England National Team Talk/News/Rumours

Lovely Bloke

♪♪ Great Escape Theme ♪♪

So, I think it's a good idea to have an England thread, given the interest in their players when they play for their clubs, and the coverage we get here in Ireland with Sky, BBC and ITV all available, and the English papers too.

Starting with last night's win against Brazil - pretty impressive in my opinion, given that Brazil are on their ramp up to the World Cup, and they won't have any competitive games until then, they are treating their friendlies as pretty important.

Impressive that Frank Lampard got on the scoresheet, I wonder where he will go in the Summer, that move could be important for his England future, and his chances of making the World Cup squad. He's probably better of taking a short term deal to stay in England, or at least Europe for the 2013/14 Season, then moving for a payday to America/Middle East/Paris.

His Liverpool tenure notwithstanding, I think Hodgson can get this England side to perform to a level where they can be considered as genuine World Cup contenders, he has the knowledge of the international, and the "practical" style of play that he uses is becoming more and more useful in the international game - although the age-old comnplaint of England being unable to retain the ball is going to come into play.

I'd like this thread to track England's progress up to the WC and beyond.

Xavi6

Bring back Umbro!

GavRedKing

Engerlund, Engerlund, ENGERLUND!!!!!!!


Edit:
How many posts before someone complains about an English National team thread and what are the chances that user supports a English team? :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

I like to see Roy do good job with England.

Lovely Bloke

GavRedKing wrote: »

Engerlund, Engerlund, ENGERLUND!!!!!!!


Edit:
How many posts before someone complains about an English National team thread and what are the chances that user supports a English team? :pac:

Or A. N. Other British Team.

♪♪ Rule Britannia do-do do-do do-dooooo ♪♪

Rega

Disappointed I didn't hear the Great Escape Theme when I tried to click ♪♪ Great Escape Theme ♪♪.

HYPERLINK LIAR!!

klose

Good idea! Roy certainly has good options now with most players in some sort of form bar welbeck at the moment you could argue for most peoples inclusion/exclusion in an english team. Hard to knkw what their best team is really.
Hart is certainly their number 1. Untill, if ever richards gets off the treatment table johnson will undoubtedly be rb. Centre half is a tricky one with cahill,jagielka,smalling,jones and lescott all fighting for 2 spots. Lb is another interesting one, i reckon its 50/50 between baines and cole at this stage.
Midfield is fairly set in stone, gerrard is captain, carrick and wilshere are in excellent form so thats 3/4 almost guarenteed starters. The likes of milner/barry/parker/walcott etc all have good shouts to be included also.
Rooney is a cert for a front position, wellbeck is on a drought at the moment, sturridge is in good form at the moment, caroll is back playing so theres another option he could go for. Walcott could also be played up front. Could make a good team there but the world cup is still over a year away and form could easily change between now and then aswell as injuries.

GavRedKing

Needs more 3 lions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9SmXz5E1R4

Oranage2

I like Roy, would love to see get a chance at a big British club.

Beefy78

I thought about starting this thread before. Didn't want to be shouted down though

I'm quite liking the looks of England these days. I'm a huge Walcott fan and really think that he and Wilshere have the ability to make England a completely different proposition to the team that has plodded through the last few tournaments. The front three last night had pace, trickery and were completely interchangable which must make them difficult to mark. I'd like to see Young in for Welbeck but hopefully that will come.

I thought Hodgson was the right man at a difficult time when he was appointed. He had to keep things tight in the last Summer but hopefully now he can play a little more expansive football. Last night, and the first 75 minutes vs Sweden, were encouraging.

Vic Vinegar

Wilshere was class against Brazil. definitely gonna be a huge player for England. A midfield of him and Cleverley + a more defensive minded MF would be super.

Luckycharms_74

This is the best England song
(John Barnes rapping )

Pro. F

I didn't see the game the other night so I can't comment on that specifically.

For me England are always a fascinating team to watch and talk about. It's one of the most backwards footballing cultures in the world in terms of tactics, and the way they waste opportunity after opportunity is very funny.

I think they have excellent players available all over the pitch at the moment. But they won't pick them because they prefer to watch players running around and trying hard rather than teams who can pass the ball well.

