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I want to get out of development

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    #32
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Something that also helps a lot: being old. Sad but true, noone will take you seriously as a 21-23 year old. This is certainly what I experienced early in my career.

    Things may be different nowadays in hipster web-development shops however.


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    #33
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    srsly78 wrote: »
    Things may be different nowadays in hipster web-development shops however.
    Yup, in some shops it's the other way round and us old farts couldn't possibly know anything or be up to speed on the latest fads and fashions in "methodologies"*.






    * hint: unless you've got actual studies showing your methods reduce post-release defect rates, you don't have a methodology, you've got a superstition. And yes, that includes Agile for the moment.


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    #34
    KonFusion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭KonFusion


    Sparks wrote: »
    Yup, in some shops it's the other way round and us old farts couldn't possibly know anything or be up to speed on the latest fads and fashions in "methodologies".

    It's true. You old guys know nothing. With your emacs, Amstrads, and woolly jumpers. We employ a bunch of kids from the local coder dojo just to stay fresh.

    And every month we all go shopping together for brown shoes and skinny jeans :rolleyes:

    In seriousness, I don't know any web shops (in Ireland anyway) that would segregate you because you were older. I'd be really shocked if that was the case. Is it? Or are you guys just playing on what appears to be a current paradigm?


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    #35
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    KonFusion wrote: »
    It's true. You old guys know nothing. With your emacs, Amstrads, and woolly jumpers.
    hulk-punch-thor.gif

    Vim. Not emacs.
    *ahem*
    In seriousness, I don't know any web shops (in Ireland anyway) that would segregate you because you were older. I'd be really shocked if that was the case. Is it? Or are you guys just playing on what appears to be a current paradigm?
    No, I've seen it cropping up once or twice. It's never really explicit (mainly because it's highly illegal), but you start noticing that all the new hires are young, don't have much experience (or none at all), and wind up earning an absolute pittance.

    I mean, why pay 50-60k for someone with a decade of experience when you can hire a new grad whose BA ink hasn't dried yet for 20k? :rolleyes:


    In less highly illegal ways though, I've come across it in day-to-day activity every now and then, but I usually just chalk it up to personal rudeness on behalf of the gob****e responsible and get on with the job anyway :D


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    #36
    KonFusion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭KonFusion


    Sparks wrote: »
    No, I've seen it cropping up once or twice. It's never really explicit (mainly because it's highly illegal), but you start noticing that all the new hires are young, don't have much experience (or none at all), and wind up earning an absolute pittance.

    I mean, why pay 50-60k for someone with a decade of experience when you can hire a new grad whose BA ink hasn't dried yet for 20k? :rolleyes:

    Ah ok. Yeah I've seen that a lot. I was thinking more along the lines of hiring someone purely because they were younger, regardless of the fact they could pay them less etc.


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    #37
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Sparks wrote: »

    I mean, why pay 50-60k for someone with a decade of experience when you can hire a contractor with the same experience for double that amount? :P

    fixd


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    #38
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,557 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    KonFusion wrote: »
    In seriousness, I don't know any web shops (in Ireland anyway) that would segregate you because you were older. I'd be really shocked if that was the case. Is it? Or are you guys just playing on what appears to be a current paradigm?
    As someone who's been in IT 20+ years, I can only restate what Tom Peters said about the IT sector...it's all about fashion, not technology.

    I've seen them all come and go - 4GL, Client/Server, RAD, n Tier, SAP/R3, Java, Extreme Programming and of late, MVC and Agile.

    ...and now it's all come full circle with the inter-web-net. Anyone who cut their teeth coding form-based IBM COBAL/MVS in the 60's/70's would feel more at home nowadays than someone who learnt their trade in the more 'interactive' fat-client days of the late 80's/early 90's.

    The one thing all my 'older' colleagues bemoan about the younger generation of coders is their complete lack of communication skills. Was it ever thus in IT?

    IT as a sector was always in dire-need of maturation, however the process seems to have gone a little to far with people becoming more specialised, or as Kenneth Williams put it about the medical profession "better and better at less and less!".


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    #39
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    Wait, what? Is Agile gone now?

    **** yeah! /opens champagne


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    #40
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    srsly78 wrote: »
    Wait, what? Is Agile gone now?

    **** yeah! /opens champagne

    Wait, let's have a retrospective on our use of Agile first.. :pac:


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    #41
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    If Agile is gone from mainstream use, it means it's just about to hit the larger, more moribund process-oriented organisations...


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    #42
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    That should be about two years for our place so! I can see the headlines already, "Agile Evangelists lose Faith"


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    #43
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Sparks wrote: »
    If Agile is gone from mainstream use, it means it's just about to hit the larger, more moribund process-oriented organisations...
    Agile to be incorporated into Prince2?

    *Shudder*


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    #44
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,557 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Agile to be incorporated into Prince2?
    ...and thus a new methodology is born....FUtile V1.0

    Seriously, Agile is good. However, most large organisations are so process bound that they can't implement it without miring it with a layer of procedure that's counteractive to the very essence of Agile itself.

    I sometimes wonder about the sanity of some of my fellow IT'ers when I see posts like the guy who posted on here who used the question about multiple class inheritance being allowed in C# as a 'catch-out' question when interviewing developers.


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