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Hiring a Cleaning Lady

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  • 11-02-2013 5:29pm
    #1
    annascott
    Registered Users Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭


    Hi I am hoping that someone can answer two questions related to domestic cleaning.

    1) To hire a 'cleaning lady' for domestic house cleaning a few hours per week - does this make me an employer and therefore liable for the duties associated for example: employers PRSI, maternity/sickness cover/redundancy etc or is it ok to just pay her as and when I need her?

    2) Can anyone tell me if the minimum wage (see below) applies to domestic cleaning ladies who are coming into a home for a few hours a week/month as opposed to being employed by a cleaning company.

    Experienced adult worker €8.65 per hour
    Over 19 and in 2nd year of first employment €7.79
    Over 18 and in first year of first employment €6.92
    Aged under 18 €6.06 per hour


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    #2
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    You are always liable to minimum wage laws except if the cleaner is a live in position and was provided with bed and food then the minimum wage laws don't apply, hence why so many au-pairs are exploited. That is one of only two scenarios I'm aware of where minimum wage laws can (and are) circumvented. The other is the likes of Irish Ferries using flags of convenience so they can pay their employees under minimum wage laws of other countries whilst still operating out of Irish ports.

    The best way for you to employ a cleaner is to have them as a contractor rather than an employee. Then their terms and conditions are reliant on what is stated in the contract. As a contractor they would be a self-employed entity who is contracting out their services by the job or by the hour. They are then responsible for paying their own taxes. You would still have a duty of care for them in respect of health & safety.

    In reality most cleaners who come into your home 2-3 hours a week are cash in hand jobs. I'm aware of friends cleaners who charge €12 an hour and get cash in hand and work 50+ hours a week spread across 15 houses/apartments. Revenue have yet to clamp down on this practice, no doubt they will at some stage in the future but they have bigger fish to fry right now.


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    #3
    Bigcheeze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Bigcheeze


    You needn't worry about minimum wage, the going rate for cleaners is well above it. €12-13 p/h is typical, more if you get someone through an agency.


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    #4
    12gauge dave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭12gauge dave


    Going through a cleaning agency would be the ideal and safest option but that would be more expensive.


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    #5
    Peterdalkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Peterdalkey


    at 12€ an hour into their hand, the is an imputed assumption that they are taking care of their own tax/prsi/holiday/maternity themselves. This does leave you open to being chased by revenue, however slight that risk may be.My own preference is to get them to do it once, and then give you a price to do the job as a contractor on a repeat basis and at times to be agreed for the work to be agreed between the parties. You have then not employed them but rather contracted for a specific service to be provided at a fixed price. Think of it as a painter or builder a job for you.

    cheers

    Peter


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    #6
    retenzo12
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭retenzo12


    Peterdalkey wrote: »
    at 12€ an hour into their hand, the is an imputed assumption that they are taking care of their own tax/prsi/holiday/maternity themselves. This does leave you open to being chased by revenue, however slight that risk may be.My own preference is to get them to do it once, and then give you a price to do the job as a contractor on a repeat basis and at times to be agreed for the work to be agreed between the parties. You have then not employed them but rather contracted for a specific service to be provided at a fixed price. Think of it as a painter or builder a job for you.

    cheers

    Peter

    You cannot hire anyone on a labour only contract anymore. They must supply at least some of the materials.

    Something to watch out for!


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    #7
    Glenalla
    Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭Glenalla


    retenzo12 wrote: »
    You cannot hire anyone on a labour only contract anymore. They must supply at least some of the materials.

    Something to watch out for!

    What happens if the person doing the work is doing so on an advisory basis such as overseeing a job, they are not providing any materials?


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    #8
    retenzo12
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭retenzo12


    Glenalla wrote: »
    What happens if the person doing the work is doing so on an advisory basis such as overseeing a job, they are not providing any materials?

    I should have been clearer. If your a construction company under RCT rules you cannot hire labour only. The sub contractor must supply materials.


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    #9
    annascott
    Registered Users Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭annascott


    I didn't know that this would be so complicated. What if I drew up a contract containing the agreed price and stating that the contractor was liable/responsible for her own tax affairs. Would this exempt me from responsibility? I just want someone to do my housework for me :rolleyes:


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    #10
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    annascott wrote: »
    I didn't know that this would be so complicated. What if I drew up a contract containing the agreed price and stating that the contractor was liable/responsible for her own tax affairs. Would this exempt me from responsibility? I just want someone to do my housework for me :rolleyes:

    That should be fine. In all likelihood, there won't be any issues, with, or without a contract. I've yet to hear of someone getting into trouble over their cleaner getting a few euro into the hand for an hour or two of work.


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    #11
    DubTony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭DubTony


    If you're not a registered employer, there is no issue with paying somebody without declaration. It's up to the earner to delare their taxes, not the hirer.
    If you hire a painter, carpenter or washing machine repair man to do a job you don't have to tell anyone. Hire a cleaner on the same basis and there's nothing to be concerned about.


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    #12
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    DubTony wrote: »
    If you're not a registered employer, there is no issue with paying somebody without declaration. It's up to the earner to delare their taxes, not the hirer.
    If you hire a painter, carpenter or washing machine repair man to do a job you don't have to tell anyone. Hire a cleaner on the same basis and there's nothing to be concerned about.

    I see where you're coming from, but it's not the same as hiring a painter, carpenter etc. These people are generally registered trades people and are self employed. The majority of cleaners are not, which puts a greater emphasis on the person paying for the work to declare themselves as an employer, especially because this would be on an ongoing basis. Most other trades would be performed here and there, not daily, or weekly for a period of time. It's also worth noting that the person with the most control is seen as the person responsible for paying taxes. I can't recall where this is written, but I know it to be the case. Every industry is different, but it's pretty clear in the eyes of revenue that if you have someone cleaning your property on a timed and regular basis, then you are the one in control. However, as said above, revenue have bigger fish to fry and a contract will certainly be helpful, but is not an automatic immunity if revenue decide to look into it.


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    #13
    Deep Thought
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭Deep Thought


    goz83 wrote: »
    I see where you're coming from, but it's not the same as hiring a painter, carpenter etc. These people are generally registered trades people and are self employed. The majority of cleaners are not, which puts a greater emphasis on the person paying for the work to declare themselves as an employer, especially because this would be on an ongoing basis. Most other trades would be performed here and there, not daily, or weekly for a period of time. It's also worth noting that the person with the most control is seen as the person responsible for paying taxes. I can't recall where this is written, but I know it to be the case. Every industry is different, but it's pretty clear in the eyes of revenue that if you have someone cleaning your property on a timed and regular basis, then you are the one in control. However, as said above, revenue have bigger fish to fry and a contract will certainly be helpful, but is not an automatic immunity if revenue decide to look into it.

    gotta agree with Dubtony...if you pay someone in cash to do a job, it is their - not your responsibility to ensure tax etc is paid.

    The narrower a man’s mind, the broader his statements.



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    #14
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Deep Thought wrote: »
    gotta agree with Dubtony...if you pay someone in cash to do a job, it is their - not your responsibility to ensure tax etc is paid.

    Unfortunately Revenue may disagree and they always have the final word. :mad:


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    #15
    DubTony
    Registered Users Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭DubTony


    Window Cleaners? Gardeners? Mobile car valeters? All of these could do regular work for people, and all are responsible for their own tax. The OP is considering hiring a cleaner for "a few hours a week" so I think we can assume its a day or two each week for less than half a day each time. So ... the same as a babysitter. Now, who's registering as an employer to pay PRSI and benefits for a babysitter?


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