Celtic v Juventus 7.45 TV3

j8wk2feszrnpao

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Perhaps you haven't been following football for very long then.

Only 30yrs.

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

A team assembled with ten times the money as their opponent should not have to resort to cheating.

I've seen SPL matches with Celtic players pulling jerseys, claiming throw-ins that clearly came off them, pushing/shoving, diving; all against teams that have 1/10th the budget of Celtic.

Teams shouldn't have to resort to cheating, but they all do. I've been watching football for long enough to know that.

BhoscaCapall

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I've seen SPL matches with Celtic players pulling jerseys, claiming throw-ins that clearly came off them, pushing/shoving, diving; all against teams that have 1/10th the budget of Celtic.

Not to the same extent you haven't. That's the point here.

roanoke

But why win just 3-1 or 3-2 without gamesmanship when you can win 3-0 *with* gamesmanship and take a night off for the second leg ? Especially if the main downside is apparently just punters making negative comments about your play.

I find this notion of not cheating because the opponent is weak an interesting one. Out of interest is it ok for Juve to cheat when they're playing someone better than them and actually need gamesmanship to get a result?

j8wk2feszrnpao

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Not to the same extent you haven't. That's the point here.

Actually I have, which negates your point.

GavRedKing

Cheating/bending the rules happens every game, you need a strong ref to enforce it as every team manipulates the rules until something is done about it.

Celtic arent the first and they wont be the last team to feel hard done by some pulling and shoving in the box, most of it happens so quickly that the ref will miss at least one of potentially many incidents in the box involving players.

Had Celtic defended better they could easily be going to Turin with 0-0 score line.

BhoscaCapall

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Actually I have, which negates your point.

lol ok, no arguing against that anyway.

I have never seen manhandling as blatant and as constant as last night. Never. Never have a seen a ref make such a big deal of it only to let it continue all game.

That is the issue. Nobody is saying this is the first time someone got shoved around a bit during a corner.

snowblind

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Two good examples of it there, yes. You'd think Brown would have been able to come up with something better after watching the Italians do it all game though.

This is the thing though. Even when your players do something wrong, you can't admit blame for them. You have to blame the other team even for your players fouling and play acting. All the dives in the box? Sure Italians started it in the 60s. This thing takes on quasi-xenophobic flavours. Ah sure enough yer scottish lads wouldn't do such and such, they were just dragged onto the level of the cheating bastards. One thing the Juventini aren't now, and that is bitter. Somehow the fair scottish lads and fans can't seem to get rid of theirs.

Peppa Pig

GavRedKing wrote: »

most of it happens so quickly that the ref will miss at least one of potentially many incidents in the box involving players.

Which again begs the question as to what the hell the extra officials behind the goal are actually supposed to do.
The one behind the Celtic goal couldn't even see that, for the first goal, the ball had clearly crossed the line despite being exactly in line with it.

j8wk2feszrnpao

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

lol ok, no arguing against that anyway.

I have never seen manhandling as blatant and as constant as last night. Never. Never have a seen a ref make such a big deal of it only to let it continue all game.

That is the issue. Nobody is saying this is the first time someone got shoved around a bit during a corner.

I have seen a lot worse, and seen teams get away with it, in all leagues. The TV director focused on it last night, but that could be done at a lot of games and you'd see the same thing.

If I was the ref I would have given a penalty last night.
Actually, the line official was in front of it all night; but as usual they don't seem to do that much.

It'll prob require a FIFA directive for refs to have the balls to give them on a more regular basis.

We prob all remember Quinns penalty in '02 against Spain in the WC when Heirro wanted his jersey a bit early.
The pulling/dragging had occurred a good few times in that match, but it wasn't until the jersey was almost over Quinn's head that the ref gave a penalty.
This isn't something new, and unfortunately won't be going away anytime soon.

mitosis

I think the extra officials are not allowed to offer an opinion - they have to be asked, so if the ref is in no doubt they have no input.

PauloMN

GavRedKing wrote: »

most of it happens so quickly that the ref will miss at least one of potentially many incidents in the box involving players.

Agreed, as opposed to repeatedly and right in front of the ref like the incidents last night, which the ref did notice.

Peppa Pig

mitosis wrote: »

I think the extra officials are not allowed to offer an opinion - they have to be asked, so if the ref is in no doubt they have no input.

Has anybody ever seen a referee even speak to one of these?

BhoscaCapall

Out of interest, why were there so many comments from so many neutrals about the behaviour of the Juve players & referee last night? If this goes on in every match then why did these people find it so remarkable? A lot of them were English football fans btw, who are not exactly known for lauding us or jumping to our defence.

mitosis

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Out of interest, why were there so many comments from so many neutrals about the behaviour of the Juve players & referee last night? If this goes on in every match then why did these people find it so remarkable? A lot of them were English football fans btw, who are not exactly known for lauding us or jumping to our defence.

