Fianna Fáil most popular party, new poll shows

Mr.Micro

Rightwing wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ahern-a-genuine-socialist-says-mccreevy-228947.html
Taoiseach Bertie Ahern is one of the few genuine socialists in the country, his former finance minister claimed today.

European Commissioner Charlie McCreevy said he believed the Taoiseach’s controversial assertion of his political beliefs.

“Well Bertie pronouncing himself as a socialist wasn’t a surprise to me because funny enough, I believe Bertie Ahern is one of the few socialists in Dáil Eireann, and would have said that many many years ago,” he said.

There was genuine amazement in political circles when Mr Ahern made the pronouncement in a newspaper interview last year. It was widely seen as an attempt to reposition Fianna Fáil as a party for working class people in the face of Sinn Féin’s growing popularity.

I had a good chuckle at the thought of Bertie Ahern being a socialist. Its him trying to realign himself by an attempt at reinvention, he was quite good at inventing things, especially stories when it came to the Mahon tribunal. Martin had better watch his back then as Bertie may be after the leadership of the new FF party with a twist of socialism, lol. FF are not left wing, and Ahern should look up what Socialism means as he may be confused.

Worztron

Lets not forget the unworthy Bertie and his apparent "horse racing betting-winnings". :rolleyes:

Rightwing

Worztron wrote: »

Lets not forget the unworthy Bertie and his apparent "horse racing betting-winnings". :rolleyes:

And the gullible Irish bought into it. I remember watching an interview he did with brian dobson and tears flowed,,,,,i knew then the election was sealed.

Going Forward

gandalf wrote: »

Then they ended up in Government together. Coalitions force compromise and unfortunately in this case it has delayed dealing with the issues at hand which is the cost of running this country. I voted for FG to get them in and sort out the PS costs. Because Labour went in with them they could not be as decisive as they needed to be.

The taxes that they are implementing are there because 14 years of FF led governments squandered whatever wealth we had made and a certain Mr Michael Martin was right beside Bertie Aherns side agreeing with all the decisions that lead the country over the cliff face and put us at the mercy of the IMF and ECB. It was a FF Minister from a FF led Government that signed the document that tied us to the bank debt in the first place. At least this current crowd have eased the burden by pushing the debt out into the future.

If FF make any headways in the next elections I will be disgusted at the people in this country. It shows that they are naive and immature in the way we exercise our right to vote. Then again it does explain how the Healy-Raes keep getting voted in.

I dont recall FG calling for higher taxes during the "boom" either?
They did propose 300Euro a week for the old age pension though!

So, basically, anything goes in pre election promises and we the electorate are somehow the ones to blame for swallowing the lies?

Whats the choice then, dont believe any politician's utterings?

If the electorate feels that it has been misled, it will naturally withdraw support and another party will benefit, and the electorate, distrusting of SF will lean back towards FF, believing that had FG been in power for that same period, things would probably have turned out much the same.

As has been mentioned here already, one could close ones eyes and quite easily imagine that we are being governed by an admittedly more chastened Fianna Fail, as FG are quite enthusiastically implementing what FF signed up for with the Troika.

FF will lap up the inevitable discontent which will be caused by the upcoming property tax and water charges implementation by explaining that there was in fact another way to raise this money and that the Troika had always made that clear to them at least etc etc.

And the electorate will start to believe them and ask why did they ever vote for FG and Labour.

The future choices look bleak.

Zubeneschamali

Going Forward wrote: »

I dont recall FG calling for higher taxes during the "boom" either?

Not higher taxes so much as sustainable taxes, and stashing money from the surplus instead of squandering it. Go read the 2002 manifesto,

Of course, they got massacred in that election, so in 2007 they went for a softer line. You'll still see a lot of references to value, reining in public spending etc.

Now check the official speeches in opposition to the FF budgets. Bruton & co. frequently pointed out the mad bubblicious construction/developer economics of FF.

Obviously, looking at other European countries, it's clear that we would be in the poo today even if FG had been in power:FF didn't wreck Spain or Portugal. But we would not have had such an enormous party, and we would not now have such a bad hangover.

Worztron

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

...But we would not have had such an enormous party, and we would not now have such a bad hangover.

The most infuriating thing – those that did not party have also been billed for it. Total lunacy! :mad:

Rightwing

Going Forward wrote: »

I dont recall FG calling for higher taxes during the "boom" either?
They did propose 300Euro a week for the old age pension though!

So, basically, anything goes in pre election promises and we the electorate are somehow the ones to blame for swallowing the lies?

Whats the choice then, dont believe any politician's utterings?

If the electorate feels that it has been misled, it will naturally withdraw support and another party will benefit, and the electorate, distrusting of SF will lean back towards FF, believing that had FG been in power for that same period, things would probably have turned out much the same.

