England National Team Talk/News/Rumours

NIMAN

Enjoyable game tonight.

Fratton Fred

blueser wrote: »

No ''think'' about it. They will struggle. With a favourable group and a smattering of luck, they'll get to the knockout stages. However; the first decent team they'll meet, they'll go out.

It's a shame for Hodgeson but I can't see any other scenario.

He's done ok so far and I've been impressed with the team selection in the last two games, but as the saying goes, you can't polish a turd.

It would be good to see what he could do with a decent squad, but it simply isn't.

Beefy78

Spain, Germany and Holland aside (and the Netherlands is arguable) there isn't a single decent team out there. Hence bouncing between 3rd in the World and 18th in the last year. There's a bunch of 15 or so mediocre countries below that top three and England are one of those.

Fratton Fred

Beefy78 wrote: »

Spain, Germany and Holland aside (and the Netherlands is arguable) there isn't a single decent team out there. Hence bouncing between 3rd in the World and 18th in the last year. There's a bunch of 15 or so mediocre countries below that top three and England are one of those.

I've not really been paying attention to the international scene, but would you not put Italy and Argentina at the head of the chasing pack?

Beefy78

Maybe, but personally no I wouldn't. Italy and Argentina are both talented but deeply flawed sides.

You could make an argument that they're better than some of the teams in the chasing pack, but you could have made that same argument about France a year ago and now they're 25th in the World and struggling to qualify. Belgium have a lot of talent but nothing proven. Croatia and Ukraine and decent. Portugal have Ronaldo but they also have Helder Postiga up front.

I do fancy Argentina and Brazil to do well next Summer partly because of where the tournament is being held.

Columbia have looked like the best side in South America at times in qualifying but they struggled at the weekend.

ThunbergsAreGo

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Delighted, only caught last 15 minutes but great to qualify for another World Cup. Surely the media will have some realism about what can be achieved though. The usual quarter final wouldn't be a bad result at all if they got that far. Did the panel say we are unseeded for group draw?

Think i heard during the week only the first group are seeded and the rest is just by continent, not sure if thats correct though

blueser

Beefy78 wrote: »

Spain, Germany and Holland aside (and the Netherlands is arguable) there isn't a single decent team out there. Hence bouncing between 3rd in the World and 18th in the last year. There's a bunch of 15 or so mediocre countries below that top three and England are one of those.

Brazil? Argentina? Belgium? Italy? Although Belgium is open to debate as that team has not been playing together for THAT long a period. Could be a dark horse for a semi final spot though. As for England; they just haven't got enough top notch players to mount a serious challenge (and I speak as an England fan). With a fair amount of luck and a favourable breeze, they might get as far as a Q/F. And I think most rational England fans are thinking the same, even the beloved English media are trying to be sensible. Whether that will last the nearer we get to the tournament remains to be seen!!

Seaneh

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's a shame for Hodgeson but I can't see any other scenario.

He's done ok so far and I've been impressed with the team selection in the last two games, but as the saying goes, you can't polish a turd.

It would be good to see what he could do with a decent squad, but it simply isn't.

I'd worry about Italy's reliance on Balotelli and Pirlo.

Either of those two is missing and they are a totally different side.

Beefy78

What about Brazil, Argentina, Belgium or Italy?

None of them look great shakes at all (Belgium aside but we've both acknowledged that it's too early to say either way how they'll do yet).

Seaneh

Beefy78 wrote: »

What about Brazil, Argentina, Belgium or Italy?

None of them look great shakes at all (Belgium aside but we've both acknowledged that it's too early to say either way how they'll do yet).

All of those teams have a better first team than England and play better as a group.

Beefy78

I don't agree.

Brazil haven't looked like a better XI either time we've played them in the last year. Argentina have several huge holes in their side (as do England of course). Belgium....who knows?

I'm not promoting England I just think that it's slim pickings out there in international football right now. You've three teams miles ahead of the rest and then a bunch of dross who can all beat eachother.

spank_inferno

Roy Hodgson is now a racist.... Apparently.

He refered jokingly to Andros Townsend as a "space monkey" during half time of Poland game.

Townsend takes no offence & none given.

The plethora of racism groups there seem to be up in arms already.

Beefy78

The story was written by Ollie Holt in the Mirror. I quite like Ollie and hope I'm wrong about this but I'm pretty sure he's one of 'Arry's mates.

Stan Collymore's thoughts on this:
'Thought I'd read Roy ''story''. Biggest load of bollocks I've ever wasted 10 seconds reading.He gave a context laden tale for ****s sake.'

'Demeans every anti racism campaigner by having cheap pop at RH who said NOTHING WRONG. Makes campaigners seem over PC & petty. They're not.'

Kess73

spank_inferno wrote: »

Roy Hodgson is now a racist.... Apparently.

He refered jokingly to Andros Townsend as a "space monkey" during half time of Poland game.

Townsend takes no offence & none given.

The plethora of racism groups there seem to be up in arms already.

A nothing story that a couple of rags seem to be trying to turn into something.

