have to look at the bigger picture. Ask yourself, why don't Sky, UPC, Virgin, etc. boxes support HDMI-CEC?

It is because they precisely don't want this sort of thing to happen. They want you using their set top box and their multimedia entertainment experience, not Microsofts.

UPC have just launched a new all signing, all dancing set top box that does many of the multimedia features of the ONE. PVR, IPTV, VoD, etc.

Same with Virgin in the UK with their TiVo set top boxes. And Sky will likely go the same way.

They don't want to be pushed to the side by MS as just a dumb pipe for live TV, rightfully or wrongfully they want to be at the center of your entertainment world. It makes good business sense.

It is the same reason why Google TV with almost the exactly same functionality but for a much cheaper price of only €100 failed.

The future of TV is on demand over the internet services like Netflix, Amazon VoD, RTE Player, BBC Player, etc. All of which work perfectly well on the PS3, never mind the PS4.

The One's IR Blaster thing is dead in the real world. The only nice thing is the quick switching between games and TV, which I assume will also work similarly between games and Netflix/RTE Player/etc.

BTW I say all this as the moderator of the cable and digital TV forums here on boards, trust me I've an in-depth knowledge of the European TV industry.

Ryuji_w

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Well said.
The amount of bullcrap and scaremongering from people who have absolutely no interest in buying the console no matter how good is unreal.

ehh bullcrap, scaremongering have you been following the amount of backtracking and question dodging microsoft had been doing lately they contradict themselves all over the place.
i'm a 360 person over 80 games 50k gamerscore
ps4 5 games 2 (infamous 1/2) finished, the 3 others less than 10 hours played
the wii i got ssmb, mario kart, super mario galaxy and wii sports was fun for awhile like 2 months.
the 360 was my gaming console but now they just made a mess of what is supposed to be thier most important reveal, not only that but so many things smack of anti-consumer with this new console it's fcking stupid

ps4 on the other hand has said games games games though they do have extras but the focus is on games even the developers are siding with them, the braid creators are keeping the witness a ps4 timed exclusive because working with microsoft is a pain in the hole even indie gamers are going anywhere except ms

bk

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

HDMI-CEC is something that could easily be implemented by Sky (possibly even via an firmware update if the hardware is dormant but capable) given there will now be serious demand for such a feature.

Nope the hardware isn't there at all.

Just like it isn't in the first gen PS3's either but is in the PS3 slim.

No point in the extra chip and cost if you had no plan to use it. To be honest the lack of HDMI-CEC in Sky boxes has always been a major bug bear for me, which is why I know so much about it.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

The Xbox One could be all it takes for HDMI-CEC to become standard on all AV equipment. (My year old Onkyo AV amp has CEC for example - I just checked thanks to this conversation).

I'd love to see HDMI-CEC widely implemented, frankly it should have been a mandatory requirement of the HDMI spec from day one, rather then optional.

However you need to understand that the reason Sky and UPC boxes don't support it is philosophical, not technical.

They don't want other companies layering their user interface on top of theirs. They want their user interface to be bang smack at the center of your entertainment world.

ShiverinEskimo

bk wrote: »

It has already been confirmed that the One will control a set top box via HDMI-CEC or IR blaster.

No Sky box supports the HDMI-CEC protocol, it is easy to check the specs online.

HDMI-CEC is far more reliable then IR blaster and more (but not all) cable boxes in the US support HDMI-CEC.

However HDMI-CEC still doesn't give you control of the PVR features of a set top box (easily confirmed by reading the spec docs of HDMI-CEC available online).

Of course it is possible that a future Sky box will have HDMI-CEC support or even that Sky might build a new Sky box which feeds an IPTV stream to the One for greater control. But no industry standard or protocol currently exists for this and MS would need to work with almost every TV broadcaster in the world to make it happen.

But stepping back from the details, you have to look at the bigger picture. Ask yourself, why don't Sky, UPC, Virgin, etc. boxes support HDMI-CEC?

It is because they precisely don't want this sort of thing to happen. They want you using their set top box and their multimedia entertainment experience, not Microsofts.

UPC have just launched a new all signing, all dancing set top box that does many of the multimedia features of the ONE. PVR, IPTV, VoD, etc.

Same with Virgin in the UK with their TiVo set top boxes. And Sky will likely go the same way.

They don't want to be pushed to the side by MS as just a dumb pipe for live TV, rightfully or wrongfully they want to be at the center of your entertainment world. It makes good business sense.

It is the same reason why Google TV with almost the exactly same functionality but for a much cheaper price of only €100 failed.

