The Fall (RTE1/BBC2) [** Spoilers **]

JoeA3

I found much of last night's episode very implausible.

I'll spoiler it, just incase:

So his wife suggests he should go in to the police after he's shown on CCTV. Why didn't he just pretend he went in and tell the wife it was routine, done and dusted? She'd have taken his word for it.... unless of course the police continued to appeal for him to come forward of course!

Then the line of questioning he got when he did go in. It seemed very OTT and aggressive for a guy who'd just voluntarily presented himself to "help" the investigation.

Why didn't he give the wife a less incriminating story when she caught him out? Tell her it was perhaps a random patient he'd been having an affair with, rather than an underage girl? Or even something less incriminating, like he spent every evening in the 24 hour gym or something!

Then he rings the cop shop and speaks directly to the man who'd interviewed him earlier. Surely the cop would recognize the voice and the mannerisms of a man he'd recently quite aggressively interviewed?

betonit

what I thought was going to happen was they would have posted the drawing of the pregnant woman to see if anyone recognized teachers etc. that with the cctv would have been more plausible, and the mother in law to cop it on, the one who thought that the childs necklace was strange

Meathlass

I thought it was a good ending - didn't realise there was a second series. I would have been happy if it ended like that. The bad guys don't always get caught.

One of the creepiest bits was when they were in the car singing the song with the kids. It sounds so harmless but If you listen to the lyrics in the context of the whole show

"The boys won't leave the girls alone, they pulled my hair and stole my comb ... she is handsome, she is pretty .... please won't you tell me who is she"

Alibear

I'm delighted that there's another series, as I thoroughly enjoyed it, but if last night was the very last episode then I would've been extremely disappointed. I was left even more confused than ever

syklops

Meathlass wrote: »

One of the creepiest bits was when they were in the car singing the song with the kids. It sounds so harmless but If you listen to the lyrics in the context of the whole show "The boys won't leave the girls alone, they pulled my hair and stole my comb ... she is handsome, she is pretty .... please won't you tell me who is she"

Well spotted!

numorouno

Limerick91 wrote: »

Quick question, who did the PSNI interview to get the Identikit picture.

The girl he was with in college that Gibson interviewed I presume

cofy

Does anyone know why Stella was almost in tears when she looked at the picture of the suspect. It seems to be one of the strongest emotions she has shown throughout the series.

brian_t

JoeA3 wrote: »

I found much of last night's episode very implausible.

Then the line of questioning he got when he did go in. It seemed very OTT and aggressive for a guy who'd just voluntarily presented himself to "help" the investigation.

Yes it was but not when you consider that he and his daughter were the only other persons shown on the CCTV footage on the news.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

vepyewwo wrote: »

That would make more sense. For some reason with the wife packing up boxes in the kitchen and Paul telling Stella he was finished, I was under the impression they were leaving for good.

I assumed she was just packing up any food that they were taking with them? Stuff that would go off while they were away, or even just throwing it out?

Amazingfun wrote: »

One thing about our killer that may come back to help alert them to him (besides the sketch which looks like a bloody photo of him, and the victim surviving) is his childhood. Many serial killers have very abusive/unusual childhoods, and Paul does too.
.

Someone mentioned before about maybe Gibson was projecting herself onto Paul's daughter when she was talking about how finding out what her daddy was really like would kill her. It's possible, but, I'm wondering if in fact it was Paul's dad who killed his mum, thus resulting in Paul/Peter being in care homes for most of his childhood. Also, I mentioned it before but the story he fed the baby sitter about the hair being his mothers seemed like a really weird lie to just think up on the spot. It could be that his mother was the same as his victims, like they're surrogates for her. Maybe. I'm just spit balling here.

brian_t wrote: »

The Police corruption storyline and the murder of the Officer seemed to have no connection to the main Stella/Spector story nor add anything to it.

Ultimately it came to nothing anyway.

What was the point of it.

The only thing I could think there was that it was to show some character background for Gibson. The way she went about propositioning the younger officer, her reaction to his death and finding out he was married, the fact she had at some point had an affair with Cantona too. For what little it did show us of her it didn't seem necessary to drag it through all 5 episodes.

I'm leaning towards the second series having one or two episodes dedicated to catching Paul and then the rest will be the process of interviewing him and revealing the why of it all, and I assume the other police stuff will carry on in the background too?
There was a lot of stuff seemed random throughout these episodes but most of them tied in somehow by the end, so I'd hope they'll have a reason for all that too.

