Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

Will I Amnt

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

If it isn't a mistake, you might as well get a gaming PC for that price.

Not everybody wants a gaming PC.

uncle_sam_ie

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Not everybody wants a gaming PC.

The Xboxone is basically a cheap gaming PC. Only it's locked down to squeeze money out of you.

circadian

The cloud processing is the biggest load of BS they've come out with in my opinion.

What kind of broadband connection do you need for that to work??? What about your broadband cap? Fair usage policies getting thrown around for people playing a bandwidth heavy game.

I see nothing in Sim City that a computer couldn't do without its apparent cloud computing.

Will I Amnt

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

The Xboxone is basically a cheap gaming PC. Only it's locked down to squeeze money out of you.

No it's not. It will fit under your TV in the part of your TV cabinet/stand that is purposely incorporated for DVD players/Sky boxes/games consoles.

Underpaid Mike

_Puma_ wrote: »

As for the quote from Major Nelson, Indies will end up have to use Microsoft Studios as their publisher, the same way as the current X360 set up and that didn't turn out to well for them. Of course it is speculation atm but there has been a precedent set.

Ahh cmon Puma some of those points are farcical.

• Upgrade the HD in a console to one with a faster RPM? What console on earth would allow or want that?
• How is USB charging better than the current portable one? I think its a great system personally to be able to hot swap the batteries. Works very well
• How does me ignoring the kinect remove customer choice ? Its a part of the bundle, in the same way the eye will bundled with PS4
• Cloud processing is the obvious next step. OnLive was a brilliant concept, unfortunately the hardware and broadband capability wasnt up to par and they didnt have the cash to push it to developers. A version of OnLive powered by Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/Valve whoever would be great in my eyes allowing cutting edge games for years without a hardware upgrade. Microsoft hardly built a 300,000 server datacentre to host gamer profiles did they?
• Removing choice, cant argue with you there.
• 47 million people had the choice to not pay and buy a PS3. They are happy to pay for what is a superior service. Why do people pay for netflix even though if they wanted to they could download and stream the majority of it for free (ethics aside?) its because its a brilliant service thats value for money.
• Microsoft now saying indie developers will be supported, no clue how and very little detail given. At least there is hope as opposed to the straight up no that it was assumed to this point.Link posted by someone else earlier in the discussion.
• Cloud has infinite storage, will not be an issue. They are hardly going to release a console that can only store 10 games at a time for the love of god, you may not be a microsoft fan but they did a lot of things right with the 360 so im prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt there.

A lot of the reasons you are slagging off this console are based on moral objections surrounding consumer choice or unfounded hardware complaints.

Underpaid Mike

circadian wrote: »

The cloud processing is the biggest load of BS they've come out with in my opinion.

What kind of broadband connection do you need for that to work??? What about your broadband cap? Fair usage policies getting thrown around for people playing a bandwidth heavy game.

I see nothing in Sim City that a computer couldn't do without its apparent cloud computing.

The same broadband connection that netflix uses. Would require about the same bandwidth

uncle_sam_ie

Will I Amnt wrote: »

No it's not. It will fit under your TV in the part of your TV cabinet/stand that is purposely incorporated for DVD players/Sky boxes/games consoles.

Yeah, you can already do all that with a PC. Not PC's are big and bulky. You can have a small form factor PC plugged into a 40" screen using a Xbox type controller just like the Xboxone.

circadian

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

The same broadband connection that netflix uses. Would require about the same bandwidth

Has this been confirmed anywhere?

Underpaid Mike

circadian wrote: »

Has this been confirmed anywhere?

Thats the bandwidth OnLive used so fair to think it would be on par with that. Remains to be seen

Orim

Just a thought but does it not seem like the focus on live TV is a mistake? I'm not against the Xbox as entertainment platform per say but it seems to me that general trend is away from live tv and towards on demand (Netflix being the big example)? I only have anecdotal evidence but that's how it seems.

The focus on sports suggests that MS are aware of this, as they are the main area that will always require live tv but they're pushing ahead anyway. I'll look for some figures, maybe I'm talking out of my hoop.