The future of TV is on demand over the internet services like Netflix, Amazon VoD, RTE Player, BBC Player, etc. All of which work perfectly well on the PS3, never mind the PS4.

The One's IR Blaster thing is dead in the real world. The only nice thing is the quick switching between games and TV, which I assume will also work similarly between games and Netflix/RTE Player/etc.

BTW I say all this as the moderator of the cable and digital TV forums here on boards, trust me I've an in-depth knowledge of the European TV industry.

Informative post. Thanks.

Presumeably though Sky were very happy to work with MS before - which seems largely ignored. Sky would obviously have rathered people got multiroom from them rather than allowing it for free via Xbox no?

However reluctant TV providers might be to allow another unit take over they won't have much choice as Xboxes are sold by the million and demand for this type of functionality starts trickling in.

The overall point I'm trying to make is that people are making bold, long-term decisions on the Xbox One's capabilities with very little information to go on. I don't get the writing off of something we know very little about - especially when one of the biggest criticisms toward MS and Sony alike is just that - we know very little about them.

bk

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Presumeably though Sky were very happy to work with MS before - which seems largely ignored. Sky would obviously have rathered people got multiroom from them rather than allowing it for free via Xbox no?

True, but for the most part it was considered a failed experiment and they have been backing away from it.

UPC and Virgin went the polar opposite direction, instead bringing out their own very powerful set top boxes. Reliable rumours have it that Sky will be going the same way.

Having said that they will all likely to continue to have IPTV/VoD player apps on both the PS4 and One, as Netflix is becoming too much of a threat to their existing business model.

WolfForager

We're incredibly biased to be fair, we're seeing all this from a gaming point of view while the mainstream audience may be looking more at the all in one functionality. That being said, I can't help but feel that a large proportion, if not the majority, of people will buy the Xbox One and then get shafted once they realize none of these features are available to them. That'll leave MS with the majority of of market share, calling the shots where games are concerned and then the gamers in turn will get shafted. From my reading of things on here and NeoGaf, that seems to be general feeling.

bk

BTW I'm not saying that the Xbox One is bad, just that if you are living in Ireland I wouldn't be getting excited about the TV functionality.

Instead you should be focusing on which console has the better specs, better exclusive game library and price/launch date.

Pushtrak

WolfForager wrote: »

That being said, I can't help but feel that a large proportion, if not the majority, of people will buy the Xbox One and then get shafted once they realize none of these features are available to them.

I honestly think this fear is ill founded. To think about this, we should think, what is it that will get the mass audience to buy this? I think we can both say in this case features if we are talking about non gamers buying the system for TV stuff.

But how will these people find out about the XO? I would say it will be the advertising on TV to a wide audience. This in combination with word of mouth. The advertising here obviously isn't going to be showing ESPN et al. It'll show what it can do here. I don't think the US centric TV is going to be very influential on the mass market here. The mass market, for clarity being the non gaming media centric audience.

bk

I don't think the TV features will have a major effect on sales, even in the US.

No casual person is going to buy a $400 to $500 for a Google TV replacement.

It is the games that will sell these consoles. And so far I haven't been impressed with MS's focus on irrelevant and unreliable multimedia features over games. I think MS have made a bad strategic mistake here.

I'll wait till E3 before making judgement, but it isn't looking good for the One so far IMO.

Going by what we have seen so far I predict:

- PS4 will continue to absolutely dominate Asia.
- PS4 will sell even better in Europe then the PS3, widening the gap that was there between PS3 and Xbox360
- Harder to say but I think the US market will end up a draw between them, which would be a fall for MS from the current generation.

Part of my reasoning for the second two points above is that you have to remember the PS3 launched a year after and €200 more expensive then the 360 in US and Europe. This doesn't seem likely to happen this time, it looks like both will be out about the same time and around the same price. So the competition in EU and US will be much more intense and at least so far Sony has gotten their message right focusing on the games.

After all isn't it the games we are all here for?

WolfForager

Pushtrak wrote: »

I honestly think this fear is ill founded. To think about this, we should think, what is it that will get the mass audience to buy this? I think we can both say in this case features if we are talking about non gamers buying the system for TV stuff.

But how will these people find out about the XO? I would say it will be the advertising on TV to a wide audience. This in combination with word of mouth. The advertising here obviously isn't going to be showing ESPN et al. It'll show what it can do here. I don't think the US centric TV is going to be very influential on the mass market here. The mass market, for clarity being the non gaming media centric audience.

