DAFT Q4 2012 Rental Report: 2.2% annual increase in rents

gaius c

Link

Highest rate of rent inflation since mid-2007

The 2.2% annual increase in rents is the highest since mid-2007.

Urban-rural rental market divide persists

Rent inflation in Dublin was 4.9% in Q4 2012, compared to -0.5% in the rest of the country.

Not even sure if this is good news for landlords as I don't think it's sustainable and we could do with some stability right now.

D3PO

gaius c wrote: »

Link


Not even sure if this is good news for landlords as I don't think it's sustainable and we could do with some stability right now.

what has the sustainability of rental increases got to do with stability....

nobody is expecting rental rates in Dublin to continue on that kind of trajectory.

Kosseegan

D3PO wrote: »

what has the sustainability of rental increases got to do with stability....

nobody is expecting rental rates in Dublin to continue on that kind of trajectory.

This is only the start of it.
Pre 63's are closing down. Buy to lets are going into receivership and being sold off as family homes. meanwhile the number of households is growing faster that the rate of new home building. People who predicted rising rents on this forum less than a year ago were abused. No doubt the same will happen this time.

D3PO

Kosseegan wrote: »

This is only the start of it.
Pre 63's are closing down. Buy to lets are going into receivership and being sold off as family homes. meanwhile the number of households is growing faster that the rate of new home building. People who predicted rising rents on this forum less than a year ago were abused. No doubt the same will happen this time.

not really.

Im on this forum every day I dont recall anybody abusing people who predicted rent rises. In a normal working economy rents will rise anyway in line with inflation and house prices.

clearly were not in a normal working economy but anybody knows that if people cannot get finance to buy they have to rent, which pushes up rentla demand which pushes up rental prices.

id find it hard to believe anybody was abused for having this opinion last year its pretty logical.

Kosseegan

D3PO wrote: »

not really.

Im on this forum every day I dont recall anybody abusing people who predicted rent rises. In a normal working economy rents will rise anyway in line with inflation and house prices.

clearly were not in a normal working economy but anybody knows that if people cannot get finance to buy they have to rent, which pushes up rentla demand which pushes up rental prices.

id find it hard to believe anybody was abused for having this opinion last year its pretty logical.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056659116&page=2

Duggys Housemate

2.2% is just about inflation. In any case it continues to depend on net migration.

Kosseegan

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

2.2% is just about inflation. In any case it continues to depend on net migration.

Is there higher inflation in Dublin than in the rest of the country.

Duggys Housemate

Kosseegan wrote: »

Is there higher inflation in Dublin than in the rest of the country.

Yes, probably, but then I never said anything about Dublin. I said 2.2% was about the level of overall inflation.

D3PO

Kosseegan wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056659116&page=2

thanks I did a quick scan. Seems a pretty reasoned argument to be honest, I cant see anybody abused in that thread. A bit of vitriol alirght from some posters who took the opening post out of context as a call to buy which it wasnt.

what it actually shows is that most of the regular posters on here were right regarding rent predictions.

StillWaters

D3PO wrote: »

thanks I did a quick scan. Seems a pretty reasoned argument to be honest, I cant see anybody abused in that thread. A bit of vitriol alirght from some posters who took the opening post out of context as a call to buy which it wasnt.

what it actually shows is that most of the regular posters on here were right regarding rent predictions.

Do I win a prize?

StillWaters wrote: »

I agree, but I think 'rocket' is an overstatement, I can't see rents rising more that 5-6% in the major urban centres, and holding firm elsewhere.

riclad

Rents will go higher for single flats, under new rules bedsits will disappear,many landlords will just rent out the house as a unit.Putting in a new bathroom for each flats is too expensive.
IT will get harder in dublin for single people on low incomes or rent allowance to get a small flat.Rents are rising in dublin ,because theres always people arriving here for work, or as students.
IF a landlord puts in 2 or 3 bathrooms into a house ,he,ll have to raise the rent ,probably 100 per cent to cover the cost.
Some btl landlords may be forced to sell up,as many are behind on mortgage payments.
IF a landlord is over a certain age,its very hard to borrow 50k, even if he wants to put in new bathrooms.

wicklowwonder

Just came home this evening, living in a one bed apartment, to a letter telling me my rent was increasing by 12.5% from April... less than happy. 12.5% is a big increase, the letter says it is moving the rent in line with current market rates.

Lived here 18 months, six months out of a year long contract so not covered by a letting agreement. Not sure what to do, the girlfriend is keen to stay as its a nice gaff, I wouldn't mind moving as I feel for an 15%-20% increase we could a nice two bed.

kennyb3

Higher costs naturally hit our competitiveness, I personally don't see this as a good thing.

StillWaters

kennyb3 wrote: »

Higher costs naturally hit our competitiveness, I personally don't see this as a good thing.

Noone sees rents rising above the rate of inflation as a good thing. The problem is caused by a lack of supply, and that wont be eased until there is greater credit supply and I cant see that happening for a few years. In fact as riclad stated, supply is likely to be squeezed even more. I can see a clear rent bubble forming.

Victor

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Just came home this evening, living in a one bed apartment, to a letter telling me my rent was increasing by 12.5% from April... less than happy. 12.5% is a big increase,

Shop around. Negotiate.

the letter says it is moving the rent in line with current market rates.

That is the landlord's assertion, but is it true?

I don't see a fundamental problem. While the population is increasing, any surplus of births over deaths is tempered by emigration. Nationwide, there is probably demand for 10,000-20,000 new properties per year, with about 8,000 being built per year and 250,000 vacant properties (includes holiday properties) in the 2011 census.

riclad wrote: »

IF a landlord puts in 2 or 3 bathrooms into a house ,he,ll have to raise the rent ,probably 100 per cent to cover the cost.

Hardly. Let us say a set of sanitary ware (WC, wash basin, bath/shower) costs €1,000 and a basic kitchenette a similar figure (including cooker). It might take a carpenter, a plumber and a tiler / painter each one week's work to complete the installation.

Item Quantity Rate Amount
Bathroom 3 €1,000 €3,000
Kitchens 3 €1,000 €3,000
Carpenter 1 €800 €800
Plumber 1 €800 €800
Tiler / painter 1 €800 €800
Miscellaneous materials 1 €1,000 €1,000
Total . €9,400

The investment can easily be made back within a year.

Given that there will be existing kitchens and bathrooms in a property, you won't need a new one for every unit. Indeed, the landlord will probably be able to reduce cleaning costs of communal areas.

riclad

I think the rule is each flat ,will need its own bathroom,wc, shower.This will take up space, i was living in a flat, in a house, there was 1 bathroom, shared for 5 flats.
A landlord would have to remove a few bedsits , to make space for flats,
eg the days of getting a bedsit,flat for 70 euro a week will be gone.
And this is happening at a time when rent allowance rates are being reduced.

Victor

Studio apartments will still be possible, so the loss of stock will, at most, be slight. A bathroom can be as small as 4m2.

Zamboni

Kosseegan wrote: »

People who predicted rising rents on this forum less than a year ago were abused. No doubt the same will happen this time.

That is because it was and is a ridiculous proposition.
But we live in the ridiculous - where the excess supply is simply ring-fenced from the market to artificially prop up rental prices.
There are a quarter of a million vacant properties in Ireland. They are not all outside of Dublin.

Ray Palmer

Zamboni wrote: »

That is because it was and is a ridiculous proposition.
But we live in the ridiculous - where the excess supply is simply ring-fenced from the market to artificially prop up rental prices.
There are a quarter of a million vacant properties in Ireland. They are not all outside of Dublin.

Whether you think it is ridiculous or not means nough. Rents have gone up and you were simply wrong. People pointed out NAMA wouldn't act recklessly and they didn't nor will they. They also will not have the impact in Dublin you think as it is still a relatively small amout and no guarentee they go into the rental market.
You didn't take in all factors and refused to accept them. You have been proven wrong. No point saying how it should be as we live in the real world.

Zamboni

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Whether you think it is ridiculous or not means nough.

I completely agree. It is what it is.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Rents have gone up and you were simply wrong.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You didn't take in all factors and refused to accept them. You have been proven wrong.

Did I categorically state somewhere on this board that rent would not go up?
The old memory is getting bad but I'd be delighted to see this post.
Cheers

gaius c

kennyb3 wrote: »

Higher costs naturally hit our competitiveness, I personally don't see this as a good thing.

Amen. The cost of shelter is such a basic necessity that it will impact on wage expectations, which is something that we need to revise down in this country if we want to see any sort of recovery.
You can see high commercial rents killing the retail sector, with it being a key reason HMV couldn't find a buyer for it's Irish stores.

Also, Dublin rents are way out of whack with European cities of comparable size. Too many people make the mistake of comparing Dublin to London or Munich and thinking "ah sure, we're quite cheap really".

Kosseegan

Victor wrote: »

Studio apartments will still be possible, so the loss of stock will, at most, be slight. A bathroom can be as small as 4m2.

Some bedsits are as small as 10m2. It has to be separated from the kitchen by a ventilated lobby area. No way will a bathroom, lobby, a four plate cooker and adequate food storage area fit in 10m2. Once one bedsit goes the whole house goes.

Ray Palmer

Kosseegan wrote: »

Some bedsits are as small as 10m2. It has to be separated from the kitchen by a ventilated lobby area. No way will a bathroom, lobby, a four plate cooker and adequate food storage area fit in 10m2. Once one bedsit goes the whole house goes.

Vented lobby is no longer a requirement. Some bedsits are too small to be converted all the same.

Kosseegan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Vented lobby is no longer a requirement. Some bedsits are too small to be converted all the same.

6. (1) There shall be provided within the habitable area of the house, for the exclusive use of the house:

(a) A watercloset, with dedicated wash hand basin adjacent thereto with a continuous supply of cold water and a facility for the piped supply of hot water, and

(b) A fixed bath or shower with continuous supply of cold water and a facility for the piped supply of hot water.

(2) The requirements of sub-article (1) shall:

(i) be maintained in good working order,

(ii) have safe and effective means of drainage,

(iii) be properly insulated and secured,

(iv) have minimum capacity requirements for hot and cold water storage facilities, and

(v) be provided in a room separated from other rooms by a wall and a door and containing separate ventilation.




There has been no amendment.

StillWaters

Kosseegan wrote: »

(v) be provided in a room separated from other rooms by a wall and a door and containing separate ventilation.



There has been no amendment.

That doesn't specify a ventilated lobby. That is just looking for a wall and a door, not some sort of curtain arrangement.

There hasn't needed to be a ventilated lobby between bathroom and kitchen in a few years.

Kosseegan

StillWaters wrote: »

That doesn't specify a ventilated lobby. That is just looking for a wall and a door, not some sort of curtain arrangement.

There hasn't needed to be a ventilated lobby between bathroom and kitchen in a few years.

The Bye Laws are gone since 1991 but the Building regulations require that the bathroom be wheelchair accessible and provided off the main circulating space and not through another room.

Ray Palmer

Kosseegan wrote: »

The Bye Laws are gone since 1991 but the Building regulations require that the bathroom be wheelchair accessible and provided off the main circulating space and not through another room.

The kitchen doesn't mean a separate room. Building regs also don't apply to many existing buildings. Not much point in a wheelchair accessible toilet on the second floor of a Georgian house that you can only get to by a stairs.
You don't need a lobby as you proved in your own post. I think you have mixed up some things together.