Fianna Fáil most popular party, new poll shows

Colonel Sanders

armchair fusilier wrote: »

It's curious how this has happened. The media, by and large, have been ignoring them over the past few years. Their frontbenchers don't have particularly high profiles, I think most people would struggle to name that many of them. Michael Martin doesn't get that much attention either. Yet here they are. Maybe that's the secret of their apparent success.

I disagree. They get far more air time than you'd expect for a party that is (for now at least) an irrelevant opposition party with only 19 seats

The Sunday Independent's front page week after week is attach after attack on the coalition with not so subtle hints that things would be better under FF

michael999999

vinylbomb wrote: »

This is probably correct, and also the most depressing element of the whole thing.
To go from voting FF (moderate Right) to SF (mainly Left but also Right depending on mood/time of day/spin of roulette wheel) or the Independents, some of whom are so far to the Left Marx (Karl, Groucho would see the funny side) would worry about them and then return to voting FF (mod Right) crooks, liars and fraudsters just shows how little policy and political stance matter to a large chuink of the electorate.

I fear predictions that we're doomed to repeat our balls-ups are going to be proved correct.

FYP

Colonel Sanders

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I disagree. They get far more air time than you'd expect for a party that is (for now at least) an irrelevant opposition party with only 19 seats

The Sunday Independent's front page week after week is attach after attack on the coalition with not so subtle hints that things would be better under FF

Alot of the Sunday Indo columnists are either FF or ex FF.

michael999999

mayomaffia wrote: »

Alot of the Sunday Indo columnists are either FF or ex FF.

You mean like Independents politic editor Fionann Sheehan who's wife is Fianna fail senator Avril Power.

Surely no bias there.

hfallada

Fine Gael and labour made promises they couldn't keep during the election and got people hopes to high. A lot of people I believe thought the economy would be booming within a year or two.

Even through both of them couldn't do much do to the bailout conditions. Although people call FF scumbags a majority were highly educated such as lawyers. I believe a lawyer could negotiate a bailout deal than a teacher. I think FG and labour is full of teachers who I believe shouldn't a business never mind a country.

Plus think the morals of FG and labour are two different one has the values of a 21st century liberal. The other has the values of a 1800s nun. Either way I cant see the two parties lasting a year

carlop

oscarBravo wrote: »

Yes, I've noticed how the criticism of FG recently has centred almost exclusively on how they're pandering to populist demands. :pac:

I should have specified when in opposition.

Silentcorner

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The finances will be an interesting one to watch, an insight into the parties financial position will be provided at the upcoming Ard Fheis. The annual superdraw was apparently a success this year with recepits up 10%, and considering the party has access to alternative revenue streams as a result of the adoption of 'One Member, One Vote' I would imagine that the financial position is improving relatively quickly.

If I remember correctly the plan was for the party to be completely out of debt by the end of this year, with a sizeable 'war-chest' of funds having being built up in time for the 2014 elections.

That is the most depressing thing that I have heard since we entered the IMF program

It appears the cancer is growing again....this will have devastating effect for Irish citizens in the future

michael999999

michael999999 wrote: »

You mean like Independents politic editor Fionann Sheehan who's wife is Fianna fail senator Avril Power.

Surely no bias there.

as well as WOD, the FF puppet that went for the presidency and Berties ex partner, Not forgetting Cowans friend Jody Corcoran.

Fr Tod Umptious

hfallada wrote: »

.....
Even through both of them couldn't do much do to the bailout conditions. Although people call FF scumbags a majority were highly educated such as lawyers. I believe a lawyer could negotiate a bailout deal than a teacher. I think FG and labour is full of teachers who I believe shouldn't a business never mind a country. ........

That's a stupid theory.
If the lawyers in FF are better negotiators then how come they saddled us with such bad deal.

Sierra Oscar

michael999999 wrote: »

You mean like Independents politic editor Fionann Sheehan who's wife is Fianna fail senator Avril Power.

Surely no bias there.

