Electric Ireland Low User Standing Charge

stressed out

Hi everyone

I would just like to warn people of this. I just got my bill with a pretty hefty charge on it, despite me barely using any electricity over the past 5 weeks or so.

Money has been very tight so after Christmas I stayed for a few weeks with my parents to get back on my feet. Thinking that I would have saved a bit of money on my ESB, only to be faced with a bill that was equal to what I would have paid if I had been in the house.

I am really upset by this. They think they are getting people with holiday homes, when they are just like the government and targeting vulnerable people yet again. Well they are the government, what am I saying.

sandin

So you want to be able to turn on the electricity the moment you decide to return and for tgat electricity to keep the fridge running etc? Well then yoh have to pay. The same way you pay for a car even if you are not driving it, or a live phone line or a gym membership.

You can get it switched off and when you need it again pay a reconnection fee.

But other than that, that's life, not a rip off.

ejmaztec

sandin wrote: »

So you want to be able to turn on the electricity the moment you decide to return and for tgat electricity to keep the fridge running etc? Well then yoh have to pay. The same way you pay for a car even if you are not driving it, or a live phone line or a gym membership.

You can get it switched off and when you need it again pay a reconnection fee.

But other than that, that's life, not a rip off.

The Low User Standing charge can't be equated with these examples. If for example, the gym decided that you weren't using the facilities enough, and penalised you by charging you a fee in addition to the usual membership fee, then it would be the same kind of thing.

Electric Ireland want people to use lots and lots of electricity, with the meters spinning round at 50k RPM, and if you don't comply you get penalised. The LU charge must be a nice little earner for them from people like students etc all around the country.

https://www.electricireland.ie/ei/residential/price-plans/low-user-standing-charge.jsp#ex-q3

I say "rip-off".

rubadub

I don't see this as a ripoff, you just have to work out what is best for you. If you are a low user then your standing fee is simply higher.

ejmaztec wrote: »

If for example, the gym decided that you weren't using the facilities enough, and penalised you by charging you a fee in addition to the usual membership fee, then it would be the same kind of thing.

I don't see this as the same, as the gym is not charging for rate of usage as well as yearly membership.

A better analogy would be if you had a gym which charged €100 per year and €5 for each time you go in, they probably estimate you will be in a certain amount during the year and so make profits on all these €5 fees. If you never go at all the €100 might not cover keeping you on the books, so they might charge more for not turning up. They could simply charge everybody much higher standing fees to begin with (gym or electric ireland), and then give discounts for high usage, each marketing man will have their own trick, its like the pizza places with "free delivery" and a "walk in discount". They also cannot go selling more memberships incase you do begin to turn up and they have an overcrowded gym. If nobody ever turned up to the gym they still have to pay staff & heat the place etc, and the combined €100 fees might not cover it.

From that link

Why is this increased charge being introduced?
The charge is being introduced to enable Electric Ireland recover the costs associated with providing electricity to customers with very low consumption. These costs include a combination of the fixed charges associated with meter reading, network maintenance and a share of the supply costs incurred in servicing electricity accounts and are normally recovered through a combination of electricity units and standing charges. However, in situations where there is very low electricity usage as in the case of a vacant premises, these costs are not recovered fully. This charge will allow Electric Ireland to recover its costs in such circumstances.

ejmaztec

rubadub wrote: »

I don't see this as a ripoff, you just have to work out what is best for you. If you are a low user then your standing fee is simply higher.

I don't see this as the same, as the gym is not charging for rate of usage as well as yearly membership.

A better analogy would be if you had a gym which charged €100 per year and €5 for each time you go in, they probably estimate you will be in a certain amount during the year and so make profits on all these €5 fees. If you never go at all the €100 might not cover keeping you on the books, so they might charge more for not turning up. They could simply charge everybody much higher standing fees to begin with (gym or electric ireland), and then give discounts for high usage, each marketing man will have their own trick, its like the pizza places with "free delivery" and a "walk in discount". They also cannot go selling more memberships incase you do begin to turn up and they have an overcrowded gym. If nobody ever turned up to the gym they still have to pay staff & heat the place etc, and the combined €100 fees might not cover it.

