Xbox One - General Discussion (NO DISCUSSION REGARDING PS4 - MOD WARNING Post 6903)

Captain Chaos

Think there are about 5-6 guys on here confirming their pre-orders so far for the XBO in the pre order poll thread. Gamescon may change that for better or worse after the E3 aftermath.

mark_m360

miralize wrote: »

Is anyone here actually buying it from what they've heard so far? Microsoft could backtrack on a few things... but not on the ones that matter

I have a pre-order down with GameStop but I also have a pre-order down for a PS4.

As it stands, I am going to get the PS4 as I think if the X1 sales start poorly, they will be forced to listen to consumers to change some of their policies. They don't exactly affect me but I would rather not support them as I think the online every 24hours is completely unwarranted.

Don Mattrick & Phil Spencer have shown complete contempt and arrogance for their customers by saying respectively, stick with the 360 if you have internet, and if you have no internet then the Xbox one is not a console for you.

They have completely lost touch with their fan base.

AirDemon

One of the reasons for the push towards digital downloads I've heard is that it will mean that there will be more money for publishers & developers and that way prices can fall. That's the biggest load of rubbish I've ever heard.

If Microsoft and the rest wanted to push people towards digital downloads then forcing people isn't the way to do it, the way to do it is to make it more appealing to the customer. Xbox Marketplace is a complete joke, there are games on there for 40-60 bucks that are years old and that you can pick up for 5-10 quid in a gamestop. If they wanted to cut out the middle man then the smart thing to do would be to undercut the prices of the disks.

Sure you'll get some people that still want to buy the disk but slowly it'll move towards people downloading and this was you don't get anyone annoyed and lose customers which the X1 will.

They should make it possible to do the 24 hour check in with an app or email of some kind.. Like you can connect a device by usb or over the home network and it sends an encrypted file. Save a lot of hassle if the broadband is down but 3g is still fine.

I live in VN and with the frequency of changes the government makes to the internet, I couldn't risk the purchase unless I could check in through a proxy/3g.

maximoose

Anonymous Xbox engineer explains DRM

NTMK

maximoose wrote: »

Anonymous Xbox engineer explains DRM

Hes either a troll, a fanboy or an idiot. his understanding of steam is blatently poor. The idea that the cost of games will go down on a closed system with the retailers being restricted. IE being good in any way shape or form:rolleyes:


he does have the same condescending tone that MS have at executive level though

FlyingIrishMan

Steam does not require you to log in every 24 hours, thats the main fact everybody leaves out when comparing steam to the X1. People say that you have to log in every 2 weeks, you don't. The only time you ever have to log in is when you are downloading a game.

Tony EH

beercr8te wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5yC8FbgGnd0

These people are the ****ers who are destroying gaming.

You know what, there's also the PS4. Which a LOT of xboxers will be moving to, including myself.

I simply cannot believe the spectacular own goal that MS has performed here. It's truly staggering. It's like Sony sent a spy in to act like a MS exec and sabotaged everything.

Incredible.

ShiverinEskimo

NTMK wrote: »

The idea that the cost of games will go down on a closed system with the retailers being restricted.

Very few retailers even bother storing PC games these days. Steam is a successful platform and did drive down the cost of games.

Have a look in the Gaming Bargains (Not Freebies) thread over in Games and you'll see consistent cheap deals from various sites selling codes for steam at knock-down prices. I haven't paid full price for a PC game in years. Even for new releases (picked up Bioshock Infinite for 27 euro on release).

Even when people accuse steam of ripping people off for new games at €49.99 it is still cheaper than the console eqivalent. Not to mention generally playable in proper full HD with richer textures.

If even parts of what that guy claims is true - that they are trying to shift to a digital platform then it is good news for gamers. The reason digital copies are so expensive is because b+m shops threatened to stop selling the consoles if Xbox Live undercut them for the games. Nowadays people buy more of their electronics online and in non-traditional/electronics outlets (Tescos for example) and suddenly the B+M game shops don't have as much sway as they used to. If gamestop died tomorrow I wouldn't be stuck trying to get my hands on a PS4 or X1.

The best solution for gamers is a total switch to digital and the end of discs as that will drive costs down and hence prices.

If MS can work out a somewhat fair way for people to trade their digital copies or transfer the licence to a friend then I'm all ears.