As has been mentioned here already, one could close ones eyes and quite easily imagine that we are being governed by an admittedly more chastened Fianna Fail, as FG are quite enthusiastically implementing what FF signed up for with the Troika.

FF will lap up the inevitable discontent which will be caused by the upcoming property tax and water charges implementation by explaining that there was in fact another way to raise this money and that the Troika had always made that clear to them at least etc etc.

And the electorate will start to believe them and ask why did they ever vote for FG and Labour.

The future choices look bleak.

Looking at the italian elections, and the success of the stand-up comedian, I've no doubt there is a pent up demand for a new party in this country, maybe 15%.

Zubeneschamali

Rightwing wrote: »

Looking at the italian elections, and the success of the stand-up comedian, I've no doubt there is a pent up demand for a new party in this country, maybe 15%.

Yes, 15% of people will vote for anything new: SF, the Greens, The PDs, etc. etc. Unfortunately for them, they keep getting politicians instead of anything new.

Rightwing

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, 15% of people will vote for anything new: SF, the Greens, The PDs, etc. etc. Unfortunately for them, they keep getting politicians instead of anything new.

At this stage I don't think you can get anything new. The western world has played it's cards. Spending money they can't afford, payback time is arriving.

Worztron

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, 15% of people will vote for anything new: SF, the Greens, The PDs, etc. etc. Unfortunately for them, they keep getting politicians instead of anything new.

Buckminster Fuller quote: "Politicians are always realistically maneuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers."

goose2005

Worztron wrote: »

Buckminster Fuller quote: "Politicians are always realistically maneuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers."

Although Fuller never solved many problems himself either, mostly just big ideas that never went anywhere.

Dob74

COYW wrote: »

I think you are doing them a disservice. They understand that society would change but they do not believe that hard left politics, which is the only alternative available to people, is better than the brand of politics that is currently in place. I do not agree with the current brand of politics, as someone who is to the right economically but I would take it any day over left-wing idealism.



By asking a few thousands people.



This drives me mental. FG are not right wing. They are centre right at most. FF were never right wing. They threw obscene amounts of money into the public purses. That is not right wing!

G W Bush also increased social spending so does that make him a socialist? Or just a right wing politician buying votes from elderly voters in exchange for better medicare.
For every euro spent on social programs more money is spent on targeted tax breaks and large public contracts.

At the moment taxes are disappearing into a blackhole and there is no account ability. We have a strong central government which acts in a secretive way. Not exactly a dictatorship but not to far away.

Worztron

goose2005 wrote: »

Although Fuller never solved many problems himself either, mostly just big ideas that never went anywhere.

Buckminster Fuller was way ahead of him time. Industry would not want to finance something that lasted too long -- that would fly in the face of the "infinite growth consumption economy" that is wrecking the planet. Lookup "Planned obsolescence".

I think his quote applies particularly to the likes of FF + FG.

Worztron

It is beyond belief that people are willing to vote back in such a poisonous institute as Fianna FAIL. Their name is muck. Their leader masquerades as a choir boy - he acts as one who did no wrong nor knew of no wrong doings in all those years as a minister.

michael999999

Des Richardson who is a fundraiser for Fianna Fail and best friend of Fianna Fail hero Bertie ahern, has been named on the latest Revenue list of defaulters!

Is being dodgy a pre requisite of being a member of Fianna Fail?

Worztron

michael999999 wrote: »

...Is being dodgy a pre requisite of being a member of Fianna Fail?

I reckon thats the main requirement.

Why does a tax dodger like Des Richardson get a slap on the wrist and a fine when someone like the garlic tax evader man gets jail?

michael999999

Worztron wrote: »

I reckon thats the main requirement.

Why does a tax dodger like Des Richardson get a slap on the wrist and a fine when someone like the garlic tax evader man gets jail?

When your a member of Fianna Fails inner circle, you'll never have to worry about jail

Worztron

For all those lamentable people thinking of voting for FF again -- never forget that they have caused multi-generation debt to be dumped onto the shoulders of the largely innocent Irish people. Nevermind this "new politics" rhetoric that Martin and his cronies spout. :mad:

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php :eek:

ArmaniJeanss

Their first preference going up a few points since the last GE is annoying, but its not a disaster - most seats aren't won on first prefs but transfers.

What it does need for those who want to minimize the gains they make in the next election is two things
a) don't transfer to them (this is obviously the easy bit).
b) transfer to everyone else (the difficult unpalatable bit).

So in some combination you may feel let down by FG, that Labour are traitors, that SF are gunmen, that SPULA/WUAG/PBP are economic fools, that the Greens are hippies who bear their share of responsibility for the last government. And you may have decided never to vote for one or all of these parties.

However to keep FF out you must vote all the way down the list for everyone else. Merely voting for the one or two you like and then stopping is what opens the way for FF'ers to sneak in in 4th or 5th place in constituencies.
Stopping FF is not merely a case of not voting for them, it needs actively voting for everyone else.