From that link

I think my analogy is more like it.:P

I have a "tongue in cheek" moment when I see organisations like Electric Ireland coming up with reasons for increasing customer charges. I think that anything they've been doing since the name change has been purely to bump up the value for the big day when people flock in their thousands to buy shares in it.

rubadub

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think my analogy is more like it.:P

If the electricity company charged only a standing fee and gave free electricity then your gym analogy would hold, but they don't.

The explanation they give which I quoted makes perfect sense to me, do you think it makes sense? The equivalent explanation of your "analogy gym" trying to charge more for not going would be laughable, I would like to see you try and write one.

GiftGrub100

stressed out wrote: »

Hi everyone

I would just like to warn people of this. I just got my bill with a pretty hefty charge on it, despite me barely using any electricity over the past 5 weeks or so.

Money has been very tight so after Christmas I stayed for a few weeks with my parents to get back on my feet. Thinking that I would have saved a bit of money on my ESB, only to be faced with a bill that was equal to what I would have paid if I had been in the house.

I am really upset by this. They think they are getting people with holiday homes, when they are just like the government and targeting vulnerable people yet again. Well they are the government, what am I saying.

Was the bill estimated or based on an actual meter reading ?

moceri

How else can they pay for the €800K pensions?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/exesb-chief-padraig-mcmanus-gets-800000-package-26815729.html

ejmaztec

rubadub wrote: »

If the electricity company charged only a standing fee and gave free electricity then your gym analogy would hold, but they don't.

The explanation they give which I quoted makes perfect sense to me, do you think it makes sense? The equivalent explanation of your "analogy gym" trying to charge more for not going would be laughable, I would like to see you try and write one.

As I only mentioned the standing charge, and made no mention of electricity usage, the analogy still works for me.

I've already explained to you what I think of Electric Ireland's excuse for imposing the extra charge.

rubadub

ejmaztec wrote: »

the analogy still works for me.

Doesn't work for me.

As I said

rubadub wrote: »

The equivalent explanation of your "analogy gym" trying to charge more for not going would be laughable, I would like to see you try and write one.

It seems to be just marketing semantics annoying people, if the "the Low User Standing charge" in this case was simply called the "user standing charge" then there would have been no post about it. The company could have easily done this and just given "high usage discounts" to high usage customers. With no difference in total bills to anybody, high or low users.

These semantics do seem to upset people, like I saw people saying the were boycotting play.com when they started openly charging for postage, instead of calling it "free" (when it was obviously built into the price). Some people will cut their nose off to spite their face over semantics, and end up paying more. Personally I just work it out and don't worry about marketing stuff.

Justice for the individual

Electric Ireland are "advising its customers how to save money by conserving electricity". Meanwhile, they are billing out a Standing Charge Low Usage & PSO levy on top of the meter usage charges to customers. Where is the logic in this?
I have a small warehouse which I am trying to rent out. To cut down on the electricity charges and to cut down on the usage from the national grid, I disconnected the fridge and the only thing running on the electricity is the alarm system.

My usage bill amounted to: Euro 7.05
Standing Charge Low usage: 60.64 !!!!
PSO levy: 14.28 !!
Vat: 11.07 !!!! (on the total)!!!
Total: 93.07 !!!!!!!!

So the actual bill should be: Euro 7.05 + Vat.
& I do not accept that the PSO levy should be charged in the present poor economic climate. Therefore the actual cost should only be Euro 8.00 instead of Euro 93.07, a difference of Euro 85.07, a rip-off surely, & by a state utility.
Electric Ireland can make all the excuses/reasons they like, but nothing can
justify this excessive charge.

I am protesting to the Irish government for allowing this to happen, as it is unfair on the small usage consumers. Where are all the consumer organisations?.

The contradiction here is that Electric Ireland are asking consumers to conserve energy on one hand and on the other, penalizing customers for not using enough!!

I checked with Bord Gais & Airtricity and they are even dearer (low-usage probably contributes to this) so advising people to shop around is useless (they should check this out first) as there is no competition. Have we still got an Energy Regulator (the last one was responsible for putting up prices) The reason: to encourage competition from other service providers!. Senseless. The energy supply market in Ireland is a complete monopoly. Evidence? Bord Gais and Electricity Ireland competing against each other - two state agencies!!

Electric Ireland and the Irish government, sort out this mess!

Justice for the individual

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think my analogy is more like it.:P

I have a "tongue in cheek" moment when I see organisations like Electric Ireland coming up with reasons for increasing customer charges. I think that anything they've been doing since the name change has been purely to bump up the value for the big day when people flock in their thousands to buy shares in it.