WolfForager

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

The same broadband connection that netflix uses. Would require about the same bandwidth

About that.... Take 10 minutes of your time and have a read of this and then get back to me.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

Underpaid Mike

WolfForager wrote: »

About that.... Take 10 minutes of your time and have a read of this and then get back to me.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming

A great read but is there any reason that in 5-10 years time the Xbox1 just doesnt become a dummy box with all the computation done in the cloud and just the output streamed to the console in the exact same way as onlive did it? That was all I was hinting at.

WolfForager

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

A great read but is there any reason that in 5-10 years time the Xbox1 just doesnt become a dummy box with all the computation done in the cloud and just the output streamed to the console in the exact same way as onlive did it? That was all I was hinting at.

Potentially, but we'd be assuming that everyone who owned a Xbone would have a Google Fiber like internet connection.

Also alot can change in that timeframe, MS don't have the luxury of waiting that long. Already OnLive and the Sony owned Gakai can let you stream games over your internet browser. Why the hell would I buy 200 euro in 6 years for a box that does it in a more complicated fashion?

RossFixxxed

I'm a huge Xbox fan, but a lot of crappy practices are rife as it is and rather than being addressed they seem to be spreading:

Mandatory Installs, these were a disaster on the PS3 and could take a huge amount of time, so easier on PC.
Cloud saves: incredibly slow on my broadband game hangs for ages in some cases.
DRM: now more prohibitive than ever.
MS Points: the least subtle scam ever, glad this is going finally. Good news.
Those damn codes: Every game witha big long code to type in, almost punishing the person who paid full price for the thing. Pain the ass.
Games on demand: Dark Souls just releasted, 2 years after its release. Skyrim 8 months or so and is 70 euro. They'll monopolise on this.

Objections around consumer choice are relevant factors. Can't comment on unfounded hardware issues.

It's a case of this: they had a huge event to unveil this and were either confirming fears (of mine, just things I personally hate) or being rather vague to the point of being obtuse.

And we only got to see Forza ... AGAIN, and some FMV junk. Not great at all.

We now have all the rubbish the PC has (DRM etc) but none of the mods, cracks or community. Great.

I can't afford to pay my Gold at the moment and I can't play online anymore, I can't use youtube etc. I BOUGHT those games with my money and have to leave them on the shelf? That's not an issue for Wii U or the PS3 and maybe PS4....

It feels like I'm being robbed by MS on this. Maybe they're being brilliant to me, but as their PAYING customer I'm feeling totally ripped off.

I've played about 150+ 360 games, none are now backwards compatible, and more and more the whole thing feels like one big EA-like scam TO ME.

Underpaid Mike

WolfForager wrote: »

Potentially, but we'd be assuming that everyone who owned a Xbone would have a Google Fiber like internet connection.

Also alot can change in that timeframe, MS don't have the luxury of waiting that long. Already OnLive and the Sony owned Gakai can let you stream games over your internet browser. Why the hell would I buy 200 euro in 6 years for a box that does it in a more complicated fashion?

Exclusive content I assume?
I think onLive is already pretty much dead at this point now isnt it? Cash flow issues
Could also be a way to "play" 360/PS3 games on the new consoles, simply stream the output and do the computing in the cloud.

Will I Amnt

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

Yeah, you can already do all that with a PC. Not PC's are big and bulky. You can have a small form factor PC plugged into a 40" screen using a Xbox type controller just like the Xboxone.

A lot of people just want a console without all the hassle that goes with PC.

_Puma_

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Ahh cmon Puma some of those points are farcical.