Am no fan of Hodgson, but think this is nothing more than an attempt to stitch him up by whichever player leaked the "story".

joe316

Jeez they are only after qualifying 1 day ago and already the English media are trying to tear strips into the manager. That must be a record even for them, they are the lowest of the low.

blueser

joe316 wrote: »

Jeez they are only after qualifying 1 day ago and already the English media are trying to tear strips into the manager. That must be a record even for them, they are the lowest of the low.

That's the English media for you. Build you up, then knock you down. It's a nothing story, FFS. Townsend didn't complain, nor did any member of the squad (black or white). Hodgson has explained where the comment came from, and that it is in no way racist. PC gone mad.

retalivity

Adding 2 and 2 together and coming up with 6...

What was the big story last week concerning the english job?
Has there been anything heard from that same guy since the first one on friday night?
Who was dropped for their match on tuesday?
Besides having a gripe with being dropped, why would anyone leak this non-story?
Is there a link between the two??

:P

Beefy78

Interesting article here showing how England would have been seeded had they not scheduled so many showpiece '150th Anniversary of the FA' friendlies.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/17/england-seeded-switzerland-world-cup-draw-friendlies

Key paragraphs if anyone doesn't want to read the lot:

For example, against Sweden last November England were leading 2-1 with 15 minutes to play, made a stream of second-half substitutions and eventually lost the match 4-2. The match earned them no ranking points. Had they simply not played that game they would currently be 48.55 points better off. Six months later England won a feeble 161 points by drawing with the Republic of Ireland. Had that game also never been scheduled, England would currently be ranked by Fifa as the sixth best team in the world

Play the percentages: England would have got 543 points had they won at the Maracanã in June, but there were just 181 on offer for a draw while defeat would have left them with nothing. Meanwhile you can get 483 points for beating Peru at home, or 468 for beating Honduras. In this context the FA's decision to schedule an away friendly against Brazil, or for that matter Sweden, in the year of a World Cup finals draw is unjustifiable. Even if all their other results had been unchanged, had England played no friendlies at all in the last 12 months they would be 181 ranking points better off, and officially the fourth best team in the world.

IvySlayer

Hodgson told a joke

The societies who made the association between black people and monkeys are the racists. Someone needs to tell these outrage groups to do one.

roanoke

Beefy78 wrote: »

Interesting article here showing how England would have been seeded had they not scheduled so many showpiece '150th Anniversary of the FA' friendlies.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/17/england-seeded-switzerland-world-cup-draw-friendlies

Key paragraphs if anyone doesn't want to read the lot:

For example, against Sweden last November England were leading 2-1 with 15 minutes to play, made a stream of second-half substitutions and eventually lost the match 4-2. The match earned them no ranking points. Had they simply not played that game they would currently be 48.55 points better off. Six months later England won a feeble 161 points by drawing with the Republic of Ireland. Had that game also never been scheduled, England would currently be ranked by Fifa as the sixth best team in the world

Play the percentages: England would have got 543 points had they won at the Maracanã in June, but there were just 181 on offer for a draw while defeat would have left them with nothing. Meanwhile you can get 483 points for beating Peru at home, or 468 for beating Honduras. In this context the FA's decision to schedule an away friendly against Brazil, or for that matter Sweden, in the year of a World Cup finals draw is unjustifiable. Even if all their other results had been unchanged, had England played no friendlies at all in the last 12 months they would be 181 ranking points better off, and officially the fourth best team in the world.

That's the same for every country though. France for example are in a real pickle now because they they chose to plug their days off with friendlies against Brazil and Uruguay, which they then lost and got zero points for.

Net result of it is they dropped down into the 20's in the rankings and are now unseeded for the play-offs and have a fairly good chance of not even making it to the World Cup.

Like you say a smart country would carefully pick inferior opposition for friendlies or even have no friendlies to begin with. However in reality that's never going to happen. International teams want as many games as possible against good opposition, not only for player experience & revenue but certain fixtures are clearly arranged for political reasons. So you just have to accept them as a reality of the game.

However, I think countries just have to wake up and realize that friendlies are no longer 'friendly' and that there is real knock on effects from not doing well in them. (eg England losing first seed position at the finals or France not even qualifying).

desaparecidos

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24563131

However, Piara Powa. executive director of Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare), told the BBC that Hodgson had got it wrong.
"This was a silly phrase to use in a diverse workforce," said Powar.
"I think some players will see it as a reflection of the type of language still used by some coaches and some attitudes that still prevail."

So when you're talking about an actual monkey and using it as an analogy, you'd better not do it in the presence of black people...

Bounty Hunter

spank_inferno wrote: »

Roy Hodgson is now a racist.... Apparently.

He refered jokingly to Andros Townsend as a "space monkey" during half time of Poland game.

Townsend takes no offence & none given.

The plethora of racism groups there seem to be up in arms already.

I can't be the only one thinking about this as I read the above

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4zWdSxKYFo

Mezcita

desaparecidos wrote: »

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24563131



So when you're talking about an actual monkey and using it as an analogy, you'd better not do it in the presence of black people...

This is why the English football team is always doomed to fail. On the very night they qualify for the World Cup, their own national press comes out with this story to undermine their manager.