They're not neutrals, they're Man U and similar fans whose interest is in the softest opponent for the next round, and for some there is a Juventus Bogeyman fear. And then there's the xenophobes........

GavRedKing

PauloMN wrote: »

Agreed, as opposed to repeatedly and right in front of the ref like the incidents last night, which the ref did notice.

True, which is why I said it takes a strong ref to give the penalties.

That ref seemed happy to stop the corners/free coming in and book a player.

What he should ahve done after the first warning was to leave the next set pieces come in and if it continued give penalties, you then cant say it wasnt coming or you werent warned about it.

He was strong to a point, issuing cards and warnings but he didnt call up potential penalties after talking to the players.

The problem is most refs seem to let it go and wont even give bookings, I've probably only seen a handful of penalties given for incidents invovling dragging, pushing in the box, ref's rarely give them as most of the times its both players at it, one dragging the other pulling.

BhoscaCapall

mitosis wrote: »

They're not neutrals, they're Man U and similar fans whose interest is in the softest opponent for the next round, and for some there is a Juventus Bogeyman fear. And then there's the xenophobes........

What about several pro footballers with no Celtic connection?

Aye that must be it, they're all racist! :pac:

Honestly.

mitosis

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

What about several pro footballers with no Celtic connection?

Aye that must be it, they're all racist! :pac:

Honestly.

Not racist, xenophobic.

BhoscaCapall

mitosis wrote: »

Not racist, xenophobic.

mitosis

GavRedKing wrote: »

True, which is why I said it takes a strong ref to give the penalties.

That ref seemed happy to stop the corners/free coming in and book a player.

What he should ahve done after the first warning was to leave the next set pieces come in and if it continued give penalties, you then cant say it wasnt coming or you werent warned about it.

He was strong to a point, issuing cards and warnings but he didnt call up potential penalties after talking to the players.

The problem is most refs seem to let it go and wont even give bookings, I've probably only seen a handful of penalties given for incidents invovling dragging, pushing in the box, ref's rarely give them as most of the times its both players at it, one dragging the other pulling.

I think there was no legitimate penalty claim. If the ball is not in play? But I do think if Lichsteiner was booked for an offence and repeated it,and he was, he should have been sent off.

As should the Celtic player have been.

And that may be why the referee didn't book them again.

BhoscaCapall

mitosis wrote: »

I think there was no legitimate penalty claim.

The referee says there was.

If the ball is not in play?

The manhandling continued after the corners were taken, that is essentially what the issue is here. Hooper was pushed into the net and pinned in there until our first corner was cleared.

mitosis

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

The referee says there was.



.

He did? So did he say why he didn't award it?

GavRedKing

mitosis wrote: »

I think there was no legitimate penalty claim. If the ball is not in play? But I do think if Lichsteiner was booked for an offence and repeated it,and he was, he should have been sent off.

As should the Celtic player have been.

And that may be why the referee didn't book them again.

Sometimes a ref can lose control too, its ahrd to jsutify sending a guy for blocking and pushing when you've booked him previously for it, but thats the problem, if you deem it worthy of a yellow earlier then why isnt a yellow when he keeps it up and thats where the upset is aimed at.

IMO the ref left himself open to a lot of criticism for booking players for the goings on in the box as he didnt follow up with further bookings for very similar incidents.

I can see why people would be pi**ed off, especially as the ref showed that he was willing to take action of some sort for it.

The ref bottled it IMO but he also took out the cards to easily in the first place, again IMO.

dsmythy

All the argument about pushing and shoving what's it matter. Lose 3-0 or 3-1 because a big Celtic noggin put one in the net, who cares.

mitosis

GavRedKing wrote: »

Sometimes a ref can lose control too, its ahrd to jsutify sending a guy for blocking and pushing when you've booked him previously for it, but thats the problem, if you deem it worthy of a yellow earlier then why isnt a yellow when he keeps it up and thats where the upset is aimed at.

I agree. I think the problem is he would have had to send both off and then potentially he'd be accused of ruining the game.

Lennonist

dsmythy wrote: »

All the argument about pushing and shoving what's it matter. Lose 3-0 or 3-1 because a big Celtic noggin put one in the net, who cares.

You obviously care enough to comment on it.:rolleyes:

BhoscaCapall

mitosis wrote: »

He did? So did he say why he didn't award it?

No he didn't. That, again, is the crux of the matter here.

GavRedKing

mitosis wrote: »

I agree. I think the problem is he would have had to send both off and then potentially he'd be accused of ruining the game.

