Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

H3llR4iser

H3llR4iser wrote: »

This is just a "DRM is BAD!" point of view, with no reason nor reasoning given about WHY it is. Besides all the banter, usually sustained by nothing other than "everybody says so!", the truth is that the Xbox One system will change exactly nothing for the vast majority of people who, like you and me, just buy the games either in brick and mortar or online stores and play them.

You know, I would have agreed with you a few weeks ago. But the more I think about it, the more it reminds me of Microsoft ripping me off in other ways. For example: I can only add 16gb at a time to my 4gb xbox no matter how big the hdd is. I understand that Microsoft wants me to buy their own peripheral, but to purposely gimp the console like that in an effort to make money? Not to mention that I've been paying for 2 xbox live accounts for about 3 years, without even a hint of rewards or free games/points such as Sony are doing.

Why are we to believe that this time will be any less annoying? There'll be more gimping issues for the sake of making money for microsoft, and they will try and milk me for everything I can spend. And I know the PS will probably be the same, but this continued in-your-face hostility towards customers such as myself has turned me right off. I would hope Sony can go about ripping me off in more subtle ways.


Edit: And this is from someone who hardly buys used games and who always has his console connected to the internet.

Stone Deaf 4evr

RasTa wrote: »

It's pointless and not worth my time to respond. The scenario he outlined, waffling on about phones and tablets(when discussing consoles)

I'm not even sure of the excuse he is trying to make his points are so all over the place.

I'm a casual gamer who owns both a 360 and PS3 so only care about games. I buy most of my games on the PSN network anyway(indie titles) but someone coming up with logic for this MS DRM makes me laugh and and ain't going to debate it it as I mentioned there is no positive spin that anybody can try and come up with.

If you take the time to read the post properly, you'll realise that we're all on the same page here, DRM has been around since the days of monkey island on ancient PC's where you had to use a spinning wheel code decrypter thing to get the game to work.

The point we're making about digital licences is that this isnt new but its the first time we've seen it on consoles. The reason people are getting up in arms about it is because they're so used to getting media one way (via shop bought discs) they cant get their head around not being able to resell them. If you buy an album on itunes and dont like it, you cant trade it, swap it or sell it - consoles are just going the same way. when the ipod came out you just accepted that this was how it works.

I personally think that the days of the physical disc are numbered, and eventually the idea of selling your digital stuff is going to fade into the background. nobody expects to sell games they buy from the marketplace on xbox live.

Microsofts problem is that they're the first to introduce it to the console stage, they've also done it in a fashion that seems decidedly sneaky and have lost their customers trust as a result.

maximoose

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Not to mention that I've been paying for 2 xbox live accounts for about 3 years, without even a hint of rewards or free games/points such as Sony are doing. .

There is the xbox rewards thing, but its pretty measly. 200MS points for a years Live renewal I think? pfft.

Stone Deaf 4evr

evolutionqy7 wrote: »

This guy needs to go. Think he has gotten too arrogant with his position


Xbox chief: we have a product for people who can't get online, it's called Xbox 360


http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/12/don-mattrick-xbox-360-offline/

saw that this morning, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The US public in general, regardless of how they feel about foreign conflicts, are HUGELY supportive of their armed forces and the troops on the ground. comments like that could be incredibly damaging for them.

Cork24

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Lying sh1tes

http://www.t3.com/news/sony-admits-the-ps4-does-feature-drm

Either way you dont need to be online to play games on the PS4

Hands down PS4 for me

Headshot

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Lying sh1tes

http://www.t3.com/news/sony-admits-the-ps4-does-feature-drm

Technically it still isnt going to be DRM. No third party will inforce it I reckon

Did you know the ps3 devs also had the feature to lock the region on their ps3 games but afaik no one did

Cienciano

H3llR4iser wrote: »

This is just a "DRM is BAD!" point of view, with no reason nor reasoning given about WHY it is. Besides all the banter, usually sustained by nothing other than "everybody says so!", the truth is that the Xbox One system will change exactly nothing for the vast majority of people who, like you and me, just buy the games either in brick and mortar or online stores and play them.

The tablet and smartphone part is not waffle, it's called "examples". They are devices that are pricey and totally tied to a service provider. Take them offline and their use is essentially that of a doorstop. It's a very similar concept to what is being introduced with Xbox One, yet people not only have nothing to complain about, they swear by Apple/Google, in the most typical showing of use of different measures.

I always buy new games, but I can still see that DRM isn't a good thing. It won't effect me either, but surely you can see it's bad for a lot of people?
A tablet is generally used for browsing the net, a smartphone is a phone. That's why they need network connections. And there's lots you can do with them, depending on what you've loaded onto them, when you're in an area with no internet. You're not comparing like with like.
The problem with the xbox needing an internet connection is that it's a games console. It shouldn't need one. Imagine your TV stopped working because it didn't get it's daily fix of internet connection. Lots of people play single player games. GTA and Skyrim are both massive single player games that can keep you going for months. You shouldn't need the internet to play them.
Obviously this won't effect everyone, but my internet has gone down before, the idea that I couldn't play Skyrim because my internet is down is ridiculous.

Will I Amnt

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Lying sh1tes

http://www.t3.com/news/sony-admits-the-ps4-does-feature-drm

"Similar to PS3, we will not dictate the online used game strategy (the ability to play used games online) of its publishing partners," he added.

Sounds to me like it will be no different to how things are currently done.
You buy a second hand Battlefield 4, you need to buy a code to play online. There's nothing stopping you playing single player offline.

FlyingIrishMan

141_Oscar_Mike wrote: »

Lying sh1tes

http://www.t3.com/news/sony-admits-the-ps4-does-feature-drm

Such a sensationalist title. Nothing but click bait.

evolutionqy7

Cienciano wrote: »

I always buy new games, but I can still see that DRM isn't a good thing. It won't effect me either, but surely you can see it's bad for a lot of people?
A tablet is generally used for browsing the net, a smartphone is a phone. That's why they need network connections. And there's lots you can do with them, depending on what you've loaded onto them, when you're in an area with no internet. You're not comparing like with like.
The problem with the xbox needing an internet connection is that it's a games console. It shouldn't need one.

It's an online games console. Tbh I wouldn't play games if multi player wasn't available. While I don't agree with the requirement, its not going to bother me.

Second of all, tablets and smartphone a like have certain games where the publisher well implement a a purchase verification. If the app fails to check in 3 times the games stop working, till it can check in. Not all games do it, but there is a handful of them. Mainly all due to piracy.

AirDemon

I really don't see the benefit of the online checks daily. I understand the reasoning behind it but because of the amount of people it's going to annoy it doesn't seem like a financially smart move.

If the X1 had decided to go with a check-in every time the console was connected to the internet then that would be fine with me and I would probably just buy one but I plan on moving home next year, into a new house and that will most likely leave me without internet for a month. Usually when sometime like this happens I increase the amount I'll play my console, with the X1 I'll not be able to play it at all.

From what I've read the reasoning for the daily check is to make sure you've not sold your licence within the last 24 hours but would it not be enough to just check all your licences whenever you had an internet connection available. Surely the amount of money lost on people annoyed by this is far greater than the amount of money Microsoft will make back from people who are willing to keep their console offline forever.

bk

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Sounds to me like it will be no different to how things are currently done.
You buy a second hand Battlefield 4, you need to buy a code to play online. There's nothing stopping you playing single player offline.

EA and Sony have both announced that they are dropping the codes to play second hand games online. Seems the experiment was a failure, unpopular and didn't make them money.

There is a much more detailed and less sensationalist article about the issue here with another Sony exec:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-11-the-big-interview-sonys-jim-ryan-on-ps4-drm-and-the-next-gen-console-war

Eurogamer: I know that Sony isn't restricting what third-party publishers do, like it did with the PS3 - nothing has changed in that regard. And you're dropping Online Passes altogether. But what happens if a major publisher decides they want to block second-hand trading of PlayStation 4 games - is there nothing you can do about that, because that would not tally with your philosophy?

Jim Ryan: Our philosophy remains unchanged, so don't worry about that. We will not be implementing Online Pass or any kind of variant of that for our own self-published games. If a third-party publisher wants to do something server-side with their own content, there's not much we can do about that.

From what I'm hearing, the tide, certainly on current-gen, is moving away from that Online Pass - I know two or three publishers that have dropped it.

Eurogamer: What's the feeling within Sony - what are the third-party publishers going to do? Do you think they're going to risk a backlash among hardcore gamers by restricting second-hand games on PlayStation 4, or do you think they're not going to do it at all?

Jim Ryan: I don't think that they will do it, but that's an opinion - I can't speak for the publishers, I certainly wouldn't do that. I don't think that they will do it.

Basically what we're providing with PlayStation 4 is the same environment that existed with PlayStation 3, and that model - that Online Pass model - hasn't been particularly successful, either in terms of the impact on the relationship between the publisher and their consumers or, from what we understand, in financial terms.

Eurogamer: Do you think publishers, and I guess Sony has got it, that it's not good business to try and restrict the second-hand market? Do you think it actually benefits the sale of new games in the long-run - promotes a healthy industry?

"The video gaming ecosystem is a complicated and really rather fragile one, and it's certainly the case that second-hand games play a really important role."

Jim Ryan: The video gaming ecosystem is a complicated and really rather fragile one, and it's certainly the case that second-hand games play a really important role. Look at a market like the UK, which remains our biggest market in Europe, and a very, very fragile retail environment. Those guys need [owned] games to - they're a critical source of revenue and of cash and profit.

But if you stand back, the key thing is just to grow the installed base as big as possible, and if you do that, then everybody can make money. I can't speak for anybody else, but if you start putting constraints which might make a small piece of the pie more lucrative to certain stakeholders, that means that the overall pie is only half the size that it might have been. And that's a pretty dumb thing to have done.

To wind it back: our philosophy is to do what's right by the gamer.

Stone Deaf 4evr

AirDemon wrote: »

If the X1 had decided to go with a check-in every time the console was connected to the internet then that would be fine with me and I would probably just buy one but I plan on moving home next year, into a new house and that will most likely leave me without internet for a month. Usually when sometime like this happens I increase the amount I'll play my console, with the X1 I'll not be able to play it at all.

Exactly, the 360 checks for updates every time you log on with a game anyway, so why cant it be the same? I dont mind it checking if I have a licence, but every 24 hours is just too restrictive. you should be able to play single player, offline to your hearts content, but lock out the multiplayer.

bk

Mobile and tablet gaming is very different.

First of all, there is no 24 hour checkin for the majority of games, once you have installed a game you can put it in airplane mode and play it for ever. It never stops working.

In fact this is important in mobile gaming as people might go days with no internet access, for instance when on holiday abroad.

Steam works in a similar way, once you have installed the game, it never checks again.

The other point to keep in mind is that mobile tablet games typically cost about €1 to €5. There are for the most part impulse buys and can be thrown away/forgotten about when people are finished with them. This is why people don't mind that you can't sell them second hand.

Steam is similar with the majority of games being bought as part of 50 to 75% off sales and bundle sales.

When you ask people to spend €60 that is a totally different story. €60 is a major investment and people don't feel comfortable spending that sort of money without knowing they have a safety net to get most of it back if they don't like the game or finish it very quickly.

There are many gamers who buy a new game almost every month. They buy the game, play it for a few weeks and then trade it in for the next new game. This allows them to play 12 or more new games per year. If they can't sell old games, then they can only afford to buy 3 or 4 games a year.

This could lead to gamers suffering (get to play less games) and also to the game industry suffering (people only spend their money on the absolutely top sure thing games and don't take a risk on less well known titles).

This could also lead to less variety of interesting games as companies focus exclusively on just rehashing their top titles (Fifa, COD, etc.) and not risk doing anything new.

Now if you were to tell me that X1 games were going to cost €20 to €30 then ok, killing off the second hand industry wouldn't be a big deal. But MS are still looking for €60 for these games!

bk

It is interesting to note that in the interview with the Sony exec Jack Trent, that he said people should just compare the multi-platform games on both consoles when they come out.

He seems to be very confident that multi-platform games will look better on the PS4.

Dyr

bk wrote: »

It is interesting to note that in the interview with the Sony exec Jack Trent, that he said people should just compare the multi-platform games on both consoles when they come out.

He seems to be very confident that multi-platform games will look better on the PS4.

Linky?

DARK-KNIGHT

bk wrote: »

Mobile and tablet gaming is very different.

First of all, there is no 24 hour checkin for the majority of games, once you have installed a game you can put it in airplane mode and play it for ever. It never stops working.

In fact this is important in mobile gaming as people might go days with no internet access, for instance when on holiday abroad.

Steam works in a similar way, once you have installed the game, it never checks again.

The other point to keep in mind is that mobile tablet games typically cost about €1 to €5. There are for the most part impulse buys and can be thrown away/forgotten about when people are finished with them. This is why people don't mind that you can't sell them second hand.

Steam is similar with the majority of games being bought as part of 50 to 75% off sales and bundle sales.

When you ask people to spend €60 that is a totally different story. €60 is a major investment and people don't feel comfortable spending that sort of money without knowing they have a safety net to get most of it back if they don't like the game or finish it very quickly.

There are many gamers who buy a new game almost every month. They buy the game, play it for a few weeks and then trade it in for the next new game. This allows them to play 12 or more new games per year. If they can't sell old games, then they can only afford to buy 3 or 4 games a year.

This could lead to gamers suffering (get to play less games) and also to the game industry suffering (people only spend their money on the absolutely top sure thing games and don't take a risk on less well known titles).

This could also lead to less variety of interesting games as companies focus exclusively on just rehashing their top titles (Fifa, COD, etc.) and not risk doing anything new.

Now if you were to tell me that X1 games were going to cost €20 to €30 then ok, killing off the second hand industry wouldn't be a big deal. But MS are still looking for €60 for these games!

where are you getting the 60 euro figure from? its well noted the xbox one games will be 75 euro... gamestop manager in kildare confirmed that earlier too he has been told 70-75 per new release

gizmo

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

where are you getting the 60 euro figure from? its well noted the xbox one games will be 75 euro... gamestop manager in kildare confirmed that earlier too he has been told 70-75 per new release

Games were around €75 when the 360 and PS3 were released too but they dropped shortly afterwards.

What will be interesting to see is if they drop as quickly or as much on the platform now that trade-ins will be restricted in such a manner.

DARK-KNIGHT

gizmo wrote: »

Games were around €75 when the 360 and PS3 were released too but they dropped shortly afterwards.

What will be interesting to see is if they drop as quickly or as much on the platform now that trade-ins will be restricted in such a manner.

well apparently that is what we can expect to pay long term.. if that is the case and i cant trade games etc then my mind is made up.... never thought i would say it but the PS 4 looks the better buy by a country mile...

Pushtrak

Retailers aren't in the business of saying 'We plan on reducing prices" ever. Anyone who is thinking of buying a One, I'd seriously recommend not going for it day one unless there are titles you *really* want on launch. Just see how things play out. See how much titles are released for digitally, and how retail competes, or if they even have to. The thing is though, the One doesn't exist in a vacuum. You can bet whatever the cost of the games on the One are, the PS4 will be around the same, though. Just something to bear in mind. If that is the case, what then? What if the prices don't drop to 60 as we'd expect? Are most people here going to buy primarily used games? Or just wait for discounts?

bk

Bambi wrote: »

Linky?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqVFjCLWtpk

Jump to 6:20 for the relevant part, though the whole interview is interesting.

Here is the quote:

The PS4 is the most powerful machine hands down, but I hate talking the talking without walking the walk, talk to the 3rd party development community and I encourage people to look at games side by side from third party publishers and tell me which game looks more impressive to you on which platform.

That seems to be very strong, confident talk to me.

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

where are you getting the 60 euro figure from? its well noted the xbox one games will be 75 euro... gamestop manager in kildare confirmed that earlier too he has been told 70-75 per new release

God, so it will be even worse then I mentioned.

Pushtrak

Amazon have them at £55 which is 65 euros. Keeping in mind that historically the prices have come down after release, I think it's looking ok for now, as long as precedent is followed.

evolutionqy7

If the price of games is going to be 60-70 for a new game I'll be using that 500 euro to upgrade my desktop

DARK-KNIGHT

guy i know works in microsoft in sandyford industrial estate....

he said that we are being foolish to think sony wont follow suit in a few months with developers charging to activate used games...

he said fees will not be excessive and that the used game market is far from finished.. which is a positive for us xbox users...

i am yet again swaying to xbox... i trust the live service and have had years of fabulous gaming thanks to microsoft.....

ahnowbrowncow

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

guy i know works in microsoft in sandyford industrial estate....

he said that we are being foolish to think sony wont follow suit in a few months with developers charging to activate used games...

he said fees will not be excessive and that the used game market is far from finished.. which is a positive for us xbox users...

i am yet again swaying to xbox... i trust the live service and have had years of fabulous gaming thanks to microsoft.....

So you believe a guy who works with Microsoft, who claims things about sony but he has nothing to do with sony? Naive or what.

RasTa

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

guy i know works in microsoft in sandyford industrial estate....

he said that we are being foolish to think sony wont follow suit in a few months with developers charging to activate used games...

he said fees will not be excessive and that the used game market is far from finished.. which is a positive for us xbox users...

i am yet again swaying to xbox... i trust the live service and have had years of fabulous gaming thanks to microsoft.....

Oh well if some random employee said so, what does he do there anyway? You honestly think after Sony making this giant statement that they are somewhat lying?

Otacon

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

guy i know works in microsoft in sandyford industrial estate....

he said that we are being foolish to think sony wont follow suit in a few months with developers charging to activate used games...

he said fees will not be excessive and that the used game market is far from finished.. which is a positive for us xbox users...

i am yet again swaying to xbox... i trust the live service and have had years of fabulous gaming thanks to microsoft.....

I smell something...

Varik

Otacon wrote: »

I smell something...

If there's any swearing in a link Boards censors it which means the link won't work.

Otacon

Varik wrote: »

If there's any swearing in a link Boards censors it which means the link won't work.

And I thought I would try to be funny. That's me schooled.

top madra

I will buy the console that all my friends are playing on and so far that looks like the Xbox.

All I want to do is play 64 player battlefield, so I really couldn't care about the price of games because I won't be buying others.

A guy asked earlier was there a way to hook a Xbox controller to the play station and yes you can through a xim3 or xim edge.
They will cost you about a 100e but at least there wouldn't be any dead zones.