I can see the mainstream media here reporting on the XBone as it is reported in the States with little to no knowledge to what functionality will travel across the Atlantic. Because in all fairness the BBC and RTE have been reporting as such so far.

However if the average Joe does somehow happen to be well informed, based on what we know, the set top box stuff only being available in the US at launch, it seems to level the playing field dramatically.

Ryuji_w

This is basically how i see it
PS4 = Gaming console + media add ons. Xbox One = Media console + gaming added in.
found that on gamefaqs

i'm a gamer, i want games the other stuff is nice and all but not necessary if it's there sweet but they shouldn't be trying to force things on people.

so ultimately it boils down to which you want and whether or not you have a problem with checking in every 24hrs and if you plan to play your xbone 15 -20years from now which most likely won't happen since you'll be unable to connect to the servers and if you can play games without connecting to servers
you'll lose key features* in some games cause they were streamed to you instead of being on disc or downloaded to hard drive

* in certain games, devs choice from what i know

WolfForager

bk wrote: »

I don't think the TV features will have a major effect on sales, even in the US.

No casual person is going to buy a $400 to $500 for a Google TV replacement.

It is the games that will sell these consoles. And so far I haven't been impressed with MS's focus on irrelevant and unreliable multimedia features over games. I think MS have made a bad strategic mistake here.

I'll wait till E3 before making judgement, but it isn't looking good for the One so far IMO.

Going by what we have seen so far I predict:

- PS4 will continue to absolutely dominate Asia.
- PS4 will sell even better in Europe then the PS3, widening the gap that was there between PS3 and Xbox360
- Harder to say but I think the US market will end up a draw between them, which would be a fall for MS from the current generation.

Part of my reasoning for the second two points above is that you have to remember the PS3 launched a year after and €200 more expensive then the 360 in US and Europe. This doesn't seem likely to happen this time, it looks like both will be out about the same time and around the same price. So the competition in EU and US will be much more intense and at least so far Sony has gotten their message right focusing on the games.

After all isn't it the games we are all here for?

I'm not so sure. Companies like MS have massive market research resources and I'm sure they know what they're doing. They must have identified a gap in the market and at launch they'll focus their considerably sized marketing budget at that market.

As far as games go, I agree to an extent. The core will make their decision based on the number and the variety of exclusives. However the bulk of the population will see that FIFA, COD and Battlefield are available on both and make their decision on price and extra features.



But as as a side point, all these timed exclusives don't benefit anyone and only hurt the consumer. I fail to see the point of them, both MS and Sony have been doing this and I fail too how it has and how it will help them. So I can't buy Game A for 3 months on one console, I'll just play Game B until the Game A comes out.

FutureGuy

The general cosensus among the average joe is that One is fap material.

PhlegmyMoses

bk wrote: »

After all isn't it the games we are all here for?

Not really. Sure, the guys here are all concerned about the games but MS will be pulling the info from their servers and surveys done through Xbox Rewards etc and they'll see that the entertainment end of things has been a huge hit. The kind of people that will be attracted by these kinds of things are not the kind of people who'll be posting on gaming websites or forums.

That reveal was towards the casual gamer. Even the games they showed by EA and COD are not really for the core gamer. They are massively selling "cool" games that almost every 20 something has had a go of.

Pushtrak

Ryuji_w wrote: »

This is basically how i see it
PS4 = Gaming console + media add ons. Xbox One = Media console + gaming added in.
found that on gamefaqs

i'm a gamer, i want games the other stuff is nice and all but not necessary if it's there sweet but they shouldn't be trying to force things on people.

I couldn't care whether people assess a console as "games + media" or "media + games." What I care is the caliber and quantity of games. People seem to think the very fact something has an extra feature, it takes away from other features. No, this isn't a rope that is in a two way tie, or focused more one way or the other. There are two ropes, to pursue the metaphor*.


Ropes suck as an metaphor, but I didn't want to think about it for 10 minutes to come up with something better.

PhlegmyMoses

Pushtrak wrote: »

I couldn't care whether people assess a console as "games + media" or "media + games." What I care is the caliber and quantity of games. People seem to think the very fact something has an extra feature, it takes away from other features. No, this isn't a rope that is in a two way tie, or focused more one way or the other. There are two ropes, to pursue the analogy*.


Ropes suck as an analogy, but I didn't want to think about it for 10 minutes to come up with something better.

This is it. You're into semantics at that point. The only positive I'm seeing from Sony regarding games is the more powerful GPU and RAM and even then, we'll have to see what the devs do with either console. The games at their reveal were mostly 3rd party.

grizzly

Any word on how long Microsoft will support Live on the 360 for?