You mean Fionann Sheehan, the former member of YFG member who held a national position within the organisation and whose family are prominent FG'ers in Thurles?

Anyone who thinks Fionann is a mouthpiece for FF is very misinformed of reality.

lotusm

Originally Posted by hfallada
.....
Even through both of them couldn't do much do to the bailout conditions. Although people call FF scumbags a majority were highly educated such as lawyers. I believe a lawyer could negotiate a bailout deal than a teacher. I think FG and labour is full of teachers who I believe shouldn't a business never mind a country. ........

Brian Cowen qualified as a solicitor.... and your point is ?;)

bmaxi

Never doubted this day would come and I was another who predicted it. The only saving grace is that the faces, Martin and O'Dea the exception, have changed and they now have some more impressive faces in the line up, Michael Mc Grath is one who comes to mind.
The country's woes stemmed from the Haughey cult, with them gone from the scene and the push to impose candidates on constituencies, rather than use selection through the Cumainn, hopefully abandoned, the proliferation of "yes men" on the front bench will stop. This can only be a good thing.
FG have less than impressive front benchers in Hogan and Varadkar. Bruton, of whom much was expected, has been a damp squib. Labour, with the possible exception of Howlin and Burton, are seemingly just along for the ride. The statement by Rabbitte that pre-election promises were never intended to be honoured was the deal breaker for me.
I suppose we can comfort ourselves with the knowledge that, at least the likes of Ahern, Dempsey, Coughlan, Cullen and Cowen are gone from the scene. Think of the Italians, they're facing the prospect of the return of Berlusconi, now there's a horror movie. :eek:

AllGunsBlazing

The Browser wrote: »

The coalition should call a snap election on the back of the deal with the ECB. They'd surely get back in and thereby have seven years in office.

I think you overestimate the effect that deal has had on the mood of the average man on the street. If it results in a less austere budget for 2014 then they will receive a bounce in the polls.

Mr.Micro

Irish people do not like regulation or accountability, so bring back the Party which stands for all that and excess aka FF. You gotta laugh.

michael999999

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

You mean Fionann Sheehan, the former member of YFG member who held a national position within the organisation and whose family are prominent FG'ers in Thurles?

Anyone who thinks Fionann is a mouthpiece for FF is very misinformed of reality.

I know what I hear, he's on the radio every chance he gets. No one can tell me he doesn't have something against Fine Gael. He's like a dog with a bone!

COYW

I said it on countless occasions before on boards. I would not be surprised if FF are back in government by the time the next election comes about. There is no viable alternative to them. FF have been doing an awful lot of work re-building their party at local level. Most of the old guard have vanished off the scene and have been replaced by younger people. I am no FF fan but Michael McGrath's budget speech last year was one of the best I heard in a long time. It was head and shoulders above any of the other speeches that day.

Sierra Oscar

michael999999 wrote: »

I know what I hear, he's on the radio every chance he gets. No one can tell me he doesn't have something against Fine Gael. He's like a dog with a bone!

To be fair, he was the same when FF were in government.

JRant

If Martin is still leader come the next general election I don't think they'll do'll that well. A large proportion of voters are undecided right up to polling time and I think people will just sway from FF if someone who was knee deep in the shenanigans is at the helm.

Watching the IRBC resolution bill debate the other night, it was noticable how friendly FF and FG were with each other. Could it be the begining of a beautiful relationship? Laying the ground work for a possible coalition next time out.
It would be clever politics if FG pulled the plug early on this administration as Labour will take a huge hit, FF would still be rebuilding and it might catch them on the hop and FG support seems pretty stable.

ninty9er

From what I hear internally, a lot of families who would once have been strong organisational lieutenants to Lemass and Haughey are making a comeback within the party in Dublin after Bertie's departure.

If analysed, it would not surprise me if all of that increase came from entirely within Dublin, where the "renewal" process seems to be having the most profound effect, most likely because there aren't public representatives to mess with it. Look at constituency polling and you'll probably find FF isn't as stong where it has long-serving TDs as it now is in Dublin.

