Irish gun licenses and good starter guns

lb1997

going back to this thread as I just completed my firearm safety course
I want a gun for hunting (larger game ) and i have already discussed joining my local club for target shooting etc.
I should be participating in an advanced training course whenever its on next.
I should also be getting training license with a very kind friend of mine who uses a 12gauge ,that should last for few months.
i have some more questions that I didnt get a chance to ask at the course
My main concern is the rifle itself, whats your opinion on buying a centre fire rifle as my first gun if possible(.223)? I would like to hunt larger game( just bigger than vermin) with a rifle which isnt exactly possible with a .22 from what i have read. i May steer towards a shotgun after my time on the training license ut at the momnet i am set on a rifle.
p.s goats would be a likely target i were to go hunting

clivej

lb1997 wrote: »

going back to this thread as I just completed my firearm safety course
I want a gun for hunting (larger game ) and i have already discussed joining my local club for target shooting etc.
I should be participating in an advanced training course whenever its on next.
I should also be getting training license with a very kind friend of mine who uses a 12gauge ,that should last for few months.
i have some more questions that I didnt get a chance to ask at the course
My main concern is the rifle itself, whats your opinion on buying a centre fire rifle as my first gun if possible(.223)? I would like to hunt larger game( just bigger than vermin) with a rifle which isnt exactly possible with a .22 from what i have read. i May steer towards a shotgun after my time on the training license ut at the momnet i am set on a rifle.
p.s goats would be a likely target i were to go hunting

IMO Yes go for the center-fire as your first rifle BUT with a 22lr you will learn a lot about bullet drop and it's very cheap to run €5 for 50 bullets as against €30 for 25 CF bullets (good quality)

.223 will drop most fox sized animals and I'd say that would include a goat. Minimum for anything else, deer, IMO is a .243

lb1997

clivej wrote: »

IMO Yes go for the center-fire as your first rifle BUT with a 22lr you will learn a lot about bullet drop and it's very cheap to run €5 for 50 bullets as against €30 for 25 CF bullets (good quality)

.223 will drop most fox sized animals and I'd say that would include a goat. Minimum for anything else, deer, IMO is a .243

would a .223 be suitable for beginner ? not that im not acknowledging what you just told me, price is a very important factor to me an will proably lead to me getting a .22
also are they many differences in .22 CF and the .22 rimfire( performance wise, i understand RF will be cheaper)

Cass

lb1997 wrote: »

would a .223 be suitable for beginner ?

With practice, and common sense yes. Apart from the firearm you need to be aware of your environment, backstop (where the bullet will finish) shot placement, etc. Its not quite as easy as point and pull the trigger.

also are they many differences in .22 CF and the .22 rimfire( performance wise,) ..............

Yup.

What you ask can have a long and drawn out amount of answers. Try and break it down as this.

When it comes to starting of the first caliber recommended is always a .22lr rifle. The reason for this is the rifle, setup, gear, ammo, etc is cheap to buy, and easy to maintain/run.

The limitations with a .22lr are range, and effectiveness on larger game. However if you have no experience with a rifle then i would not suggest jumping into a centrefire rifle. The difference between a rimfire, and centrefire is based on the make up of the round used. See the picture below;



The round to the left being the rimfire meaning once the bottom/rim of the cartridge is struck by the firing pin the round is discharged. On a centrefire the primer (no 4 on right picture) must be struck which ignites the powder and fires the bullet.

Most rimfires have a range of between 0 - 125 yards, effective range. Centrefire rifles, depending on shooter ability have mush greater effective ranges (out to 1,000 yards), and hence need ALOT more experience to handle safely.

lb1997

Cass wrote: »

With practice, and common sense yes. Apart from the firearm you need to be aware of your environment, backstop (where the bullet will finish) shot placement, etc. Its not quite as easy as point and pull the trigger.

Yup.

What you ask can have a long and drawn out amount of answers. Try and break it down as this.

When it comes to starting of the first caliber recommended is always a .22lr rifle. The reason for this is the rifle, setup, gear, ammo, etc is cheap to buy, and easy to maintain/run.

