England National Team Talk/News/Rumours

Vic Vinegar

Nice goal from Young!

Nuri Sahin

Lovely Bloke

Crunch game tonight, a win and England will go top, anything else and Motenegro stay top, and if Montenegro win they'll be 5 clear.



It's by no means a foregone conclusion.

should see a few changes from Friday's training session.

Lovely Bloke

England: Hart, Johnson, Smalling, Lescott, Cole, Gerrard, Carrick, Milner, Cleverley, Welbeck, Rooney.

Subs: Foster, Walker, Baines, Caulker, Lampard, Parker, Osman,
Oxlade-Chamberlain, Young, Defoe, Sturridge, Forster

Lovely Bloke

Rooney after 6 mins 0-1

Dozen Wicked Words

No pace in the team at all, but playing well so far.

Mr Blobby

Ox on for Milner. Will weaken the defence but will add some much needed Pace.

Dozen Wicked Words

England dire this half.

BhoscaCapall

Why do people think supporting a club team based in England is anything similar to supporting the English national team? Piss poor logic.

Dozen Wicked Words

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Why do people think supporting a club team based in England is anything similar to supporting the English national team? Piss poor logic.

How do you mean?

Lovely Bloke

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Why do people think supporting a club team based in England is anything similar to supporting the English national team? Piss poor logic.

What are you waffling about?

BhoscaCapall

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

How do you mean?

Which do you feel represents England as a nation more, a team full of Europeans and South Americans with a European manager who play in blue or red, or the English national team who play under the flag of St George and sing GSTQ and Rule Britannia?

Dozen Wicked Words

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Which do you feel represents England as a nation more, a team full of Europeans and South Americans with a European manager who play in blue or red, or the English national team who play under the flag of St George and sing GSTQ and Rule Britannia?

Well the national team represent the nation more than a league team, presumably that's the case in every country? Sorry, but I am still missing the point (could well be my fault I am missing the point you are trying to make though)

BhoscaCapall

I don't think I can explain it any clearer, apologies.

Pro. F

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I don't think I can explain it any clearer, apologies.

You have asked two questions, so you obviously haven't explained anything.

BhoscaCapall

Pro. F wrote: »

You have asked two questions, so you obviously haven't explained anything.

I posed a question to illustrate my point and thus explain it. I can see how it might be confusing but give it some thought and I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Pro. F

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I posed a question to illustrate my point and thus explain it. I can see how it might be confusing but give it some thought and I'm sure you'll figure it out.

I was pointing out the fact that in spite of what you say you haven't actually tried to explain it at all. Your "I don't think I can explain it any clearer, apologies" was completely disingenuous.

BhoscaCapall

Pro. F wrote: »

I was pointing out the fact that in spite of what you say you haven't actually tried to explain it at all. Your "I don't think I can explain it any clearer, apologies" was completely disingenuous.

I felt if I had to explain it in any more basic terms it would sound patronising, but if you insist.

Presumably the reason someone may have a problem with people discussing the English football team is because they dislike the country, be it due to rivalry, politics, history or whatever else.

To suggest this is hypocritical because they support a Premiership team is stupid. The Premiership is hardly a representation of England, it is ran by foreigners and 99% of the quality on offer is due to foreign players.

The England national team on the other hand, is a representation of England. I trust that doesn't need explained!

Lovely Bloke

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Presumably the reason someone may have a problem with people discussing the English football team

But why are you bringing this up - nobody has said, in this thread, that they have a problem with it.

wtf are you doing?

jaykay74

If this was Serbia/Croatia/Montenegro fans it would be wall to wall coverage across all English media. Wonder what Anton has done to anger them ? I could understand f*k off Rio chants or whatever but this just smacks of racism.

Build a bonfire, build a bonfire

Put Rio on the top

Put Anton in the middle

Then burn the f****** lot

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/england-sickening-chants-against-rio-1786627

GavRedKing

It's banter in'it bruv?


TBF not many media sources are going to acknowledge the chanting of their own fans against their own players, I dont think it's racism , more to do with the fans take on Rio's decision making, not sure why Anton was given a mention though.

Dozen Wicked Words

GavRedKing wrote: »

It's banter in'it bruv?


TBF not many media sources are going to acknowledge the chanting of their own fans against their own players, I dont think it's racism , more to do with the fans take on Rio's decision making, not sure why Anton was given a mention though.

The same reason kids have a go at other kids parents, yo mama so fat etc. They slag the person and the family members and anything else they think will hurt someone. Maybe not very nice, but certainly not racism, cheap journalism by Holt. Most chants by fans are fairly childish unless Holt can't hear behind the glass in the press box.