Hart
Johnson Smalling Jagielka Cole
Britton
Lennon Cleverley Wilshire Young
Rooney

I think a team something like this would be able to dominate possession, or at least have an even footing in possession, against any international team except for Spain.

There are loads of quality options for centre back and winger so they could be all changed depending on form or whatever your preference is.

But Hodgson will stick with the standard English grafters like Gerrard, Lampard, Barry and Parker. Then, against any decent opposition, they will end up playing without the ball and praying to either get to penalties or get lucky before that stage.

Zatman

the team above could be potentially a very good team though id take out Young and put Baines on left flank as he has brilliant set piece delivery and is no slouch going forward

I do like the addition of Britton he is a very good distributer of the ball and perfect for international game

PhlegmyMoses

England had an 84% pass completion rate against Brazil last night and played well up front and in midfield. The problem was in defence. I also don't know whether I'd be including Britton in a best line-up scenario before he actually plays a few games. Hard to know how he'll react to the pressures of playing for England or how he'll adapt. His move to Sheffield United was a write-off because he couldn't impose his playing style and he actually asked to move back to Swansea.

pavb2

For me the enigma is that the England team over many years have always had quality players on paper but could never quite fulfil their potential as a team.

Almost the sum of all the parts adding up to less than the whole

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

England had an 84% pass completion rate against Brazil last night and played well up front and in midfield. The problem was in defence. I also don't know whether I'd be including Britton in a best line-up scenario before he actually plays a few games. Hard to know how he'll react to the pressures of playing for England or how he'll adapt. His move to Sheffield United was a write-off because he couldn't impose his playing style and he actually asked to move back to Swansea.

You would expect a player like Britton to struggle at the majority of English clubs because the majority of English clubs play kick and rush football which would never suit him. So a failed stint in a Championship team doesn't tell you very much that you wouldn't already know about that kind of player. In the team above he would have quality midfielders alongside him who would be able to string more than three passes together and that would suit him much better.

Obviously he would have to play a few games before you could say for certain, but I'm making my suggestion for what I think would be their best team.

As for the performance last night, I didn't see it so I can't comment.

If both Wilshere and Cleverley play centrally then I could see them carrying whichever of the grafters is played alongside them, but that grafter will always be a weakness when the opposition press them. If England just decided to join the world of modern football tactics and ensure that all of their midfielders were comfortable with the ball in tight spaces then they would eliminate that weakness. Then they could be serious contenders for any tournament I think.

PhlegmyMoses

Pro. F wrote: »

You would expect a player like Britton to struggle at the majority of English clubs because the majority of English clubs play kick and rush football which would never suit him. So a failed stint in a Championship team doesn't tell you very much that you wouldn't already know about that kind of player. In the team above he would have quality midfielders alongside him who would be able to string more than three passes together and that would suit him much better.

Obviously he would have to play a few games before you could say for certain, but I'm making my suggestion for what I think would be their best team.

Yeah, he's definitely worth a look at, I'm just not so sure that he is the answer in there. The Sheffiled United thing is just a side-point that shows how he struggled to impose his own game in a team set up differently to Swansea. Not a damning criticism but enough to make you wonder whether a 30 year old could really settle in and affect things quickly. Never underestimate how hard some players find playing for England.

The formation you've put forward would work similar to Barca's, with Cleverley as Iniesta, Wilshere as Xavi and Britton as Busquets (bear with me here, I'm not suggesting any of those players are as good as their Spanish counterparts). I'm not sure Britton has enough in his locker other than being an excellent passer to really step it up to that level. England have often had a player like him in their teams, Ray Wilkins being the most notable, so it's not like they can't facilitate it. It's just whether Britton would be the man to do it.

As I said, he should get a cap at some point and it looks like it would be alongside Cleverley and Wilshere, as they seem to be the two guaranteed starters for England in midfield at the moment.

Blatter

Pro. F wrote: »

Hart
Johnson Smalling Jagielka Cole
Britton
Lennon Cleverley Wilshire Young
Rooney

I'd like to see how that team would do, I'd have Walcott in for Lennon though. Walcott has 18 goals and 11 assists for Arsenal this season already, which is incredibly productive. I know he has played as the central striker on more than one occasion which helps boost his stats, but I think he's still played most games out wide.

bohsman

GavRedKing wrote: »

Engerlund, Engerlund, ENGERLUND!!!!!!!