Rascasse

I still don't think the PS4 will be the DRM nirvana that everyone seems to think. Either third party games will be DRM'd with restricted trade ins or the games will be more expensive. The publishers will get their money, one way or another.

Deano7788

Tony EH wrote: »

These people are the ****ers who are destroying gaming.

You know what, there's also the PS4. Which a LOT of xboxers will be moving to, including myself.

I simply cannot believe the spectacular own goal that MS has performed here. It's truly staggering. It's like Sony sent a spy in to act like a MS exec and sabotaged everything.

Incredible.

Come back Agent Harrison, your work is complete...

uncle_sam_ie

Deleted User wrote: »

They should make it possible to do the 24 hour check in with an app or email of some kind.. Like you can connect a device by usb or over the home network and it sends an encrypted file. Save a lot of hassle if the broadband is down but 3g is still fine.

I live in VN and with the frequency of changes the government makes to the internet, I couldn't risk the purchase unless I could check in through a proxy/3g.

Or, couldn't you just insert the disc that you own to do the check? You wouldn't need to be online for that.

Rezident

Consumer trust, anyone?

At the end of the day, the Xbox One is bad for consumers. When there are, inevitably, connection problems and problems with their servers or problems with their staff etc. etc. the end consumer will not be allowed to play the games they paid for. The pirates and hackers will probably be fine because they have ways around but paying customers will be the ones that are inconvenienced. It's not good enough for me.

And as for being able to watch you in your home with the Mircosoft camera in it, knowing Microsoft, that's a little creepy. Altogether, there is enough to put me off buying the Xbox One now, there really is.

NTMK

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Very few retailers even bother storing PC games these days. Steam is a successful platform and did drive down the cost of games.

Have a look in the Gaming Bargains (Not Freebies) thread over in Games and you'll see consistent cheap deals from various sites selling codes for steam at knock-down prices. I haven't paid full price for a PC game in years. Even for new releases (picked up Bioshock Infinite for 27 euro on release).

Even when people accuse steam of ripping people off for new games at €49.99 it is still cheaper than the console eqivalent. Not to mention generally playable in proper full HD with richer textures.

Its usually cheaper than the console eqivalent due to the lack of a licencesing fees that consoles charge (i know steam take a cut too but MS/Sony take dev kit fees, testing fees and a cut)

Steam also has a lot of competition from legal and illegal sources. you have Amazon, GOG, GMG, gamefly, Direct2Drive, Origin, Uplay, Pirate Bay and B&M retailers.

in Ireland Xbone will have MS and Gamestop (who will prob jack the price now MS/Pubs are eating into their profits)

If even parts of what that guy claims is true - that they are trying to shift to a digital platform then it is good news for gamers. The reason digital copies are so expensive is because b+m shops threatened to stop selling the consoles if Xbox Live undercut them for the games. Nowadays people buy more of their electronics online and in non-traditional/electronics outlets (Tescos for example) and suddenly the B+M game shops don't have as much sway as they used to. If gamestop died tomorrow I wouldn't be stuck trying to get my hands on a PS4 or X1.

The best solution for gamers is a total switch to digital and the end of discs as that will drive costs down and hence prices.

If MS can work out a somewhat fair way for people to trade their digital copies or transfer the licence to a friend then I'm all ears.

I agree about digital distrobution being the future but we're at a stage where it cant exist in isolation.

What incentive do publishers have to lower launch day games prices. Physical media costs about 5c more than DD. they will charge what the market will bare. some pc devs charge more for their games because the know they can i.e Blizzard.

DD is great for publishers because they do lower costs but dont expect to see anyone other than their share holders

circadian

Just thinking about the 24 hour verification.

It's almost inevitable they'll suffer downtime at some point, loads of consoles can't sign in. The machines are essentially bricks until the service resumes (I wonder how it'll affect Netflix etc).

Also, within 6 months you can be dammed sure someone would have figured out a workaround for it. If you felt so inclined you could have one machine for online gaming and another to play illegally downloaded games. I give it a year max for this to happen. MS have just presented hackers with a challenge, one they'll gladly accept.

kearneybobs

maximoose wrote: »

Anonymous Xbox engineer explains DRM

Surely a person with such atrocious spelling would not be hired by Microsoft?

gizmo

NTMK wrote: »

DD is great for publishers because they do lower costs but dont expect to see anyone other than their share holders

As has been mentioned before, DD is great when they can sell directly to customers. Swapping one middle man, i.e. manufacturers/distributors/retailers for another, i.e. third party services like Steam et al, isn't the automatic pricing reducing advantage people seem to make it out to be.

NTMK

gizmo wrote: »

As has been mentioned before, DD is great when they can sell directly to customers. Swapping one middle man, i.e. manufacturers/distributors/retailers for another, i.e. third party services like Steam et al, isn't the automatic pricing reducing advantage people seem to make it out to be.

Switching to DD is reducing the middle men on consoles but the most expensive middle man is still there (MS) but as i said you're lowering the unit price by an insignificant amount

If publishers thought they could charge €100 per game they would. they're not doing what they do for the good of humanity

Fingleberries

NTMK wrote: »

Switching to DD is reducing the middle men on consoles but the most expensive middle man is still there (MS) but as i said you're lowering the unit price by an insignificant amount

If publishers thought they could charge €100 per game they would. they're not doing what they do for the good of humanity

Digital Distribution removes not only ye expense of the media (5c), but also the packaging, shipping and in-store advertising costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in two years time, the XBox One slim appears without a Blu Ray drive at all - streaming services will be more prevelant for movies and TV.

By that time people will have gotten used to all their online shenanigans and distribution for games.

Taking out the BD drive frees up a lot of space in the box and the console will become smaller, quieter and cheaper and people will wonder what all the brouhaha was about.

Tony EH

2 years? Don't be absurd.

It may come as a shock to some people here and elsewhere, but the VAST majority of people, even in developed countries, do not have 20mb+ download speeds. Most people remain on rather modest connections.

It would be the dumbest business decision in the world to remove the hard media from any console as connections for downloading GIGs worth of data is just not there yet and will not be for some time to come.

It would be the end of my console gaming days if I couldn't install by disk.

MarkY91

circadian wrote: »

Just thinking about the 24 hour verification.

It's almost inevitable they'll suffer downtime at some point, loads of consoles can't sign in. The machines are essentially bricks until the service resumes (I wonder how it'll affect Netflix etc).

Also, within 6 months you can be dammed sure someone would have figured out a workaround for it. If you felt so inclined you could have one machine for online gaming and another to play illegally downloaded games. I give it a year max for this to happen. MS have just presented hackers with a challenge, one they'll gladly accept.

i hope so. they deserve to be hacked for this stupid console. theyre begging for the xbox one to be hacked to be honest

ShiverinEskimo

NTMK wrote: »

in Ireland Xbone will have MS and Gamestop (who will prob jack the price now MS/Pubs are eating into their profits)

I don't think this is entirely the case. Look at all the sites offering Gold membership codes and MS points codes for far cheaper than the direct Xbox Live offerings.

There's no reason to think the likes of games and DLC won't be unlocked by codes similar to steam at discounted rates from 3rd parties.

Obviously we'll have to wait and see if MS allow such a system but if they did then it's good news for gamers IMO.

pleasant Co.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I don't think this is entirely the case. Look at all the sites offering Gold membership codes and MS points codes for far cheaper than the direct Xbox Live offerings.

There's no reason to think the likes of games and DLC won't be unlocked by codes similar to steam at discounted rates from 3rd parties.

Obviously we'll have to wait and see if MS allow such a system but if they did then it's good news for gamers IMO.

I'd be thinking the opposite, there's no reason to think there'll be discounted codes available...no point in comparing what's currently possible on the 360 as we already know for a fact that so much that can be done on that console cannot be done on the x1...you even acknowledge that we don't know if ms will allow such a system so saying "there's no reason to think the likes of games and DLC won't be unlocked by codes similar to steam at discounted rates from 3rd parties." is a fairly big leap to make.

Allyall

I have read a few comments (over the years) made by microsoft employees that really make them sound like they think that they are floating on a pedestal high above us. - That we 'wouldn't understand' the things they do, and are trying to achieve... I suppose 'Nobody understood' Vista.. :mad:

That said, i don't think i believe that quote above is from a Microsoft Xbox Engineer. If it is, he's an absolute moron.