Pretzill

Well an anti climax, I endured the series because it had some merit - but all through it I kept thinking if it had been a two part feature length, rather like Prime Suspect a lot of it could have ended up on the editing floor - I just thought there were many unnecessary scenes - and I still think Gibson's character is poor - too many slow motion scenes, just not buying her fake, ice maiden thing at all - yeah 5 commercial hours which could have been reduced to 3 and with a conclusion - a second series could have just been another creepy case - The trouble is I'll probably watch the second series just to see the ffer caught!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Amazingfun

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

http://www.tvmuse.eu/tv-shows/The-Fall_34859/

ivytwine

Amazingfun wrote: »

You may be interested in watching the serial killer documentaries on this site. It's incredible how "normal" many of them appeared to be:

http://www.darkdocumentaries.com/

Look especially at the Russell Williams one, as it's already been noted in the papers, etc, this killer in "The Fall" was based in part on him, and also Dennis Rader in Kansas (BTK).
And yes, the 'real life' serial killers are far more terrifying than any fictional show if you ask me!

This Canadian doc is brilliant: (Russel Williams)
http://www.darkdocumentaries.com/serial-killer-documentaries/the-confession-2010

48 Hours covered it too:
http://www.darkdocumentaries.com/serial-killer-documentaries/name-rank-serial-killer-2011

And this is BTK (Dennis Rader):
http://www.darkdocumentaries.com/serial-killer-documentaries/btk-confessions-2004

Thanks for the links, find all this stuff so interesting, will definitely sit down and watch some of those docs soon!

vepyewwo wrote: »

That would make more sense. For some reason with the wife packing up boxes in the kitchen and Paul telling Stella he was finished, I was under the impression they were leaving for good.

I thought it was because she was thinking of leaving him and had taken stuff to her parents' house??

smcgiff

JoeA3 wrote: »

I found much of last night's episode very implausible.

I'll spoiler it, just incase:

So his wife suggests he should go in to the police after he's shown on CCTV. Why didn't he just pretend he went in and tell the wife it was routine, done and dusted? She'd have taken his word for it.... unless of course the police continued to appeal for him to come forward of course!

Then the line of questioning he got when he did go in. It seemed very OTT and aggressive for a guy who'd just voluntarily presented himself to "help" the investigation.

Why didn't he give the wife a less incriminating story when she caught him out? Tell her it was perhaps a random patient he'd been having an affair with, rather than an underage girl? Or even something less incriminating, like he spent every evening in the 24 hour gym or something!

Then he rings the cop shop and speaks directly to the man who'd interviewed him earlier. Surely the cop would recognize the voice and the mannerisms of a man he'd recently quite aggressively interviewed?

Good point about him pretending to go to the police.

However, I think the affair excuse was plausible. It's what was going through my head as an excuse as he said it. I don't think, going to a gym type excuse would have worked. Remember his wife had to lie to the police for him. Why do that if he was just going to the gym. She was also suspicious of him, and this excuse scratched that itch.

FouxDaFaFa

brian_t wrote: »

The Police corruption storyline and the murder of the Officer seemed to have no connection to the main Stella/Spector story nor add anything to it.

Ultimately it came to nothing anyway.

What was the point of it.

I think it laid the framework for uncovering very widespread corruption in the PSNI. Like in one of the final scenes, when Cantona is confronted and called a "weak man" and accused of intentionally delaying the arrest so the guy could escape. We're meant to think he would never do something like that because he's kind of soft for a person in such a high-ranking position but maybe he did?

It creates suspicion, even if ultimately nothing comes of it.

smcgiff

Limerick91 wrote: »

Quick question, who did the PSNI interview to get the Identikit picture.

When Paul was on the run after stabbing the guy with a scissors didn't he have to run through a bunch of kids, that eventually went into the crime scene. Didn't he have his mask down by then... I think it was those kids, but it wasn't very clear.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

smcgiff wrote: »

Good point about him pretending to go to the police.

However, I think the affair excuse was plausible. It's what was going through my head as an excuse as he said it. I don't think, going to a gym type excuse would have worked. Remember his wife had to lie to the police for him. Why do that if he was just going to the gym. She was also suspicious of him, and this excuse scratched that itch.

The wife brought up the point that if he hadn't gone to the police someone else would probably recognise him on the tape and bring it to their attention, or indeed the police may have made further appeals for the guy on the tape to come forward. Although they didn't mention it I'm sure the scumbags that were hassling him when he was scoping out the third victims house (around the corner from his patients) could have made the connection there and come forward, which would have put him near two of the victims, so it really was his only option.