Dozen Wicked Words

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I felt if I had to explain it in any more basic terms it would sound patronising, but if you insist.

Presumably the reason someone may have a problem with people discussing the English football team is because they dislike the country, be it due to rivalry, politics, history or whatever else.

To suggest this is hypocritical because they support a Premiership team is stupid. The Premiership is hardly a representation of England, it is ran by foreigners and 99% of the quality on offer is due to foreign players.

The England national team on the other hand, is a representation of England. I trust that doesn't need explained!

Who was the original comment aimed at though, you appear to be having a discussion with yourself?

greendom

Do they still sing "No Surrender" at matches ?

It may have changed, but when I last attended England matches (over 10 years ago) but there was an underlying current of racism present at Wembley.

Ryu Hayabusa

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

The Premiership is hardly a representation of England, it is ran by foreigners and 99% of the quality on offer is due to foreign players.

This can be said for every league in Europe, but to say 99% of the quality is foreign is mad

The best players in each of the European leagues are foreign

GavRedKing

BhoscaCapall your points seem to be aimed at nobody in particular and are off-topic to a degree, its a one off warning to keep it on topic, it goes for everyone that posts in this thread though.

This thread isnt a place to have a shot at the English teams, players, fans and it wont be tolerated.

By all means discus the English national team but do so within the rules of the charter please.

BhoscaCapall

GavRedKing wrote: »

BhoscaCapall your points seem to be aimed at nobody in particular and are off-topic to a degree

Funny you should say that, given it was literally you that said it
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83095327&postcount=3

Maybe people didn't notice it because you didn't feel the need to type it all in a big bold font like your post there.

I made one comment which had to be dragged out over about 10 posts because people needed it explained in a more laborious fashion.

That said, I appreciate I am walking a thin line by disagreeing with a moderator so we'll leave it at that.

Lovely Bloke

You're trying to cause an argument whrre none exists.

Typical really.

BhoscaCapall

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21970903

No mention of their "No Surrender" chants luckily.

Dozen Wicked Words

Undercurrent of race and Imbued with racist overtones, ffs, complete bollocks. Oliver Holt will be jissing himself.

Lovely Bloke

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/04/greg-dyke-england-world-cup-qatar-2022

Greg Dyke aims for an England World Cup win at Qatar 2022


Greg Dyke, the FA chairman, setting out some of his aims in his new role, including targets for the England team. Photograph: The FA via Getty Images
Greg Dyke has warned England will "fail to compete seriously on the world stage" altogether if an "alarming" lack of homegrown talent is not urgently addressed, and the new Football Association chairman has set the target of winning the 2022 World Cup to focus minds.

"The problem is serious, very serious," he warned of the "frightening trend" of fewer and fewer homegrown players playing in the top flight. "English football is a tanker that needs turning," said Dyke in his first major speech in the role, calling on the game to unite to address the problem. "I want to set the whole of English football two targets. The first is for the England team to at least reach the semi-finals of the Euro Championship in 2020 and the second is for us to win the World Cup in 2022."

Speaking on the eve of two England World Cup qualifiers and amid renewed fears over the paucity of talent available to the national coach Roy Hodgson, Dyke cited statistics that showed the number of English players in the starting lineups of top-flight clubs had slumped from 69% to 32% in the past 20 years.

Turning his attention to the recent transfer window, he said the proportion of new signings by Premier League clubs qualified to play for England had fallen from 37% to 25% in the past two years. "Last weekend only 65 English players started in the Premier League with another 14 coming on as substitutes," he said. "Taking into account that some of these players are not international standard, I think it's fair to say we already have a very small talent pool and it's getting smaller."

The former BBC director general, who took up the FA position in June, announced the formation of a commission to examine the issue that will include the new chairman of the Premier League, Anthony Fry, and the Football League chairman Greg Clarke.

He said it would report by January and examine a range of possible solutions including the feasibility of a quota system for homegrown players, a re-examination of the work permit system, a fresh look at the loan system and the possibility of introducing a winter break.

"English football – and in this context I mean football played by Englishmen – has got a problem which is much bigger than just not doing well in a couple of tournaments," Dyke said. "As I've said, England is already short of players who regularly turn out at the top level for their clubs and are qualified to play for England but the real problem is that, year by year, the position is getting worse."

Dyke, one of the architects of the Premier League in his role as a television executive, said its effect on the England side had been a victim of the "law of unintended consequences".