Yup, he didnt help himself there as with issuing the card and then not taking action once it continued hes left himself open to criticism.

Lennonist

mitosis wrote: »

I agree. I think the problem is he would have had to send both off and then potentially he'd be accused of ruining the game.

In the 2nd half when Brown and a Juve defender were booked, immediately after that while the corner was being taken the same Juve defender grabbed Brown in a bear hug twice. Every one could see it, including the ref who was looking straight at it. That to me was the clearest penalty decision, the ref simply bottled it. It was quite unbelievable.

There was no question that it was the defender who blatantly continued to transgress at that point. The Juve defenders had copped that the ref was weak and simply ignored his threat to them that he would follow up on the initial warning with further sanction or a penalty.

premierstone

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I've seen SPL matches with Celtic players pulling jerseys, claiming throw-ins that clearly came off them, pushing/shoving, diving; all against teams that have 1/10th the budget of Celtic.

Are you going to share these incidents with the group?

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It'll prob require a FIFA directive for refs to have the balls to give them on a more regular basis.

The directive has already been issued and ignored it would seem.

j8wk2feszrnpao

premierstone wrote: »

Are you going to share these incidents with the group?

Just re-watch the match from last night to see half those incidents.
Watch the SPL to see the rest.

Cienciano

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Perhaps you haven't been following football for very long then.

A team assembled with ten times the money as their opponent should not have to resort to cheating. Juve would have won 3-1 or 3-2 without it, and would have done the same in Turin. This thread would just be comments about how good a side they are and how they deserve to be in the quarter finals. Instead it's comments about how good a side they are, and how they are pathetic cheats to boot.

If you think money dictates the result, you must have missed what happened when Barcelona went to Glasgow.
And as for Juve cheating, the last video posted up on this thread shows a celtic player standing on a Juve's players foot, and diving in the same move! But of course, it's only the dirty italians that cheat :rolleyes:
Amazing the green and white tinted glasses can not see any wrong from any celtic player in these situations! They're always the victims.
"credit to Juve, they deserved the win, but they cheated" just contradicts itself!

BhoscaCapall

Cienciano wrote: »

If you think money dictates the result, you must have missed what happened when Barcelona went to Glasgow.
And as for Juve cheating, the last video posted up on this thread shows a celtic player standing on a Juve's players foot, and diving in the same move! But of course, it's only the dirty italians that cheat :rolleyes:
Amazing the green and white tinted glasses can not see any wrong from any celtic player in these situations! They're always the victims.

Your logic here is literally to cite one incident of a Celtic player standing on a defender's foot and use it to balance out the constant, blatant cheating at every single set piece by Juve players.

This is why I disagree when people say we should stoop to these tactics too. We are held to a different standard. Italians are expected to cheat.

"credit to Juve, they deserved the win, but they cheated" just contradicts itself!

I don't know if you're being intentionally simple here to get a rise out of people, but I will reiterate for the umpteenth time here in very basic English for you.

Juventus are a better team than Celtic, they scored 3 fair goals and deserve to be in the next round. They also disgraced themselves by cheating all game against a side they would have been able to beat anyway.

I can't make it any easier for you to understand so if you continue to repeat yourself I can only assume you are being silly for the sake of it, and there will be no further discussion.

snowblind

If Celtic had scored from their blatant obstructing and shoving in the Juve box, Juve fans would have similar claims as you do. Get over it.

Lesson learned: do not try to obstruct Buffon. We'll see next time how you manage to deal with Chiellini. In Juve Arena. Oh how I wait and see Hooper's, Common's etc faces after that one!

BhoscaCapall

A very apt username there young man :pac:

Mr.Micro

Lennonist wrote: »

In the 2nd half when Brown and a Juve defender were booked, immediately after that while the corner was being taken the same Juve defender grabbed Brown in a bear hug twice. Every one could see it, including the ref who was looking straight at it. That to me was the clearest penalty decision, the ref simply bottled it. It was quite unbelievable.

There was no question that it was the defender who blatantly continued to transgress at that point. The Juve defenders had copped that the ref was weak and simply ignored his threat to them that he would follow up on the initial warning with further sanction or a penalty.

To be fair the manhandling was a bit over the top, but it goes on in all the leagues. Celtic appeared overawed IMO, and Juventus looked like they had more gears to go through if needed. I am not sure the actual manhandling had any impact overall on the game, and the manhandling appeared to be going on before the ball was in play each time, so a penalty cannot be given when the ball is not in play afaik.

BhoscaCapall

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I am not sure the actual manhandling had any impact overall on the game

It nullified Celtic's main, and pretty much only attacking threat.

and the manhandling appeared to be going on before the ball was in play each time, so a penalty cannot be given when the ball is not in play afaik.