As for the affair story. He couldn't say he had been anywhere like a gym, or pub or whatever because the police could prove that if needed so there would have been no need for his wife to lie to the police about it. She was the one that concluded it was with the baby sitter after he tried to brush it off as being over. It worked well for him for her to think that because the evidence kind of fit and he knew he could manipulate the girl into doing/saying whatever he needed her to.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

smcgiff wrote: »

When Paul was on the run after stabbing the guy with a scissors didn't he have to run through a bunch of kids, that eventually went into the crime scene. Didn't he have his mask down by then... I think it was those kids, but it wasn't very clear.

It was the pathologists friend from the week before gave the description. The uniformed PSNI lady said it as she was handing Gibson the picture.

smcgiff

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

It worked well for him for her to think that because the evidence kind of fit and he knew he could manipulate the girl into doing/saying whatever he needed her to.

Yip - and that's why Paul visited her in her house. Now if his wife confronts the girl she'll feel guilty and act like she had an affair with him.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

smcgiff wrote: »

Yip - and that's why Paul visited her in her house. Now if his wife confronts the girl she'll feel guilty and act like she had an affair with him.

It was really quite clever how that all tied in. The babysitter was so annoying for most of the episodes and I didn't get the point of her. We knew he wasn't interested in her sexually, or as a victim, she was too young, and the whole thing where the wife left them there drinking when she had to go to work. We all thought she was dumb but it turns out she had some suspicions even if she didn't realise it at the time.

Meathlass

He needed to go to the police. As they said in the show, some of the neighbours or his colleagues would recognise him and tell the police so he needed to go voluntarily.

There's an article with the writer in The Guardian on Friday. He said it was commissioned for a second series due to the positive reception Ep 1 got. Does this mean that they changed the ending to leave it more open or that this is the original ending? Maybe someone who works in tv could shed some light on whether changes like that could be made or common in a few weeks.

He also said that series 2 will involve more killings and not just of young women.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Meathlass wrote: »

There's an article with the writer in The Guardian on Friday. He said it was commissioned for a second series due to the positive reception Ep 1 got. Does this mean that they changed the ending to leave it more open or that this is the original ending? Maybe someone who works in tv could shed some light on whether changes like that could be made or common in a few weeks.

He also said that series 2 will involve more killings and not just of young women.

I'm not an expert, I have no clue, but I did think the very last scene with your woman telling Gibson that the last girl had woken up seemed a bit tacked on? For one you only heard her voice telling Gibson, which could have been added in in ADR, which often happens if they decide to change or add something after it's been shot.
Granted we did see Gibson listening to the recording of the phone call and that so it's possible that this bit was filmed just in case they got a second series and could carry it on from there. It did seem like the scene with the family singing in the car could have been the intended ending if it was only to be one series. Like someone said, the bad guy doesn't always get caught.

You could have interpreted that as him getting away and Gibson "losing". Or as him thinking he's gotten away but with all the info and the picture they had of him it would only be a matter of time before they got him.

As for more killings in series 2 I'd assume that would be him killing people in an attempt to escape capture. He was just killing the women, and Gibson described him as a sexual sadist, he was getting off on feeling their pain, but in the last attack he stabbed the hell out of that guy, which means he is also capable of killing just for the sake of it, when necessary.

Northern Ireland being part of the UK would mean that even in Scotland he's in the same jurisdiction and if the PSNI have identified him then police all over the UK would be on the look out. It's possible he'd be spotted in Scotland and as a result he could go on the run, or go into hiding, resulting in any possible number of victims. Just my thoughts on it though

odonnellcarey

Meathlass wrote: »

There's an article with the writer in The Guardian on Friday.

Interesting article. Here's a linky.
The Fall's writer Allan Cubitt on women and violence in TV drama

Sittingpretty

Just watched the final episode, very disappointed with the conclusion.

Anyone any idea when the next series airs?

wicklowwonder

I wonder does he stop killing but then the guy who clamped his car kills/injures his wife and unborn child so Paul goes after him to deliver his own justice.

starlit

Be a lot of twists in next series though so say ending for series 1 is fairly open in how series 2 will go.

Interesting a lot of former hollyoaks is on it.

Only realised recently 'paul' starred in 'once upon a time' as the 'huntsman' he seems to do well as a killer and is believable only for the beard I think. Yet he let snow white go....the whole heart thing for the queen. He died though in once upon a time.

brian_t

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Just watched the final episode, very disappointed with the conclusion.

Anyone any idea when the next series airs?

Does anyone have any idea when the next series will be filmed might be a better question. :pac:

I think Gillian Anderson is busy on a couple of projects at present.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

brian_t wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea when the next series will be filmed might be a better question. :pac:

I think Gillian Anderson is busy on a couple of projects at present.

No idea. I think the main issue with a second series was securing Anderson for it. She did mention on a BBC NI interview (before the 2nd one was announced) that she'd be back in Belfast to film something else, so I thought maybe they'd try and fit it in when she was doing that, but it seems to be filming at the moment, so I guess not.

Jamie Dornan is currently in hospital after a 2nd shoulder surgery. So I assume there's no plans for the immediate future to film it.

brian_t

The Fall DVD will be released next Monday June 17

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Fall-DVD-Gillian-Anderson/dp/B00979JUU6

brian_t

Gibson and Reed Smith arriving on motorbike at the hospital to see Annie Brawley.

brian_t

Phillipethe3rd

Am I mistaken in thinking that the reason Olsen being shot is shown is because the monroes are involved in the same crime ring, and Alice Monroe is a victim of Spector?

And maybe the ending was always a cliffhanger...of course the creators wanted it to be shown another season...what better incentive?

Also I think Paul knew his wife would suspect Katie....as she doesn't think he's around anyone else. He wouldn't have needed her to lie if he was having an affair with a woman, the fact she is underage is key.

vepyewwo

Someone on another forum made a comment that the reason for the subplots (wife beater/prostitutes) was to reinforce the central theme of the show - violence against women, men using women as sexual objects etc. Quite a good point.

An interesting review of the series from Radio times.
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-06-10/why-the-end-of-the-fall-was-a-big-disappointment

ivytwine

Another thing that's bothering me is Paul's car, which he burnt out. Now if my husband came home without his car I think I might notice a one-ton metal object with wheels missing from the house, but the wife didn't even seem to cop it?

I was a little disappointed in the final. Very obviously a play for the second series, and I thought Stella's misogyny speech a bit heavy handed. I also wanted to see him caught.

Mind you, the stuff with the babysitter was a brilliant touch, as was Sarah Kay's father at the press conference, really humanising the victims which doesn't always happen with crime dramas.

Reginald P. DuM

The Fall intrigued me at the start, RTE/BBC's stab at Criminal Minds/Hannibal etc.. How would it go?! Answer : badly. The booking of Anderson was no less intriguing, if a little bemusing. Her performance was ok, though its fair to say her career has hit the rocks. It was one of the slowest TV shows that I have ever watched. Nothing happened first episode til the last few mins, hardly a tactic good American TV writers deploy. Gammy northern accents, sub plots that both took from the central theme and werent fully explored given the 5 episode format, hence were pointless. Spector in his daily life was an absolute creep, no sociopathic serial killer I have ever seen displayed such a dislikable character. Would stand out like a sore thumb in the real world. If the next series hasn't begun filming yet, which is likely, I am hoping they see the light and pull the plug. I won't watch, 5 hrs is enough to devote to mediocrity.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Reginald P. DuM wrote: »

It was one of the slowest TV shows that I have ever watched. Nothing happened first episode til the last few mins, hardly a tactic good American TV writers deploy.

Interested to know what you consider "good American TV", as far as I can see there's not a lot of it out there at the moment.

Gammy northern accents,

It's set in Belfast, what kind of accents would you have them use? Bar Simon Delaney everyone was using their own accents. If you personally have an issue with the NI accent that's your issue, it shouldn't reflect on the quality of a show.

Spector in his daily life was an absolute creep, no sociopathic serial killer I have ever seen displayed such a dislikable character. Would stand out like a sore thumb in the real world.

Again interested to know, how many sociopath serial killers have you known in their daily lives?

Did they ever actually classify him as a sociopath? I can't remember, I know they said he was a sadist, but I can't remember what else they called him.

The Black Oil

RTE/BBC version of Criminal Minds/Hannibal. What? Those shows are pretty different and The Fall is different again. Anderson's career hasn't hit the rocks. To suggest so is daft.

esox28

Was that it...? Is there another showing, don't see it programmed for next Sunday rte, did I miss something.

Its no love/hate but gripping non the less.

AnonoBoy

esox28 wrote: »

Was that it...? Is there another showing, don't see it programmed for next Sunday rte, did I miss something.

Unfortunately that is it for this series. Poor end but they are making a second one (really the second half of the first series I'd say) - so it'll probably be out next year.