I'm hearing rumbles of a 3rd generation of Haughey contesting elections in Dublin in the near future. I'm not sure whether to be glad or sad about that as I don't know the individual involved, but so long as that individual is themselves interested and dedicated I would not tarnish them with the previous generations' wrongdoings.

ArmaniJeanss

JRant wrote: »

It would be clever politics if FG pulled the plug early on this administration as Labour will take a huge hit, FF would still be rebuilding and it might catch them on the hop and FG support seems pretty stable.

Fairly risky strategy as so much can go wrong during the 5 weeks of an election campaign, especially when you start from a 'why did they call an unnecessary election the country cant afford wont someone think of the children?' basis.
Also unpopular with their backbenchers as whilst FG would likely win theres no doubt that probably 6-10 TDs would struggle to retain their seats.

*****
In general I think people go overboard on these polls as they are very much a 'who is your number One vote?' question, whereas close to 70% of seats are filled by second and lower preferences. Clearly FF appear to have solidified their core vote but I suspect they will still be relatively toxic when it comes to transfers.
The days of them getting 3 seats in a 5 seater via strict vote management and transfers leading to the last 2 seats being got barely (or even without) reaching the quota are still far away imo.

Mr.Micro

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Fairly risky strategy as so much can go wrong during the 5 weeks of an election campaign, especially when you start from a 'why did they call an unnecessary election the country cant afford wont someone think of the children?' basis.
Also unpopular with their backbenchers as whilst FG would likely win theres no doubt that probably 6-10 TDs would struggle to retain their seats.

*****
In general I think people go overboard on these polls as they are very much a 'who is your number One vote?' question, whereas close to 70% of seats are filled by second and lower preferences. Clearly FF appear to have solidified their core vote but I suspect they will still be relatively toxic when it comes to transfers.
The days of them getting 3 seats in a 5 seater via strict vote management and transfers leading to the last 2 seats being got barely (or even without) reaching the quota are still far away imo.

Arguably if things improve for people by the next election, they may be more and more reluctant to throw it away on the toxic FF and all the risk and excess that goes with that lot. Common sense does not always prevail and the self destruction gene will kick in.

COYW

JRant wrote: »

If Martin is still leader come the next general election I don't think they'll do'll that well. A large proportion of voters are undecided right up to polling time and I think people will just sway from FF if someone who was knee deep in the shenanigans is at the helm.

Watching the IRBC resolution bill debate the other night, it was noticable how friendly FF and FG were with each other. Could it be the begining of a beautiful relationship? Laying the ground work for a possible coalition next time out.
It would be clever politics if FG pulled the plug early on this administration as Labour will take a huge hit, FF would still be rebuilding and it might catch them on the hop and FG support seems pretty stable.

I didn't want to post it but I noticed that too. There has been an easing respect flowing between the parties for the last few months, MM and Enda in particular. It would be a dreadful coalition though; they would have a huge majority and I don't feel at ease with that. Labour would be in tatters, so the opposition would be SF and the usual independent suspects, who have little or nothing in terms of pull.

fozz10

we deserve everything we get in this country.

cast_iron

COYW wrote: »

I didn't want to post it but I noticed that too. There has been an easing respect flowing between the parties for the last few months, MM and Enda in particular.

It's because on the big issues, both parties broadly agree. If FF didn't agree with FG on this deal, they would be advocating a default on our sovereign debts, a la Sinn Fein position.
Broadly speaking, the electorate doesn't agree with default, so FF could only agree this deal was the way forward.

Mr.Micro

COYW wrote: »

I didn't want to post it but I noticed that too. There has been an easing respect flowing between the parties for the last few months, MM and Enda in particular. It would be a dreadful coalition though; they would have a huge majority and I don't feel at ease with that. Labour would be in tatters, so the opposition would be SF and the usual independent suspects, who have little or nothing in terms of pull.

Indeed the lure of power often creates strange bedfellows. It would be totally unacceptable IMO for FG to coalesce with FF. FG desperate to keep power and Martin et al desperate to get in power and wreak havoc.

Mr.Micro

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Indeed the lure of power often creates strange bedfellows. It would be totally unacceptable IMO for FG to coalesce with FF. FG desperate to keep power and Martin et al desperate to get in power and wreak havoc.

I would love to see them in coalition and joined together. Then we might get a new party started.

Some people vote like they always did because of 1921. If FG/FF combined those voters might have to engage their brains and actually start looking at policies.

sean200

whitebriar wrote: »

The reason is simple.
Half the core FF vote walked reluctantly to either Sf or Fg/Lab in disgust at the troika having to come in.

Now they believe (most of the walkers anyway) that Trichet forced Cowen and Lenihan into it.
So its back home to modern day civil war politics again for that diehard group.

I blame the public sector as they are swinging again

Sierra Oscar

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Indeed the lure of power often creates strange bedfellows. It would be totally unacceptable IMO for FG to coalesce with FF. FG desperate to keep power and Martin et al desperate to get in power and wreak havoc.

I dont think there are many in FF who want to go into government with FG, including Martin. Considering the parliamentary party will have to receive an endorsement from the membership via a specially organised conference to go into a coalition government (a new arrangement within the party), I don't see it as a realistic outcome at the moment. I guess it is too far off to tell anyways as I cant see the government falling any time soon.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I dont think there are many in FF who want to go into government with FG, including Martin. Considering the parliamentary party will have to receive an endorsement from the membership via a specially organised conference to go into a coalition government (a new arrangement within the party), I don't see it as a realistic outcome at the moment. I guess it is too far off to tell anyways as I cant see the government falling any time soon.

I agree , a recent poll showed that a SF/FF coalition was more popular than a FF/FG one amongst the electorate . A grotesque monster of a union it would be , but that's polls for you.

COYW

Deleted User wrote: »

I would love to see them in coalition and joined together. Then we might get a new party started.

Some people vote like they always did because of 1921. If FG/FF combined those voters might have to engage their brains and actually start looking at policies.

Results like this shows how badly we need new well organised political parties in this country. If a FF/FG coalition led to the birth of such parties, I would be willing to take the pain for a few years. Short term pain, long term gain.....

Personally, I would like to see a party which is socially to the centre and economically to the right. I consider FG to be right of centre, economically. I think that a well drilled left wing party would be good for balance; something like the ULA with manners and a bit of cop-on economic policy wise.

[Jackass]

These poll results remind me why I don't feel bad for people.

I just wish FG / LAB would be more ruthless, no matter what they do, the electorate will got back to FF, so might as well not stop short of doing what needs to be done in the hopes of protecting themselves politically.

Fire half of the civil service, reduce the dole to 90 euro a week, release half the staff who aren't needed from the Government controlled financial institutions, privatise transport and energy and then books will be balanced.

And good luck to all of those unemployed and bitching and moaning about their handouts being cut. They deserve it, as the majority, who vote to destroy the country for the rest of us.

If you're going to put the crooks and corrupt failures in for a decade after a couple of years out of power for the clean up squad to come in, they might as well clean it up properly and put massive legislation and regulation in place to make the country a complete nanny state so it can't be ruined whilst the cleaners are out of power - and all the hardship it causes the people, well it's your own fault, gluttens for punishment so lets bring out all the punishment now to try and make the country incompetance proof for a few decades.

kippy

[Quote=[Jackass];83141732]These poll results remind me why I don't feel bad for people.

I just wish FG / LAB would be more ruthless, no matter what they do, the electorate will got back to FF, so might as well not stop short of doing what needs to be done in the hopes of protecting themselves politically.

Fire half of the civil service, reduce the dole to 90 euro a week, release half the staff who aren't needed from the Government controlled financial institutions, privatise transport and energy and then books will be balanced.

And good luck to all of those unemployed and bitching and moaning about their handouts being cut. They deserve it, as the majority, who vote to destroy the country for the rest of us.

If you're going to put the crooks and corrupt failures in for a decade after a couple of years out of power for the clean up squad to come in, they might as well clean it up properly and put massive legislation and regulation in place to make the country a complete nanny state so it can't be ruined whilst the cleaners are out of power - and all the hardship it causes the people, well it's your own fault, gluttens for punishment so lets bring out all the punishment now to try and make the country incompetance proof for a few decades.[/Quote]
Half the civil service. Just like that

Mr.Micro

kippy wrote: »

Half the civil service. Just like that

and half the County Councils and planning departments......... the breeding grounds for Fianna Failers.

OCorcrainn

COYW wrote: »

Results like this shows how badly we need new well organised political parties in this country. If a FF/FG coalition led to the birth of such parties, I would be willing to take the pain for a few years. Short term pain, long term gain.....

Personally, I would like to see a party which is socially to the centre and economically to the right. I consider FG to be right of centre, economically. I think that a well drilled left wing party would be good for balance; something like the ULA with manners and a bit of cop-on economic policy wise.

Not taking into account the nationalist agenda I would perceive Sinn Féin as being such a party.

Zubeneschamali

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Not taking into account the nationalist agenda I would perceive Sinn Féin as being such a party.

Apart from the manners and the economic cop-on.

michael999999

gaffer91 wrote: »

Link to IT

Interesting stuff. Not sure if FG deserved such a decline and I'm sure they'll get a certain degree of bounce from what were IMO, relatively successful results from the recent debt negotiations. Good to see SF and Gerry Adams go down.

So will we have another poll today, after last nights Irish Nationwise revelations that a senior Fianna Fail member offered a secret deal to Fingleton?

Corrupt to the core Fianna Fail are and yet people still vote for them!

Sierra Oscar

Apparently there is another RedC poll this weekend, the results of which will be more interesting considering it will be post the promissory note agreement. Would be very surprised if there is no bounce in support for the government.

michael999999

Have fianna fail released the name of there politician that offered fingleton the secret deal?

Where's the transparancy they promised?

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Apparently there is another RedC poll this weekend, the results of which will be more interesting considering it will be post the promissory note agreement. Would be very surprised if there is no bounce in support for the government.

So Sierra - do you reckon these results are good for Fianna Fail or good for Ireland.

I see Fianna Fail as a terrible blight on our country to be honest, unless you are one of the few benefitting from the irregularities.

I am not a party hack from FG / Lab / SF / Ind etc . I have never been - I have just seen the damage that FF have cause to our country .

Continually disgusted ....

Leftist

jesus christ. If FF get back in it is a stamp of confirmation thatall those old derogatory jokes were right, we are a nation of morons.

Silentcorner

Despite this set back (for all of us who are disgusted as to what has happened to this country over the last number of years) I wonder how will FF attract transfers, considering how toxic FF are now considered, what impact would this have, if any on any potential seat gains.

The fact that I simply cannot see how young people would join this organisation (they certainly weren't joining during my time there) what impact, if any, will the age profile of canvassers have on floating voters?

Previously the FF machine was a monster, always had an army of canvassers, what state is this machine in now?

Maybe I'm grasping at straws here, but the significance of this poll maybe overstated....

MrScootch

There's no-one I can vote for.

If FF get back in I'm leaving. FG seem to be finishing the job of ruining the country that FF started, with enthusiasm. I'm not about to vote SF. Labour put me to sleep. The Greens made themselves a joke.

The only thing I can do is vote for a local independent without the power to effect change.

No political party reflects my views.

jmayo

hfallada wrote: »

Fine Gael and labour made promises they couldn't keep during the election and got people hopes to high. A lot of people I believe thought the economy would be booming within a year or two.

Even through both of them couldn't do much do to the bailout conditions. Although people call FF scumbags a majority were highly educated such as lawyers. I believe a lawyer could negotiate a bailout deal than a teacher. I think FG and labour is full of teachers who I believe shouldn't a business never mind a country.

Who again were all these higly educated members of the ff government ?
Was it cowen who couldn't be bothered showing up for meetings sober and made us a laughing stock worldwide ?
Was it dermot ahern or michael woods, whose policies were dictated by the vatican ?
Maybe it was wee willie winkie whose lax interpredation of the law allowed him to lie to the second highest court in the land ?

I am paying for the great way that these so called highly educated ffers negotiated.
After all they did such a good job with the initial bailout, the public sector unions when discussing benchmarking, Croke Park Agreement, or the formation of the HSE and how they negogiated with the catholic church and the religious orders so that the taxpayers would pay for their child molestation members.

Fecking hell if they were any worse at negotiations I and my family might be stuck with even worse bills. :rolleyes:

Maybe the current shower are full of teachers, but show me a lawyer you would trust ?
Nevermind the fact they were at the top of one of the most corrupt unethical bunch of slimeballs in Western Europe.

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

You mean Fionann Sheehan, the former member of YFG member who held a national position within the organisation and whose family are prominent FG'ers in Thurles?

Anyone who thinks Fionann is a mouthpiece for FF is very misinformed of reality.

Ehh isn't he married to avril power, former glowing light of ogra ff and ff in TCD, former 90 grand a year recipient of taxpayer fund when political advisor to mary hannafin and now ff senator ?

I bet if good old fionann likes a bit of hows your father, like most men, he does as wifey askes.

raymon wrote: »

So Sierra - do you reckon these results are good for Fianna Fail or good for Ireland.

Ah for fecks sake raymon.
Don't you know it is ff first and the country comes a poor second.

michael999999

You say lawyers I say liars!

micho

Has anyone noticed lately, every time there is a sound bite to be had FF will appear on the plinth of Leinster House, usually one of their nineteen TD's flanked by a couple of their unelected senators. They are already engaged in electioneering and pr. One of the most prominant of the aforementioned senators is Thomas Byrne from Meath who talks about 'his constituecy' when he hasn't been elected by the people of Meath, but still claims to represent them.

michael999999

micho wrote: »

Has anyone noticed lately, every time there is a sound bite to be had FF will appear on the plinth of Leinster House, usually one of their nineteen TD's flanked by a couple of their unelected senators. They are already engaged in electioneering and pr. One of the most prominant of the aforementioned senators is Thomas Byrne from Meath who talks about 'his constituecy' when he hasn't been elected by the people of Meath, but still claims to represent them.

Would that be the same thomas byrne that tried to say on the Pat Kenny show yesterday that FF didn't introduce the property tax?

Had he's arse handed to him on a plate when it was pointed out they did, even after 15 mins of him trying to convince everyone otherwise!

FF just cannot be believed!

Sponge Bob

Not only is he wrong but I think that detail of the troika negotiations was concluded AFTER the Greens had walked from government in December 2010.

Therefore FF Alone Introduced the Property Tax as part of their overall surrender of sovereignty.

Coillte_Bhoy

hfallada wrote: »

Fine Gael and labour made promises they couldn't keep during the election and got people hopes to high. A lot of people I believe thought the economy would be booming within a year or two.

What??? i'd love to know what kind of people you know.

Sierra Oscar

Very surprised by the latest opinion poll out today, no significant bounce in support for the government following the promissory note deal.

Second opinion poll in fortnight has Fianna Fáil as top party

FF - 27%
FG - 25%
SF - 20%
IND - 16%
LAB - 13%

EDIT: And I think an article in today's Irish Times really sums up some of the key reasons as to why FF is experiencing a rise in support.

Fianna Fáil makes headway in shaking off image as a toxic political brand

Havermeyer

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Very surprised by the latest opinion poll out today, no significant bounce in support for the government following the promissory note deal.

Second opinion poll in fortnight has Fianna Fáil as top party

FF - 27%
FG - 25%
SF - 20%
IND - 16%
LAB - 13%

EDIT: And I think an article in the Irish Times today really sums up some of the key reasons as to why FF is experiencing a rise in support.

Fianna Fáil makes headway in shaking off image as a toxic political brand

I'm getting out of this country, and I'm never coming back.