The FA chairman, who has given himself four years to make an impact on some of the major obstacles that have hobbled his predecessors when it comes to improving the national side, praised the opening of St George's Park, the emphasis on training more quality coaches and the overhaul of elite academies under the £340m elite player performance plan.

But he added: "Where it seems we still have a serious problem is in the transition of young players – and particularly young English players – out of academies into first-team football."

Mindful of the potential consequences of being drawn into a damaging row with the Premier League, he insisted he does not want to get into a "blame game" but said there was little doubt the situation is reaching a crisis point.

Dyke quoted a 2007 Professional Footballers Association report entitled "Meltdown" that warned the Premier League had become "a finishing school for the rest of the world, at the expense of our own players". Since then the situation has got worse, he said.

"I think the situation is serious, very serious. But saying that is easy. Before we can actually do anything we need to understand why this is happening," said Dyke, speaking at a lunch organised by the England sponsor Vauxhall.

The new commission will place Dyke in an interesting position in his new role, given the Premier League's insistence that its success has not hindered the national side.

Dyke said the new commission would answer "three simple questions: why has this happened, secondly what could be done about it and thirdly to work out how, if possible, we actually make those changes".

He said the commission would be encouraged to look for radical solutions but given the congested English fixture calendar, the Premier League's long-standing opposition to a winter break and legal issues with quotas, some of the proposed solutions could remain beyond the FA's reach.

Dyke said he had canvassed opinion across the game, including leading players and managers, before writing his speech. "In short we all have a responsibility to do our best to reverse this frightening trend because if we fail we will be letting English football down and we will be letting the nation down.

"I believe my job, as chairman of the FA, is to ensure that the structures are in place to give future England teams the best possible chance of achieving success and that is what I intend to do."

the immediate reaction to the headline is a major :rolleyes:, and really, reading the piece and Dyke's comments, there is nothing in there to back up the target - no plan, nothing.

StephenHendry

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/04/greg-dyke-england-world-cup-qatar-2022



the immediate reaction to the headline is a major :rolleyes:, and really, reading the piece and Dyke's comments, there is nothing in there to back up the target - no plan, nothing.

+ 1

good soundbite from dyke, part of the plan imo should involve the FA sending some of the best young talent to france, spain, germany to become better technically

Beefy78

StephenHendry wrote: »

+ 1

good soundbite from dyke, part of the plan imo should involve the FA sending some of the best young talent to france, spain, germany to become better technically

Ha! Being in another country won't teach someone to trap a ball. There's been major structural changes to youth coaching set-ups in England in recent years and finally an acknowledgement that what we're doing is creating a type of player who is frankly not talented enough to compete at the highest level. I'd expect there to be far more technically-able players being produced in England by the middle of the next decade anyway. I'm also in a huge minority as being a supporter of a lower league club who is in favour of the EPPP which as an England supporter I'm seeing as a massive movement towards putting the development of young players first.

There's nothing wrong with this type of ambition from Dyke and the FA. The ECCB did the same thing 10-15 years ago. They set out a target which people scoffed at which was to turn the England cricket team from being a bit of a laughing stock into being the best team in the World and for a couple of years they achieved that. The challenge that the FA will have is that the most important thing that the ECCB did was establish first and foremost that the most important entity in English Cricket was the England Cricket Team. Telling Manchester United and Liverpool that they need to commit to creating a better English football side will be much more difficult.

It needs to happen though. International Football is the single greatest advert for the game that Football has got and a strong England team can only be good for all 92 clubs. IMO a lot of the success being enjoyed by the Premier League in the last 10-15 years can be traced back to England's relative successes at Italia 90 and Euro 96.

Nuri Sahin

Beefy78 wrote: »

Ha! Being in another country won't teach someone to trap a ball. There's been major structural changes to youth coaching set-ups in England in recent years and finally an acknowledgement that what we're doing is creating a type of player who is frankly not talented enough to compete at the highest level. I'd expect there to be far more technically-able players being produced in England by the middle of the next decade anyway. I'm also in a huge minority as being a supporter of a lower league club who is in favour of the EPPP which as an England supporter I'm seeing as a massive movement towards putting the development of young players first.

There's nothing wrong with this type of ambition from Dyke and the FA. The ECCB did the same thing 10-15 years ago. They set out a target which people scoffed at which was to turn the England cricket team from being a bit of a laughing stock into being the best team in the World and for a couple of years they achieved that. The challenge that the FA will have is that the most important thing that the ECCB did was establish first and foremost that the most important entity in English Cricket was the England Cricket Team. Telling Manchester United and Liverpool that they need to commit to creating a better English football side will be much more difficult.