Not true.

snowblind

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

A very apt username there young man :pac:

Cheap. Suitable for you and your team though, grabbing every little irrelevant thing when you don't get what you want :rolleyes:

mitosis

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

It nullified Celtic's main, and pretty much only attacking threat.


Not true.

Actually he is correct. The ball must be in play for a penalty to be awarded

BhoscaCapall

snowblind wrote: »

Cheap. Suitable for you and your team though, grabbing every little irrelevant thing when you don't get what you want :rolleyes:

Surprised you'd want to bring up the subject of grabbing

BhoscaCapall

mitosis wrote: »

Actually he is correct. The ball must be in play for a penalty to be awarded

Of course, that is not what I meant was incorrect.

snowblind

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Surprised you'd want to bring up the subject of grabbing

Loser tactics, resorting to namecalling and all that. Have it your way. Enjoy the match in Turin!

Cienciano

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Your logic here is literally to cite one incident of a Celtic player standing on a defender's foot and use it to balance out the constant, blatant cheating at every single set piece by Juve players.

This is why I disagree when people say we should stoop to these tactics too. We are held to a different standard. Italians are expected to cheat.

That's the thing, all the "cheating" at set pieces started with a Celtic player fouling first. That GIF was a good example. Yesterday it was a rugby tackle followed by a disgraceful dive by Lichtestiner. Now we can see it for what it was, cheating with the stamp followed by simulation Celtic. The denial that celtic don't cheat and the Italians do is hilarious!
It's the same with any of the other "fouls". Starts with hooper pressing into his man, when he's pressed back it's called a foul.
The technical term according to Fifa's laws of the game is "6 of one, half a dozen of the other". To be blind of one sides involvement just shows blindness, biased towards a team, ignorance of the rules, denial, bitterness about defeat and a whinger attitude.
Anyway, this thread is going around in circles, i can't help if certain people won't open their eyes and it's obviously they won't change their opinion!

BhoscaCapall

snowblind wrote: »

Loser tactics, resorting to namecalling and all that. Have it your way. Enjoy the match in Turin!

I haven't called you any names.

One might say lying about the opponent in a debate are "loser tactics" though.

snowblind

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I haven't called you any names.

One might say lying about the opponent in a debate are "loser tactics" though.

Well you saying my username is "apt" is definitely calling me blind, no? Don't act innocent. You went for the cheap shots, just like Celtic and the fans here.

Your bitterness will reach a climax in Italy. Enjoy with some nice Italian red wine!

PauloMN

snowblind wrote: »

You went for the cheap shots, just like Celtic and the fans here.

Get over yerself, you're as bad as the other clowns who were posting here last night with your sweeping generalisations.

Coillte_Bhoy

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Sorry I said very little until after the game about the Ref
But for me.
1. Hooper znd the Juventus player were both at it with the same intention to get each other into bother. In the second half it was turns each from Celtic players to have a go at corners with the same Juvw player
I then after the first half didn't comment till after thd game when I said that the grappling in the box had been going on all night but I have watched plenty of EPL Italian and Spamish football where ghost is happening all the time.
Now it would have made no difference because as soon as EB disagreed with what certain tic fans were saying he was shouted down why because he was a bear now that I find pathetic It's now came to it we can't give an opposiling viewpoint but it has to be because we are Rangets fans. Yet other people were saying similar things but not a word said
As for you watching it with mates I watched if with one of mine who is a tic fan. He was upset but in the Hooper case he reckoned both were at it but we agreed the wrestling in the box in the second half was out of order but again an old trait in Italian and Spanish football and guess what a Spanish ref
To be fair I don't think EB thanked me I know I thanked him. And to be honest I don't think it has anything to do with you how I use my thank button

Fair enough. Over reaction on my part re the thanks issue and childish of me to say the least.:o

So EB was shouted down cos hes a rangers fan?? Maybe it was the substance of what he had to say??

BhoscaCapall

Apparently saying someone must be blind as a response to baffling observations and interpretation of clear incidents is name calling and cheap.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Fair enough. Over reaction on my part re the thanks issue and childish of me to say the least.:o

So EB was shouted down cos hes a rangers fan?? Maybe it was the substance of what he had to say??

Honestly I don;t think so as others were saying much the same but IMO and thats all it is certain posters made a bee line for him so to speak and one poster even thought we were on drugs because of views

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Fair enough. Over reaction on my part re the thanks issue and childish of me to say the least.:o

So EB was shouted down cos hes a rangers fan?? Maybe it was the substance of what he had to say??

Listen I appreciate how easy it is to get worked up no big deal at the end of the day we have all done it

PauloMN

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

one poster even thought we were on drugs because of views

Are you serious? Lol, it's an expression ffs!!!!! :eek: