Aer Lingus Fleet Discusion

orionm_73

zone 1 wrote: »

why is it only now that Airbus are putting sharklets on there planes is it a design thing ? . fuel ? whats on all Airbus wingtips at the moment called and what function have they? i think it started with the A300..

They are call wing-tip fences and afaik have a similar function in that they reduce the vortices off the wingtips

calibratedtool

Suasdaguna1 wrote: »

Not before a couple of 757s

Tenger

zone 1 wrote: »

why is it only now that Airbus are putting sharklets on there planes is it a design thing ? . fuel ? whats on all Airbus wingtips at the moment called and what function have they? i think it started with the A300..

The installation of sharklets is a move to increase the efficiency of the A320 family. Previously Airbus had not felt the need to do the research into them in order to guarantee orders. Its an incremental improvement, in addition it develops the option before the A320NEO is in service. It reduces fuel burn by 2-3% over longer sectors.

JetStar Japan took delivery of the first newbuild A320 with sharklets. JetBlue are installing the first retrofitted sharklets as we type this. And Lufthansa will be the first European airline to take delivery of the option.

The EI CEO has expressed interest in the A321NEO several times over the last year. Obviously no orders yet but it would make a lot of sense to operate Ireland-East Coast. EI have the geographical location to utilise the A321NEO across the pond as it doesn't have the same range as the B752.

keroseneboy

Aviation Partners(AP) were the early leaders in fitting winglets similar to the "Sharklet" design on the A320. They got very upset with Airbus when they felt that there was a patent infringement and took Airbus to court. Anyone know the outcome of that action ?

Best username ever

calibratedtool wrote: »

Not before a couple of 757s

That won't happen.

Stimpyone

Best username ever wrote: »

That won't happen.

Why not?. I've heard something simular too. On lease.

calibratedtool

Best username ever wrote: »

That won't happen.

I wasn't speculating, they're on the way in October.

boeingboy

SCUSSSHHHHHHHHH

Got bit more paperwork to complete first

Preset No.3

A quick look on flight aware will show where 'papa echo' has been!

Date Aircraft Origin Destination Departed Arrival Duration
21-Feb-2013 Unknown Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) Munich Int'l (EDDM / MUC) 16:15 GMT 19:27 CET On The Way!
18-Feb-2013 Unknown Lisbon / Lisboa,Portela (Lisbon) (LPPT / LIS) Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) 13:17 WET 15:18
18-Feb-2013 Unknown Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) Lisbon / Lisboa,Portela (Lisbon) (LPPT / LIS) 09:54 GMT 12:14
17-Feb-2013 Unknown Brussels (EBBR / BRU) Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) 21:54 CET 22:01 GMT 1:07
17-Feb-2013 Unknown Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) Brussels (EBBR / BRU) 18:08 GMT 20:31 CET 1:23
16-Feb-2013 Unknown Geneva Cointrin Int'l (LSGG / GVA) Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) 16:40 CET 17:36 GMT (?)
16-Feb-2013 Unknown Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) Geneva Cointrin Int'l (LSGG / GVA) 12:30 GMT 15:30 CET 2:00
14-Feb-2013 Unknown Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) London Heathrow (EGLL / LHR) 16:36 GMT 17:28 GMT 0:52
11-Feb-2013 Unknown Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) London Heathrow (EGLL / LHR) 12:31 GMT 13:21 GMT (?)
11-Feb-2013 Unknown London Heathrow (EGLL / LHR) Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) 09:30 GMT 10:30 GMT (?)
07-Feb-2013 Unknown Dublin Int'l (EIDW / DUB) London Heathrow (EGLL / LHR) 17:23 GMT 18:09 GMT

Locker10a

calibratedtool wrote: »

I wasn't speculating, they're on the way in October.

Now dont raise our hopes unless you are for real! Do you mean that? EI are leasing the 757? Where will they get them?
Will it be similar to when they had the md-11 ? Wet-lease pilots and use there own cabin crew and paint the planes in EI colours?

Best username ever

calibratedtool wrote: »

I wasn't speculating, they're on the way in October.

Yiz are joking??? EI are getting 757's

donvito99

Lads we're over a month away from April 1st.

Best username ever

donvito99 wrote: »

Lads we're over a month away from April 1st.

EI crew then? How long is the lease for?

Locker10a

Best username ever wrote: »

EI crew then? How long is the lease for?

Ehh I wouldn't believe it untill I see it !

Zonda999

http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38485

Where exactly have these rumours come from? I would be amazed if this is true tbh..

Locker10a

ere have these rumours come from? I would be amazed if this is true tbh..

Ya so would I tbh!

donvito99

About as likely as a Ryanair takeover!

calibratedtool

Locker10a wrote: »

Now dont raise our hopes unless you are for real! Do you mean that? EI are leasing the 757? Where will they get them?
Will it be similar to when they had the md-11 ? Wet-lease pilots and use there own cabin crew and paint the planes in EI colours?

ACMI from an Irish company. The C is just flight crew.

A friend works for the company and said it should be in the media soon.

Zonda999

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/459473-aer-lingus-6-a-65.html

Here as well, but I suspect thats yourself

It would be nice to see I suppose, but I was under the impression passenger 757's are actually in fairly high demand at the moment, exactly for these kind of long haul but relatively low yield flights in recessionary times.. I 'll believe it when I see it tbh. I would sooner think that Ei would base that one free A330-200 (that we know they are leasing out for the winter months this year to yet to be named Scandinavian tour operator) at SNN for the JFK and BOS routes..

Zonda999

calibratedtool wrote: »

ACMI from an Irish company. The C is just flight crew.

A friend works for the company and said it should be in the media soon.

No doubt Timmy Dooley will claiming credit for this...

donvito99

Well that escalated quickly!

Surely it must go to SNN?

Locker10a

calibratedtool wrote: »

ACMI from an Irish company. The C is just flight crew.

A friend works for the company and said it should be in the media soon.

Sorry what does that mean, the c is just the flight crew? ? :S Does it mean flight crew only lease?
When you say your friend works for the company do you mean EI or the leasing company? Oh how soon will it be released? I'm getting excited now!

calibratedtool

Locker10a wrote: »

Sorry what does that mean, the c is just the flight crew? ? :S Does it mean flight crew only lease?
When you say your friend works for the company do you mean EI or the leasing company? Oh how soon will it be released? I'm getting excited now!

Cabin crew will be EI,he works for the other company.
DUB/SNN based to eastern North America.

kub

calibratedtool wrote: »

Cabin crew will be EI,he works for the other company.
DUB/SNN based to eastern North America.

As we are all in an imaginery world just now, as Shannon is now no longer DAA. DAA are still losing quite a bit of business with Cork pax using SNN for trans atlantic, therefore is there any hope that a 757 might operate out of Cork to T/A?

donvito99

kub wrote: »

As we are all in an imaginery world just now, as Shannon is now no longer DAA. DAA are still losing quite a bit of business with Cork pax using SNN for trans atlantic, therefore is there any hope that a 757 might operate out of Cork to T/A?

Aer Lingus does not = DAA?!

The 757 would logically beef up what is left of a winter schedule from SNN?


And a '57 would look right sexy in EI colours.

b757

donvito99 wrote: »

Aer Lingus does not = DAA?!

The 757 would logically beef up what is left of a winter schedule from SNN?


And a '57 would look right sexy in EI colours.

I presume so, would probably allow for year round ops at SNN.. And it sure does!



--

Can't wait to see one!

donvito99

b757 wrote: »

I presume so, would probably allow for year round ops at SNN.. And it sure does!



--

Can't wait to see one!

Very appropriate username!

Dr.Rieux

b757 wrote: »

I presume so, would probably allow for year round ops at SNN.. And it sure does!



--

Can't wait to see one!

I can't help but think one would look amazing in the colours of the retro A320

donvito99

Dr.Rieux wrote: »

I can't help but think one would look amazing in the colours of the retro A320

Ha one step at a time!

I can't help but feel that this is too far out of step for the notoriously cautious for the German CEO. But it will be good to see NA expansion before the arrival of the 350, and hopefully 321neo.

kub

donvito99 wrote: »

Aer Lingus does not = DAA?!

The 757 would logically beef up what is left of a winter schedule from SNN?

You are correct re EI = DAA, but DAA are now competing with SNN and a lot of CRK pax go T/A via SNN. I am sure they would love a T/A operator out of CRK. What better machine than a 757?

I agree however with the winter schedule ex SNN.

donvito99

Reported elsewhere that up to 3 may be leased. EI cabin crew, as mentioned earlier.

Locker10a

donvito99 wrote: »

Ha one step at a time!

I can't help but feel that this is too far out of step for the notoriously cautious for the German CEO.

Yup i feel the same way! And wont it cost alot in terms of training crew and engineers and maintenance staff ? EI engineers haven't worked on boeing in years! Not to mention the cabins that will most likely need upgrading

basill

I think the theory is that the 757s are a filler until the A321NEOs become available. When that happens who knows. It will free up the A330 to fly further afield and will mean a year round service could be offered in SNN. I suspect it might also go to Canada from Dublin and if that route is successful then bigger hardware can be put onto it.

Lots of discussion going on between all parties to work out if we can fly them or if it is wet leased out. It was formally announced yesterday on the internal website but the rumour has been around for a while.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Dacian

basill wrote: »

I think the theory is that the 757s are a filler until the A321NEOs become available.......It will free up the A330 to fly further afield and will mean a year round service could be offered in SNN. I suspect it might also go to Canada from Dublin and if that route is successful then bigger hardware can be put onto it.

Someone above mentioned the cautious EI CEO. However the same CEO has indicated on a number of occasions that the A321NEO would be attractive to EI. This is not avail for another few years so the B757 offers a great short term option. The business case for the A321NEO exists now and a 2-3 year lease of B757 would plug that gap until EI can get their hands on some NEO's.

2 B757's in SNN would allow daily flights to BOS and JFK rather than the current alternate days with the A330. This would then free up an A330. Another B757 could rotate between the 2nd daily flights from DUB to BOS/JFK (or even offer a 3rd JFK flight!) So the leasing of 3 B757's has the potential to free up 2 A330 from the current EI fleet, this could allow them to open a new route to Toronto or perhaps further. I also see the attraction of opening a route with a daily narrow body then upgauging to an A330 if successful.
While this may seem like a bad thing for SNN, daily flights are better for customers, and 7 daily flights on a B757 will offer more weekly seats than 3/4 A330 flights, assuming 160 seats in a B757.

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That is true however EI has pretty much the best location for operating an A321NEO to BOS and/or JFK. Some US airlines operate B757;s to CDG and AMS, the A321NEO could not operate these longer B757 routes.

The A321NEO will be able to replace the B757's on 90% of those long thin routes. Its probably not worth it for Airbus to extend its range for the extra 10% when they is no other competitor.

Zonda999

Well the ballpark figure for the A321NEO's range is 3,650 nm. The distance from DUB to JFK is 2,750 nm. Obviously when you take into account weather conditions over the north Atlantic, in real terms this is longer but surely not to the extent that a plane with a basic range of 3,650nm could not make that leg? A B752 with winglets has a basic range of 4,100 nm

Tenger

FlightGlobal posted an interview with the EI CCO in Feb 2012:

http://archive.is/nX1F

Aer Lingus chief commercial officer Stephen Kavanagh said the carrier is looking at the Neo and Max families and "part of that evaluation will be whether the A321neo or the 737-9 Max would have transatlantic capability".
If the aircraft do offer sufficient range, Aer Lingus could order "up to five" re-engined narrowbodies to "complement" its widebody flights from Belfast, Cork and Shannon to Boston, Chicago and New York by offering additional frequencies, said Kavanagh.
"The geographical location of Ireland on the edge of Europe is advantageous and it should be in range. We're very interested in exploring this option to complement our widebody operations."

A321NEO is not available until 2016, (ILFC is the 'launch customer') so EI obviously want to look at what can act as a stand in for it............

MuffinsDa

Zonda999 wrote: »

Well the ballpark figure for the A321NEO's range is 3,650 nm. The distance from DUB to JFK is 2,750 nm. Obviously when you take into account weather conditions over the north Atlantic, in real terms this is longer but surely not to the extent that a plane with a basic range of 3,650nm could not make that leg? A B752 with winglets has a basic range of 4,100 nm

I always wondered why it is not possible for AL to use A319 for this purpose too. It has a nominal max range of 3600nm. Anyone can shed light on why it can't be used for thin transatlantic routes like above?

Zonda999

I;m not sure of the technical reasons but at a guess, here are some. It might be possible from Ireland but not the UK, and even if it were, who(And I mean the airlines themselves here) would be using a A319 from somwhere like LGW when you can do the same journey in a nearly full B744/B777/A330 etc.. As to an Irish point of view, if its possible from here, there would be very little space for cargo, transatlantic flights usually have a business class and if you want to fit business and economy classes in an A319, you're not gonna have space for too many economy seat at all. As well, even in that configuration, you're competing with planes like the B752 which is massive compared to the A319, never mind the A333's EI use. The economics of the whole thing would'nt be great IMO..

Actually, A319's do go across the Atlantic, Air Canada operate an A319 from LHR to St Johns, Newfoundland. Dunno, if its seasonal only but they definitely still operated it last summer..

Tenger

MuffinsDa wrote: »

I always wondered why it is not possible for AL to use A319 for this purpose too. It has a nominal max range of 3600nm. Anyone can shed light on why it can't be used for thin transatlantic routes like above?

Its a numbers game. A319 cannot hold enough pax to offset the cost of such medium haul routes. And the NEO ugrade will offer 10-15% better fuel burn over the current A320 family. (Composite materials, new engines, sharklets)

Nobody thought the B757 could operate long thin T/A routes until the cost of fuel made B767 too expensive, and the winglets on the B757 made them more cost effective.
The B757 line closed in Oct 2004, after the post 9/11 downturn. Only 5 were ordered in 2003. In May 2005 the FAA gave permission to retrofit winglets to the B757, giving 5% better fuel burn and 200 nm more range.

So the B757 T/A usage is really only 6-7 years old. Funny how this market developed after the product ended production.

A320

Locker10a wrote: »

Yup i feel the same way! And wont it cost alot in terms of training crew and engineers and maintenance staff ? EI engineers haven't worked on boeing in years! Not to mention the cabins that will most likely need upgrading

In addition to that There is a big shortage of B757/767 Type rated engineers especially coneheads at the moment

calibratedtool

Locker10a wrote: »

Yup i feel the same way! And wont it cost alot in terms of training crew and engineers and maintenance staff ? EI engineers haven't worked on boeing in years! Not to mention the cabins that will most likely need upgrading

The lease would be ACMI

Locker10a

A320 wrote: »

In addition to that There is a big shortage of B757/767 Type rated engineers especially coneheads at the moment

Yeah thats true but i guess if EI really want to use the 757 as an experiment for buying the A321neo then they may be willing to invest the time,money and effort into operate the 757. Didnt EI have a deal with monarch for engineering and maintenance in the past! Monarch operate the 757 and would have engineers etc. who are 757 type rated , perhaps EI will come to an arrangement with Monarch as they did in the past, just a thought! Where there's a will there's a way Is it possible EI could also use United for these purposes in BOS or JFK ?
But still I will believe it when i hear it officially! But I really hope its true, I'd love to see the 757 in the EI fleet.

Kumsheen

Locker10a wrote: »

Yeah thats true but i guess if EI really want to use the 757 as an experiment for buying the A321neo then they may be willing to invest the time,money and effort into operate the 757. Didnt EI have a deal with monarch for engineering and maintenance in the past! Monarch operate the 757 and would have engineers etc. who are 757 type rated , perhaps EI will come to an arrangement with Monarch as they did in the past, just a thought! Where there's a will there's a way Is it possible EI could also use United for these purposes in BOS or JFK ?
But still I will believe it when i hear it officially! But I really hope its true, I'd love to see the 757 in the EI fleet.

They wouldn't need to do any of this. The airline that EI would lease the aircraft from would remain the "Operator" and would be responsible for maintenance etc. These aircraft would not be on EI's AOC.

Locker10a

Kumsheen wrote: »

They wouldn't need to do any of this. The airline that EI would lease the aircraft from would remain the "Operator" and would be responsible for maintenance etc. These aircraft would not be on EI's AOC.

Ahh i see! Well this changes things, and makes it allot more simple for EI ! So all EI would have to do is train their SNN based cabin crew on 757 SOP's and SEP's and away they go! And their ground operation staff on course!
I do hope if it goes ahead that EI will refit the cabins to their Transatlantic product.

calibratedtool

Locker10a wrote: »

Sorry for sounding ingorant but I've never heard of ACMI what or who are they? The leasing company?

Kumsheen just explained it for you above.

the leasing company would supply a package of Aircraft,Crew,Maint and Insurance with the aircraft remaining on their AOC.

donvito99

Locker10a wrote: »

I do hope if it goes ahead that EI will refit the cabins to their Transatlantic product.

Yes this has got to happen.

Best username ever

So the aircraft registration would still be the operators reg, just like the md-11 was?

Locker10a

calibratedtool wrote: »

Kumsheen just explained it for you above.

the leasing company would supply a package of Aircraft,Crew,Maint and Insurance with the aircraft remaining on their AOC.

Thanks did a quick google and found it after a few mins

Locker10a

Best username ever wrote: »

So the aircraft registration would still be the operators reg, just like the md-11 was?

Yes, from my understand of the ACMI deal the other posters have been mentioning the deal will be the same as with the L1011 and MD-11 only this time involving a 757.