But this comment... :eek:

“We have a product for people who aren’t able to get some form of connectivity,” explained Xbox chief Don Mattrick. “It’s called Xbox 360.”

is true.
As stated in this article it sounds very like Microsoft just don't care. They are fully confident that everyone will buy it anyway.
I must admit, that attitude really does make me feel quite petty, in the sense i half-hope they fail miserably.
One thing is for sure, statements like that aren't helping.

gizmo

NTMK wrote: »

Switching to DD is reducing the middle men on consoles but the most expensive middle man is still there (MS) but as i said you're lowering the unit price by an insignificant amount

I'd disagree with this, while it's true there is a non-trivial platform holder cut for sales and the initial licencing and cert costs, they wouldn't come close to the 30%+ given to digital retailers.

Tony EH wrote: »

It may come as a shock to some people here and elsewhere, but the VAST majority of people, even in developed countries, do not have 20mb+ download speeds. Most people remain on rather modest connections.

It would be the dumbest business decision in the world to remove the hard media from any console as connections for downloading GIGs worth of data is just not there yet and will not be for some time to come.

It would be the end of my console gaming days if I couldn't install by disk.

Again, while it's not entirely comparable to the PC, if one was to look at the prevalence of digital downloads via Steam et al, it would show that there's a very big market for digital game downloads. What has been stopping it's adoption on consoles, imo at least, is that the offerings on both 360 and PS3 were incredibly poor both in terms of choice of games and the pricing. One thing I'm interested in seeing this gen is if these prices come down and how having everything available digitally on launch day affects things. It's going to be incredibly easy for them to track so we'll see the effects within the first year or so of launch I'd imagine.

MrVestek

kearneybobs wrote: »

Surely a person with such atrocious spelling would not be hired by Microsoft?

Having worked with Microsoft employees in a past life you'd be surprised.

Tony EH

gizmo wrote: »

Again, while it's not entirely comparable to the PC, if one was to look at the prevalence of digital downloads via Steam et al, it would show that there's a very big market for digital game downloads. What has been stopping it's adoption on consoles, imo at least, is that the offerings on both 360 and PS3 were incredibly poor both in terms of choice of games and the pricing. One thing I'm interested in seeing this gen is if these prices come down and how having everything available digitally on launch day affects things. It's going to be incredibly easy for them to track so we'll see the effects within the first year or so of launch I'd imagine.

There's A market and usually, it's the knock down prices that attracts on Steam, but I'd say that the majority still buy hard copies.

Case in point, it took me 11 hours to download a 15gig patch for 'Shogun 2' recently, because of Steam's ****ed up patching policy. Steam is generally bloody awful. It certainly isn't something that should be getting trumped up as a good way forward.

I certainly wouldn't bother with many games if I had to go through that ****e every time...

...and I can guarantee you that many others wouldn't either.

ShiverinEskimo

pleasant Co. wrote: »

I'd be thinking the opposite, there's no reason to think there'll be discounted codes available...no point in comparing what's currently possible on the 360 as we already know for a fact that so much that can be done on that console cannot be done on the x1...you even acknowledge that we don't know if ms will allow such a system so saying "there's no reason to think the likes of games and DLC won't be unlocked by codes similar to steam at discounted rates from 3rd parties." is a fairly big leap to make.

Not if we take that fella's word for it that they are aiming for a steam-type model. Also Xbox Live isn't going to stop the day before X1 release and start anew the following day. There are discounted codes available for their service now and they could have stopped them any time they liked.

You're assuming the worst, I'm assuming the best. It's all assumptions so we'll just have to wait and see.

Fingleberries

Tony EH wrote: »

There's A market and usually, it's the knock down prices that attracts on Steam, but I'd say that the majority still buy hard copies.

Case in point, it took me 11 hours to download a 15gig patch for 'Shogun 2' recently, because of Steam's ****ed up patching policy. Steam is generally bloody awful. It certainly isn't something that should be getting trumped up as a good way forward.

I certainly wouldn't bother with many games if I had to go through that ****e every time...

...and I can guarantee you that many others wouldn't either.

Xbox One is supposed to have a "Patch in the Background" process, that ensures that your games are always up to date. No more 'You have been disconnected from Live / a Title Update is available' when you launch the game.

Tony EH

That still isn't anything to whoop about as far as I'm concerned.

I really despise this kind fascist patching crap. There are some games that I don't want patched, as not all patches contain positive changes.

I don't know if MS are going down that route with their Xbone (and TBH, I don't care cos they've lost me as a customer), but if they follow Steam's example, it's just another nail in the coffin.