Electricity is an essential commodity while gym membership is not, and you have other gym's competing for business. There is no genuine competition in the electricity supply segment. Also, to get the electricity supply turned off will incur
prohibitive fees and again to reconnect, more charges. We are being ripped off, but after 4/5 years of this already from our so-called servants, the government and our utility agencies, we have to shout stop.

rubadub

Justice for the individual wrote: »

Electric Ireland are "advising its customers how to save money by conserving electricity". Where is the logic in this?

This is simply marketing crap, they want you to use as much as possible or use an amount which gives them the most profit.

Justice for the individual wrote: »

So the actual bill should be: Euro 7.05 + Vat.

I know in my workplace €7 would not cover the admin fees involved in sending out that bill.

Justice for the individual wrote: »

The contradiction here is that Electric Ireland are asking consumers to conserve energy on one hand and on the other, penalizing customers for not using enough!!

As I said before they could simply charge extremely high standing charges, and discount high users, would you be happier with that? you would be paying the exact same amount, but you could no longer moan about being penalised for low usage charge.

Justice for the individual wrote: »

I checked with Bord Gais & Airtricity and they are even dearer (low-usage probably contributes to this) so advising people to shop around is useless (they should check this out first) as there is no competition.

So you did shop around, and found electric ireland is already the cheapest in your case. I don't know why you would disuade others from shopping around, if they were all the same there would be no point. Regardless if you think it is genuine competition the fact remains there is a difference, and so it is worth shopping around.

Justice for the individual

As I clearly explained to you, I did shop around, and for me there is no alternative - for others there may be. Have you checked the alternatives yourself? If you have let's see the evidence. I am only pointing out my circumstances, and it is immaterial the amount of usage, the penalty for low usage is completely excessive.

wonski

Additional standing charge for residential users is less than 16c/day, so if you use less than 2 units/day your extra charge will be less than 5 Euro/month.
Hardly a hefty charge...

Justice for the individual

wonski wrote: »

Additional standing charge for residential users is less than 16c/day, so if you use less than 2 units/day your extra charge will be less than 5 Euro/month.
Hardly a hefty charge...

The charges I listed were for two months, although they appear to be for a year! And by the way, people do not moan enough!

rubadub

Justice for the individual wrote: »

As I clearly explained to you, I did shop around, and for me there is no alternative

Yes, you shopped around and found nothing cheaper, you already have the cheapest, luckily you had not been wasting money.

Justice for the individual wrote: »

for others there may be.

Exactly. This is why the quote below is bad advice

advising people to shop around is useless

Justice for the individual wrote: »

Have you checked the alternatives yourself?

Yes, I got the cheapest. Have you looked at battery powered alarms systems? I doubt they use much energy.

Justice for the individual wrote: »

it is immaterial the amount of usage, the penalty for low usage is completely excessive.

The usage is not immaterial, they have factored in typical usage and you are nowhere near it. So your €7 is probably nowhere near enough for admin costs. If this was not called a penalty I wounder if you would be complaining as much.

Some chippers might do "free delivery", I don't expect to get a sachet of ketchup delivered for 20cent, some might have delivery of €2, I still don't expect 1 ketchup delivered for €2.20

Justice for the individual

rubadub wrote: »

Yes, you shopped around and found nothing cheaper, you already have the cheapest, luckily you had not been wasting money.

Exactly. This is why the quote below is bad advice


Yes, I got the cheapest. Have you looked at battery powered alarms systems? I doubt they use much energy.

The usage is not immaterial, they have factored in typical usage and you are nowhere near it. So your €7 is probably nowhere near enough for admin costs. If this was not called a penalty I wounder if you would be complaining as much.

Some chippers might do "free delivery", I don't expect to get a sachet of ketchup delivered for 20cent, some might have delivery of €2, I still don't expect 1 ketchup delivered for €2.20

The next time I stand at a bus stop (the driver has not seen me for a year) - will he charge me Euro 50, and say that's because of low usage?

rubadub

Justice for the individual wrote: »

The next time I stand at a bus stop (the driver has not seen me for a year) - will he charge me Euro 50, and say that's because of low usage?

it would be €1,120 if you signed up for the annual ticket that 1 year ago, regardless of your usage.

If you are just paying for 1 ticket then you are paying more than the average customer is. So yes, you are paying more because of your low usage. No real difference as I already explained, they can call it a low use charge or high use discount.

I rarely use the bus so get a book of 10 tickets which must be used in the year. This is €25, while normal fare is €2.80. So you could consider the 30cent to be the low usage charge.

Dublin bus also prefer you use prepaid tickets, and so discount them accordingly as they are saving on admin costs. The admin costs are built into the cash fares, just like you have standing fees in many places.

If dublin bus kept your record on file, sent out monthly or bimonthly bills, had lads coming to your house to check your bus tickets for indicated usage etc, then I would expect the low usage surcharge to be a lot more. More than the €50 you suggested.

countrynosebag

I am feeling less and less patriotic nowadays ie trying so hard to support Irish companies and Irish products. Am getting fed up as they do not support us.
It is more than time for outside competition in fields such as insurance, telephone/broadband or whatever, bus/train, electric and gas etc. There is no doubt that it has allowed lower prices, better and wider choices within food, clothng, electrical items and the like. It then gives such an opportunity to spend elsewhere or even save - we are trying to put a little away for grandchildrens' visits - we do try to pay meals out, petrol for trips as they pay so much to fly or ferry over. It does get spent here you see but just allows a few possibilities - needs must.
The electric has rocketed despite less usage and trying to wear warmer clothing, use hot water bottles etc. We know costs and salaries have to be met but sometimes I do think that maximum charges should apply as well as the minimums.

countrynosebag

Acyually good value idea I would appreciate!

Justice for the individual

countrynosebag wrote: »

I am feeling less and less patriotic nowadays ie trying so hard to support Irish companies and Irish products. Am getting fed up as they do not support us.
It is more than time for outside competition in fields such as insurance, telephone/broadband or whatever, bus/train, electric and gas etc. There is no doubt that it has allowed lower prices, better and wider choices within food, clothng, electrical items and the like. It then gives such an opportunity to spend elsewhere or even save - we are trying to put a little away for grandchildrens' visits - we do try to pay meals out, petrol for trips as they pay so much to fly or ferry over. It does get spent here you see but just allows a few possibilities - needs must.
The electric has rocketed despite less usage and trying to wear warmer clothing, use hot water bottles etc. We know costs and salaries have to be met but sometimes I do think that maximum charges should apply as well as the minimums.

The high cost of electricity & gas is the last great bastion and is yet untouched by the TROIKA. Increases in price & items like Low Energy Usage Charges & PSO levy stuck on without any thought for the consumer appear opportunistic and are approved by the Energy Regulator without question. Electric Ireland is a private and state agency partnership. It is 85% owned by the Irish government, i.e. the taxpayer.

Low income people in dire circumstances cannot afford to heat their homes because of the high cost of energy supplies, in particular, electricity and gas. If they use too much they cannot afford it and if they use too little, they are hit with a Low Usage Charge.

At the moment TROIKA are looking at ways of forcing the HSE and Pharmaceutical companies to open up on the pricing arrangements & costings to the HSE, chemists and the general public. Just to remind people, generic drugs are now coming through for the branded pharmaceutical products but the HSE/Government are still paying 80% of the cost of the original product - why?

Energy prices should also be investigated by TROIKA, as to say the least, competition in the energy market is limp, and vested interests are aggressively guarding their patch. Apart from the ordinary consumer, the electricity charge is a major expense for the multinational operator.

countrynosebag

the prices set withe the pharmaceutical were agreed with the doctors, the government and the companies I believe and have been gradually changed to generics for some while now
there does seem to be disagreement with the efficacy of some of the generics, for instance, many asthma inhalers seem to have caused problems simply by not being as effective/powerful and so more is taken
it does seem that patents are gradually running out on some drugs too
also it is about the actual ingredients not the actual name the company adds on simply to denote ownership/brand
I have been told that the government is doing away with the licence fee and applying a broadcast fee - bet you it is more too, all to be charged regardless of actually receiving service, having tv apparently because we can have it via computer
has anyone tried it, i have = useless I barely manage news Mon-Fri (and I have tv licence) and I am sick of taking it up with rte - very pleasant and helpful, nothing works
no saorview here (money allocated strictly in this house) I think proposed charge disgusting - only those with this service, and working should have to pay and, what is wrong with licence - will welfare recipients suffer ie pay now ?