It needs to happen though. International Football is the single greatest advert for the game that Football has got and a strong England team can only be good for all 92 clubs. IMO a lot of the success being enjoyed by the Premier League in the last 10-15 years can be traced back to England's relative successes at Italia 90 and Euro 96.

All coincided with Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and West Indies going through lean spells, especially in terms of quality the likes of which in the main they've never experienced for any great length of time over the past two decades if not longer. That's not to say what the ECB did was flawed in any way, but they got their act together but they certainly hit the jackpot in regards to their timing [/cricket fan].

I can't see the FA within the time frame set reaching their goals set out in regards to the senior team, namely the goal of reaching the semi final of the World Cup (or whatever it was). Thirty years on from now, sure. Ten years or so, doubtful. A major slump from too many countries is needed too.

As for the gist of the press conference. There was a hint of I'm not racist but.... about it I felt. Starts at grass roots and it starts with encouraging technical ability in the right facilities. Till this is fully grasped. England are going nowhere any time soon. The FA, men in suits as well as coaches and players should spend a few days in Holland, France, Germany and Spain if at all possible and just see how things are run.

Skylinehead

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

I can't see the FA within the time frame set reaching their goals set out in regards to the senior team, namely the goal of reaching the semi final of the World Cup (or whatever it was). Thirty years on from now, sure. Ten years or so, doubtful.

It was reach the semis at Euro 2020, and win the World Cup in 2022. So go from the 3rd-4th best team in Europe to the best team in the world in 2 years.

.....right.

Nuri Sahin

Skylinehead wrote: »

It was reach the semis at Euro 2020, and win the World Cup in 2022. So go from the 3rd-4th best team in Europe to the best team in the world in 2 years.

.....right.

Jaysus, worse than I was told. Fantasy land stuff.

NTMK

Beefy78 wrote: »

Ha!Telling Manchester United and Liverpool that they need to commit to creating a better English football side will be much more difficult.

it would be a bit easier if they didnt have to deal with the farce of the 90 mile rule for under 16s that wrecked the youth systems they had in place in england.

its a bit difficult to develop highly talented youbgsters if the bigger clubs with better coaches and facilities cant recruit them

Beefy78

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

The FA, men in suits as well as coaches and players should spend a few days in Holland, France, Germany and Spain if at all possible and just see how things are run.

I'm pretty sure that they do that a lot. In fact the Dutch recently sent members of their FA over to England (and not to look at what not to do :mad: ) to try to see if there was anything they could learn from the changes that England are making. England have been relatively successful at most youth levels in the past four or five years but it has all fallen apart at U21 level.

Ultimately the biggest problem is the Premier League. There's no getting away from that. The division is so high pressured and the rewards for relative success are so high that Clubs have to field the best player for this weekend not necessarily a good young English player who may be at that same level in two or three years. And it's very difficult to argue that they shouldn't play the finished player.

The best of the talent still comes through - Jack Wilshere being a great example of that. The hope with the changes to coaching is that in ten years time England will have six or seven Jack Wilshere's coming through who are able to get games despite competing at club level with established internationals. The horse has bolted and barring a massive financial meltdown there won't be an exodus of foreign players leaving England so the key has to be improving the quality of the players England are producing.

Beefy78

Skylinehead wrote: »

It was reach the semis at Euro 2020, and win the World Cup in 2022. So go from the 3rd-4th best team in Europe to the best team in the world in 2 years.

.....right.

Since when did winning a World Cup mean being the best team in the World? It's a knock out cup competition. The best team has an advantage, obviously, in that they're the most capable. But if they lose to a dodgy refereeing decision in the last eight that doesn't make then not the best team any more.

Learning to take - and save - penalties should be the first thing England should try to do if they're serious about progressing in tournaments anyway.

NTMK wrote: »

it would be a bit easier if they didnt have to deal with the farce of the 90 mile rule for under 16s that wrecked the youth systems they had in place in england.

its a bit difficult to develop highly talented youbgsters if the bigger clubs with better coaches and facilities cant recruit them

The 90 minute rule was abolished wasn't it? I thought that was a key part of EPPP. I agree with you and, as I said, the changes were massively unpopular amongst lower division clubs who accuse the big clubs of being self-interested without seeing any sense of irony in that statement. The best players should be being trained by the best clubs with access to the best training facilities. EPPP rewards clubs not for being in a higher division but on the level of investment that they put into youth coaching, and the transfer fees that smaller clubs will earn are potentially much higher under EPPP as well if the player goes on to be a success. It's a win-win, IMO.