The limitations with a .22lr are range, and effectiveness on larger game. However if you have no experience with a rifle then i would not suggest jumping into a centrefire rifle. The difference between a rimfire, and centrefire is based on the make up of the round used. See the picture below;



The round to the left being the rimfire meaning once the bottom/rim of the cartridge is struck by the firing pin the round is discharged. On a centrefire the primer (no 4 on right picture) must be struck which ignites the powder and fires the bullet.

Most rimfires have a range of between 0 - 125 yards, effective range. Centrefire rifles, depending on shooter ability have mush greater effective ranges (out to 1,000 yards), and hence need ALOT more experience to handle safely.

haha thats the same diagram they used at the course and (almost) the exact same words! so does mean the effectiveness of .22 CF on larger game isnt any better than .22 RF its just its has a greater range? or am i completely wrong.

dodderangler

What's the rush lad?
Get your self a nice .22 and work from there like most lads on this a .22 was the first gun and they worked up from there
You'll learn a lot from a .22 and you'll still be able to shot vermin with it maybe not goats but there's no hurry

Cass

I've been using that for years. Great minds eh?


A .22 CF will have a greater range, but also carry much more energy. Meaning you get greater knock down power. The larger bullet, traveling faster means you can kill quickly, and efficiently at longer ranges that a .22 rimfire simply won't reach or be effective at.

lb1997

dodderangler wrote: »

What's the rush lad?
Get your self a nice .22 and work from there like most lads on this a .22 was the first gun and they worked up from there
You'll learn a lot from a .22 and you'll still be able to shot vermin with it maybe not goats but there's no hurry

Cass wrote: »

I've been using that for years. Great minds eh?


A .22 CF will have a greater range, but also carry much more energy. Meaning you get greater knock down power. The larger bullet, traveling faster means you can kill quickly, and efficiently at longer ranges that a .22 rimfire simply won't reach or be effective at.

thanks guys, I'll stick with the .22 then.

lapua20grain

the .17 hmr is a good little round as well fast and nice flat trajectory very accurate. have shot fox at 70 80 yards dropped them with the first shot good round to use and nice for target

misses with rifles

starting off with a .22 is a great way to learn about hunting because of its shorter range you have to get in a lot closer to gaurantee a clean kill
which is half the sport of it
as said before you wil fire a lot of rounds learning to shoot so cheap .22 is a lot easier on the wallet
best of luck with it

lb1997

misses with rifles wrote: »

starting off with a .22 is a great way to learn about hunting because of its shorter range you have to get in a lot closer to gaurantee a clean kill
which is half the sport of it
as said before you wil fire a lot of rounds learning to shoot so cheap .22 is a lot easier on the wallet
best of luck with it

alright thanks, just wondering did you learn wiht a .22? if so did you practice WHILE hunting or at a range of some sort shooting targets?

dodderangler

Well you'd have to sight it in with target lad and after that try the hunting
Another good reason for gettin a .22 is you'll learn about range as said before and learn all about stalking your quarry and using cover to best advantage
Loads of time to go for a bigger calibre
Enjoy the learning end of it as they're your best memories
No matter how long your shooting everyone remember first rabbit fox etc and most is with a .22 or shotty
Atb lad and keep update on your progress

lb1997

dodderangler wrote: »

Well you'd have to sight it in with target lad and after that try the hunting
Another good reason for gettin a .22 is you'll learn about range as said before and learn all about stalking your quarry and using cover to best advantage
Loads of time to go for a bigger calibre
Enjoy the learning end of it as they're your best memories
No matter how long your shooting everyone remember first rabbit fox etc and most is with a .22 or shotty
Atb lad and keep update on your progress

alright, thanks will do!

misses with rifles

aye learned with a 22 and still great fun to shoot the cz 452 is hard to beat as a first gun

dodderangler

lb1997 wrote: »

alright, thanks will do!

Good man
Is there someone near to u on this that can maybe help with showing stalking techniques?
I know some might think hunting rabbits needs no technique but it does if you've no cover to hide and stalking rabbits will teach you about stalking other quarry

lb1997

misses with rifles wrote: »

aye learned with a 22 and still great fun to shoot the cz 452 is hard to beat as a first gun

yeah i think im steering towards a 2nd hand cz 452 or 455 .

misses with rifles

are you a member of a range

lb1997

misses with rifles wrote: »

are you a member of a range

i will be.