Dandelion6

Reginald P. DuM wrote: »

pointless. Spector in his daily life was an absolute creep, no sociopathic serial killer I have ever seen displayed such a dislikable character. Would stand out like a sore thumb in the real world.

That was my main issue with it too. I don't know what serial killers' personalities are normally like, but he was so creepy I found it really hard to believe everyone around him didn't think there was something seriously wrong with him.

FouxDaFaFa

I don't get where people are getting the "he was so creepy in real life that it was unrealistic" thing. Some of the things he did were creepy, to us, because we know why he is doing them. But to a normal outsider he seems like a pretty good guy. Maybe a little quiet, but takes his daughter to the park, has a caring job, etc.

brian_t

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

I don't get where people are getting the "he was so creepy in real life that it was unrealistic" thing. Some of the things he did were creepy, to us, because we know why he is doing them. But to a normal outsider he seems like a pretty good guy. Maybe a little quiet, but takes his daughter to the park, has a caring job, etc.

I agree with all this. If anything I felt they made his character a bit too normal.

In all his interaction with his wife when she reacted to the "affair" he showed no sign of his other side.

I also felt the same in his phone conversation with Stella.

His only really strange reaction was when he started repeating everything when boss was repremanding him.

FloatingVoter

brian_t wrote: »

His only really strange reaction was when he started repeating everything when boss was repremanding him.

Even then he was just emphasising the fact that his boss was boring the wick out of him by adhering to rules and regulations.

Mister R

Won't be watching series 2. Honestly its ridiculous it wasn't to compete with the likes of US cable shows and Scandanvian drama and falls flat in comparison.

I have no interest in any of these characters wether the live or die, no character was developed at any point, the level at which the police are inept in this hardly does the PSNI any favours. Also the pussyfooting around the elephant in the room (sectarianism) was so weird.

AnonoBoy

Mister R wrote: »

Also the pussyfooting around the elephant in the room (sectarianism) was so weird.

It was a story about a serial killer..... didn't see any pussy-footing around sectariansim myself because it wasn't a factor of the main story at all.

Mister R

That's like setting a drama in East Jereusalem and not mentioning any conflict between Jews and Arabs and pretending the police force there operates like a normal one.

Also was it even a story about a serial killer, the police seemed more interested in the Breedlove/Olsen/Monroe crap than about the serial killer on the loose.

Phillipethe3rd

Mister R wrote: »

That's like setting a drama in East Jereusalem and not mentioning any conflict between Jews and Arabs and pretending the police force there operates like a normal one.

Also was it even a story about a serial killer, the police seemed more interested in the Breedlove/Olsen/Monroe crap than about the serial killer on the loose.

They mentioned policing being political, advised Stella to get a gun, and she asked if there was explosives at a crime scene when she seen all the furore. Daniels father used the term 'taig' (look it up) and they spoke about falls road etc.

Would it not have been more predictable to centre it around the conflict? In my opinion is was fairer to the people of Northern Ireland to do it this way, rather than continually make out its all about the IRA and the loyalists.

joeyla

Disappointing finale....Shouldn't he be caught.

The police had him write down all the places he had been in care homes growing up and I thought how cleaver of them, now they have a hand writing sample and will compare to the letter the serial killer sent to the Dad of one of the victims....game over.

But he still gets away without anyone checking or even comparing it....very weak end after some great initial episodes.

Mister R

Yes because having a corrupt and inept police force is a fair representation of people in Belfast, a force that needs a good English gal to sort them out. Frankly this show could have been set in Sheffield, Newcastle, Manchester etc. Belfast is a total irrelevance, her firing a gun was about as Belfast as it got.

They spoke about the Falls but it's proximity to the Shankill which also popped up was never shown, like they looked like opposite ends of the city, the city itself had no depth or sense of location, it could have all been filmed in any UK city.

The local cast were wooden and so desperately trying to do "intense" this could have been a spin off of an American soap the acting got so hammy.

When the Amazing Race visited Belfast they also glossed over any conflict points despite addressing similar issues in other countries, obviously Belfast authorities don't realise the "terror tours" and the like are actually a popular tourist attraction these days and glossing over it and shoving the Titanic down our throat is just hiding issues not eradicating them.

brian_t

The Fall final episode was the most watched programme on RTE beating Prime Time and Fair City.

I think RTE will be pleased.

http://www.medialive2.com/television/latest-top-20-programmes/latest-top-20-programmes.html