Edit:
How many posts before someone complains about an English National team thread and what are the chances that user supports a English team? :pac:

There would be war in this thread right now if GavShels had posted that!

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Yeah, he's definitely worth a look at, I'm just not so sure that he is the answer in there. The Sheffiled United thing is just a side-point that shows how he struggled to impose his own game in a team set up differently to Swansea. Not a damning criticism but enough to make you wonder whether a 30 year old could really settle in and affect things quickly. Never underestimate how hard some players find playing for England.

The formation you've put forward would work similar to Barca's, with Cleverley as Iniesta, Wilshere as Xavi and Britton as Busquets (bear with me here, I'm not suggesting any of those players are as good as their Spanish counterparts). I'm not sure Britton has enough in his locker other than being an excellent passer to really step it up to that level. England have often had a player like him in their teams, Ray Wilkins being the most notable, so it's not like they can't facilitate it. It's just whether Britton would be the man to do it.

As I said, he should get a cap at some point and it looks like it would be alongside Cleverley and Wilshere, as they seem to be the two guaranteed starters for England in midfield at the moment.

I think you are very much underestimating Britton and overestimating Wilkins.

Britton is an awful lot more than just an excellent passer. He is also excellent defensively and he has excellent close control. Wilkins' close control, from what I've seen of him, was poor in comparison. And he wasn't defensive player anyway.

I'd say that England have rarely had players like Britton, Cleverley and Wilshere. They've always been short of central midfielders with the required close control.

PhlegmyMoses

Pro. F wrote: »

I think you are very much underestimating Britton and overestimating Wilkins.

And I think you're doing the opposite.

Britton is an awful lot more than just an excellent passer. He is also excellent defensively and he has excellent close control. Wilkins' close control, from what I've seen of him, was poor in comparison. And he wasn't defensive player anyway.

I'd say that England have rarely had players like Britton, Cleverley and Wilshere. They've always been short of central midfielders with the required close control.

Ray Wilkins was a quintessential holding midfielder who was so good at what he did that he was bought by Manchester United and AC Milan and played near enough 100 games for England, from what I remember. He would never have been defined as anything other than a defensive midfielder. His nickname was "The Crab" because he pretty much held his position in front of the defence.

I suppose we'll see about Britton but at 30, and having never really played any meaningful football at the highest level, his time is running out.

Pro. F

Blatter wrote: »

I'd like to see how that team would do, I'd have Walcott in for Lennon though. Walcott has 18 goals and 11 assists for Arsenal this season already, which is incredibly productive. I know he has played as the central striker on more than one occasion which helps boost his stats, but I think he's still played most games out wide.

Yeah Walcott is becoming the real deal this season. I probably shouldn't be overlooking him, but I still can't help but not trust him a bit. That will probably have changed by the end of this season.

Whoever you fancy England have a crazy number of good options out wide.

PhlegmyMoses

I would go for Walcott also. Never sure about Lennon, particularly for England. He came on for 15 minutes last night and I'm not sure if he even touched the ball.

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

And I think you're doing the opposite.

Ray Wilkins was a quintessential holding midfielder who was so good at what he did that he was bought by Manchester United and AC Milan and played near enough 100 games for England, from what I remember. He would never have been defined as anything other than a defensive midfielder. His nickname was "The Crab".

I suppose we'll see about Britton but at 30, and having never really played any meaningful football at the highest level, his time is running out.

The reason he was called the crab was because he passed it sideways so much, not because he was good at defending. I don't care who bought him, I've watched him play and his close control was poor, which means he wasn't very good at the job of a central midfielder. A typical English central midfielder you could say.

PhlegmyMoses

Pro. F wrote: »

The reason he was called the crab was because he passed it sideways so much, not because he was good at defending. I don't care who bought him, I've watched him play and his close control was poor, which means he wasn't very good at the job of a central midfielder. A typical English central midfielder you could say.

I guarantee that you have barely seen a full game of his if you believe he wasn't a defensive midfielder. You are just wrong. You can have an opinion about how good he was but you don't seem to know what his overall playing style was like.

Anyway, this is kind of OT so I'll leave it there.

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I guarantee that you have barely seen a full game of his if you believe he wasn't a defensive midfielder. You are just wrong. You can have an opinion about how good he was but you don't seem to know what his overall playing style was like.

Anyway, this kind of OT so I'll leave it there.

I've seen two full England games of his. Not a lot but they're hard to find, and plenty enough to see what his style was.

You're just confusing negative play in possession with being a defensive midfielder. His defending was nothing special and he let himself get further up the pitch in his CM position. Nothing at all like Britton who stays deep and guards the defence and is excellent at reading the game and also has excellent close control.

Lovely Bloke

BUMP!!

So, it looks like Ferdinand/Ferguson have reached some kind of compromise with Hodgson/The FA where Ferdinand won't play against San Marino, but will play against Montenegro.

He shouldn't be needed against San Marino anyway, they won't pose any significant threat coming forward, and although Rio is decent bringing the ball out of defence and starting attacks, this aspect of his game won't be missed against the San Marino side.

What could be England's undoing though, is the ability to create.

AdamD

Carl Jenkinson should be in that squad.

Lovely Bloke

AdamD wrote: »

Carl Jenkinson should be in that squad.

You're right, I don't know why international managers don't use games against the likes of San Marino as "develpoment" games - pick an XI of fringe and/or young players - they'll still win, and maybe even perform better than established players for whom international football isn't a novelty.

Foster should definitely play, Gerrard shouldn't, for example. Get lads in who are out to impress and maybe become established themselves.

Beefy78

They're not charging 'development' prices to get in and these aren't 'development' caps which will be given out. This is a full international fixture and should be treated with that respect.

The second fixture of the double-header is absolutely vital and I'm sure that England will rest a few players for that one but this still isn't a friendly and I want to see a strong team playing.

Lovely Bloke

talk that Hodgson might play Carrick at CB to try to unlock San Marino from deep.

It's not a bad plan actually, San Marino will be no thread coming forward, so trying to utilise Carrick's passing range like that makes sense.

Lovely Bloke

Trouble in Montenegro means that the match may not be on TV next week.

Vic Vinegar

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Trouble in Montenegro means that the match may not be on TV next week.

What's happening there? can't find anything about it online.

Lovely Bloke

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

What's happening there? can't find anything about it online.

England match in Montenegro faces television blackout threat

Vic Vinegar

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

England match in Montenegro faces television blackout threat

Jesus, bit of a mess there!

Oranage2

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

talk that Hodgson might play Carrick at CB to try to unlock San Marino from deep.

It's not a bad plan actually, San Marino will be no thread coming forward, so trying to utilise Carrick's passing range like that makes sense.

Its a terrible idea!

GavRedKing

Oranage2 wrote: »

Its a terrible idea!

San Marino will more then likely line up 4-5-1 if Carrick is one of the CB's it will allow the other CB to mark the recognised CF and for Carrick to do his duty and distribute from the back and step into CM with the ball.

In reality England shouldnt need him to do that role anyway but I can see reason in what Hodgson is thinking.

Oranage2

Makes sense maybe in a computer game.

Has hodgson said this?

Roy is a world class manager so id say he was joking.

There is just too much wrong with it.

You don't build a team around carrick firstly and you're not going to build a team around a centreback.

Playing carrick there will also severely weaken the defense.

There is a reason united don't play carrick as a centreback against the likes of oldham in the cup unless they have too or why the likes of Brazil don't play a mid fielder in defense against the crap teams.

G.K.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Makes sense maybe in a computer game.

Has hodgson said this?

Roy is a world class manager so id say he was joking.

There is just too much wrong with it.

You don't build a team around carrick firstly and you're not going to build a team around a centreback.

Playing carrick there will also severely weaken the defense.

There is a reason united don't play carrick as a centreback against the likes of oldham in the cup unless they have too or why the likes of Brazil don't play a mid fielder in defense against the crap teams.

Laudrup did that very thing with Ki in the Carling Cup final.

Amirani

Oranage2 wrote: »

There is a reason united don't play carrick as a centreback against the likes of oldham in the cup unless they have too or why the likes of Brazil don't play a mid fielder in defense against the crap teams.

The reason is that Rio and Silva are so comfortable on ball that they can bring the ball forward and distribute it well from the back. England don't have any other centre backs with a similar sort of ability.

Blatter

Oranage2 wrote: »

Makes sense maybe in a computer game.

Has hodgson said this?

Roy is a world class manager so id say he was joking.

There is just too much wrong with it.

You don't build a team around carrick firstly and you're not going to build a team around a centreback.

Playing carrick there will also severely weaken the defense.

There is a reason united don't play carrick as a centreback against the likes of oldham in the cup unless they have too or why the likes of Brazil don't play a mid fielder in defense against the crap teams.

Nobody suggested building the team around Carrick.

And Oldham are miles better than San Marino. Maybe some Blue Square Premier side v United would be a better comparison. Even then I'm not so sure, San Marino are that bad.

Not that you didn't know all of this already

Oranage2

G.K. wrote: »

Laudrup did that very thing with Ki in the Carling Cup final.

Because the other centreback was injured.

Blatter wrote: »

Nobody suggested building the team around Carrick.

And Oldham are miles better than San Marino. Maybe some Blue Square Premier side v United would be a better comparison. Even then I'm not so sure, San Marino are that bad.

Not that you didn't know all of this already

Of course I knew all this.


Do people actually think playing carrick as centreback is a better idea then playing an actual centreback or am I being punk'd?

dfx-

GavRedKing wrote: »

San Marino will more then likely line up 4-5-1 if Carrick is one of the CB's it will allow the other CB to mark the recognised CF and for Carrick to do his duty and distribute from the back and step into CM with the ball.

In reality England shouldnt need him to do that role anyway but I can see reason in what Hodgson is thinking.

You could probably afford Paul McShane at centre half, Ireland got away with it...just.:(

I'd say they'll play more of a 6-3-1.

G.K.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Because the other centreback was injured

He had three other CB's available, including the club captain. It was a purely tactical choice.

Oranage2 wrote: »

Do people actually think playing carrick as centreback is a better idea then playing an actual centreback or am I being punk'd?

I don't see how you don't see why it's an option.

GavRedKing

Oranage2 wrote: »

why the likes of Brazil don't play a mid fielder in defense against the crap teams.

They should, Chelsea have been playing their Brazilian CM at CB for far too long. :pac:

Oranage2

G.K. wrote: »

He had three other CB's available, including the club captain. It was a purely tactical choice.



I don't see how you don't see why it's an option.

Point taking on swansea.


as for carrick, England have to play 2 games, Roy already has to deal with an inexperienced centreback pairing, then he'll have to change it again against Poland, Reality is he could play anyone anywhere and England will beat san Marino, of course playing carrick there is also an option, I just don't think a very good one.

Red Crow

Oranage2 wrote: »

Makes sense maybe in a computer game.

Has hodgson said this?

Roy is a world class manager so id say he was joking.

Since when is Woy World Class?

There is just too much wrong with it.

You don't build a team around carrick firstly and you're not going to build a team around a centreback.

Who suggested that you're building the team around him? That's an absurd assumption to make.

Playing carrick there will also severely weaken the defense.

There is a reason united don't play carrick as a centreback against the likes of oldham in the cup unless they have too or why the likes of Brazil don't play a mid fielder in defense against the crap teams.

I don't see the defence being a big issue against San Marino considering they haven't scored yet in this qualifying campaign. They also haven't scored a competitive goal since Slovakia in 2008. I don't think the defence is going to be much of an issue and you're completely overreacting.

Vic Vinegar

Oranage2 wrote: »

then he'll have to change it again against Poland,

They're not playing Poland.....

Lovely Bloke

Vs San Marino

XI

Hart;
Walker, Smalling, Lescott, Baines;
Oxlade-Chamberlain, Cleverley, Lampard, Young;
Rooney, Defoe.

Subs:

Parker, Foster, Cole, Taylor, Caulker, Milner, Gerrard, Carrick, Osman, Welbeck, Sturridge, Forster.

Nice attack minded side should be comfortable enough

Professional Griefer

1-0, poor enough from the defender.