misses with rifles

thats a good thing you can spend a good bit of time getting your eye in
one important thing with hunting is gettin a clean kill its only fair on the animal
as well as that most lads and ladies at ranges will be able to give you good advice
one tip for ya buy decent ammo my cz is far better wit cci but every rifle is different its great fun figuring it out

lb1997

dodderangler wrote: »

Good man
Is there someone near to u on this that can maybe help with showing stalking techniques?
I know some might think hunting rabbits needs no technique but it does if you've no cover to hide and stalking rabbits will teach you about stalking other quarry

oh and i was wondering whats the process of selling my gun and buying a more poweruful in a few years time? is there anymore consulting with the gardai?
any fees?

lb1997

misses with rifles wrote: »

thats a good thing you can spend a good bit of time getting your eye in
one important thing with hunting is gettin a clean kill its only fair on the animal
as well as that most lads and ladies at ranges will be able to give you good advice
one tip for ya buy decent ammo my cz is far better wit cci but every rifle is different its great fun figuring it out

oh yeah of course. i see a lot of hollow points in .22 , how would these benefit over conventional rounds?

misses with rifles

lb1997 wrote: »

oh yeah of course. i see a lot of hollow points in .22 , how would these benefit over conventional rounds?

hollow ppoints are a little better for hunting as regards stopping power as they should break up after impact

lb1997

misses with rifles wrote: »

hollow ppoints are a little better for hunting as regards stopping power as they should break up after impact

but more expensive, yes?

misses with rifles

lb1997 wrote: »

but more expensive, yes?

hard one to answer really every firearm dealer seems to have different prices
as regards ammo find the one that does the tightest 5 shot group and be happy
nothing more annoying than missing cos of cheap/crap ammo
prices on 22 ammo are very reasonable anyway your only talking a few euro in the differance

Cass

lb1997 wrote: »

oh and i was wondering whats the process of selling my gun and buying a more poweruful in a few years time?

You trade your rifle into the dealer, get a dealer's letter stating the make, model, serial number of the new rifle, submit it on an FCA1, and wait. Pretty much the same process as buying your first rifle or any rifle for that matter.

is there anymore consulting with the gardai?

Other than the FCA1 none.

any fees?

€80 for the new license. That and the cost of the new gun.

lb1997

misses with rifles wrote: »

hard one to answer really every firearm dealer seems to have different prices
as regards ammo find the one that does the tightest 5 shot group and be happy
nothing more annoying than missing cos of cheap/crap ammo
prices on 22 ammo are very reasonable anyway your only talking a few euro in the differance

got it.
i really amn't stressing enough how much everyone has helped me. thanks again everyone.

dodderangler

Cass wrote: »

You trade your rifle into the dealer, get a dealer's letter stating the make, model, serial number of the new rifle, submit it on an FCA1, and wait. Pretty much the same process as buying your first rifle or any rifle for that matter.

Other than the FCA1 none.

€80 for the new license. That and the cost of the new gun.

Cass I was wondering what the process is for buying a gun off a lad like in the for sale section of shooting
How does one go through with that?
I know with my dads baikel I just got him to sign it with contact details and licence reg number

Cass

When buying from a private source you do the following;

• Your mate surrenders/stores the gun in a dealer (not mandatory, but the best option)
• He cancels his license using an FCA2 or transfers his license to another firearm.
• You apply for a license on his rifle using the FCA1.
• You fill in all the sections as normal with one exception. Section 3,3. Here you enter your mate's license details, name, address, etc.
• Supply a c=photocopy of your mate's license (front and back), and on a separate sheet of paper explain you are buying from a friend, not a dealer.
• Submit the FCA1, with a dealers letter to say the gun is stored with him.
• Job done.

lb1997

I've got another question, I made this nifty night vision mount for my NV monocular onto my airsoft gun, currently there is no aiming reticle so it can only be used to observe and not shoot.
An easy way to make it possible to aim with this is to mount an adjustable IR laser to the gun and zero it in and i need not explain the rest.
i believe night scopes are illegal in ireland but what about this contraption? would it be ok to mount on a real gun(firearm) ?
but first of all what are the laws on IR lasers? for example if i bought a 5mW IR laser diode and replaced the standdard diode in a lsaer with it and mounted it to my gun.

aaakev

Night cision cant be attached to a gun without permission from the super, there is a section on the application form for this but you would need a very good reason for it! Basicly the only people who have this are rangers i think