(I know this is 3 years too early , but laying down a marker.)

Sierra Oscar

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Their first preference going up a few points since the last GE is annoying, but its not a disaster - most seats aren't won on first prefs but transfers.

Indeed, the transfer pattern will be interesting to analyse. The Dublin West by-election in 2011 had indicated that the transfer situation had begun to improve somewhat for FF a mere few months after the General Election, but it was the transfers (or lack-thereof) which still held back the FF candidate.

I think the transfer pattern will be the real story of the Meath East by-election once the count is underway, because I think it will highlight that FF are starting to gain transfers once again. Certainly the reception at the doorsteps would seem to indicate that.

Readyhed

Because we live in a backward banana republic that requires immigrants
to vote so nobody cares that FF destroyed our economy.

michael999999

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Indeed, the transfer pattern will be interesting to analyse. The Dublin West by-election in 2011 had indicated that the transfer situation had begun to improve somewhat for FF a mere few months after the General Election, but it was the transfers (or lack-thereof) which still held back the FF candidate.

I think the transfer pattern will be the real story of the Meath East by-election once the count is underway, because I think it will highlight that FF are starting to gain transfers once again. Certainly the reception at the doorsteps would seem to indicate that.

Oh really, well no one from fianna fail have called to my House in over 3 years.

But don't worry when they do call, I'll have no problem reminding them that they are a shower of crooks who raped this country for years.

I won't forget!

Sierra Oscar

michael999999 wrote: »

Oh really, well no one from fianna fail have called to my House in over 3 years.

But don't worry when they do call, I'll have no problem reminding them that they are a shower of crooks who raped this country for years.

I won't forget!

Knocked on a couple of hundred doors over the weekend in Meath East. Reception was generally positive, no comparison to the General Election. People are still angry, but they feel betrayed by this government.

Zubeneschamali

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

People are still angry, but they feel betrayed by this government.

Breaking news: Electorate not very bright.

michael999999

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Knocked on a couple of hundred doors over the weekend in Meath East. Reception was generally positive, no comparison to the General Election. People are still angry, but they feel betrayed by this government.

Betrayed by this government is it, you couldn't make it up!

I'm just waiting for the first fianna fail gangster to call to my door, by f##k he won't come back the second time!

If I have to follow around there canvassers with a big placard saying remember what bertie and he's party of crooks done to this country I will!

Mr.Micro

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Knocked on a couple of hundred doors over the weekend in Meath East. Reception was generally positive, no comparison to the General Election. People are still angry, but they feel betrayed by this government.

Please elaborate as to the reasons or what people said, on why they feel betrayed.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Knocked on a couple of hundred doors over the weekend in Meath East. Reception was generally positive, no comparison to the General Election. People are still angry, but they feel betrayed by this government.

I consider Fianna Fail traitors ( and not just the top brass).

I am still angry at the treachery of FF.

I noticed that Michael Martin is now trying to get the public to forget the past by attacking the government in interviews, for things like the economy , magdalene laundries , health service , unemployment .

It is dishonest and cynical. He was one of the chief architects of the treason

Willie o Dea was chased from a recent disability rally when he tried to protest WITH the protesters but was discovered.

Not all the people are stupid, not all the people have forgotten.

Mr.Micro

raymon wrote: »

I consider Fianna Fail traitors ( and not just the top brass).

I am still angry at the treachery of FF.

I noticed that Michael Martin is now trying to get the public to forget the past by attacking the government in interviews, for things like the economy , magdalene laundries , health service , unemployment .

It is dishonest and cynical. He was one of the chief architects of the treason

Willie o Dea was chased from a recent disability rally when he tried to protest WITH the protesters but was discovered.

Not all the people are stupid, not all the people have forgotten.

Yes indeed Raymon, but there are a lot of sheep in Ireland alas.

A bit rich FF going on about unemployment, and the rest, also the Launderies existed through all FF times in Government since the foundation of the State. Martin perhaps needs a refresher course in Irish History.

michael999999

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Yes indeed Raymon, but there are a lot of sheep in Ireland alas.

A bit rich FF going on about unemployment, and the rest, also the Launderies existed through all FF times in Government since the foundation of the State. Martin perhaps needs a refresher course in Irish History.

Michael martin would love the country to get the same amnesia as he's Best friend and fianna fail hero bertie ahern!

P_1

I don't know what it is with this country but to me it seems a lot of people are incapable of independent thought. I mean look at FF attacking the current government over problems that were created when FF were in power themselves and the general public lapping it up.

The mind boggles

michael999999

Ha ha thomas byrne who is berties apprentice has just had he's ass handed to him on Vincent Browne!

About time all them bloody fianna faillers were put in there place in public!