• Upgrade the HD in a console to one with a faster RPM? What console on earth would allow or want that?Umm the PS3 allow you to upgrade to a 7200 RPM HDD or a SSD improving performance, not sure if I understand your confusion there
• How is USB charging better than the current portable one? I think its a great system personally to be able to hot swap the batteries. Works very wellCheaper, I have loads of micro USB cables lying around at home so I don't have to buy the proprietary one. At the end of the day it is the same interface, just a different adapter. Removable batteries are nice but only being able to charge them through a proprietary adapter is not.
• How does me ignoring the kinect remove customer choice ? Its a part of the bundle, in the same way the eye will bundled with PS4I cant use the console unless the Kinect is actively using up resources doing things i dont want or need it to do. The PS4 eye doesn't need an entire OS hogged up for itself to operate
• Cloud processing is the obvious next step. OnLive was a brilliant concept, unfortunately the hardware and broadband capability wasnt up to par and they didnt have the cash to push it to developers. A version of OnLive powered by Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/Valve whoever would be great in my eyes allowing cutting edge games for years without a hardware upgrade. Microsoft hardly built a 300,000 server datacentre to host gamer profiles did they?Agreed it is the next step but this is not what the X1 will do. If history has though us anything you will see these sort of things being executed on the PC a long time before we see it on consoles. As for the servers I'm sure a lot of data is being stored besides gamer tags, as you said cloud storage, which is not cloud processing(Gakai, onLive), you understand the conceptual difference between a cloud enabled data centre(Great for scalability) and a cloud gaming service. MS probably has cloud friendly Data-centres but it does not mean Cloud gaming in the true sense of the word
• Removing choice, cant argue with you there.
• 47 million people had the choice to not pay and buy a PS3. They are happy to pay for what is a superior service. Why do people pay for netflix even though if they wanted to they could download and stream the majority of it for free (ethics aside?) its because its a brilliant service thats value for money.Are you forgetting that netflix was on the PS3 long before the Xbox. 47 million people bought the Xbox because of the early third party exclusives and the fact that the Xbox was a superior games machine. The games make or break a games console, see the WiiU
• Microsoft now saying indie developers will be supported, no clue how and very little detail given. At least there is hope as opposed to the straight up no that it was assumed to this point.Link posted by someone else earlier in the discussion.Aye by only allowing Indie developers to self publish under Microsoft studios under restrictive terms, has happened already with the X360. Yet to read anything to contradict this and a lot of Indies are not happy about it
• Cloud has infinite storage, will not be an issue. They are hardly going to release a console that can only store 10 games at a time for the love of god, you may not be a Microsoft fan but they did a lot of things right with the 360 so im prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt there.Agreed and when did I say I was not a Microsoft fan, I just don't agree with many of the policies they are taking with the X1. In fact my profession requires me to use the MS Dev suite so it is in my interests that MS succeeds.

A lot of the reasons you are slagging off this console are based on moral objections surrounding consumer choice or unfounded hardware complaints.

How is the complaint about the console being 20% -30% less powerful than the PS4 an unfounded hardware complaint?

Meesared

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Exclusive content I assume?
I think onLive is already pretty much dead at this point now isnt it? Cash flow issues
Could also be a way to "play" 360/PS3 games on the new consoles, simply stream the output and do the computing in the cloud.

Nope its still going! Was bought there recently, and its debt sorted I think

ahnowbrowncow

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

A great read but is there any reason that in 5-10 years time the Xbox1 just doesnt become a dummy box with all the computation done in the cloud and just the output streamed to the console in the exact same way as onlive did it? That was all I was hinting at.

Not going to happen, the average internet speed in the US is around 7.2Mb (who knows what Irelands is), even if in 5-10 years the average speed was 100Mb it would still be far too slow.

This cloud computing is just marketing fluff from microsoft to try fill the gap in performance between the xbox one and ps4

Underpaid Mike

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Not going to happen, the average internet speed in the US is around 7.2Mb (who knows what Irelands is), even if in 5-10 years the average speed was 100Mb it would still be far too slow.

This cloud computing is just marketing fluff from microsoft to try fill the gap in performance between the xbox one and ps4

OnLive which plays current gen games requires a 1mb internet connection.
All computing is done in the cloud and the video is compressed and then streamed to your tv with little to no lag. Its an amazing service considering whats happening in the background and doesnt require a fast internet connection at all.

Far from fluff as you put it, have a read about how it works before dismissing it

Pushtrak

RossFixxxed wrote: »

Mandatory Installs, these were a disaster on the PS3 and could take a huge amount of time, so easier on PC.

Installation is far more important with blu-ray than DVD. Time? It installs while you play in case you were thinking you'd have to wait till the installation was done.