NTMK

Beefy78 wrote: »

Since when did winning a World Cup mean being the best team in the World? It's a knock out cup competition. The best team has an advantage, obviously, in that they're the most capable. But if they lose to a dodgy refereeing decision in the last eight that doesn't make then not the best team any more.

Learning to take - and save - penalties should be the first thing England should try to do if they're serious about progressing in tournaments anyway.



The 90 minute rule was abolished wasn't it? I thought that was a key part of EPPP. I agree with you and, as I said, the changes were massively unpopular amongst lower division clubs who accuse the big clubs of being self-interested without seeing any sense of irony in that statement. The best players should be being trained by the best clubs with access to the best training facilities. EPPP rewards clubs not for being in a higher division but on the level of investment that they put into youth coaching, and the transfer fees that smaller clubs will earn are potentially much higher under EPPP as well if the player goes on to be a success. It's a win-win, IMO.

yep it was with EPPP (didnt know it was apart of the plan) but it will still have an effect for a few years as the big teams wont have the scouting systems set up and will largely have to wait for the current academies to move on before any sign of EPPP working. 2022 is a touch optimistic imo for the results to be seen.

Beefy78

There aren't many places in England which are more than 90 minutes from a top Academy though. Maybe the South West but that's never been a footballing hotbed. The end of the 90 minute rule will usually just mean that kids in Basildon will get to chose between Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham and Southend (as the local club) as opposed to currently choosing Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham and Southend.

NTMK

Beefy78 wrote: »

There aren't many places in England which are more than 90 minutes from a top Academy though. Maybe the South West but that's never been a footballing hotbed. The end of the 90 minute rule will usually just mean that kids in Basildon will get to chose between Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham and Southend (as the local club) as opposed to currently choosing Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham and Southend.

which is true but under the 90 mile rule if that kid was over looked by the big london teams but say everton saw something in him that perhaps the london teams didnt they couldnt sign him. the more teams being able to scout the better imo as one may uncover that gem of a player that will do well for england

This is a bit difficult using the south east as an example as their are so many big clubs in london a stones throw away. the midlands may be a better example where the biggest clubs under the rule could be Derby Birmingham and Villa teams that dont exactly have facilities and european coaches the likes of the london teams and the big northren clubs will have

astonaidan

NTMK wrote: »

which is true but under the 90 mile rule if that kid was over looked by the big london teams but say everton saw something in him that perhaps the london teams didnt they couldnt sign him. the more teams being able to scout the better imo as one may uncover that gem of a player that will do well for england

This is a bit difficult using the south east as an example as their are so many big clubs in london a stones throw away. the midlands may be a better example where the biggest clubs under the rule could be Derby Birmingham and Villa teams that dont exactly have facilities and european coaches the likes of the london teams and the big northren clubs will have

Not sure Villa could be put in the didnt have the facilities section, they have one of the best youth set ups in europe

NTMK

astonaidan wrote: »

Not sure Villa could be put in the didnt have the facilities section, they have one of the best youth set ups in europe

True
Im being harsh on them in fairness but it was more of an attempt to make my point about players falling out side of the Top 6's 90 mile radius

using the south east as an example isnt great as london has a lot of top clubs in the 90 mile limit:)

Beefy78

That's true. I just used it as an example because I'm from there so I find it easiest to place.

NTMK

Beefy78 wrote: »

That's true. I just used it as an example because I'm from there so I find it easiest to place.

i guessed as much im about 20 minutes up the road from Basildon and it seems like the second a player starts to show promise about 10 london clubs try to sign him

GTR63

Skylinehead wrote: »

It was reach the semis at Euro 2020, and win the World Cup in 2022. So go from the 3rd-4th best team in Europe to the best team in the world in 2 years.

.....right.

That is the one in Dubai isn`t it. They must be banking on a load of teams pulling out of it.

Beefy78

NTMK wrote: »

i guessed as much im about 20 minutes up the road from Basildon and it seems like the second a player starts to show promise about 10 london clubs try to sign him

It's a decent example of how the process works though and why lower league clubs shouldn't necessarily fear the changes. Southend United have benefited hugely from taking in players once they've been discarded by Arsenal. Under EPPP Arsenal are going to be able to take more players in, give them access to better training, coaching and greater facilities but they can still only field 11 players at 3pm on a Saturday and the rest are going to have to go somewhere.

GavRedKing

GTR63 wrote: »

That is the one in Dubai isn`t it. They must be banking on a load of teams pulling out of it.

Qatar.

/Pedantic.

:cool:

GTR63

GavRedKing wrote: »

Qatar.

/Pedantic.

:cool:

In my head I was going Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Qatar?