Dave_The_Sheep

desaparecidos wrote: »

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/24563131

However, Piara Powa. executive director of Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare), told the BBC that Hodgson had got it wrong.
"This was a silly phrase to use in a diverse workforce," said Powar.
"I think some players will see it as a reflection of the type of language still used by some coaches and some attitudes that still prevail."

So when you're talking about an actual monkey and using it as an analogy, you'd better not do it in the presence of black people...

Ah the same Powar who called someone a “coconut” on Twitter last year but denied that was racist?

So directly calling someone a coconut isn't racist, but using the word monkey, regardless of context, is? Riiiight.

The_Kew_Tour

Feel sorry for Hodgson. storm in teacup

Gringo180

Scum the English media are, especially the likes of the mirror, sun and daily mail. Any idea who leaked the story?

Who leaked the story from the dressing room?

Can't see it going away soon

Vic Vinegar

England team for tonight:

Forster

Johnson, Jones, Cahill, Baines

Milner, Lampard, Wilshere

Rodriguez, Rooney, Lallana


Interesting selection there, a couple of debuts for the Southampton duo.

A Dub in Glasgo

Sitting in a hotel in London and the England game is on. The English defence is being ripped wide open leaving no protection for Forster

Lennonist

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Sitting in a hotel in London and the England game is on. The English defence is being ripped wide open leaving no protection for Forster

A Dub in Glasgo in London:). Keep us posted on how Lurch gets on, watchin Ireland.

Professional Griefer

Poor defending again, Sanchez has been brilliant tonight.

Mr.Nice Guy

Chile are a cracking side. Tim Vickery has been praising them in the media for a good while now, and has written some nice articles on them in the BBC that are worth a look.

Definitely a side that could make waves next year if they get a kind enough draw.

Stevecw

7/1 for Chile today I think, one clever fecker in work 2day said he'd do a double of that and Ireland -1. Big win, will hear all about it on Monday.

Vic Vinegar

Stevecw wrote: »

7/1 for Chile today I think, one clever fecker in work 2day said he'd do a double of that and Ireland -1. Big win, will hear all about it on Monday.

Chile were 14/5 when i checked before the game.

NIMAN

Yip, 3/1 when I checked, they were never 7/1. Too good for that kinda price.

population

I am a big fan of Baines but my word he was all at sea tonight. Just seemed distracted or something. Also speaking as someone who watches Napoli regularly I still find it hard to fathom how we could never get a tune out of Vargas. Tidy player but one little setback to his confidence and he just seemed to give up. Looked useful tonight though.

Red Crow

Another dreadful performance from Lampard in an England shirt. Himself, Cahill and Baines were dreadful

Gringo180

Red Crow wrote: »

Another dreadful performance from Lampard in an England shirt.

His legs are gone. He shouldn't be anywhere near that England starting XI.

mike65

Bump for the match v Denmark. Its apparently been confirmed that five Liverpool players will start, please don't get injured.

greendom

mike65 wrote: »

Bump for the match v Denmark. Its apparently been confirmed that five Liverpool players will start, please don't get injured.

No weekend game so they're all likely to play 90 mins. Hopefully Ox and Wilshere don't play at all with a 12.45 ko on Saturday.

mike65

England: Hart; Johnson, Smalling, Cahill, Cole; Gerrard, Henderson, Wilshere; Sturridge, Rooney, Sterling.

Subs: Shaw, Foster, Baines, Caulker, Carrick, Milner, Lampard, Barkley, Cleverley, Lallana, Ruddy, Forster, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Townsend, Lambert, Defoe, Welbeck, Rodriguez.

Denmark: Schmeichel; Jacobsen, Kjaer, Agger, Ankersen; Kvist, Sloth, Poulsen; Larsen, Krohn-Dehli, Bendtner.

Subs: Guardian error here!

mike65

Wilshire is rushing about like a nutter.

AdamD

mike65 wrote: »

Wilshire is rushing about like a nutter.

lol. What about Agger?

Stay off and retire please

mike65

Rooney already looks cooked.

Super-Rush

mike65 wrote: »

Rooney already looks cooked.

Absolutely piss poor so far.

Won't make a run for anyone to play a pass and shoots on sight every time he gets the ball.

rob316

Rooney and wilshere absolutely awful. Play is too slow, bags of pace up front and the tactics are all wrong. Denmark should be ahead.

Vic Vinegar

Super-Rush wrote: »

Absolutely piss poor so far.

Won't make a run for anyone to play a pass and shoots on sight every time he gets the ball.

You could describe Sturridge mostly the same way.

Skylinehead

rob316 wrote: »

Rooney and wilshere absolutely awful. Play is too slow, bags of pace up front and the tactics are all wrong. Denmark should be ahead.

I thought Wilshere was as good as anybody in that half, bar maybe Sterling.

Super-Rush

I thought Wilshire played well until Agger clattered into him.

Cole and Johnson playing well, not sure of Henderson's purpose tbh.

Super-Rush

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

You could describe Sturridge mostly the same way.

4 times Sturridge had the ball looking for a pass and Rooney just stood still forcing the ball to be passed back to midfield. The one time he actually made a move and passed the ball England hit the post.