Meesared

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Not going to happen, the average internet speed in the US is around 7.2Mb (who knows what Irelands is), even if in 5-10 years the average speed was 100Mb it would still be far too slow.

This cloud computing is just marketing fluff from microsoft to try fill the gap in performance between the xbox one and ps4

Sony are pushing cloud gaming on the PS4 heavily, (and it is how they are going to achieve backwards compatibility with the PS4) I'm not sure why its not plausible to do something similar on the Xbox

ShiverinEskimo

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

OnLive which plays current gen games requires a 1mb internet connection.
All computing is done in the cloud and the video is compressed and then streamed to your tv with little to no lag. Its an amazing service considering whats happening in the background and doesnt require a fast internet connection at all.

Far from fluff as you put it, have a read about how it works before dismissing it

Onlive is streaming user input up, and video down. Heavily compressed video at that. Using the cloud for computational processes while the bulk of the processing is done on the console is an entirely different story.

Read the Eurogamer link posted to you above. Explains just how different and more connection-dependant it would be compared to OnLive.

Meesared

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Onlive is streaming user input up, and video down. Heavily compressed video at that. Using the cloud for computational processes while the bulk of the processing is done on the console is an entirely different story.

Read the Eurogamer link posted to you above. Explains just how different and more connection-dependant it would be compared to OnLive.

Theyre basing a lot of that on guesswork though, they don't know how its gonna work, I'd think MS have a better idea, and if its feasible or not

ShiverinEskimo

Yep. They've admitted it won't be for real-time computation according to that link. They'll be doing a lot of the work typically done in a loading screen. At least that's how I read it.

NTMK

Orim wrote: »

True to an extent but they weren't doing it at the start. Plus Apple is somewhat anomalous in the kind of brand loyalty it has inspired. Look at the fact ipod is now synonymous with mp3 player, at least in most people's eyes.

apple are in the same place regarding their products as MS/Sony imo. and the way apple sell their products despite the anti consume practises, their dodgy ethics, their tax dodging and the fact their always a lower spec than their competitors


Playstation and Xbox are as synonymous with Games Consoles as ipod is with mp3 players

and i can guarantee that if every single fence sitter boycotted the console they will still sell out the what I estimate 5 million units.There are enough fanboys and uninformed customers to sell out that many units. Fanboys are loyal idiots. Ive seen people on many forums think that the sun shines out of sonys arse and will say that the PS4 is the most powerful console even if it had the power of a Casio calculator and required you to be frisked before you started playing

Orim

NTMK wrote: »

Playstation and Xbox are as synonymous with Games Consoles as ipod is with mp3 players

I don't know. My mam still calls them a nintendo.

uncle_sam_ie

Will I Amnt wrote: »

A lot of people just want a console without all the hassle that goes with PC.

It's a lot less hassle than you might think. DIY PC's have come a long way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh455l3348s

Underpaid Mike

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/xbox-one-breaks-pre-order-records-at-blockbuster/0116237

The internet may have spent the majority of last week shouting loudly at Microsoft, but it seems that the view of the average consumer is far more positive.

Blockbuster has revealed that since its announcement last week the Xbox One has broken all previous pre-order launches in Blockbuster’s 24-year history.

“We are delighted by the huge number of pre orders that we have received so far for the new Microsoft console,” the retailer’s head of games James Morton stated.

“At Blockbuster, we have a fantastic array of adrenaline-fuelled console games for sale or rental. Our expert staff know gaming and they know consoles and these pre-orders are testament to our customers’ trust in us as a leading gaming retailer.

“With Sony releasing the PS4 in the near future, the next few months are going to be an exciting time for our staff and customers at Blockbuster and we can’t wait to hear more details from both Sony and Microsoft at the E3 Expo next month.”

gizmo

_Puma_ wrote: »

How is the complaint about the console being 20% -30% less powerful than the PS4 an unfounded hardware complaint?

Because there is still a bunch of important information regarding the XBox One hardware still to be released. Things like the actual speed of the cores in the CPU, the bandwidth of the eSRAM and how it will be used across the system and how important the data move engines will be.